This is JUST my opinion regarding the current discussions: Dayna -- IF you TRULY wanted to share them, then why are you complaining??????? EVERYTHING at the site is material YOU (and everyone else) loaded as FTP files to GENWEB sites all over the web. EACH FILE has the personal information of the person who SUBMITTED IT FOR PUBLICATION ON THE SITES IN QUESTION. All he did was ADVERTISE your information, and provide an INDEX for all of us to find YOUR information more easily. FREE ADVERTISING AT THAT. I didn't see anything CREATIVE that was published at his site. Not even one bit of fancy graphics. I am TOTALLY surprised that you have this attitude when you run websites for GENWEB. I would NEVER have found your information without his INDEX!! <<Don't you realize that this dirtbag has not spent one second typing up the very records you enjoyed at his site?>> You are correct... he didn't type them. He simply INDEXED them for all of us poor people who have trouble finding all the sites that MIGHT have information on our families. What I saw out there was PUBLIC records. Public records can NOT be copyrighted. I was not aware that simply typing these records made them yours. Where did you find the information you typed up, by the way. From some book? <<He stole them from me and others like me.>> He didn't STEAL them, he simply INDEXED THE INFORMATION SO WE COULD ALL FIND IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! From what I could tell... he provided an index to ALL the USGENWEB site information in ONE handy place. When you clicked on a file, it took you directly to the FTP file that YOU uploaded. <<It's the same as me coming into your house and stealing your family bible and putting it on my coffee table and saying it's mine. Does that sound fair to you?>> It is NOT the same. If you print a copy of the Bible pages in the newspaper, and I buy the paper the information is now MINE. I did not go into your home and take it. You uploaded a file and made it available to everyone. << We put these cemetery records and such on our web pages to share with you and Matt Roller came around to our web pages and snagged our work without ever asking us. Is that ill-gotten gains or what? And then it's rubbing salt in our wounds to see you praise him.>> You uploaded the information to a GENWEB site, and did NOT block its download. IF you TRULY wanted to share the information, then why are you complaining ??????? All he did was ADVERTISE your information, and provide an INDEX for all of us to find YOUR information more easily. FREE ADVERTISING AT THAT. I would think ALL these site would be happy to have someone provide a comprehensive AD for them. If I found something interesting and helpful, I would definately email the submitter, AND visit their site, for MORE information. I think you are TOTALLY wrong, and so do all these other people. HOWEVER, you are certainly entitled to your own opinion. Peggy Sue Wilson Subj: web discussion Date: 97-07-20 11:13:05 EDT From: njadams@geocities.com (Norma Adams) To: ROWANROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Good Morning, I try never to get involved in these discussions, but I cannot sit idly by any longer. My personal feeling is that if I post something in a public place, anyone who wants is welcome to read it or copy the information for their personal use. If anyone wants to put it one a web page for all to use, they have my blessings to do so. I have found much information on the different web sites, such as Genweb, Gendex, etc., in a short period of time. It would have taken many years and miles of travel to otherwise get this information. I, for one, am against anyone trying to shut down anything!! Once something like that got started, it more than likely would be a domino effect, and we would all be right back where we started....taking pencil and paper to every courthouse and library and cemetery we could find. I'm sure no one is deliberatly "stealing" someone else's work. I figure that if I toss it out for everyone to see, they are more than welcome to it. If I prefer not to share, I'll keep it private. I think we have much more to lose than to gain, by any kind of a "shutdown" movement. There have been countless people donating immeasurable hours and spending their own money, to get the genealogy sites where they are today. Let's not destroy such a valuable tool in genealogical research. Thank you for your time. Norma Adams, Middletown, Oh. So, it looks like it is a "moot" point. Too bad, I was really getting some good info too!! And I didn't mind how much of my online info, they used. I share with everyone, trying to help others. It would just let more people have access to my surnames which might, in turn, help me. How sad. MHO, Marylyn Subj: Re: Data on the Web Date: 97-07-20 09:45:38 EDT From: FamilyHart@aol.com Resent-from: ROWANROOTS-L@rootsweb.com To: ROWANROOTS-L@rootsweb.com, somgen-l@sirius.dsenter.com Note: This is part of an ongoing discussion on rootsweb. Warning: I am indeed on the soapbox. I have been doing research now for over 35 years. I started doing research well before