Thank you so much for your kind reply, Andrea. Yes, I do so agree that it is a standard need of ours to remember that there is no garantee on even "Proven " items, but when we have so many fine researchers that have what looks to me like a part of the puzzle it seems that this is the kind of thing that needs to be hashed out and either confirmed or negated to the best of the groups ability as a whole, not just it's seperate parts... I feel that the individuals have forgotten the whole, so to speak, in that our hobby has been enabled by the internet and our ability to 'find' each other, and we need to bring the contacts together in a way that all of us benefit. Just as i may find joe doe Warren that doesn't connect to me and I would place the info on the list with the source that i found, I would also hope that someone else would do the same for me. It is way too complicated for someone to say to me yes i know your jane doe warren, she was in Va in 1802 and then to not give me a source to go find??? the state of Virginia is one of our oldest and the documents alone that that state has is beyond most people's comprehension, and the written material that comes from that source material is growing at a pace that I personally can't keep up with, so I really need more clues ! I think more than anything I am frustrated with the wealth of tidbits that all of my Warren "Angels" threw at me with absolutely nothing to back them up... I Think I may have a way that we can have a little more ability to track down the sources, if we just remember to make notes to ourselves about where we get things. Right now for example, I have what I am calling The War of the Warrens... a researcher told me that William Warren born in Lunenburg VA in 1754 is NOT the father of Drury Warren the father of John J. Warren, b. 1808 but that William's< brother> Drury Warren b. 1756 married sarah jamison in 1807 and is the father. she did not cite a source for that information. Nor did she tell me who had given her the info ( just stuff her father has found out). As far as i can see this IS possible, but there are questions. If this is so, how have so many researchers said that Williams SON Drury Warren is the husband of Sarah Jamison, and father of John J. Warren, and WHAT source do they have for THIS information? Does anyone have Sarahs birth date/ birth place?> other children for William Warren's BROTHER Drury and Sarah? Is there any source documentation/ or citations online which can help us prove which Drury Warren was the father of John J. ? Other researchers swear that Drury Warren SR, son of William Warren was the father of John. To me this seems more reasonable, because of likely age at marriage etc, but i have no one who can tell me where or when drury warren SR was born, no one has any source documentation? Where have all the tidbits come from? that is my basic premis. Someone, at sometime, must have seen documentation, but only one person I have spoken to has said go to such and such courthouse ( or anyplace else except secondary evidence in the way of another researchers book) and get a copy of blank blank to see how it was figured out.... and the information i was told i could send for is not even of the person i am searching for!!! This is scary, to say the least. Somehow, at sometime, someone has put out a lot of small tidbits and no one seems to know where it came from, nor how to prove or disprove any of the info. I am trying to get the researchers of the line to pool info and decide if what they have is spurious, or likely and decide what is the best thing to begin a doc search on, and if no one else is working on my John J. Warren, that is fine, I am. I think that it needs to be decided to the best of the lines ability who was the mother of Thomas III Warren, since it looks like the info is that the second wife was not his mother. One researcher sent me a whole genfile of the descendents of Susan Greenleaf(e) Warren and another turned right around and said it is proven that she is totally Spurious, and gave another authors work as the Proof.... I want to be able to say Hey but so and so says... but what I have gotten so far is hurt feelings and people offended and no longer willing to share, and that is so sad. Two years ago someone sent me a peice of info saying that one of my ancestors had come over on a certain boat at a certain time, and i worked for over 6 months on the line and then found a doc that proved that this person could not be mine, even in the face of prior documentation and certs...and the doc i found was Primary evidence, from the person involved to his children, all named,and I found some still living, my gg aunt and uncle, and as soon as I got that I found so much on him, but the person who had sent me the info about the ship refused the evidence I wanted to send him, for free, because he had spent 10 years on the line...no matter that it was wrong!!! the funny thing is that just the other day i was looking for new researchers on the 'net, and the same person had a new website with the corrected info, but the Sources were not even cited, nor was my email available as a researcher, so I do not know if the person went after the docs and certs himself or if he just copied what i sent and didnt care if he had source docs or not.... anyway this has gotten long, so i just want to add that for a signature line when sharing i like to put in my sources in a short format... i.e: Secondary Sources you can search for: LDS IGI- lange, gloria (and any file numbers that apply), or Internet researcher Gloriamlh@juno.com 2003 or PIC thanks to Gloria Lange- gloriamlh@juno.com 2003 or Internet website Http://www etc Primary sources that I can scan and send: B/C gloria Lange D/C gloria Lange I have other sources if interested email me. (I just cut and copy this type of thing from a .txt file or I attach file if I have a good number of sources, after seeing if the party can accept attachments.) The thing that I have found helps me keep track more than any other single thing is that i use wordpad to make SURNAME DOC INDEXES I can send you a copy of one of mine to show you the concept if you are interested. they help so much when you are sharing things.( and anyone onlist who is interested may get one also! let me know!!!) I am so grateful to rootsweb and other researchers and would love to be able to work with everyone on my Warren line. On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:25:37 -0600 "Andrea Nelson" <Andrea.Nelson@mchsi.com> writes: > Dear Gloria, > Good morning and mega dittos to you from central Illinois! > I certainly most whole-heartedly agree with you! Also, to clarify, > I do > hope that you will make note on the two emails that I sent you > earlier that > I in NO way consider or propose to make claim that my > correspondances that > I offered to you as 'proof' or 'verification'. I only consider them > 'leads' > and 'clues' until I myself am able to obtain actual documents of > some degree > of verifyableness. I went back and reread my two emails to you and > see > where I failed to make/included that statement. I do apologize and > am so > sorry if I have mislead you. I was trying to write you inbetween > going to > work, and taking care of my elderly mother and grandfather.... so I > think in > my own un-subconscious way that when I told of Norma being the one > who has > help me in the past that that was my only way/idea of knowing how to > address > that issue. That's why I included her address for you in an attempt > to give > you access to someone who seems to be better/ more reputable at > this. > Learning how to document is in itself a full-time job that I myself > am > learning how to do on my own with no opportunity of being able to > learn how > to do it correctly aside from articles that I can find on the > internet. And > I still don't think I do it right. > > Maybe one way I could address this issue is to write some sort of a > statement and include it in my signature line? what do you think? > I'd hate > to think that I would continue to mislead people, but I desparetly > want to > be able to write to people even as I am learning how to do so > properly and > correctly. Writing is a very difficult art to learn for me I see. > > Please respond. I look forward to receiving your input and > correspondances. > Sincerely, Andrea Nelson in Fisher IL 61843 > > > ___ > > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > > Only $9.95 per month! > > Visit www.juno.com > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com