Forwarding to advise of changes- Wendy Boland List Admin The following message has been posted on behalf of Sam Collenette - acting head of service, Birmingham City Archives. Dear Colleagues Birmingham City Archives and Central Library's Local Studies service will become a single service on Floor 6 of Central Library in 2008. This will mean improved access to collections, advice and resources for library users, in particular for those with mobility problems. In order to prepare for this staff training will take place from Monday 30th July until 29th September 2007. This has the following impact on services in Archives and Local Studies during August and September: Archives will open at 11 am on Friday and Saturday morning instead of 10am and will have a reduced service on Friday afternoon from 3-5pm. Local Studies and History will operate a reduced service on Monday morning 9-11 am, Friday afternoon 3-5pm and Saturday morning 9-11am. The Archive opening hours will be as follows: Mondays: Closed Tues 10-5pm Weds: 10-5pm Thurs 10-8pm Fri 11-5pm Sat 11-5pm I would be very grateful if you could advise members of the public about these changes. A poster for display is available, please contact me if you would like a copy. Yours sincerely Sam Collenette Birmingham City Archives

Hi everyone I am seeking the birth details of Sarah Veazey, born in Warwickshire around 1806. She appears in the 1851 and 1861 censuses, married to John Langford. The references are HO 107/2019/526/29 and RG9/2015/38/21. Unfortunately I cannot make out her birthplace. The nearest I can get is Holyhurst, but I cannot find such a place in Warwickshire. Her children by a previous marriage, the DEGVILLEs, were allegedly born at Atherstone. Any suggestions would be welcome. TIA Peter

Hi All, I have just posted the 1861 FreeCEN piece RG09-2225 - Warwick St Mary to my website See www.hunimex.com/warwick/freecens/1861/index_1861.html for a link to all the files transcribed so far Happy Hunting Pickard Trepess Nagykanizsa, Hungary

Hello Listers I would strongly recommend anyone to always check the day before a visit to any repository. If you have specific items you wish to see, check they are available - it won't be the first time a researcher has gone to use an item which was "away for restoration work" or similar. All sorts of local difficulties can arise which could make it a wasted journey: a phone call to the actual desk in the repository can save a lot of frustration. Jacqui ----- Original Message ----- From: alf To: warwick@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [WAR] Birmingham City Archives - Temporary Change of Hours Hi folks and thanks to Wendy for posting the Birmingham info. I think that for anyone conversant with the layout at central library the statement is confusing. It starts by talking of the re-organisation of the 6th floor and then slips into arrangements for the 7th floor(Archives), so the times laid out need to be considered in the context of which part you/we intend to visit. The moral here seems to be that if you intend to travel to to Birmingham, a phone call would be advisable just to make sure the opening times are as you think. regards Alf FANTHAM Kings Norton Wendy Boland wrote: > Forwarding to advise of changes- > > Wendy Boland > List Admin > > > > The following message has been posted on behalf of Sam Collenette - acting > head of service, Birmingham City Archives. > > Dear Colleagues > > Birmingham City Archives and Central Library's Local Studies service will > become a single service on Floor 6 of Central Library in 2008. This will > mean improved access to collections, advice and resources for library > users, in particular for those with mobility problems. > > In order to prepare for this staff training will take place from Monday > 30th July until 29th September 2007. > > This has the following impact on services in Archives and Local Studies > during August and September: > > Archives will open at 11 am on Friday and Saturday morning instead of 10am > and will have a reduced service on Friday afternoon from 3-5pm. > > Local Studies and History will operate a reduced service on Monday morning > 9-11 am, Friday afternoon 3-5pm and Saturday morning 9-11am. > > The Archive opening hours will be as follows: > > Mondays: Closed > Tues 10-5pm > Weds: 10-5pm > Thurs 10-8pm > Fri 11-5pm > Sat 11-5pm > > I would be very grateful if you could advise members of the public about > these changes. A poster for display is available, please contact me if you > would like a copy. > > Yours sincerely > > > Sam Collenette > Birmingham City Archives > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.5/899 - Release Date: 13/07/2007 15:41

