Hi Matt, > Gus, the kind of bonds you're describing - administration bonds - were not > bonds of indemnity. True indeed... I included them as an additional example solely because the wording of the opening Latin paragraphs of the printed forms for them and for Marriage Licences from 1690+/-20ish were word-for-word identical - at least for those in Worcester Diocese which then included about half of Warwickshire - and these are the most-likely types of such documents that the majority of us are likely to encounter. But thanks to your link to the shakespeare site I realised I had a copy of an Indemnity to Stratford Poor Law Guardians. The difference is that this was issued by Bromsgrove Guardians to cover one of their inhabitants wanting to take up residence in Stratford in 1719. It would've been a better example to've used.... Gus ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [WAR] BONDS OF IDENTITY > > <<From what you give below - and the date - these are almost certain to be > Bonds of Indemnity, as Matt suggested. > > They were most usually requested as part of obtaining a Marriage Licence > or > becoming Administrator of an Estate where the deceased had died without > leaving a valid Will. [And, in passing, would seem to be one of the > earliest > examples of the labour-saving 'pre-printed form'.] > > The sums stated were not paid. They only became payable - to the Bishop > (presumably to recompense him for his embarrassment) - should it transpire > that the statements made when applying for the marriage licence were > untrue, > or if the Administrator failed in his duties. > > Think of them as as being - roughly - "Guarantees of Truthfulness or Good > Behaviour".>> > > > Gus, the kind of bonds you're describing - administration bonds - were not > bonds of indemnity. There were many types of bond, and they did not all > enforce an obligation to indemnify against loss - many were intended to > enforce some other kind of behaviour. The obligation enforced by > administration bonds was to administer the deceased person's estate > properly and honestly. If this was not done the diocese would not suffer > any loss (that would have been suffered by the intestate heirs) and the > payment to the diocese was not an indemnity but a penalty, designed to be > a more expensive, less attractive option than misadministration of the > estate. > > Matt > > List archives are at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Anne, >From what you give below - and the date - these are almost certain to be Bonds of Indemnity, as Matt suggested. They were most usually requested as part of obtaining a Marriage Licence or becoming Administrator of an Estate where the deceased had died without leaving a valid Will. [And, in passing, would seem to be one of the earliest examples of the labour-saving 'pre-printed form'.] The sums stated were not paid. They only became payable - to the Bishop (presumably to recompense him for his embarrassment) - should it transpire that the statements made when applying for the marriage licence were untrue, or if the Administrator failed in his duties. Think of them as as being - roughly - "Guarantees of Truthfulness or Good Behaviour". Gus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Chapman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 2:02 AM Subject: Re: [WAR] BONDS OF IDENTITY > Hello Matt, > My records were from the Midlands Historical Data -- Poor Law > Records. I found 5 records for some Horne records from Stratford on > Avon. Horne Family were from Bishopton. Horne is my maiden name. > There were payments of 40 pounds in 4 of the cases but 100 pounds in the > other in 1648. This would have been an absolute fortune back in those > days. Hope this clears it up for you. Anne > > [email protected] wrote: >> Hello Anne, >> >> I don't think I've ever heard of a Bond of Identity. If you saw it >> referred to in an original document, do you think you might have misread >> Bond of Indemnity? >> >> If not, can you supply some context for the term? Where have you seen >> references to it? >> >> Matt Tompkins >> >> >> > > List archives are at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Peter . somewhere in my memory fog , long ago this was answered ,this referred to a father from another village , indenturying his son in this village . Laurie ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Hirons To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 3:21 AM Subject: Re: [WAR] BONDS OF IDENTITY Could it possibly have something to do with Indentury - as in apprentices? Peter (just guessing) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:07 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [WAR] BONDS OF IDENTITY <<I am wondering if someone could help with an explanation of this term, used in the 1600's. I cannot find anything in my large dictionary and Google is bringing up rubbish for the term ie stealing identity and the like.>> Hello Anne, I don't think I've ever heard of a Bond of Identity. If you saw it referred to in an original document, do you think you might have misread Bond of Indemnity? If not, can you supply some context for the term? Where have you seen references to it? Matt Tompkins List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

<<From what you give below - and the date - these are almost certain to be Bonds of Indemnity, as Matt suggested. They were most usually requested as part of obtaining a Marriage Licence or becoming Administrator of an Estate where the deceased had died without leaving a valid Will. [And, in passing, would seem to be one of the earliest examples of the labour-saving 'pre-printed form'.] The sums stated were not paid. They only became payable - to the Bishop (presumably to recompense him for his embarrassment) - should it transpire that the statements made when applying for the marriage licence were untrue, or if the Administrator failed in his duties. Think of them as as being - roughly - "Guarantees of Truthfulness or Good Behaviour".>> Gus, the kind of bonds you're describing - administration bonds - were not bonds of indemnity. There were many types of bond, and they did not all enforce an obligation to indemnify against loss - many were intended to enforce some other kind of behaviour. The obligation enforced by administration bonds was to administer the deceased person's estate properly and honestly. If this was not done the diocese would not suffer any loss (that would have been suffered by the intestate heirs) and the payment to the diocese was not an indemnity but a penalty, designed to be a more expensive, less attractive option than misadministration of the estate. Matt