the advent of the PC. It was a lot of work doing it the old paper way. I started doing the PC thing on the first IBM PC when it first came out. That made life a whole lot better. I now have a database of over 150,000 linked individuals and have another 2or300,000 sitting on the shelf to comperterize. My family from one end of the country to the other has sent that to me and more. My wife and I spend tens of hours a week laboring putting this information in the computer. We travel four times a year via plane, rented car and meals on the road with its associated expenses to verify the data that we have. And yet with all of this... We give our information away freely. We share it gladly. We have requests made to us weekly to add links from someone else's site to ours. We answer positively. We have our information "stolen" continually for which we are happy! The only request I have ever made is do not sell what we give you but do the same as we do, give it away freely. Our works are copyrighted for style and presentation. This is only to protect its shareability and make sure it is free to all. We would only enforce copyright to the extent that someone else is trying to sell it. If someone else is giving away our information under their name, oh well. If they repackage it, there is nothing to do about it anyway. Copyright law is very specific. You can not copyright facts. Period! You can not copyright public documents. Period! If you do genealogy for other than altruistic pursuits, then you're doing it for the wrong reasons. Don's opinion: it should be for love and respect of those who went before. Others have their own opinions as to the above but this is mine. Don Hartman Subj: Re: Data on the Web Date: 97-07-20 09:50:23 EDT From: FamilyHart@aol.com Resent-from: ROWANROOTS-L@rootsweb.com To: ROWANROOTS-L@rootsweb.com I just saw the note from Marilyn about the questionable site being shut down until "copyright material" is removed. That is unfortunate and sends a chilling effect through the community. It is also too bad that people do not know copyright law well enough to defend against such actions. Don Subj: Data on the Web Date: 97-07-20 10:33:16 EDT From: jdcoates@aa.net (John Coates) Resent-from: ROWANROOTS-L@rootsweb.com To: rowanroots-l@rootsweb.com (RowanRoots-L), COATES-L@rootsweb.com (Coates-L) As you may or may not be aware there is currently a major controversy regarding genealogical data on the Internet. I will not detail them here, there are several lists where that is the topic of the day, but they deal with the possible "copyright" infringement by a couple individuals. The individuals do not appear to be involved in any commercial venture. Whether or not there was actual copyright infringement is of little interest to me. What is of major concern to me is the restriction of, or claims of any kind on information generated by my activities. For 5 years I have been involved with the free an unrestricted sharing of genealogical information on the Internet. I intend to continue to do so. Any information posted on any list or web site that I support is and will remain FREE AND OPEN TO ALL. I hope that it is not used for commercial purposes, but I claim no ownership and do not see how I could prevent it. Thank You John Coates - List Admin for RowanRoots-L and Coates-L Web site maintainer for Alexnader, Davidson and Rowan County NCGenWeb sites jdcoates@aa.net Rowan Co, NCGenWeb Site http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncrowan/rowan.htm Davidson Co, NCGenWeb Site http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncdavids/davidson.htm Alexander County, NCGenWeb Site http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncalexan/alexander.htm RowanRoots-L, Discussion List for "Old" Rowan Co., NC http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncrowan/rowanroots-l.htm COATES/COATS/COATE Surname List, http://www.aa.net/~jdcoates/list/coates-l.htm At 09:13 PM 7/19/97 EDT, Mina M Bickerstaff wrote: [snip] >TWGA is located at: <http://oasis.slcc.edu/search/> >Maintained by a dirtbag named Matt Roller. [snip] I don't think that is called for. No matter what anybody did or is being accused of. Subj: Data on the Web Date: 97-07-20 01:09:17 EDT From: CrumpJSC@aol.com Resent-from: ROWANROOTS-L@rootsweb.com To: ROWANROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Peggy, I'm with you. I do this stuff for a living (as does Dayna by her ad in her address) and it's common knowledge that once it's out there, it's basically free for the taking. Add to that the additional info that you were kind enough to research from the site and put in your note and I'm frankly a little baffled here. Is this the same US GenWeb who had people posting notices in GALINA about how outraged they were that companies like Broderbund wouldn't provide the census and marriage material they've been selling for years to the GenWeb project? Take a stand folks, that's certainly your right, but you can't have it both ways. I too, went to the sites mentioned as well as GenWeb and didn't see a copyright notice anywhere. Jamie CrumpJSC@aol.com