Another tip if you can't find a family in an index Ask as many 6-9 year olds as you can find to write down the name, they will give you a variety of spellings to try! Marilyn > 4. The entries on the census returns or GRO indexes were the first > transcription, this time of what the enumerator or registrar thought he > heard, with little chance of it being corrected by an illiterate > ancestor. > > 5. The indexes on Ancestry or other census look up sites are another > persons attempt to decide what the trained spider that the enumerator > used to crawl across the page was really trying to tell us. > > 6. Lateral thinking is essential - you might know the 21st century > spelling of your name, or how it is pronounced, but put yourself in the > place of the people who spoke the word, heard the word and wrote the > word down > > 7. If you really cannot find them in the census indexes try using > searches on forenames - long winded, but can be very worthwhile > > 8. If like me you have a fairly uncommon name, write down all the > options you can think of, then add some more > > > Lesson over, but no doubt others can add some other hard learned > thoughts > > > regards > > Alf FANTHAM > Kings Norton > > > > NORMADIANE@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Hi everyone > > > > I am new to this list and wondered if anyone could come up with any > > suggestions for a dilemma. > > > > I have a John Froggatt on my tree, born in Birmingham in 1794. > According to > > the igi I can find 3 children for him and his wife namely William > born 1834. > > Elizabeth born 1833 and Edward born 1837. His wife is listed as > Sarah, all > > children baptised at St Martins. > > > > I cannot find the family on any census except 1871 when John and > Sarah are > > listed as living at 7 Engine Street, Birmingham. > > I cannot find any marriage listed on the igi that looks likely nor > can I > > find the one child Edward born after Civil Registration on St > Catherines Index. > > > > Can anyone please help. I am stuck > > > > Regards and thanks > > Diane Clark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca

Hi Diane, They are transcribed on Ancestry as Huggett on the 1841 census Still at Engine St John 50, lab Sarah 45 An 12 Catherine 10 Elizabeth 8 William 7 Edward 3 Zacariah 1 HO 107/ 1145/8 Kindest regards, Mary NORMADIANE@aol.com wrote: > > I have a John Froggatt on my tree, born in Birmingham in 1794. According to > the igi I can find 3 children for him and his wife namely William born 1834. > Elizabeth born 1833 and Edward born 1837. His wife is listed as Sarah, all > children baptised at St Martins. > > I cannot find the family on any census except 1871 when John and Sarah are > listed as living at 7 Engine Street, Birmingham. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Diane On the IGI there is the following marriage which could be yours John Froggatt & Sarah Wilkes on 25 May 1829 at Edgbaston, Warwick This is just after the birth of their first child Ann in Jan 1829 but that was so often the case in those days. I remember reading somewhere that sometimes they waited to marry until after the first child had been born to sure that the wife could have children. Regards Carole NORMADIANE@aol.com wrote: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:55:35 EDT > John Froggart & Sarah ? > I cannot find any marriage listed on the igi that looks likely. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today.

Hi List May I say I was overwhelmed with your responses to my query from yesterday. The information you all sent me has been invaluable and I would like to say a very very big thank you to all the kind people who took the time and trouble to reply to my message. Thank you all again so very much Regards and best wishes to you all Diane Clark

Hi folks and greetings from Kings Norton in the middle of summer where the sky is a nice shade of battleship grey. I suspect that most of us have been down the route highlighted by Diane and have used the techniques set out in various replies. So at the risk of teaching most of you how to suck eggs what can we glean from this. 1. The IGI is an index, riddled with mis-transcriptions, missing entries, missing parish registers and finally someone else's thoughts on where there ancestors should appear. 2. You cannot avoid looking at the original registers, which contain that element missing from the IGI - namely burials 3. Whilst we all will probably have a family missing from one census, the chances of them missing from a whole range is most unlikely. 4. The entries on the census returns or GRO indexes were the first transcription, this time of what the enumerator or registrar thought he heard, with little chance of it being corrected by an illiterate ancestor. 5. The indexes on Ancestry or other census look up sites are another persons attempt to decide what the trained spider that the enumerator used to crawl across the page was really trying to tell us. 6. Lateral thinking is essential - you might know the 21st century spelling of your name, or how it is pronounced, but put yourself in the place of the people who spoke the word, heard the word and wrote the word down 7. If you really cannot find them in the census indexes try using searches on forenames - long winded, but can be very worthwhile 8. If like me you have a fairly uncommon name, write down all the options you can think of, then add some more Lesson over, but no doubt others can add some other hard learned thoughts regards Alf FANTHAM Kings Norton NORMADIANE@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi everyone > > I am new to this list and wondered if anyone could come up with any > suggestions for a dilemma. > > I have a John Froggatt on my tree, born in Birmingham in 1794. According to > the igi I can find 3 children for him and his wife namely William born 1834. > Elizabeth born 1833 and Edward born 1837. His wife is listed as Sarah, all > children baptised at St Martins. > > I cannot find the family on any census except 1871 when John and Sarah are > listed as living at 7 Engine Street, Birmingham. > I cannot find any marriage listed on the igi that looks likely nor can I > find the one child Edward born after Civil Registration on St Catherines Index. > > Can anyone please help. I am stuck > > Regards and thanks > Diane Clark > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