Hi folks and thanks to Wendy for posting the Birmingham info. I think that for anyone conversant with the layout at central library the statement is confusing. It starts by talking of the re-organisation of the 6th floor and then slips into arrangements for the 7th floor(Archives), so the times laid out need to be considered in the context of which part you/we intend to visit. The moral here seems to be that if you intend to travel to to Birmingham, a phone call would be advisable just to make sure the opening times are as you think. regards Alf FANTHAM Kings Norton Wendy Boland wrote: > Forwarding to advise of changes- > > Wendy Boland > List Admin > > > > The following message has been posted on behalf of Sam Collenette - acting > head of service, Birmingham City Archives. > > Dear Colleagues > > Birmingham City Archives and Central Library's Local Studies service will > become a single service on Floor 6 of Central Library in 2008. This will > mean improved access to collections, advice and resources for library > users, in particular for those with mobility problems. > > In order to prepare for this staff training will take place from Monday > 30th July until 29th September 2007. > > This has the following impact on services in Archives and Local Studies > during August and September: > > Archives will open at 11 am on Friday and Saturday morning instead of 10am > and will have a reduced service on Friday afternoon from 3-5pm. > > Local Studies and History will operate a reduced service on Monday morning > 9-11 am, Friday afternoon 3-5pm and Saturday morning 9-11am. > > The Archive opening hours will be as follows: > > Mondays: Closed > Tues 10-5pm > Weds: 10-5pm > Thurs 10-8pm > Fri 11-5pm > Sat 11-5pm > > I would be very grateful if you could advise members of the public about > these changes. A poster for display is available, please contact me if you > would like a copy. > > Yours sincerely > > > Sam Collenette > Birmingham City Archives > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Hello Again. According to the IGI Mark CHATTERLEY married Amelia DIZON (probably DIXON) in Coughton 29th May 1830. Is anyone able to help me, please, with any information about Mark's ancestors? The IGI has a son also, Mark, born in 1831 and three later siblings. I would like to connect this family back into the CHATTERLEY trees I am researching in the 10 mile area round Spernal. The only Mark CHATTERLEYs I have come across were one born in Leamington in 1849 to a Bearley born Edward CHATTERLEY and his nephew, Mark William born 1856 also in Leamington. TIA. Mike

