To the War of 1812 List: The perspective of Barry is very interesting and illuminating. Bill Volonte William J. Volonte Attorney at Law 117 Central Avenue Hackensack, NJ 07601-4207 Tel.: (201) 883-0777; Fax: (201) 883-0767 H: (201) 659-4941; Cell: (201) 780-4327 E-Mail: H: volonte@promail.com; O: volonte@qmail.com
To the War of 1812 List: The views on impressment, and the conditions in the Royal Navy, were very interesting. Thanks for the insight. Bill Volonte William J. Volonte Attorney at Law 117 Central Avenue Hackensack, NJ 07601-4207 Tel.: (201) 883-0777; Fax: (201) 883-0767 H: (201) 659-4941; Cell: (201) 780-4327 E-Mail: H: volonte@promail.com; O: volonte@qmail.com
> > >The British were also looking for sailors who had deserted their posts >and pretended to be Americans. However, the conditions in the Royal Navy were >horrible. Otherwise honorable sailors were forced to escape this brutal service. > May I suggest that you do more research into the British Navy of the Napoleanic period? You are perpetuating two myths: 1)looking for deserters, and 2)terrible conditions. In the case of stopping American ships and pressing supposedly British sailors, there is certainly evidence. But there is a lot more to press gangs, and their "recruits" than that. A shortage of manpower was at the root of it, and, again contrary to popular belief, mainly sailors were impressed - not just any able bodied male. Impressment is only another name for conscription. While conditions aboard Royal Navy ships seem bad by modern standards, there is ample evidence to support the fact that, generally, they were far better than those found on merchant ships of the period. -- Sue McLean smaclean@deadsquid.com
A different perspective from a Canadian who's GGGranfather was in the war, and who came to Canada because of the war as a soldier. Upper Canada was sparsely populated before the war except for some UELs who moved here after the American Revolution. I believe that because of the war Britain realized how vulnerable Canada was to the US and of course had a stronger presence and encouraged settlement. My ancestor was granted land and kept on half pay for 3 years. He left the Glengarry Light Infantry fencibles and settled in Canada as many others did. I believe as a indirect result Britain won by establishing a strong presence and settlement in Canada. Other wise who knows, without the war settlement would have been mainly by Americans looking for new lands and possible would have eventully been absorbed into the USA. My thoughts, Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: <Naval1812@aol.com> To: <WARof1812-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [WARof1812] Who won the War of 1812 > In a message dated 9/21/04 8:50:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > VolonteW@aol.com > writes: > >> I think the War of 1812 was a draw. > > I tend to agree with this statement. We ended up here we started sad did > the > British. There was, however, many great building blocks for the USA. The > fallacy of depending on a "militia" was discovered, and a professional > army was > aborning. WE see the first glimmering of the steam engine Naval period. > > The need for the individual states to "truly" band together in a Federal > government to preserve and grow the country was discovered. > > Thinking about it as I write I would say that the Nation discovered itself > during this period. > > Barry--- > > Look for Dickey's soon to publish book that sill say we lost the War. > > > ==== WARof1812 Mailing List ==== > MESSAGE HINT: Limit your per line characters > to 55 to 70 for a much better return message. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >
In a message dated 9/21/04 8:50:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, VolonteW@aol.com writes: > I think the War of 1812 was a draw. I tend to agree with this statement. We ended up here we started sad did the British. There was, however, many great building blocks for the USA. The fallacy of depending on a "militia" was discovered, and a professional army was aborning. WE see the first glimmering of the steam engine Naval period. The need for the individual states to "truly" band together in a Federal government to preserve and grow the country was discovered. Thinking about it as I write I would say that the Nation discovered itself during this period. Barry--- Look for Dickey's soon to publish book that sill say we lost the War.