NORMADIANE@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi everyone > > I am new to this list and wondered if anyone could come up with any > suggestions for a dilemma. > > I have a John Froggatt on my tree, born in Birmingham in 1794. According to > the igi I can find 3 children for him and his wife namely William born 1834. > Elizabeth born 1833 and Edward born 1837. His wife is listed as Sarah, all > children baptised at St Martins. > > I cannot find the family on any census except 1871 when John and Sarah are > listed as living at 7 Engine Street, Birmingham. > I cannot find any marriage listed on the igi that looks likely nor can I > find the one child Edward born after Civil Registration on St Catherines Index. > > Can anyone please help. I am stuck First of all, don't worry about not being able to find everything you want on the IGI. It's not complete by any means and isn't very reliable either, esp if the entries you find are patron submissions which can vary from complete accuracy to total fantasy and all points in between! You have Edward born in 1837. If he was born before 1 July 1837, then he won't appear in the GRO indices. Even if he was born afterwards the parents may not have been aware of the necessity of registering the child, perhaps thinking that baptism was registration enough. It was also the registrar's job to find all the newborns. So, if he didn't know about the child, he wouldn't have looked for the family in order to register him. That said, have a look for Edward a couple of years after 1837 although I suspect he probably arrived in the world pre civil registration. If you have a look on www.familysearch.org you can find where your nearest Family History Centre (FHC) is. You'll be able to hire the film for the parish from them and be able to find the baptisms and you'll know how accurate the information on the IGI is (or isnt). You'll be able to find out if there are any more children as well. Parental ages and places of birth are fluid as well. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, SOM

Sorry it is "FROGITT" > The family are transcribed as Frogit, living in Eugene St. on the 3 County > 1851 disk. Ancestry 1881 William is still living at 7 Engine St, surname FROGGETT. Bill

The family are transcribed as Frogit, living in Eugene St. on the 3 County 1851 disk. Bill Burgoyne My website :- http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~billburgoyne/ All outgoing mail checked by Norton 2006 anti-virus ----- Original Message ----- From: <NORMADIANE@aol.com> To: <WARWICK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 11:55 PM Subject: [WAR] Frustrated > > > Hi everyone > > I am new to this list and wondered if anyone could come up with any > suggestions for a dilemma. > > I have a John Froggatt on my tree, born in Birmingham in 1794. According > to > the igi I can find 3 children for him and his wife namely William born > 1834. > Elizabeth born 1833 and Edward born 1837. His wife is listed as Sarah, > all > children baptised at St Martins. > > I cannot find the family on any census except 1871 when John and Sarah > are > listed as living at 7 Engine Street, Birmingham. > I cannot find any marriage listed on the igi that looks likely nor can I > find the one child Edward born after Civil Registration on St Catherines > Index. > > Can anyone please help. I am stuck > > Regards and thanks > Diane Clark > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi List, When using the IGI search facility (within Custom Search) I have found that the seven digit batch numbers work better when you add the sheet number as well. I then have changed the sheet number to look for other family members. I discovered this when I had two known family siblings with the same 7 digit batch number but 20 sheets apart. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that the seven digit batch numbers are not the same type of entries as the C(6 digit) numbers. Regards, Jan Vernon Sydney, Australia

Hi everyone I am new to this list and wondered if anyone could come up with any suggestions for a dilemma. I have a John Froggatt on my tree, born in Birmingham in 1794. According to the igi I can find 3 children for him and his wife namely William born 1834. Elizabeth born 1833 and Edward born 1837. His wife is listed as Sarah, all children baptised at St Martins. I cannot find the family on any census except 1871 when John and Sarah are listed as living at 7 Engine Street, Birmingham. I cannot find any marriage listed on the igi that looks likely nor can I find the one child Edward born after Civil Registration on St Catherines Index. Can anyone please help. I am stuck Regards and thanks Diane Clark

Hi Jeff, Although Dunchurch (and its chapelry of Thurlaston) are on the opposite side of the County from Ragley, it doesn't follow that your 1659 William wasn't "from" there. The "of Ragley" merely implies that he was living there at the time of making his will (or when he died) - it wouldn't necessarily mean that he was born there. Parishes of Birth were only of any real significance if having to claim relief under the various Poor Laws. And a Yeaoman was - generally - a tenant farmer, who'd be quite liable to travel some distance to rent a farm that 'suited' him. But I regret I can't help on the location of Hundred Oaks..... Gus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Butler" <pateena@iprimus.com.au> To: <warwick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 8:12 AM Subject: [WAR] Dunchurch Hello Thank you all for Ragley. As all my family came from the Dunchurch area around 1580-1750, I was hoping Ragley was near there. I have a document of Articles of Agreement between the Noble John Duke of Montagu dated 1727 and several land holders; one being Joan Butler of Thurlaston, and a Gent William Butler of HUNDRED-OAKS. Is that Dunchurch? Regards Jeff ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Does anyone on the list have any info on this VAD hospital during WW1? Thanks Moira --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today.