Helen, Mike - and Listers in general, I very strongly suspect that this marriage was by Banns... This Family History Online Web Site extract is a "condensed version" of their pre-prepared format, where all the individual lines have been run into one block of text, which causes unnecessary confusion. Those 'hyphens' are *NOT* 'spacings' but instead indicate 'blanks'. It should really be read as: Married at Coughton, WAR Date 4/11/1799 Licence - Groom John CHATTERLEY aged - status Widower residence as entered - attributed Residence - Notes - Bride Mary GIBBS aged - status - residence as entered Tardebigge Attributed Residence Tardebigge Notes - Misc. Info. - This is the 2nd example I've seen in a week - the format being identical - and on checking the other to the Parish Register there was *NO* indication that it was by Licence. Doubtless Family History Online have an Explanatory Section "somewhere" on their site - but it doesn't seem to be easily accessible! A far better thing would be for them to put 'Licence' under the 'Misc Info' section... Gus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Verrall" <hverrall@ihug.co.nz> To: <WARWICK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 3:34 AM Subject: [WAR] : CHATTERLEY/DIXON Mike Located this marriage on Family History Online Web Site 1. Married at Coughton, WAR Date 4/11/1799 Licence - Groom John CHATTERLEY aged - status Widower residence as entered - attributed Residence - Notes - Bride Mary GIBBS aged - status - residence as entered Tardebigge Attributed Residence Tardebigge Notes - Misc. Info. - So possibly it was Mark who came from Coughton , thre is a John Chatterley in 1851 Census who was born in Alcester , which of course is close by. The marriage was by License possibly a copy would be at Birmingham Archives. Helen NZ -----Original Message----- From: Helen Verrall [mailto:hverrall@ihug.co.nz] Sent: Saturday, 14 July 2007 2:18 p.m. To: 'Mike'; '1. Married at Coughton, WAR Date 4/11/1799 Licence - Groom John CHATTERLEY aged - status Widower residence as entered - attributed Residence - Notes - Bride Mary GIBBS aged - status - residence as entered Tardebigge Attributed Residence Tardebigge Notes - Misc. Info. -WARWICK@rootsweb.com' Subject: RE: [WAR] CHATTERLEY/DIXON Mike This is the only Mark Chatterley I can find before 1849 - ( there are also siblings ) >From British Vital Records Index. CHATTERLEY, Mark Christening Gender: Male Christening Date: 26 May 1839 Recorded in: Leamington, Warwickshire, England Collection: All Saints Father: Edward CHATTERLEY Mother: Eliza Source: FHL Film 1067477 Dates: 1831 - 1861 In 1851 Census there are other CHATTERLEY's either living or born in Bearley. Edward above was born Bearley, so presumably the same gentleman you found. hth Helen Lower Hutt NZ -----Original Message----- From: warwick-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:warwick-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Saturday, 14 July 2007 8:06 a.m. To: WARWICK@rootsweb.com Subject: [WAR] CHATTERLEY/DIXON Hello Again. According to the IGI Mark CHATTERLEY married Amelia DIZON (probably DIXON) in Coughton 29th May 1830. Is anyone able to help me, please, with any information about Mark's ancestors? The IGI has a son also, Mark, born in 1831 and three later siblings. I would like to connect this family back into the CHATTERLEY trees I am researching in the 10 mile area round Spernal. The only Mark CHATTERLEYs I have come across were one born in Leamington in 1849 to a Bearley born Edward CHATTERLEY and his nephew, Mark William born 1856 also in Leamington. TIA. Mike ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi again Pat, Have found various mentions of bath chairs in my books about Leamington. I'm sure originally they were used to push people around from their hotels to the baths whilst they were in Leamington 'taking the waters', but in the later 19th century when the town as a spa was in decline, they seem to have been used mostly by elderly ladies - being taken to church or to visit friends and at Christmastime children were sometimes taken in them to parties. Apparently there were several bath chair establishments in the town with the proprietors employing men to pull them. A forerunner of our taxi service I suppose. They existed until the early Edwardian period when the tram and motorcar took over. One lady remembered a relative owning a bath chair business and she would sometimes be given a special treat - a ride in one of his sumptuous Bath chairs. She recalls the chair itself was a "miracle of comfort, beautifully sprung and richly upholstered in dark blue. A stout leather hood kept out the wind and weather and a sloping wooden lid was fastened over the knees and the little side door shut. If it rained there was a hinged window resting upon the sloping lid which could be raised to fit across the front of the hood." I think the Trade Directories would probably only give the names of the Bath chair proprietors rather than all the men who worked for them. I don't know of any archive or register of these men, but someone else may know if there is one. Sue Kenilworth, Warwicks. Message: 1 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:23:03 EDT From: Jpatdball@aol.com Subject: [WAR] Bathchairmen- Leamington Spa To: WARWICK@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <d53.ddbf923.33c7a157@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hello All, I am researching VARNEY in Warwickshire and noted that census returns describe several who lived in Leamington as "Bathchair Man". As Leamington was a Spa town does this mean they pushed invalids around until they found a suitable fountain to suit them? Did they work for themselves and ply for hire or work for the Pump Room? Is there any archive or register of these men or Trade Diectory references of names? Any help appreciated (I am getting on a bit and may need one!!) Pat Ball

This comment has made me smile...the local authority sees opportunity to 'regulate' a service so that it can charge for the licence!! Or am I just too cynical...? However, licensing will mean records of the licences, if they have survived! I tried the Warwick RO on-line catalogue with various combinations of bath/chair/licence but nothing obvious popped up. Jacqui ----- Original Message ----- From: Bromwell13@aol.com To: warwick@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 10:53 AM Subject: [WAR] Bath Chair Man Hi One of my Hodgetts ancestors from Warwickshire retired to LLandudno and had a licence from the local authority which had to be renewed annually to have a bath chair to push folks around on the promenade 1901 to 1909. Dorothea ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.4/898 - Release Date: 12/07/2007 16:08