To the War of 1812 List: One writer recently noted that the History Channel special on the War of 1812 did not present a balanced political perspective. I think this is correct; the point-of-view was strictly from the American side. However, the writer noted that the Americas did not achieve any of their goals, and, presumably, were "losers" in the war. At the outset, since the American side declared the war, the British could not have formulated any "pre-war" goals. Of course, the Americans may have been forced into the conflict, because of such policies as impressing American sailors. No country could tolerate a policy of having its ships boarded by a hostile power, and having its citizens removed (although American ships at the contemorary time will board those of other nation states in international waters, in search of contraband). The British were also looking for sailors who had deserted their posts and pretended to be Americans. However, the conditions in the Royal Navy were horrible. Otherwise honorable sailors were forced to escape this brutal service. During the war, the British wanted to lop-off, and take, the northern part of Maine (the the Maine district of Massachusetts). The purpose for taking this land would have been to create a more direct method of communication between the Maritime Provinces (Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Prince Edward Island), and the city of Québec (and Lower Canada, later the province of Québec). The British never achieved this goal. In additon, the British wanted to create a Native American buffer state between Canada and the United States. The Americans, true Indian-haters, prevented this from taking place. I think the War of 1812 was a draw. Bill Volonte William J. Volonte Attorney at Law 117 Central Avenue Hackensack, NJ 07601-4207 Tel.: (201) 883-0777; Fax: (201) 883-0767 H: (201) 659-4941; Cell: (201) 780-4327 E-Mail: H: volonte@promail.com; O: volonte@qmail.com
Whether the History Channel's special on the War of 1812 presented a balanced perspective is pretty much irrelevant. The facts presented were generally factual, and the viewer was obliged to look at it from his own point of view. It is true, there was no winner in that war, which is true of war in general. However, the lessons learned from the War of 1812 have served both Great Britain and the United States, as well as other nations, as to how judgment may be better exercised in future potential conflicts of interest. While there was no winner or loser in that war, both sides gained on the side of wisdom, and lost in lives and fortune. In war, there are never any winners, but on the plus side, there is the chance some wisdom may have been gained as a side effect, as has been the case in all wars recorded in history. Not to suggest that war is a satisfactory solution to any problem, but there is no great loss without some small gain. When one is in a position of responsibility, he must make decisions, some right, some wrong, and only history will judge the propriety of any of them. Any one of us could some day be in such a position.
Ok, people geez I'm sorry. Most all of my lists already have in the subject line the list to which we have subscribed. I understand that the War of 1812 list didn't until just the other day. I also understand the everyone's internet mail servers are different. I think two days of letting me have it is enough. Can we get back to the War? Sorry, Janean ----- Original Message ----- From: <VolonteW@aol.com> To: <WARof1812-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: [WARof1812] The subject box > To the War of 1812 list: > > In response to the comment that the "WARof1812" wastes space in the > subject box: > > The emails just have the email address of the sender and the subject. > > The email to which I am responding came from JRay38@neo.rr.co. Suppose > the writer wants information on "Private Jack Smith of the 21st Maryland > Militia," but writes just "Jack Smith" in the subject box, how is the reader to know > that the email has anything to do with the War of 1812? > > Such an inquiry looks like spam. I personally do not have the time to > read most spam. I really have no interest in getting a degree from a > nonaccredited university, among other things. I doubt that many subscribers to the War > of 1812 list have such a desire. One has to just get rid of them. > > I know that the "WARof1812" wastes space in the subject box, but given > the huge amount of spam, it seems to be required. > > Bill Volonte > > > ==== WARof1812 Mailing List ==== > This WAR of 1812 List is sponsored by ROOTSWEB > Let them know how much you appreciate our list > by visiting them at: http://www.rootsweb.com > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >
I am thankful to have the name of the list already in the subject line. Now I know from which list the email has come and I do not miss any thing. I delete almost every email that has no data in the subject line. And with the spammers getting trickier and putting data in the subject line to fool one, it is getting more irritating to be spammed. I have the surname of the list I admin. in the subject line and feel it helps folks who are researching that line. Regards, Virginia L. Aldridge Genealogy Resources www.genealogy-resources.net
To the War of 1812 list: In response to the comment that the "WARof1812" wastes space in the subject box: The emails just have the email address of the sender and the subject. The email to which I am responding came from JRay38@neo.rr.co. Suppose the writer wants information on "Private Jack Smith of the 21st Maryland Militia," but writes just "Jack Smith" in the subject box, how is the reader to know that the email has anything to do with the War of 1812? Such an inquiry looks like spam. I personally do not have the time to read most spam. I really have no interest in getting a degree from a nonaccredited university, among other things. I doubt that many subscribers to the War of 1812 list have such a desire. One has to just get rid of them. I know that the "WARof1812" wastes space in the subject box, but given the huge amount of spam, it seems to be required. Bill Volonte
