Many thanks for this Wendy I will follow this up. Cheers from Valerie in sunny Sydney Please excuse the lateness of my reply as I have been having computer problems -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of WABoland Sent: Monday, 5 April 2010 8:58 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [WAR] Parish registers etc. Was Culloden Hi All I believe the record is from the Phillimores Transcription VOL1 Franciscan Registers- etc and the Book is available in Australia at the State Library of NSW-perhaps at other State Libraries - certainly the National Library in Canberra I expect. Worth doing a Library The transcription should also be available on CD to purchase. through one of the commercial companies. As with all transcriptions one should be careful about accepting it as gospel. The early registers combined baptisms marriage and burials on the same page-often using pieces of manuscript paper or whatever was handy, until late 1700s when pre printed registers were introduced. 1813 saw another change of format when more information was required. I cannot say for sure whether the RC churches had pre printed registers as I have not seen many of them. Non Conformist churches seem to have used small note books in the early years. So this may explain why ancestry.com lists it unde rboth baptisms and burials. Wendy Boland FreeREG Warwickshire coordinator- Looking for more transcriptions to put online for FREE on both the PPP and FreeREG databases. >But as to *where* the baptism took place - and why it's seemingly classified >as a burial - I cannot make any suggestions other than it was >apparently NOT >at Leamington, as that Catholic Congregation's Register doesn't start >until >1822. According to the IGI, the baptism took place at St Peter's Roman Catholic Church, Birmingham.

Steve: Manorial records are wonderful, and can get you back even further than parish registers, and/or add detail to your ancestors' lives. One entry can give three generations or more of a family tree. But - and it's a big but - they are written in an abbreviated form of medieval Latin, and often in a difficult hand. It's possible to master this, but it does take quite a while, even if you already have classical Latin. The chances of them being transcribed are very small, and of being online either in the original or transcribed are virtually nil. Good luck Paul On 10 April 2010 10:44, <[email protected]> wrote: > > Can anyone tell me if it is possible to have access (on-line?) to documents > held in the Birmingham archives? > > I have spotted on the A2A site that they hold the "Sheldon papers" that > include manorial records for Brailes in the 15th century. > > Having traced back a family to the early 1500s in that village, I'd love to > see if these archives can help me get back even further (especially if > they've been transcribed!) > > Grateful thanks for any advice that anyone can offer. > > Steve > List archives are at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Steve, I too have an interest in manorial records for Brailes and for the area around Cherington/Whichford/Stourton. Although I have a degree of doubt, I believe that I can possibly trace my Timms line back to a Richard Tymes and a Fraunces Eddes who married in Sutton under Brailes on November 28, 1579. I would be open to possibly jointly retaining a reasonably priced researcher. I previously had such a person and am willing to see if she is still available. Are you interested? Roger Timms To look at my tree, go to http://www.timms.ca and follow the links to my genealogy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 11:22 AM To: war[email protected] Subject: [WAR] Advice wanted on access to documents Can anyone tell me if it is possible to have access (on-line?) to documents held in the Birmingham archives? I have spotted on the A2A site that they hold the "Sheldon papers" that include manorial records for Brailes in the 15th century. Having traced back a family to the early 1500s in that village, I'd love to see if these archives can help me get back even further (especially if they've been transcribed!) Grateful thanks for any advice that anyone can offer. Steve List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Steve I admire your optimism ! :-) I would be most surprised if the documents you are after have been scanned much less transcribed I would have thought contacting the archives who hold them would be your best bet Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Can anyone tell me if it is possible to have access (on-line?) to > documents > held in the Birmingham archives? > > I have spotted on the A2A site that they hold the "Sheldon papers" that > include manorial records for Brailes in the 15th century. > > Having traced back a family to the early 1500s in that village, I'd love > to > see if these archives can help me get back even further (especially if > they've been transcribed!) > > Grateful thanks for any advice that anyone can offer. > > Steve