The museum in Leamington, which is on the premises of the old Royal Pump Room, may be able to give you some information. I visited it some years ago and they have very interesting displays and material on the history of the spa. Their e-mail address is prooms@warwickdc.gov.uk . As no doubt everybody knows the bath chair got its name from that other famous and much older British spa - Bath - for which it was invented in the 18th c. It could be propelled by a animal (small pony, donkey) or by a man. MAR in France. > Message du 12/07/07 17:24 > De : Jpatdball@aol.com > A : WARWICK@rootsweb.com > Copie à : > Objet : [WAR] Bathchairmen- Leamington Spa > > Hello All, > I am researching VARNEY in Warwickshire and noted that census returns > describe several who lived in Leamington as "Bathchair Man". As Leamington was a > Spa town does this mean they pushed invalids around until they found a suitable > fountain to suit them? Did they work for themselves and ply for hire or work > for the Pump Room? Is there any archive or register of these men or Trade > Diectory references of names? > > Any help appreciated (I am getting on a bit and may need one!!) > > Pat Ball > > > > > >--- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > maraix

Pat, I don't think it was just invalids that used the bathchairs. The road up to the top of the Parade is quite steep and I think anyone could hire a bathchair to take them up and down. No idea about who employed the the bathchair men though. Will look in my books on Leamington and see if I can come up with something. Sue Kenilworth ------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:23:03 EDT From: Jpatdball@aol.com Subject: [WAR] Bathchairmen- Leamington Spa To: WARWICK@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <d53.ddbf923.33c7a157@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hello All, I am researching VARNEY in Warwickshire and noted that census returns describe several who lived in Leamington as "Bathchair Man". As Leamington was a Spa town does this mean they pushed invalids around until they found a suitable fountain to suit them? Did they work for themselves and ply for hire or work for the Pump Room? Is there any archive or register of these men or Trade Diectory references of names? Any help appreciated (I am getting on a bit and may need one!!) Pat Ball

Hi One of my Hodgetts ancestors from Warwickshire retired to LLandudno and had a licence from the local authority which had to be renewed annually to have a bath chair to push folks around on the promenade 1901 to 1909. Dorothea

Hello All, I am researching VARNEY in Warwickshire and noted that census returns describe several who lived in Leamington as "Bathchair Man". As Leamington was a Spa town does this mean they pushed invalids around until they found a suitable fountain to suit them? Did they work for themselves and ply for hire or work for the Pump Room? Is there any archive or register of these men or Trade Diectory references of names? Any help appreciated (I am getting on a bit and may need one!!) Pat Ball

My advice has been to get a lisper to say the name to a class of partial dyslexics (in these days any class of 14 year olds would do) and get them to write down what they hear!! Not PC but you get the idea. My wife's maiden name was CHATTERLEY. Beside that and the common CHATTERLY I have a list of 38 other spellings that appear in the various censuses. There must be more as I am still missing people in specific years. What is worse is that, in 1881, a family whose name was CHURCHLEY was transcribed as CHATTERLEY, poor family, they were then CRUSCHLEY in 1891. The thing that caused me to sweat were that the parents had the same names as one of my CHATTERLEYs and both wives were born in Great Alne!!!! Mike