Yes, thank you Anne, that is indeed enough context to enable me to answer your question. English law knows of no Bonds of Identity, but Bonds of Indemnity were common, so I think it must just be a typographical error, or maybe the person who originally calendared these documents misread Indemnity for Identity (easily done if, as was common in those days, the first 'n' and the 'm' were left out). A Bond of Indemnity was just a document in which one person guaranteed to repay expenses incurred by another person in certain defined circumstances (that's the indemnity part) and bound himself to pay a specified sum if he did not repay them (that's the bond part - the amount specified in the bond was always a large one, much more than the expected liability under the indemnity, in order to give the indemnifying party an incentive to pay up under the indemnity). You'll find an explanation of how Bonds of Indemnity were used in 17th-century poor law administration in this website, which I think refers to the very records you have found (scroll down to Settlement Papers and Certificates): http://shakespeare.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=95&Itemid=95 Matt -----Original Message----- From: Anne Chapman <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 2:02 Subject: Re: [WAR] BONDS OF IDENTITY Hello Matt, My records were from the Midlands Historical Data -- Poor Law ecords. I found 5 records for some Horne records from Stratford on von. Horne Family were from Bishopton. Horne is my maiden name. here were payments of 40 pounds in 4 of the cases but 100 pounds in the ther in 1648. This would have been an absolute fortune back in those ays. Hope this clears it up for you. Anne [email protected] wrote: Hello Anne, I don't think I've ever heard of a Bond of Identity. If you saw it referred to n an original document, do you think you might have misread Bond of Indemnity? > If not, can you supply some context for the term? Where have you seen eferences to it? Matt Tompkins List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Sorry Peter, I should have known better. Colin. ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter J Richardson To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:23 PM Subject: [WAR] ADMIN: Re: Updates Please could those in the know reply to Denise or Hugh offlist. Regards Peter Richardson Warwick List Admin

Still here Denise! You can reach me on [email protected] Cheers Wendy Would you have an updated email for Wendy Boland? I'm trying to reach her about some info she sent me a while back. Denise

Could it possibly have something to do with Indentury - as in apprentices? Peter (just guessing) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:07 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [WAR] BONDS OF IDENTITY <<I am wondering if someone could help with an explanation of this term, used in the 1600's. I cannot find anything in my large dictionary and Google is bringing up rubbish for the term ie stealing identity and the like.>> Hello Anne, I don't think I've ever heard of a Bond of Identity. If you saw it referred to in an original document, do you think you might have misread Bond of Indemnity? If not, can you supply some context for the term? Where have you seen references to it? Matt Tompkins List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Denise, I am not sure if this is the current one but give it a try. [email protected] If not try this one. [email protected] Colin. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jestrrwolf To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [WAR] Updates Would you have an updated email for Wendy Boland? I'm trying to reach her about some info she sent me a while back. Denise --- On Fri, 6/18/10, hugh <[email protected]> wrote: > From: hugh <[email protected]> > Subject: [WAR] Updates > To: "list" <[email protected]> > Date: Friday, June 18, 2010, 7:13 PM > * > > Anyone got up to date email addresses for the following? > > > > Richard Patrick Young > > Michelle Brighton > > Geoff Nicholson > *hugh > papatoetoe, new zealand > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/ > http://www.google.com/profiles/winterscollection > List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message > List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Listers, I am wondering if someone could help with an explanation of this term, used in the 1600's. I cannot find anything in my large dictionary and Google is bringing up rubbish for the term ie stealing identity and the like. Anne

<<I am wondering if someone could help with an explanation of this term, used in the 1600's. I cannot find anything in my large dictionary and Google is bringing up rubbish for the term ie stealing identity and the like.>> Hello Anne, I don't think I've ever heard of a Bond of Identity. If you saw it referred to in an original document, do you think you might have misread Bond of Indemnity? If not, can you supply some context for the term? Where have you seen references to it? Matt Tompkins

Dear Listers Is there anyone on the Warwickshire list researching ancestry of an Arthur Elvins (my great great grandfather) who was born 28 March 1845 in Ipsley, Warwickshire/Worcestershire and baptised there on 27 April. His parents were Samuel Elvins and Ellen Milward? Thanks Paul from Canberra

