Maybe he had made his way to London somehow (with a relative, or had hitched a lift with a friendly Warwick carter) and was picked up as a vagrant there, though I remember seeing in one of the censuses children from all over the country in an institution in East London. In Warwick the authorities would have known his mother was still alive, but if he was "taken into care" (as they say now) in London he could easily have lied that both parents were dead in order not to get sent back home. Children from the countryside, as young as him, are living on the streets of many cities today, right here in Europe, in places like Moscow or Bucharest. MAR in France. > Message du 31/05/07 15:39 > De : "Graham Stanley" > A : WARWICK@rootsweb.com > Copie à : > Objet : [WAR] Records of young offenders > > Dear List > Thanks to Ancestry, I discovered from the 1861 census that my errant great grandfather, Charles Crosby ROTHWELL, born Warwick 1851, was listed as an "orphan" in the Southwark Industrial School belonging to the parish of St George the Martyr, Southwark although the school itself was in Mitcham, Surrey. However, the 1861 census also shows that his widowed mother, Mary (his father had died in 1848) was still living in Smith Street, Warwick, along with her other surviving children: James, Sarah and Elizabeth. > I wonder why it was that he was taken away from his family in Warwick and sent so far away? Were there no industrial schools nearer? > The admission and discharge records for Mitcham School are held at the London Metropolitan Archives (LMA) but I couldn't find an entry for him amongst them. The records are incomplete and there is a gap for the period from July 1860 to September 1862 and he may well have fallen down it. > >From a description in the LMA's list to the Surrey Quarter Sessions records, I found the following useful description: > REFORMATORIES AND INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS > A similar system of state certification of industrial schools, which provided industrial training to young offenders, was established by the Industrial Schools Act 1857 (20 & 21 Vic, cap.48). The Act empowered magistrates to send vagrant children to such certified schools. This power was extended by the Act of 1861 (24 & 25 Vic, cap.113) to children under 14 brought before a magistrate for begging, vagrancy, destitution, frequenting the company of thieves, or for being refractory and out of the control of their parents, and to children under 12 charged with a punishable offence but for whom training in a industrial school was a more appropriate sentence. By the Industrial Schools Act of 1866 (29 & 30 Vic, cap.118) justices of the peace, as the prison authority for the County, might make grants to such schools and contracts for the reception of children of the County. > > I am also aware of Peter Higginbotham's excellent www.workhouses.org website, which gives a lot of useful background about individual industrial schools as well as workhouses. Does anyone know if I might find information about why my great grandfather was exiled to Mitcham amongst the Warwick Quarter Sessions records, or are there other local records I should check? > Best wishes > Graham > >--- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > maraix

Can't help with the Parish Records but just wanted to correct you. You are NOT living in the wrong country <grin> Ann Cairns,Australia No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.4/825 - Release Date: 30/05/2007 3:03 PM

Hi I would really appreciate it if anyone could help me out with a baptism please? Willam Henry Pritchard was born on 25 December 1889 and I believe was probably baptised at the Church of England. Bishop Ryder's Church, Birmingham. Any help would be most appreciated as I am lost on how to go about looking for this. I am also living in the wrong country. Regards Jan in Australia

I have quite a bit of history on this coal mine, and most of those in the Warwickshire coalfield which I have made a study of for 30 years. Peter Lee Nuneaton

Dear List Thanks to Ancestry, I discovered from the 1861 census that my errant great grandfather, Charles Crosby ROTHWELL, born Warwick 1851, was listed as an "orphan" in the Southwark Industrial School belonging to the parish of St George the Martyr, Southwark although the school itself was in Mitcham, Surrey. However, the 1861 census also shows that his widowed mother, Mary (his father had died in 1848) was still living in Smith Street, Warwick, along with her other surviving children: James, Sarah and Elizabeth. I wonder why it was that he was taken away from his family in Warwick and sent so far away? Were there no industrial schools nearer? The admission and discharge records for Mitcham School are held at the London Metropolitan Archives (LMA) but I couldn't find an entry for him amongst them. The records are incomplete and there is a gap for the period from July 1860 to September 1862 and he may well have fallen down it. >From a description in the LMA's list to the Surrey Quarter Sessions records, I found the following useful description: REFORMATORIES AND INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS A similar system of state certification of industrial schools, which provided industrial training to young offenders, was established by the Industrial Schools Act 1857 (20 & 21 Vic, cap.48). The Act empowered magistrates to send vagrant children to such certified schools. This power was extended by the Act of 1861 (24 & 25 Vic, cap.113) to children under 14 brought before a magistrate for begging, vagrancy, destitution, frequenting the company of thieves, or for being refractory and out of the control of their parents, and to children under 12 charged with a punishable offence but for whom training in a industrial school was a more appropriate sentence. By the Industrial Schools Act of 1866 (29 & 30 Vic, cap.118) justices of the peace, as the prison authority for the County, might make grants to such schools and contracts for the reception of children of the County. I am also aware of Peter Higginbotham's excellent www.workhouses.org website, which gives a lot of useful background about individual industrial schools as well as workhouses. Does anyone know if I might find information about why my great grandfather was exiled to Mitcham amongst the Warwick Quarter Sessions records, or are there other local records I should check? Best wishes Graham