<<Can anyone tell me if it is possible to have access (on-line?) to documents held in the Birmingham archives? I have spotted on the A2A site that they hold the "Sheldon papers" that include manorial records for Brailes in the 15th century. Having traced back a family to the early 1500s in that village, I'd love to see if these archives can help me get back even further (especially if they've been transcribed!)>> I don't know anything about the Brailes manor court rolls specifically, but I will be amazed if they are accessible on-line. It would be best to ask Birmingham Archives direct, though ([email protected]). I'm also pretty sure they haven't been published, so your best chance at using them would be to get someone to photograph them digitally for you (Birmingham do allow photography of medieval manor court rolls, or they did two years ago when I photographed some there). But while court rolls of this period can be very informative once translated and explained, the originals are not easy to use - they're in Latin, written in a difficult hand (with nearly every word heavily abbreviated), and conceal their information behind terse formulaic phrasing whose significance is not always obvious. Matt Tompkins

Dear Gareth Thank you so much for this information, I did not know about this site,I've just finished wading through the registers and found all the EDDEN/EDDON entries. More pieces of the jigsaw! Kind regardsLynne ---------------------------------------- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 00:31:35 +0200 > Subject: [WAR] Re EDDEN > > Hi Lynne > The marriage records for Sutton under Brailes 1578 - 1812 are online at http://www.archive.org/details/catalogueofphill00phil In the search boxes enter Phillimore Gloucestershire and in the other, all media types. Volume 4 covers Sutton under Brailes which starts on page 140 with the first marriage in 1578 being possibly one of your clan. > You can also look at the catalogue for other villages that were transcribed by Phillimore ( they are transcriptions from the original parish registers, but with all transcriptions it is in the eye of the reader what he writes ). > HTH a bit > Cheers for now > Gareth > List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969

Can anyone tell me if it is possible to have access (on-line?) to documents held in the Birmingham archives? I have spotted on the A2A site that they hold the "Sheldon papers" that include manorial records for Brailes in the 15th century. Having traced back a family to the early 1500s in that village, I'd love to see if these archives can help me get back even further (especially if they've been transcribed!) Grateful thanks for any advice that anyone can offer. Steve

Not that I am aware of, but you could try the House of Commons Records Office who have copies of the Coventry and surrounding area Protestation Rolls for 1642. David Judd -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of lynne scaife Sent: 08 April 2010 21:14 To: warwick new list Subject: [WAR] Battle of Edge Hill 1642 Dear All Can any one advise me if there is a list of the muster rolls for the battle of Edge Hill in 1642? ThanksLynne _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Matt and all who have replied. Thanks for the information.  What a pity the rolls probably haven't survived, but I'll certainly check out if anything has. Kind regardsLynne ---------------------------------------- > To: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 03:22:48 -0400 > From: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [WAR] Battle of Edge Hill 1642 > > > < > Edge Hill in 1642?>> > > > I'm afraid it's extremely unlikely that any muster rolls have survived from the Edgehill armies (in fact I think it's the case that there are no muster rolls from the entire Civil War period, except some lists of officers in the Parliamentary army at the end of the war). > > Matt > > List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you’re up to on Facebook. http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/see-it-in-action/social-network-basics.aspx?ocid=PID23461::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-xm:SI_SB_2:092009

Can anyone tell me if it is possible to have access (on-line?) to documents held in the Birmingham archives? I have spotted on the A2A site that they hold the "Sheldon papers" that include manorial records for Brailes in the 15th century. Having traced back a family to the early 1500s in that village, I'd love to see if these archives can help me get back even further (especially if they've been transcribed!) Grateful thanks for any advice that anyone can offer. Steve

I looked at a muster list at Derbyshire RO at Matlock. They have a lot of the papers relating to Col Sir John Gell one of the parliamentarians in the Civil War which includes diaries, letters and muster lists relating to Sir John's Civil War. Helena The Bladon web site www.bladon.me.uk Search the Past - Historical Research www.search-the-past.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 09 April 2010 08:23 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [WAR] Battle of Edge Hill 1642 <<Can any one advise me if there is a list of the muster rolls for the battle of Edge Hill in 1642?>> I'm afraid it's extremely unlikely that any muster rolls have survived from the Edgehill armies (in fact I think it's the case that there are no muster rolls from the entire Civil War period, except some lists of officers in the Parliamentary army at the end of the war). Matt List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