To the Web Master: I want to share some several pages of background on a War of 1812 Midshipman and of course receive back any additional information others my have about him. Should this information be in the body of the email or will an attachment, which disinterested parties need not read, be sent through the rootsweb system? Barry---
Looking for information about men born in Germany/Prussia who joined the British Army and came to the US during the War of 1812, who were then recruited by the Middlesex Glass Works in Chelmsford MA. My ancestor Francis Weaver left Napoleans Army during the battle of Jena and joined up with the British Army. Once in the US during the War of 1812, he took leave of (aka deserted?) the British Army because he refused to fight the Americans (per his sons obituary). He became a foreman at the glass works. Information I previously found indicates that the glass works may have recruited Prussian/German glass artisans to come work for them. Francis married Naomi Hunt, daughter of Samuel Hunt (the villages only cabinet maker) with whom he had several children. Francis may have had a brother named Joseph. Thanks for any help anyone can provide. Susan in Georgia
Looking for information about men born in Germany/Prussia who joined the British Army and came to the US during the War of 1812, who were then recruited by the Middlesex Glass Works in Chelmsford MA. My ancestor Francis Weaver left Napoleans Army during the battle of Jena and joined up with the British Army. Once in the US during the War of 1812, he took leave of (aka deserted?) the British Army because he refused to fight the Americans (per his sons obituary). He became a foreman at the glass works. Information I previously found indicates that the glass works may have recruited Prussian/German glass artisans to come work for them. Francis married Naomi Hunt, daughter of Samuel Hunt (the villages only cabinet maker) with whom he had several children. Francis may have had a brother named Joseph. Thanks for any help anyone can provide. Susan in Georgia
Space is relatively limited in the subject line so I think repeating the obvious wastes space. We know we are writing to and reading from the War of 1812 list. Repeating War of 1812 in the subject line is redundant. Everyone subscribed to this list knows what it is about, that is why I just put the persons name of whom I am searching in the subject line. If I'm wrong in my thinking, I apologize. Janean
On 20 Sep 2004, at 11:26, Janean Ray wrote: > Space is relatively limited in the subject line so I think > repeating the obvious wastes space. We know we are writing to and > reading from the War of 1812 list. Repeating War of 1812 in the > subject line is redundant. Everyone subscribed to this list knows > what it is about, that is why I just put the persons name of whom > I am searching in the subject line. [WARof1812] is now an automatic feature in the subject line, and to manually enter it would indeed be redundant. But if you subscribe to scores of lists, and don't know by heart all the individuals' names on each list (not to mention the cross-overs), and receive hundreds of other emails every week, then the group name in the subject line is a huge help in mail sorting and handling. regards, T.F. Mills, webmaster Land Forces of Britain, the Empire and Commonwealth http://www.regiments.org
On 19 Sep 04, at 17:48, VolonteW@aol.com wrote: > Although there were only one or two "errors" in the History Channel's > special last Sunday, Sept. 12, the program was strictly from the American point > of view. "Point of view" is putting it kindly. History Channel should be seen primarily as marketable entertainment and only occasionally as reliable history. Their version of the War of 1812 was a nice dramatisation of the aspects of the war that fueled the mythology of American nationhood. The hyperbole that came out of the war ("second war of independence" etc.) is still the version taught in American schools, but this ignores the fact that the Americans failed in their stated war aims while the British succeeded in theirs. regards, > > The Canadian view of the conflict is quite different. Canadians tend to > view the conflict as the last time the Americans attempted to militarily > take-over the provinces that now form Canadian Confederation. > > Also, Canadian students study the War of 1812 for many weeks-- in > contrast to us. The War of 1812 is always glossed over in our text books. > > * * * > > It should be noted that we Americans kicked-off the "burn-baby-burn" > syndrome endemic to this war by torching a town named Newark (Niagara), Upper > Canada (Ontario). A local commander made the decision to Ontario. The > British/Canadians immediately retaliated by burning to the ground Buffalo, New York. It > went on from there, with York (Toronto) and Washington being but the big-name > victims of the torch. In contrast to 20th Century wars, the combatants had > the good taste to not torch the civilians while toasting the town. > > > Bill Volonte > > > > > William J. Volonte > Attorney at Law > 117 Central Avenue > Hackensack, NJ 07601-4207 > Tel.: (201) 883-0777; Fax: (201) 883-0767 > H: (201) 659-4941; Cell: (201) 780-4327 > E-Mail: H: volonte@promail.com; O: volonte@qmail.com > > > ==== WARof1812 Mailing List ==== > WAR of 1812 LIST ADMINISTRATOR > <<<commander@sunlitsurf.com>>> > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > T.F. Mills tfmills@regiments.org (Denver, Colorado, USA) Land Forces of Britain, the Commonwealth and Empire: http://www.regiments.org British Empire/Commonwealth Forces discussion group: http://topica.com/lists/Emp-Comm-Forces