Hello Alison I think a search of the List Archives might give more details- I am sure we have been asked about the Mines around North Warwickshire online COLLIERIES OF THE UNITED KINGDOM AT WORK IN, 1880. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cmhrc/list80.htm#WARWICKSHIRE The list gives, Name of Colliery, Where situated and Owner's Name. Exhall, Coventry, Edward Wilson. http://www.tidza.demon.co.uk/pages/1896-49.htm Name of Mine Situation Owner and Postal Address Manager Under- Manager Workers Minerals Worked Remarks (Seam of Coal worked, &c.) Exhall Bedworth Exors. of E. Wilson, Exhall, Bedworth, Nuneaton Joseph Cunliffe Alfred Elliot 351 125 Coal, M, S & H Rider, Ell, Slate Listers with local knowledge will be able to pinpoint the exact location for you. Cheers Wendy Boland Warwick List Admin. My gt gt grandfather was a Engine Driver at Coal Mine in 1881. He lived in Exhall. Does anyone know the name of the coal mine there? Are there any pictures? Thanks Alison _________________________________________________________________

Anne, And here they are in the 1851 census of Southam: HO107/2077, folio 184, page 19 Schedule 70, Coventry Street George GRIFFIN Head Mar 28 Wheelwright Warwick Broadwell Sarah do Wife Mar 36 do Dimchurch Cathrine do Daur 2 do Southam John do Brother 15 Wheelwright do Broadwell Lydia TURNER Visitor Wid? 47 Northampton Cullaworth William GRIFFIN Son 2 wks Warwick Southam And what looks like George's family in the 1841 census of Southam in case you do not already have it: HO107/1138/16, folio 24, page 14 Coventry St George GRIFFIN 40 Hatter Born in county yes Prudence do 35 yes George do 15 yes William do 14 yes John do 5 yes Elizabeth do 12 yes Jane do 11 yes Prudence do 9 yes Mary do 7 yes Hope this helps Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Thorpe" <thorpe@hendafarn.freeserve.co.uk> To: <WARWICK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 7:49 AM Subject: [WAR] Southam > Hello > Does anyone have access to the Parish Registers or 1851/61 census for > Southam Warwickshire? I am looking for the birth of Ann Griffin in 1853 > she was my grandfather's first wife and died in 1879 she may have had a > brother William born 1851 and a sister Catherine born 1849 and if there is > any marriage recorded for Ann Griffin's parents. The other thing I was > looking for is John Graves/Greaves married Sarah Griffin abt 1825 in > Southam, did they have any children recorded in the Parish Register at > Southam. > Rrgards Anne Thorpe > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.3/824 - Release Date: 29/05/2007 > 13:01 > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 12428 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

There are some early 20th c photos of Exhall Colliery on the www.windowsonwarwickshire.org.uk site. MAR in France.

Hi Anne I will send a copy of the 1861 census as an attachment Regards Maureen -----Original Message----- From: warwick-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:warwick-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Anne Thorpe Sent: 31 May 2007 07:50 To: WARWICK@rootsweb.com Subject: [WAR] Southam Hello Does anyone have access to the Parish Registers or 1851/61 census for Southam Warwickshire? I am looking for the birth of Ann Griffin in 1853 she was my grandfather's first wife and died in 1879 she may have had a brother William born 1851 and a sister Catherine born 1849 and if there is any marriage recorded for Ann Griffin's parents. The other thing I was looking for is John Graves/Greaves married Sarah Griffin abt 1825 in Southam, did they have any children recorded in the Parish Register at Southam. Rrgards Anne Thorpe ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Does anyone have access to the Parish Registers or 1851/61 census for Southam Warwickshire? I am looking for the birth of Ann Griffin in 1853 she was my grandfather's first wife and died in 1879 she may have had a brother William born 1851 and a sister Catherine born 1849 and if there is any marriage recorded for Ann Griffin's parents. The other thing I was looking for is John Graves/Greaves married Sarah Griffin abt 1825 in Southam, did they have any children recorded in the Parish Register at Southam. Rrgards Anne Thorpe

Hi everyone My gt gt grandfather was a Engine Driver at Coal Mine in 1881. He lived in Exhall. Does anyone know the name of the coal mine there? Are there any pictures? I have tried google but with no luck so far. Thanks Alison _________________________________________________________________ The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk/