Please could those in the know reply to Denise or Hugh offlist. Regards Peter Richardson Warwick List Admin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jestrrwolf" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:06 AM Subject: Re: [WAR] Updates > Would you have an updated email for Wendy Boland? I'm trying to reach her > about some info she sent me a while back. > > Denise > > > > --- On Fri, 6/18/10, hugh <[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: hugh <[email protected]> >> Subject: [WAR] Updates >> To: "list" <[email protected]> >> Date: Friday, June 18, 2010, 7:13 PM >> * >> >> Anyone got up to date email addresses for the following? >> >> >> >> Richard Patrick Young >> >> Michelle Brighton >> >> Geoff Nicholson >> *hugh >> papatoetoe, new zealand >> http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/ >> http://www.google.com/profiles/winterscollection >> List archives are at >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >> subject and the body of the message >> > > > > > List archives are at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Would you have an updated email for Wendy Boland? I'm trying to reach her about some info she sent me a while back. Denise --- On Fri, 6/18/10, hugh <[email protected]> wrote: > From: hugh <[email protected]> > Subject: [WAR] Updates > To: "list" <[email protected]> > Date: Friday, June 18, 2010, 7:13 PM > * > > Anyone got up to date email addresses for the following? > > > > Richard Patrick Young > > Michelle Brighton > > Geoff Nicholson > *hugh > papatoetoe, new zealand > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/ > http://www.google.com/profiles/winterscollection > List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >

* Anyone got up to date email addresses for the following? Richard Patrick Young Michelle Brighton Geoff Nicholson *hugh papatoetoe, new zealand http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/ http://www.google.com/profiles/winterscollection

Thanks for the info people sent regarding Crowleys Orphanage

Just a reminder in answer to a question asked that FMP's World Cup remains off-topic, despite the fact that it has been extended to 24 hour windows in an attempt to resolve their overload problems. http://www.findmypast.co.uk/world-cup.jsp is the link. I know that this is of interest to a number of list-members, but there are others who find promotional e-mails objectionable, so this will be the last message of this type even if FMP change things again before the end of the World Cup - so if you are interested or likely to become interested you should keep an eye on the site for yourselves from now until the World Cup ends. As before discussion on this topic is to be limited to Warwickshire items only. Regards Peter Richardson Warwick Admin

Richard HEMMINGS - Ch 14 FEB 1836 Grandborough, Warwick, England (C064961 1744 - 1844) s/o ##HARRIOTT HEMMINGS ##HARRIOTT HEMMINGS d/o MARTHA HEMMING ================================================================================= 1841 Census - Warwickshire HEMING, Harriott 1811 30yrs F Birmingham Warwickshire HEMING, Richard 1836 5 M Aston Warwickshire ===================================================================================== 1851 Census - Warwickshire ?? HEMMINGS, Louisa 1842 9yrs F Rugby Warwickshire ?? ?? HEMMING, Harriet 1808 43yrs F Stratford-On-Avon Warwickshire ?? ?? HEMMING, Richard 1834 17 M Solihull Warwickshire ?? =============================================================================== Louisa HEMMINGS (d/o Harriot HEMMINGS ) 1861 Census Lutterworth - Leicestershire Louisa Hemmings 20yrs Lutterworth, Lutterworth - Leicestershire.....?? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1861 Census.....Monks Kirby Leicestershire HEMMINGS Louisa 20y Monks Kirby Leicestershire Piece No RG9/2247 Folio 83 Schedule 28 Kind regards from - Maree S. Gordon, Matamata Waikato NZ <[email protected]> / SKYPE - matamatamaree ===================================================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Ellen" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 10:47 PM Subject: [WAR] HEMMINGS > If someone has sent me an email in the last week with the subject > "HEMMINGS > Grandborough" could you please resend it to me. I was cleaning out the > spam > box online on my internet provider while looking for mail that was there > by > error and as I clicked the delete button on a page full I suddenly saw > this > heading too late. > Regards > Victor > > List archives are at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

If someone has sent me an email in the last week with the subject "HEMMINGS Grandborough" could you please resend it to me. I was cleaning out the spam box online on my internet provider while looking for mail that was there by error and as I clicked the delete button on a page full I suddenly saw this heading too late. Regards Victor

Hi Cherrie I feel that you might get details of the St Martins entries if you were to place a request on the Birmingham History Forum http://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum.php Mike in Droitwich Gus Tysoe wrote: > Hi Cherrie, > > Further toPeter's posting, the IGI has the following extracted entries for > Birmingham St Martin... > > Marriages - 1801-11 > William JENKINS & Mary SPICER - 31 Dec 1804 > William Walker JENKINS & Mary SCUDAMORE - 3 Jan 1809 > > Baptisms - 1801-21 - parents William & Mary JENKINS > John William - 28 Jul 1800 > William - 10 Jun 1808 > William - 8 Feb 1811 [born 18 Oct 1809] > The last one being son of William Walker JENKINS > > Searching the full period for Baptisms of JENKINSes at B'ham St Martin > produced a further 7 children between 1800 and 1809 - all to William JENKINS > & Ann. > > thank you to all who offer help > regards > Cherrie from Oz > > > List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >