I just wondered how many people knew that the Records Office at Myddleton Street in London is closing - in fact the ground floor closed this week, and all those huge ledgers have been shipped off for storage in Dorset, never to be seen again. What's more - the promised on line version has been delayed - so it's microfiche only until 2009. Still - I guess most of us are already using 3rd party on line resources but it's a shame for those who made visiting the GRO a 'day out' and for visitors from abroad. Also for meeting up with more experienced researchers. Ah well. Progress! But I'm sure many of us have nostalgic memories of jostling for space as we heaved the ledgers into position and the excitement shared breakthroughs were made. I think quite a few of the records at Kew have/ are being digitised too so the originals will be unavailable - and sometimes not all info transcribed. Sue

Many thanks to Helen, Joy, Wendy, Hunimex and Muriel whose mailings on and off list solved more than my Hodnell problem. Ron Duckett

You're more than welcome. What I didn't tell you, and you may not need to know, all the places you named were owned by Thomas Gybbes in the early 1600's through inheritance of his wife. I have the info if you need it. Joy in Georgia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Duckett" <r.duckett@one-name.org> To: <warwick@rootsweb.com> Cc: <hverrall@ihug.co.nz>; <joy1982@windstream.net>; <wendy.boland@bigpond.com>; <ptrepess@gmail.com>; <pollyp@xtra.co.nz> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 4:25 PM Subject: Hodnell > Many thanks to Helen, Joy, Wendy, Hunimex and Muriel > whose mailings on and off list solved more than my Hodnell problem. > > Ron Duckett >

Norma You may be interested in Martyn Parsons' website, which has some information on Sheepy and neighbouring border villages. Ratcliffe Culey seems to have had some DEEMINGS. http://www.mdlp.co.uk/resources/Sheepy/index.htm Regards Ellen Spence David Franks ITC <df10@cam.ac.uk> wrote: Following on from the Paul's mail reporting the 1851 LDS transcription as Sheepy, I looked again at the image, and I could easily accept Sheepy, that is, Sheepy Magna. I suppose, following common practice, he would have referred to his birthplace just as Sheepy. The apparent crossing of the second character is a worry though. However, if you can find John Deeming in the Sheepy Magna baptism register, or a near parish, it will confirm it. David NORMADIANE@aol.com wrote: > > Hello Listers. > > Could I once again enlist your help in a census entry. > > The information I require is the birth place of John Deeming found on the > 1851 at Grendon > HO107; Piece: 2064; Folio: 164; Page: 3; GSU roll: 87323. > > The entries are > John Deeming born 1775 Leicestershire and what has been transcribed as Stupy? > Alice Deeming wife 1776 Austy Warwickshire which I think should be Ansty > Ann Bell 1811 Baddesley. > > I know some of you are extremely good at reading these bad entries. Would > someone please have a look and see what they make of the entries please, I would > be very grateful > > Thanking you > Norma > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- DF Consultancy 10 Searle Street Cambridge CB4 3DB ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I don’t often ask for anything, but is there anyone on the list who has the marriage records or a transcript thereof for St Andrew Rugby and would be willing to look up some details (if any) of a few marriages for me? If so, please contact me off-list. Many thanks. MAR in France

G'day Sorry to have to use the List for this-it's a last resort ! A plea for the 1861 volunteers who have been allocated a District or a Piece to work on PLEASE contact me with a progress report. Several people are not responding to my emails and I need to know if you are still able to transcribe or wish me to re-allocate your work. Anthea Christine Trudi Lynda Jean Keith Pam Sheila I have not heard from you ! Flogging time is approaching. Thank you Wendy Co-ordinator Warwickshire 1861 census and FreeREG Transcription Teams

That wasn't bad - 15 hours to get my answer to Norma about the 1851 Census thru to the list . Ann No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1096 - Release Date: 27/10/2007 11:02 AM

Speaking of Erdington, the top item on the local news when I was in Warwickshire a couple of weeks ago was the fire (thought to be arson) that completely gutted the parish church of St Barnabas. If your ancestors were baptized or married at that Victorian church you may be interested to see a little video on the "Birmingham Mail" site (just Google for Erdington parish church fire) - though the journalist mistakenly places 1850 in the 18th c! MAR in France. > Message du 27/10/07 20:41 > De : "Hunimex - Gmail Account" > A : "Warwick list" > Copie à : > Objet : [WAR] New 1861 FreeCEN data posted > > Hi All, > > I have just posted RG092185 - Aston (Erdington) on my website - many thanks > to Wendy for transcribing this data > > As usual, link form the index page for 1861 - > www.hunimex.com/warwick/freecens/1861/index_1861.html > > Happy Hunting > > Pickard Trepess > Nagykanizsa, Hungary > > >--- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > maraix