<<Can any one advise me if there is a list of the muster rolls for the battle of Edge Hill in 1642?>> I'm afraid it's extremely unlikely that any muster rolls have survived from the Edgehill armies (in fact I think it's the case that there are no muster rolls from the entire Civil War period, except some lists of officers in the Parliamentary army at the end of the war). Matt

Hi Lynne The marriage records for Sutton under Brailes 1578 - 1812 are online at http://www.archive.org/details/catalogueofphill00phil In the search boxes enter Phillimore Gloucestershire and in the other, all media types. Volume 4 covers Sutton under Brailes which starts on page 140 with the first marriage in 1578 being possibly one of your clan. You can also look at the catalogue for other villages that were transcribed by Phillimore ( they are transcriptions from the original parish registers, but with all transcriptions it is in the eye of the reader what he writes ). HTH a bit Cheers for now Gareth

Dear All Can any one advise me if there is a list of the muster rolls for the battle of Edge Hill in 1642? ThanksLynne _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969

Glad to be of help, Lynne. As quite a few of my father's line hailed from Gloucestershire and Campden in particular, I have quite a few parish register & Phillimore's CDs which does help in the research - vbg!! You can order certificates online at www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ giving the details I found for you. Unfortunately, I believe the price has just increased to £9.25 for each certificate. Let me know if I can be any further help. Janet > I'll take your advise about ordering the marriage certificates, thanks for > all the reference numbers.I've never ordered one before though, can any > one tell me where I get them from please?

I'm new to this forum and have a lost ancestor, Isaac (Isiack) Johns. He was born in Hatton/Warwick on 11 December 1803, to parents Richard Johns and Ann Fairfax, and christened 26 December in Hatton. He had at least two brother brothers, Thomas and William, and a sister, Elioner. In 1827, Isaac and Lydia Warrilow had a daughter (Ellen ) who was baptised twice! Firstly as Ellen Warrilow, 21 November 1827 in Henley-in-Arden, and later as Ellen Johns, on 8 June 1828 in Hatton. I can trace Lydia and Ellen right through to the 1890s and their deaths, but can find no record of Isaac Johns after the baptism of his daughter; not in the Censuses (including workhouses) or BMD records. Later Census records for Lydia clearly record her unmarried and Ellen was raised by her Uncle Thomas before marrying, so I presume that Lydia and Isaac parted company after the birth of their daughter. Any ideas of what might have happened to Isaac? Before anyone gets too excited, IGI records show there were two Isaac Johns born around this time and in this area. The other Isaac Johns was born 7 January 1807 to Thomas and Anne Johns, and baptised 29 November in Lapworth, Warwickshire. He married a Sarah Anne Clarke of Tanworth in 1833, and I believe died in 1838 and is the Isaac Johns with a BMD GRO death entry. Any help received gratefully. Paul Jackson (born in Henley-in-Arden, now of Canberra).