To the War of 1812 List: Although there were only one or two "errors" in the History Channel's special last Sunday, Sept. 12, the program was strictly from the American point of view. The Canadian view of the conflict is quite different. Canadians tend to view the conflict as the last time the Americans attempted to militarily take-over the provinces that now form Canadian Confederation. Also, Canadian students study the War of 1812 for many weeks-- in contrast to us. The War of 1812 is always glossed over in our text books. * * * It should be noted that we Americans kicked-off the "burn-baby-burn" syndrome endemic to this war by torching a town named Newark (Niagara), Upper Canada (Ontario). A local commander made the decision to Ontario. The British/Canadians immediately retaliated by burning to the ground Buffalo, New York. It went on from there, with York (Toronto) and Washington being but the big-name victims of the torch. In contrast to 20th Century wars, the combatants had the good taste to not torch the civilians while toasting the town. Bill Volonte William J. Volonte Attorney at Law 117 Central Avenue Hackensack, NJ 07601-4207 Tel.: (201) 883-0777; Fax: (201) 883-0767 H: (201) 659-4941; Cell: (201) 780-4327 E-Mail: H: volonte@promail.com; O: volonte@qmail.com
Sorry... but I have just duplicated " [WARof1812], copied and pasted it to the subject line with very little effort, and posted it to myself just to see how it would look... and it looked exactly like the one that most recently came through the rootsweb list... so it is not an absolute guarantee not to be scam or something worse. If you are an Outlook Express user you can go to "View" on you toolbar, click on "Columns" and check "To". Then the "To" column will tell you that it came to you through WARof1812-L@rootsweb.com. (The "From" column will tell who on the list submitted the message.) This is your only absolute guarantee. Elaine
The changes implemented last night are great. The subject line in the email now reads: [WAR OF 1812]. It is now impossible to misapprehend this email as unwanted spam. Thanks for the time and attention. Bill Volonte William J. Volonte Attorney at Law 117 Central Avenue Hackensack, NJ 07601-4207 Tel.: (201) 883-0777; Fax: (201) 883-0767 H: (201) 659-4941; Cell: (201) 780-4327 E-Mail: H: volonte@promail.com; O: volonte@qmail.com
According to 'Report of the Adjutant General of the State of Kentucky, Soldiers of the War of 1812', Frankfort, 1891, pages 262 - 273, the regiment commanded by Lieutenant Colonel John Francisco was in service from February 8, 1815 - March 7, 1815 (some men were in service until August 8, 1815). The Battle of the River Raisin was January 23, 1813. The book 'Remember the Raisin' by G. Glenn Clift, Frankfort, 1961, shows the regiments and men involved and neither the names of John Francisco nor Andrew Hogue Armstrong appear in the index. There is a Private Joseph Armstrong that was in Captain Paschal Hickman's Company, 1st Rifle Regiment, that was at the Raisin and listed as captured January 22, 1813. There is a Private Joseph Armstrong in Captain William Caldwell's Company under Colonel Francisco. Where this is the same man is anybody's guess. The book 'Kentucky in the War of 1812' by Anderson Chenault Quisenberry, Frankfort, 1915, says: 'Almost on the very day of the battle of New Orleans, Governor Shelby called out a regiment of Kentucky militia to march to Detroit, Michigan, and relieve the garrison of one thousand men thee, whose term of service was about to expire. This regiment of eight hundred and thirty-four officers and enlisted men, commanded by Lieutenant-Colonel John Francisco and Majors John Bean and James Grant, was organized on February 8, 1815, just one month after the battle of New Orleans, and had marched as far as Urbana, Ohio, on their way to Detroit, when (March 17, 1815) orders reached them to march back home and disband, as the Senate had ratified the treaty of peace on February 17, and the war was over.' Page 11. Notice the discrepancy in dates between the first and third paragraphs (March 7 and March 17). Scott Baker -----Original Message----- From: ROGUE8357@aol.com [mailto:ROGUE8357@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 10:22 AM To: WARof1812-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [WARof1812] War of 1812 Francesco/Francisco's 17th Regiment Kentucky Militia Hello. I've tried sending this a couple of times now, but I haven't seen it show up on the list yet, so let me try again. I'm hoping someone can help me. My great-great-grandfather, Andrew Hogue Armstrong, is listed on the muster rolls for Francesco's 17th regiment/Kentucky Militia in the War of 1812. I've done Google searches, scanned the indexes of countless history books, harassed historians at the Kentucky military archives, wrote to the NARA, even searched this list's archives and I still can't find out anything about this regiment. No one seems to know anything about Francesco's Kentucky militia. Is it the same 17th Regiment that was massacred at the River Raisin? Did the militia operate differently than the "real" 17th regiment? Does anyone know how I can find more information about this particular regiment? One of the historians at the Kentucky Military Records & Research Branch in Frankfort, Ky told me that in 1874 all military records prior to 1860 were burned by order of the Kentucky Adjutant General to make way for incoming Civil War pension applications. So, given this, is it still possible to find out about Francesco & his 17th Regiment? I find it ironic that I can find more on my great-great-great-grandfather, Benjamin Egerton's month long misadventure with Thomas Kennedy's Company than I can on Francesco's (which I'm assuming lasted longer). Thanks in advance for any help. Roxanne ==== WARof1812 Mailing List ==== WAR OF 1812 QUERY BOARD http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USWARS/War1812/General ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237