Fantastic!! I enjoyed the Froggatt/Huggatt/Frogitt thread - there's a lesson in there that's encouraged me to 'ave another go at my 'brickwall' thank you.... Robert in Australia On 7/11/07, warwick-request@rootsweb.com <warwick-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Frustrated (NORMADIANE@aol.com) > 2. Re: Frustrated (Mary Rogers) > 3. Re: Frustrated (Wendy Boland) > 4. Re: Frustrated (Colin Liddell) > 5. Re: Frustrated (Wendy Boland) > 6. Re: Frustrated (Bill Burgoyne) > 7. Re: Frustrated (Bill Burgoyne) > 8. Re: Frustrated (Charani) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:55:35 EDT > From: NORMADIANE@aol.com > Subject: [WAR] Frustrated > To: WARWICK@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <d64.bf108be.33c56867@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > Hi everyone > > I am new to this list and wondered if anyone could come up with any > suggestions for a dilemma. > > I have a John Froggatt on my tree, born in Birmingham in 1794. According to > the igi I can find 3 children for him and his wife namely William born 1834. > Elizabeth born 1833 and Edward born 1837. His wife is listed as Sarah, all > children baptised at St Martins. > > I cannot find the family on any census except 1871 when John and Sarah are > listed as living at 7 Engine Street, Birmingham. > I cannot find any marriage listed on the igi that looks likely nor can I > find the one child Edward born after Civil Registration on St Catherines Index. > > Can anyone please help. I am stuck > > Regards and thanks > Diane Clark > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:04:34 +1000 > From: Mary Rogers <genea@iprimus.com.au> > Subject: Re: [WAR] Frustrated > To: NORMADIANE@aol.com, WARWICK-L@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <46942CA2.4010101@iprimus.com.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi Diane, > > They are transcribed on Ancestry as Huggett on the 1841 census > Still at Engine St > > John 50, lab > Sarah 45 > An 12 > Catherine 10 > Elizabeth 8 > William 7 > Edward 3 > Zacariah 1 > > HO 107/ 1145/8 > > Kindest regards, > > Mary > > NORMADIANE@aol.com wrote: > > > > I have a John Froggatt on my tree, born in Birmingham in 1794. According to > > the igi I can find 3 children for him and his wife namely William born 1834. > > Elizabeth born 1833 and Edward born 1837. His wife is listed as Sarah, all > > children baptised at St Martins. > > > > I cannot find the family on any census except 1871 when John and Sarah are > > listed as living at 7 Engine Street, Birmingham. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:25:44 +1000 > From: "Wendy Boland" <wendy.boland@bigpond.com> > Subject: Re: [WAR] Frustrated > To: "Mary Rogers" <genea@iprimus.com.au>, <NORMADIANE@aol.com>, > <WARWICK-L@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <006901c7c35a$672e29a0$0200000a@Calvin> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Yes and as FROGGETT on the Warwickshire Ancestors Version, which can be assessed for free on > www.hunimex.com/warwick > > There is a search engine provided for you - so not a lot of effort is required. > > Sometimes wonder why we bothered putting the 1841 and '91 online if no-one uses it anymore. > > > Dont mention the 1861 - I am still trying to convince myself that I am not wasting my precious time plus that of the 50 volunteers still transcribing the remaining 33 pieces. > > snarl --------- > > Wendy Boland > > Co-ordinator Warwickshire 1841 1861 census and FreeREG Transcription Teams > > > . > > They are transcribed on Ancestry as Huggett on the 1841 census > Still at Engine St > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:33:35 +1000 > From: "Colin Liddell" <caplid@optusnet.com.au> > Subject: Re: [WAR] Frustrated > To: <WARWICK-L@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <00b701c7c363$e2c1aa70$4001a8c0@house1> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > No Wendy, it is not a waste of time, it will all be appreciated.{:-) > > Colin. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Wendy Boland > To: Mary Rogers ; NORMADIANE@aol.com ; WARWICK-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 11:25 AM > Subject: Re: [WAR] Frustrated > > > Yes and as FROGGETT on the Warwickshire Ancestors Version, which can be assessed for free on > www.hunimex.com/warwick > > There is a search engine provided for you - so not a lot of effort is required. > > Sometimes wonder why we bothered putting the 1841 and '91 online if no-one uses it anymore. > > > Dont mention the 1861 - I am still trying to convince myself that I am not wasting my precious time plus that of the 50 volunteers still transcribing the remaining 33 pieces. > > snarl --------- > > Wendy Boland > > Co-ordinator Warwickshire 1841 1861 census and FreeREG Transcription Teams > > > . > > They are transcribed on Ancestry as Huggett on the 1841 census > Still at Engine St > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:28:06 +1000 > From: "Wendy Boland" <wendy.boland@bigpond.com> > Subject: Re: [WAR] Frustrated > To: "Colin Liddell" <caplid@optusnet.com.au>, <WARWICK-L@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <000d01c7c373$e0d04770$0200000a@Calvin> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Please excuse my snarling - I can feel the frustration showing through again- perhaps it's time I took a break and did some gardening instead - anyone want to take over the Projects for a month or three ? > > Back to basics. > > NEWBIES please try www.hunimex.com/warwick > > Pickards Pink Pages for info on how to, where to, and what, in Warwickshire plus lots of census transcriptions > and more goodies for FREE- > > If you cannot find what you seek there or on GENUKI or by googling > then by all means ask for advice from the LIst- > It may be a last resort but it means we can call on the collective knowledge plus our varied resources to help. > > Okay I will go and bash a few weeds in the paddock and come back in a sweeter mood. (you hope) > Cheers > Madame Lash. > > > No Wendy, it is not a waste of time, it will all be appreciated.