Hello Janet Well well, wonders never cease. Thank you so much for your reply and help. Yes, I've just found Joseph and Mary MARSHALL on the 1841 census as you said, I never thought to search for MARSHALL. They say 2 heads are better than 1! I'll take your advise about ordering the marriage certificates, thanks for all the reference numbers.I've never ordered one before though, can any one tell me where I get them from please? You've put everything into perspective for me in less than 24 hours - I've been working on this one (on and off) for about 2 years. Thanks again and regards. Lynne Scaife > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 12:09:52 +0100 > Subject: Re: [WAR] Reintroducing my interests, EDDEN/SKUCE Brailes > > Hello Lynne, > > According to Hugh Wallis's IGI site (all extracted records so are more > liable to be correct), there are 3 baptisms to James & Mary EDDEN at > Brailes: > > 5 December 1819 John EDDEN > 4 November 1821 Elizabeth EDDEN > 30 November 1823 James EDDEN > > The best way to confirm whether they are brothers would be to buy both James > & John's marriage certificates and see if the father's name & occupation is > the same on both. John's marriage was registered at Shipston on Stour reg > district in the June qtr 1843, vol 11, page 475 and James EDEN's marriage > registration was at Shipston in the December qtr 1842, vol 11, page 486 - > note the difference in spelling when ordering. > > The EDDEN/EDENs certainly seem to go a long way back in Brailes and there is > a James baptised on 14 March 1787 at Brailes, parents John EDEN & Hannah who > could be your James snr. > > I think you may find that James snr died prior to 1826, as there is an > extracted marriage record on Hugh Wallis's site of a Mary EDEN to a Joseph > MARSHALL on 5 June 1826 at Brailes which probably explains why you cannot > find Mary under the surname of EDDEN (or variants) in the 1841 census. If > Mary EDDEN was left with 3 young children to bring up, it is quite likely > that she would have remarried fairly soon after the death of her first > husband. This looks as if it could be Mary & Joseph MARSHALL in the 1841 > census of Brailes: > > HO107/1131/3, folio 20, page 1 > Warrin House > > Joseph MARSHALL 35 Ag Lab > Mary do 45 > Thomas do 12 > Hannah do 10 > Mary do 7 > > All born in the county except Mary. > > Mary looks as if sahe was born c1795 in Chipping Campden, Gloucestershire > according to the 1851 census of Brailes and she is still alive living in > Brailes in 1871 census. And lo and behold on the Phillimores Marriage Index > of Chipping Campden is the following: > > 17 September 1818 at Chipping Campden by Banns James EDEN of Brailes, > Warwickshire & Mary HEWINGS > > Add to that an extracted LDS baptism at Chipping Campden on 4 May 1794 of a > Mary HEWINS, parents John & Elizabeth which fits in very well with Mary > MARSHALL's birth date on the 1851 census. > > HTH > > Janet > > > > > > > Subject: [WAR] Reintroducing my interests, EDDEN/SKUCE Brailes > > > > It's always niggled me why parent listed when they left school is Mary > > EDDEN for John but Mary MARSHALL for James. Are they different mothers, > > or was MARSHALL her maiden name, or was Mary MARSHALL an Aunt or other > > family member. I can find no marriage record for James EDDEN and a Mary > > at all. The 2 different surnames for the mother further worries me that > > James and John aren't brothers. > > List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969

Hello Lynne, According to Hugh Wallis's IGI site (all extracted records so are more liable to be correct), there are 3 baptisms to James & Mary EDDEN at Brailes: 5 December 1819 John EDDEN 4 November 1821 Elizabeth EDDEN 30 November 1823 James EDDEN The best way to confirm whether they are brothers would be to buy both James & John's marriage certificates and see if the father's name & occupation is the same on both. John's marriage was registered at Shipston on Stour reg district in the June qtr 1843, vol 11, page 475 and James EDEN's marriage registration was at Shipston in the December qtr 1842, vol 11, page 486 - note the difference in spelling when ordering. The EDDEN/EDENs certainly seem to go a long way back in Brailes and there is a James baptised on 14 March 1787 at Brailes, parents John EDEN & Hannah who could be your James snr. I think you may find that James snr died prior to 1826, as there is an extracted marriage record on Hugh Wallis's site of a Mary EDEN to a Joseph MARSHALL on 5 June 1826 at Brailes which probably explains why you cannot find Mary under the surname of EDDEN (or variants) in the 1841 census. If Mary EDDEN was left with 3 young children to bring up, it is quite likely that she would have remarried fairly soon after the death of her first husband. This looks as if it could be Mary & Joseph MARSHALL in the 1841 census of Brailes: HO107/1131/3, folio 20, page 1 Warrin House Joseph MARSHALL 35 Ag Lab Mary do 45 Thomas do 12 Hannah do 10 Mary do 7 All born in the county except Mary. Mary looks as if sahe was born c1795 in Chipping Campden, Gloucestershire according to the 1851 census of Brailes and she is still alive living in Brailes in 1871 census. And lo and behold on the Phillimores Marriage Index of Chipping Campden is the following: 17 September 1818 at Chipping Campden by Banns James EDEN of Brailes, Warwickshire & Mary HEWINGS Add to that an extracted LDS baptism at Chipping Campden on 4 May 1794 of a Mary HEWINS, parents John & Elizabeth which fits in very well with Mary MARSHALL's birth date on the 1851 census. HTH Janet Subject: [WAR] Reintroducing my interests, EDDEN/SKUCE Brailes > It's always niggled me why parent listed when they left school is Mary > EDDEN for John but Mary MARSHALL for James. Are they different mothers, > or was MARSHALL her maiden name, or was Mary MARSHALL an Aunt or other > family member. I can find no marriage record for James EDDEN and a Mary > at all. The 2 different surnames for the mother further worries me that > James and John aren't brothers.