Hello Thank you all for Ragley. As all my family came from the Dunchurch area around 1580-1750, I was hoping Ragley was near there. I have a document of Articles of Agreement between the Noble John Duke of Montagu dated 1727 and several land holders; one being Joan Butler of Thurlaston, and a Gent William Butler of HUNDRED-OAKS. Is that Dunchurch? Regards Jeff

My great-great-gradfather, Charles Gardner, was born about 1805 in Wasperton, Warwickshire. He married Eliza Needle (born about 1815 in Hinckley, Leicetershire) in Wasperton 5 Apr 1836. Their daughter, Charlotte (christened 3 Sep 1843, in Wasperton), married Charles Hughes in Stratford-on-Avon 24 Nov 1861. Any information in Charles Gardner's family (parents, siblings) or Eliza's, would be appreciated. Much thanks, Sharee Hughes

Not really nitpicking, and hope this is taken in the spirit intended - If the Marquess rolled his Rs, surely he'd say Rrrrragley. Not sure what the correct term is for turning Rs into Ws, though it's quite a common phenomenon in English speakers. Gwyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Burgoyne" <bil.burgoyne@btinternet.com> To: "Jeff Butler" <pateena@iprimus.com.au>; <warwick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 7:09 AM Subject: Re: [WAR] Looking for place Ragley > Ragley is close Alcester, Ragley Hall estate is the home of the Marques of > Hertford, the previous Marquees rolled his "R's" and pronounced his home > as > "Wagley". > > Bill > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Butler" <pateena@iprimus.com.au> > To: <warwick@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 4:26 AM > Subject: [WAR] Looking for place Ragley > > >> Hello >> I can find a will dated 1659 Will of William Butler, Yeoman of Ragley, >> Warwickshire but I can not find Ragley ,hope someone can help >> Jeff >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you to all that replied Regards Jeff

Lisping Penny Courtney Hampshire UK

Hello Bob, Several questions arise here... 1) Were both your grandparents living at the same address in 1911? 2) Did they then accurately report their surnames as being different? 3) Alternatively, what was the relationship shown between them? 4) How soon before he enlisted did they marry? What comes to mind is that whatever they may have stated in the 1911 Census, this was - as far as they were concerned - totally confidential, and nobody other than the Enumerators and Summarisers would see their answers. It was a totally private document... However, if they weren't married - and grandfather was volunteering to enlist - then *if* he was killed there'd be little likelihood of a widow's pension for grandmother. It made sense to marry - or at least "go through a form of marriage", for there's also the unanswered question of why didn't they marry earlier? [Might one of them have already been married but undivorced?]. The Marriage Certificate, however, was a Public Document that anyone could see (although I wonder slightly why they didn't merely say that they were "of age" or "over 21"). And I don't know what the maximum age for enlistment was in 1914 - but *if* the 1911 Census details were accurate, then grandfather would've been 34 or 35, which might've "kept him out of the war". OTOH a marriage certificate (to prove his potential widow's entitlement) showing that he was 30 would've been quite acceptable to a Recruiting Officer... Have you found their Birth Registrations to establish just how old they really were? Gus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Holmes" <holmes@holmesr923.plus.com> To: <WARWICK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 7:00 AM Subject: [WAR] age discrepancy I have just paid out £45 for a copy of the 1911 census and very useful it is too. However,it is difficult to explain away certain age discrepancies: In 1911 ,grandfather is 31 and grandmother is 29 . When they married in 1914-just before he volunteered for the army- the stated ages are 30 and 24! While both could write, was their arithmetic so awful or memory so bad. As she had already declared her real? age in 1911 was their any point in concealment at the marriage. bob holmes ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Could it be a transcription error for Ratley in the far SE of Warwickshire? On 08/07/2007, at 1:26 PM, Jeff Butler wrote: > Hello > I can find a will dated 1659 Will of William Butler, Yeoman of > Ragley, Warwickshire but I can not find Ragley ,hope someone can help > Jeff > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello I can find a will dated 1659 Will of William Butler, Yeoman of Ragley, Warwickshire but I can not find Ragley ,hope someone can help Jeff