Genie is a program used by the census volunteers for FreeCEN- I guess I can look forward to hundreds more people volunteering to help me complete the 1861 for Warwickshire so they can legitimately download the program ! Cheers Wendy I would add that Genie is invaluable for its listings of placenemes. It also has a county option which further narrows down the field. Genie can be downloaded for free, as can Parloc, the parish locator.

As OPC of Ansley- I have the Ansley PRs and have transcribed the years required - The transcriptions are on PPP http://www.hunimex.com/warwick/bmd/bmd_indx.html - They do NOT confirm that the DEEMING family in Ansley was connected to Sheepy - I am not surprised that no sign of a baptism or marriage is found for John- Leicestershire records are BTs for the most part and many years are missing. Let me know if you need more info from the PRS for Ansley . Cheers wendy I think we can agree that all transcriptions are difficult to be certain about. It would help if we could find John DEEMING's baptism or marriage, but both the IGI and VRI draw a blank on these.

Hi Jacqui.... The address is Craven Terrace, All Saints.. Craven Street is in Chapel Fields, off Allesley Old Road..... quite a way away. Best wishes Carole -----Original Message----- From: warwick-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:warwick-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of selkie Sent: 28 October 2007 01:20 To: warwick@rootsweb.com Subject: [WAR] Help please. Hello, I have a print out of the 1901 census and it shows John Gillings married to Camille Scheer. (second wife.) family is Lilly (who seems to have moved from niece to daughter) Andre aged 6 born Rugby George aged 4 born Rugby Harry aged 1 (my husbands grandfather.) Born Coventry and all the family lliving at at 12 Craven Street Gosford Fields in 1901. Can anybody shed any light on this family for me please. We have a war photograph of the three brothers 1914-1918 and it clearly says George Harry and THOMAS. Harry was born on 26th June 1898. However I cannot find any record of Thomas who looks about aged 13 which seems very young to be in the army. I'm researching Camille Scheer from Boulogne on a french genealogy site. -- Best regards, Jacqui ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.9/1067 - Release Date: 12/10/2007 18:02 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.9/1067 - Release Date: 12/10/2007 18:02

Hi Fellow Listers, To David's and Mar's list of suggestions I would add that Genie is invaluable for its listings of placenemes. It also has a county option which further narrows down the field. Genie can be downloaded for free, as can Parloc, the parish locator. There are other things you can do if you have got to the hair tearing stage. I used to look at the censuses on PPP---and now thanks to my town library I can add Ancestry to the equation. I also browsed the relevant years doing a surname search on Free BMD and then if lucky checked the area the registration district covered. I am sure when you put your mind to it you can think of more. It is amazing how inventive one can get when desperate. Of course transcribers, not of the locality, or not with English as their first language were at a great disadvantage. English placenames are amazing in their variety---some quite unbelievable! Re the latter it sometimes happened after an abortive session to have the solution pop up into my mind, as a half remembered memory surfaced---or wake up in the middle of the night with the solution! I liked David's example of the enumerator's stab at Llangollen----the spelling of which shows that the speaker pronounced the Welsh "double ll" correctly. Solving badly written image pages is a challenge and can be fun, if you don't let it "get to you". I really enjoyed this thread as it was such a change to the usual look-ups. I hope that some more comes forth! Regards, Muriel

Hello, I have a print out of the 1901 census and it shows John Gillings married to Camille Scheer. (second wife.) family is Lilly (who seems to have moved from niece to daughter) Andre aged 6 born Rugby George aged 4 born Rugby Harry aged 1 (my husbands grandfather.) Born Coventry and all the family lliving at at 12 Craven Street Gosford Fields in 1901. Can anybody shed any light on this family for me please. We have a war photograph of the three brothers 1914-1918 and it clearly says George Harry and THOMAS. Harry was born on 26th June 1898. However I cannot find any record of Thomas who looks about aged 13 which seems very young to be in the army. I'm researching Camille Scheer from Boulogne on a french genealogy site. -- Best regards, Jacqui