Dear All I have restarted my research of the above, having been away from it for a good 12 months. I have found invaluable information on the 1911 census, eg. my mother's favorite Uncle (paternal) couldn't read and write, ie. signed his name with an "x", and saw the signature of my maternal grand mother, Ellen Louisa EDDEN nee SKUCE. I knew she could read and write well, as I not only remember her very well, but I know she left school at 14 and went into service at The George Hotel in Brailes. I've also done further research with all the census back to 1841, but hit another stumbling block with my brick walls ie. the 1841 census' which would give me most information, wouldn't you just know it - I can't positively find them! My brick walls are: My 2 x great grandfather, John EDDEN, c. 05 12 1819 in Brailes, married Elizabeth DAVIS of Crimscote on 06 06 1843, and,His brother (well I assume he is his brother, as on the LDF records, both parents are listed as the same),James EDDEN c. 30 11 1823 Brailes, married Harriet WEBSTER on 12 12 1842, and their parents:James and Mary EDDEN (again, from the LDS records). Here are my worries about John and James being brothers. According to the Brailes school registers: John EDDEN, date of birth 1820, admitted 31 05 1825, Lower Brailes, parent Mary EDDEN, last attended May 1830, gone to labour, poor widow.James EDDEN, date of birth 1823, admitted 14 12 1819, Lower Brailes, parent Mary MARSHALL, (no date last attended),father dead, gone Apprentice to Warwick. Therefore, we know that their father James EDDEN, (circa 1794 or thereabouts possibly), was dead by May 1830. It's always niggled me why parent listed when they left school is Mary EDDEN for John but Mary MARSHALL for James. Are they different mothers, or was MARSHALL her maiden name, or was Mary MARSHALL an Aunt or other family member. I can find no marriage record for James EDDEN and a Mary at all. The 2 different surnames for the mother further worries me that James and John aren't brothers. John and Elizabeth EDDEN appear on the 1851 census with 3 children, census address Epwell, Oxon, birth place, Brailes, Warks, occupation Ag Lab. (Ag Lab fits in with most of my EDDENs). James and Harriet EDDEN appear on the 1851 census with 9 children, census address 161 Holbourne Street, Shipston on Stour, birth place, Brailes, occupation Tailor. (Tailor doesn't, but, it does make sense from the school registers "gone Apprentice to Warwick" that he would end up with a proper trade, eg. Tailor.) Because James EDDEN senior was dead by 1830, there's no chance of finding him on any census, so I searched for Mary EDDEN or MARSHALL on the 1841, however, I have no idea of her date of birth, I am presuming born round about 1794 using the old maxim they usually married at about 25, however, this isn't necessarily so. I can not find her on the 1841 or 1851, so perhaps she was dead too. If anyone can offer me any advice as to a possible way forward, I would very much appreciate any help. Kind regardsLynne Scaife, in sunny Tenerife. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969

Hi All I believe the record is from the Phillimores Transcription VOL1 Franciscan Registers- etc and the Book is available in Australia at the State Library of NSW-perhaps at other State Libraries - certainly the National Library in Canberra I expect. Worth doing a Library The transcription should also be available on CD to purchase. through one of the commercial companies. As with all transcriptions one should be careful about accepting it as gospel. The early registers combined baptisms marriage and burials on the same page-often using pieces of manuscript paper or whatever was handy, until late 1700s when pre printed registers were introduced. 1813 saw another change of format when more information was required. I cannot say for sure whether the RC churches had pre printed registers as I have not seen many of them. Non Conformist churches seem to have used small note books in the early years. So this may explain why ancestry.com lists it unde rboth baptisms and burials. Wendy Boland FreeREG Warwickshire coordinator- Looking for more transcriptions to put online for FREE on both the PPP and FreeREG databases. >But as to *where* the baptism took place - and why it's seemingly classified >as a burial - I cannot make any suggestions other than it was apparently NOT >at Leamington, as that Catholic Congregation's Register doesn't start until >1822. According to the IGI, the baptism took place at St Peter's Roman Catholic Church, Birmingham.