{:-) > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 06:15:11 +0100 > From: "Bill Burgoyne" <bil.burgoyne@btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [WAR] Frustrated > To: <NORMADIANE@aol.com>, <WARWICK@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <002301c7c37a$755a3120$4101a8c0@bill1> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > The family are transcribed as Frogit, living in Eugene St. on the 3 County > 1851 disk. > > Bill Burgoyne > > My website :- http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~billburgoyne/ > All outgoing mail checked by Norton 2006 anti-virus > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <NORMADIANE@aol.com> > To: <WARWICK@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 11:55 PM > Subject: [WAR] Frustrated > > > > > > > > Hi everyone > > > > I am new to this list and wondered if anyone could come up with any > > suggestions for a dilemma. > > > > I have a John Froggatt on my tree, born in Birmingham in 1794. According > > to > > the igi I can find 3 children for him and his wife namely William born > > 1834. > > Elizabeth born 1833 and Edward born 1837. His wife is listed as Sarah, > > all > > children baptised at St Martins. > > > > I cannot find the family on any census except 1871 when John and Sarah > > are > > listed as living at 7 Engine Street, Birmingham. > > I cannot find any marriage listed on the igi that looks likely nor can I > > find the one child Edward born after Civil Registration on St Catherines > > Index. > > > > Can anyone please help. I am stuck > > > > Regards and thanks > > Diane Clark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 06:33:18 +0100 > From: "Bill Burgoyne" <bil.burgoyne@btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [WAR] Frustrated > To: "Bill Burgoyne" <bil.burgoyne@btinternet.com>, > <NORMADIANE@aol.com>, <WARWICK@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <002a01c7c37c$fd3c7fb0$4101a8c0@bill1> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Sorry it is "FROGITT" > > > > The family are transcribed as Frogit, living in Eugene St. on the 3 County > > 1851 disk. > > Ancestry 1881 William is still living at 7 Engine St, surname FROGGETT. > > Bill > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 07:21:26 +0100 > From: Charani <familyhunter@family-hunter.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [WAR] Frustrated > To: warwick@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <469476E6.90507@family-hunter.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > NORMADIANE@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > Hi everyone > > > > I am new to this list and wondered if anyone could come up with any > > suggestions for a dilemma. > > > > I have a John Froggatt on my tree, born in Birmingham in 1794. According to > > the igi I can find 3 children for him and his wife namely William born 1834. > > Elizabeth born 1833 and Edward born 1837. His wife is listed as Sarah, all > > children baptised at St Martins. > > > > I cannot find the family on any census except 1871 when John and Sarah are > > listed as living at 7 Engine Street, Birmingham. > > I cannot find any marriage listed on the igi that looks likely nor can I > > find the one child Edward born after Civil Registration on St Catherines Index. > > > > Can anyone please help. I am stuck > > First of all, don't worry about not being able to find everything you > want on the IGI. It's not complete by any means and isn't very > reliable either, esp if the entries you find are patron submissions > which can vary from complete accuracy to total fantasy and all points > in between! > > You have Edward born in 1837. If he was born before 1 July 1837, then > he won't appear in the GRO indices. Even if he was born afterwards > the parents may not have been aware of the necessity of registering > the child, perhaps thinking that baptism was registration enough. It > was also the registrar's job to find all the newborns. So, if he > didn't know about the child, he wouldn't have looked for the family in > order to register him. That said, have a look for Edward a couple of > years after 1837 although I suspect he probably arrived in the world > pre civil registration. > > If you have a look on www.familysearch.org you can find where your > nearest Family History Centre (FHC) is. You'll be able to hire the > film for the parish from them and be able to find the baptisms and > you'll know how accurate the information on the IGI is (or isnt). > You'll be able to find out if there are any more children as well. > > Parental ages and places of birth are fluid as well. > > > -- > Charani (UK) > OPC for Walton, SOM > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the WARWICK list administrator, send an email to > WARWICK-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the WARWICK mailing list, send an email to WARWICK@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of WARWICK Digest, Vol 2, Issue 217 > *************************************** >