Forwarding this for Carole The problem lies with Tiscali not Rootsweb . Wendy Boland Warwick List Admin. Hi Joan As far as I know the problem is confined to Tiscali....my BT account is working normally. Tiscali tell me .. "We are aware of a problem affecting users sending email to certain recipients and we are working closely with engineers from our suppliers to resolve the problem as soon as possible. However, due to the nature of the problem, we do not expect it to be fully resolved for another few days." ... I do hope it is corrected quickly, since it is most inconvenient !! Carole

Thank you all so very much for all the information received. I now have details to analize and again thank all you wonderfull people for this Best wishes James ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam

I am interested in John CONROY, chimney sweep, who was born in Coventry, in about 1843. He may have been an inmate of the Union Workhouse in Chilvers Coton, Nuneaton,in 1851. Not yet found in 1861. In 1871 he was married to Ann and lodging in Wotten-under-Edge, Gloucestershire. Later in 1871, he was in Pontypool, Monmouthshire, where his daughter Harriet was born. She was baptized in St Alban's Catholic church and my great-grandfather, Irish-born John Harris, was the godfather. The next month, John Conroy was godfather to Ellen Harris, John Harris's daughter. In 1881 John, Ann and Harriet were in Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan. In 1891, John, a widower, was in Cardiff Union workhouse in Glamorgan. John may have been the brother of Michael Conroy, also a chimney sweep, born in Coventry about 1845. Like John, Michael may have been an inmate of the Chilvers Coton workhouse in 1851 but the census entry isn't clear. He was in Nuneaton in 1861, and in Roath, Cardiff in 1881. John and Michael may have been sons of John and Harriet Conroy who were listed in Holy Trinity parish, Coventry, in 1841. That elder John Conroy, a broker (probably a dealer in secondhand goods) was born in Ireland in about 1820. In 1861, another Conroy family, William and Eliza and their children, Catherine, Sarah and Mary Anne, were listed in the same Holy Trinity parish, Coventry. William, a shoemaker, Eliza and Catherine were born in Rathdowny, Queens County (now County Laois, Leix), Ireland. This family may be related to the John Conroys mentioned above. My suspicion is that my John Harris great-grandfather, himself born about 1820, was closely related to the elder John Conroy. I would be grateful for any further information on these families. Best wishes, Sean (Davis, California) ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html

Thank you for informing us Carol. I have sent the same e.mail 3 times and still haven't had a reply. Thought I had offended someone. Is Blueyonder the same? Joan <carole.eales@tiscali.co.uk> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 8:22 PM Subject: [WAR] Missing Tiscali mail [non gen] > Hi folks... > > There appears to be a serious problem with Tiscali.... since Thursday/Friday any e-mails I have sent out have disappeared and very few are being delivered - non from other Tiscali customers. If anyone is expecting a reply from me, please re-send using my BT address (as per this e-mail) > > I sincerely hope the situation will be resolved soon. > > Carole > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

P & J Williams wrote: > Thank you for informing us Carol. I have sent the same e.mail 3 times and > still haven't had a reply. Thought I had offended someone. Is Blueyonder > the same? Blueyonder is part of NTL which is part of Virgin Media, so not the same at Tiscali. However, with queries of this nature it is best to contact the List Admin and also your ISP. They are the ones who'll know if there is a problem. -- Charani (UK)

CAROLE EALES wrote: > Hi folks... > > There appears to be a serious problem with Tiscali.... since Thursday/Friday any e-mails I have sent out have disappeared and very few are being delivered - non from other Tiscali customers. If anyone is expecting a reply from me, please re-send using my BT address (as per this e-mail) > > I sincerely hope the situation will be resolved soon. First thing to do is contact the list admin to see if the problem is with Rootsweb and also take it up with Tiscali in case they've decided to blacklist Rootsweb as spammers which one or two other ISPs do periodically. -- Charani (UK)

Marion, none of your names are of my interest,but in the course of following up my BOTTRILL's of Hillmorton...I have acquired details of the following:- Ellis WILSON(1786) m.1813.Elizabeth HIRONS(1791) plus 9 children with marriage details of four of these children and multi grandchildren. Please contact me off list and I will be happy to send them on to you. Pete of Lyneham,Wilts researching BOTTRILL ............Hillmorton/Rugby COCK Hillimorton/Rugby COWLEY Rugby HART Hillmorton NORRIS Crick PLEDGER Rugby WEBB Crick

Thanks list for all your helpful replies - From the replies it would seem that my ancestor was travelling not from Birmingham_but from somewhere else_to London because he died at Areley Kings opposite Stourport-on-Severn. He was a merchant and traveled between Camborne (Cornwall), Bristol,Newport (Monmouthshire), Birmingham, and London using the mail coaches because they ran through the night. Perhaps he was travelling Newport or Bristol to London - i do need to consult a map and the postoffice web site I think........ many thanks ... Robert in Australia