Hi Norma The best I can come up with is Sheepy - there is a Sheepy Magna and a Sheepy Parva in Leicestershire. Perhaps it was abbreviated to Sheepy? The other place is definitely Ansty. Regards Ann Australia No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1095 - Release Date: 26/10/2007 7:54 PM

This probably has no bearing on the current discussion and is completely circumstantial but will add it into the mix- I am quite sure that a Deeming was a witness to an 1844 ALCOCK-LOUD marriage in my family at the Maxstoke Church. The Alcocks were at one point in Sheepy Magna; then in the general Maxstoke area; one record showed Grendon as a location for them. I am not sure where the certificate is at this moment but it might....?? have been a Mary Deeming. Anne in Aurora IL ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Hi All, I have just posted RG092185 - Aston (Erdington) on my website - many thanks to Wendy for transcribing this data As usual, link form the index page for 1861 - www.hunimex.com/warwick/freecens/1861/index_1861.html Happy Hunting Pickard Trepess Nagykanizsa, Hungary

Except the assumptions in the last point can mislead. I have someone in a south Warwickshire parish described in a census as born in Barton. The assumption might be that this is Barton-on-the-Heath, 4 miles away, but in fact she was baptised in Steeple Barton, OXF, 10 miles away, in one of the cluster of villages sometimes collectively known as Barton. David ramaix wrote: > > Few, if any, can be familiar with every place name in Britain, especially as pronounced locally or misheard or mispelt by enumerators, but for a start it’s always worth > > (1) Checking a later or an earlier census (except the 1841) to see if you can find the person’s birthplace written more clearly (unless they are dead, of course!) > (2) Using the free Parish Locator software to search for parishes within a radius of the place of the census if you are dealing with the same or a bordering county (Sheepy Magna would have shown up within 10 miles of Grendon, for example) > (3) Doing a quick Google search or checking the Ordnance Survey map online (also free) to see if you can find a likely name in the right county > (4) Remembering that it’s very common for people to shorten local names, all the more so if they have Latin or Frenchified handles and when there’s no need to distinguish them from another place of the same name in a different part of the country. No-one in Warwickshire will imagine you want to go to Stratford in London or to Stony Stratford (and even less likely to Stratford, Ontario) if you ask the way to Stratford. > > MAR in France > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- David Franks, Cambridge, England Researching Castle and Tallis, Warwickshire and Oxfordshire, and Thomas Castle, convict transported to Van Diemen’s Land Warwickshire Online Parish Clerks http://www.hunimex.com/warwick/opc/opc.html

Hi Norma Perhaps the place of birth for John is misleading? Could it be an error on the part of the enumerator, easily done whilst copying the householders form, perhaps the birthplace on the line above has been transposed with Johns? In 1841 both John and Alice are enumerated in Whittington, Grendon, both are born in County As is Ann BALL who is enumerated at the same address with an Elizabeth BALL aged 10 (presumably her daughter?) The same Ann BALL is enumerated with John and Alice in 1851 Ann's birthplace in 1851 is given as Badesley Although I do not see a possible marriage on the IGI there are the following children born to a John and Alice 1. THOMAS DEMINGS - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 13 APR 1804 Baddesley Ensor, Warwick, England 2. JOHN DEMING - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 15 NOV 1801 Baddesley Ensor, Warwick, England 3. RICHARD DEMING - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 12 AUG 1808 Baddesley Ensor, Warwick, England 4. SARAH DEMING - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 27 DEC 1799 Baddesley Ensor, Warwick, England 5. MARY DEMING - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 10 APR 1806 Baddesley Ensor, Warwick, England 6. ANNE DEMING - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 08 JAN 1811 Baddesley Ensor, Warwick, England There are deaths registered for both John and Alice in Atherstone between 1851 and 1861 I shall send the 1841 over with a copy of this as posts seem to be taking many hours/days to reach the list (if they ever get there) Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) > > Hello Listers. > > Could I once again enlist your help in a census entry. > > The information I require is the birth place of John Deeming found on the > 1851 at Grendon > HO107; Piece: 2064; Folio: 164; Page: 3; GSU roll: 87323. > > The entries are > John Deeming born 1775 Leicestershire and what has been transcribed as > Stupy? > Alice Deeming wife 1776 Austy Warwickshire which I think should be Ansty > Ann Bell 1811 Baddesley. > > I know some of you are extremely good at reading these bad entries. Would > someone please have a look and see what they make of the entries please, I > would > be very grateful > > Thanking you > Norma