What a BRILLIANT idea - inspired! I've got a 5yr and 9yr old. I'll certainly try it next time I'm stuck :-) Heather Q MGS wrote: > Another tip if you can't find a family in an index > > Ask as many 6-9 year olds as you can find to write down the name, they will give you a variety of spellings to try! > > Marilyn

Please excuse my snarling - I can feel the frustration showing through again- perhaps it's time I took a break and did some gardening instead - anyone want to take over the Projects for a month or three ? Back to basics. NEWBIES please try www.hunimex.com/warwick Pickards Pink Pages for info on how to, where to, and what, in Warwickshire plus lots of census transcriptions and more goodies for FREE- If you cannot find what you seek there or on GENUKI or by googling then by all means ask for advice from the LIst- It may be a last resort but it means we can call on the collective knowledge plus our varied resources to help. Okay I will go and bash a few weeds in the paddock and come back in a sweeter mood. (you hope) Cheers Madame Lash. No Wendy, it is not a waste of time, it will all be appreciated.{:-)

No Wendy, it is not a waste of time, it will all be appreciated.{:-) Colin. ----- Original Message ----- From: Wendy Boland To: Mary Rogers ; NORMADIANE@aol.com ; WARWICK-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [WAR] Frustrated Yes and as FROGGETT on the Warwickshire Ancestors Version, which can be assessed for free on www.hunimex.com/warwick There is a search engine provided for you - so not a lot of effort is required. Sometimes wonder why we bothered putting the 1841 and '91 online if no-one uses it anymore. Dont mention the 1861 - I am still trying to convince myself that I am not wasting my precious time plus that of the 50 volunteers still transcribing the remaining 33 pieces. snarl --------- Wendy Boland Co-ordinator Warwickshire 1841 1861 census and FreeREG Transcription Teams . They are transcribed on Ancestry as Huggett on the 1841 census Still at Engine St ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'll just add another two penn'orth to what Alf wrote - I agree with all he says... Firstly, *EVERYTHING* that you find "on the Net" is - at the very least - a MINIMUM of one transcription from the original document, with all the inevitable errors that arise in transcribing. [OK the 1911 census won't be (when and if it becomes easily available) and there just MAY be the very odd set of images from Parish Registers - which for baptisms and burials were in any case written-up later from rough notes and memory...] Secondly, that the IGI/FamilySearch - flawed as it is - is still the best-available *finding guide* we have. Our problems would be magnified many times over but for this magnificent piece of work and labour of love of the LDS' members and other submitters. But it *does* need to be checked against Registers... Gus ----- Original Message ----- From: "alf" <alf.fantham@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <WARWICK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [WAR] Frustrated Hi folks and greetings from Kings Norton in the middle of summer where the sky is a nice shade of battleship grey. I suspect that most of us have been down the route highlighted by Diane and have used the techniques set out in various replies. So at the risk of teaching most of you how to suck eggs what can we glean from this. 1. The IGI is an index, riddled with mis-transcriptions, missing entries, missing parish registers and finally someone else's thoughts on where there ancestors should appear. 2. You cannot avoid looking at the original registers, which contain that element missing from the IGI - namely burials 3. Whilst we all will probably have a family missing from one census, the chances of them missing from a whole range is most unlikely. 4. The entries on the census returns or GRO indexes were the first transcription, this time of what the enumerator or registrar thought he heard, with little chance of it being corrected by an illiterate ancestor. 5. The indexes on Ancestry or other census look up sites are another persons attempt to decide what the trained spider that the enumerator used to crawl across the page was really trying to tell us. 6. Lateral thinking is essential - you might know the 21st century spelling of your name, or how it is pronounced, but put yourself in the place of the people who spoke the word, heard the word and wrote the word down 7. If you really cannot find them in the census indexes try using searches on forenames - long winded, but can be very worthwhile 8. If like me you have a fairly uncommon name, write down all the options you can think of, then add some more Lesson over, but no doubt others can add some other hard learned thoughts regards Alf FANTHAM Kings Norton

Yes and as FROGGETT on the Warwickshire Ancestors Version, which can be assessed for free on www.hunimex.com/warwick There is a search engine provided for you - so not a lot of effort is required. Sometimes wonder why we bothered putting the 1841 and '91 online if no-one uses it anymore. Dont mention the 1861 - I am still trying to convince myself that I am not wasting my precious time plus that of the 50 volunteers still transcribing the remaining 33 pieces. snarl --------- Wendy Boland Co-ordinator Warwickshire 1841 1861 census and FreeREG Transcription Teams . They are transcribed on Ancestry as Huggett on the 1841 census Still at Engine St