Few, if any, can be familiar with every place name in Britain, especially as pronounced locally or misheard or mispelt by enumerators, but for a start it’s always worth (1) Checking a later or an earlier census (except the 1841) to see if you can find the person’s birthplace written more clearly (unless they are dead, of course!) (2) Using the free Parish Locator software to search for parishes within a radius of the place of the census if you are dealing with the same or a bordering county (Sheepy Magna would have shown up within 10 miles of Grendon, for example) (3) Doing a quick Google search or checking the Ordnance Survey map online (also free) to see if you can find a likely name in the right county (4) Remembering that it’s very common for people to shorten local names, all the more so if they have Latin or Frenchified handles and when there’s no need to distinguish them from another place of the same name in a different part of the country. No-one in Warwickshire will imagine you want to go to Stratford in London or to Stony Stratford (and even less likely to Stratford, Ontario) if you ask the way to Stratford. MAR in France

David: I think we can agree that all transcriptions are difficult to be certain about. It would help if we could find John DEEMING's baptism or marriage, but both the IGI and VRI draw a blank on these. My own view is that John was definitely born at Sheepy. Alice's birthplace could read Ansley (which I favour) or Austry (but not Austrey - there aren't enough letters) and both are reasonably close to Grendon. Interestingly, there's 13 DEEMINGs living in Ansley in 1851 and none in Austrey. One of the 13 is a John DEEMING, aged 50. He may well be John and Alice's son. His wife Mary was clearly born Sheepy Leicestershire. Not conclusive, but strong circumstantial evidence in favour of Sheepy / Ansley. Regards Paul Prescott ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Franks OPC" <df10@cam.ac.uk> To: "Paul Prescott" <paul@toranean.demon.co.uk> Cc: <NORMADIANE@aol.com>; <warwick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 2:32 PM Subject: Re: [WAR] Badly written census entry > I'm quite prepared to believe that this is Sheepy, but I don't agree about > the crossing. The crossing on this page, as far as I can see from the > image, occurs only where a t is plausible (apart from Sheepy, if it is > Sheepy). It doesn't occur in any names that definitely do not have a t. > And the second place name on this page has an r after what I think is a t, > and so must be Austrey, not Ansley. The crossing could be a mark made by > a clerk, but if so it's odd that it only occurs where a t is plausible. > In the image that I am looking at (Ancestry) the 'crossing' in > Leicestershire Sheepy does not appear to be continuous, but goes through > the t of Leicestershire and does not appear to join up with the crossing > over Sheepy. Also, two of the entries for Atherstone (three on this page) > have the word Atherstone not in the where born column but in the last > column (whether blind or deaf and dumb) because the enumerator has written > Warwickshire so that if fills the whole of the where born column. (The > third entry manages to fit Atherstone in the where born column as well as > Warwickshire, and the crossing is there in the where born column.) If it > was the mark of a clerk adding something up, it's odd that it doesn't > always occur in the same column. The faint crossing of t also occurs in > the name and relationship columns (mother, visitor). On this page the ts > of the family name Garratt are crossed quite strongly, but the faint > crossing of the t occurs in names on other pages. > > The previous page shows the same features, including the entry that I > interpreted as Wales N Langothelyn (presumably Llangollen heard as such by > the Grendon enumerator, and that has this form of faint crossing). > > However, it is possible that it is a clerk's mark, and I'm not sure that > these esoteric ramblings are of much use to Normadiane in the pursuit of > her (?) ancestor. > > David > > Paul Prescott wrote: >> David, Norma: >> >> The second character of "Sheepy" isn't crossed. If you look carefully, >> you will see that the apparent crossing is a fainter mark, probably put >> there later by the clerk totalling things up, It continues well to the >> left of "Sheepy", through "Leicestershire". Similar marks can be seen >> lower down the page, through "Ansley" (hence not "Anstey" , nor "Anstry") >> and through Atherstone". >> >> Sheepy is very close to Grindon, as are Ansley and Bad[d]esley. >> >> Regards >> >> Paul Prescott >> >> > > -- > David Franks, Cambridge, England > Researching Castle and Tallis, Warwickshire and Oxfordshire, and Thomas > Castle, convict transported to Van Diemen’s Land > Warwickshire Online Parish Clerks > http://www.hunimex.com/warwick/opc/opc.html >