There is much talk in my Walroup/Waldrop family of Black Dutch also. They were from NC>GA>TX. AND I have found descendants of my ancestor spelling the name both ways. There is also a story of a gggggrandmother who was full blooded Indian. I have yet to find that in my tree but am sure it is very possible. This is my extent of the knowledge of my Black Dutch ancestry. In my research, there doesn't seem to be a clear cut answer to this origin. Brenda Hay CensusDiggins.com http://www.censusdiggins.com Home of FREE databases and GenStuff GiveAway.

I've heard that it did, and that in fact the shipwrecked Spaniards were the ancestors of the "Black Irish." there are also the Irish Travellers, who are kind of like their own gypsies, with their own language. Many of them have immigrated to the US. Robert Waldrop, Oklahoma City -----Original Message----- From: Paul C. Palmer <pcpalmer@gvtc.com> > Fact is a LOT of boats bearing Spaniards shipwrecked on Irish shores in >1588, remnants of the great ARMADA, driven around the island of Great >Britain by storms and British war ships. I'm sure there were other >occasional groundings as well, but 1588 was the big year for Spaniards >shipwrecked in Ireland. Don't know if even that would have had a major >genetic impact, however.

Probably the Irish and Dutch with darker hair and eyes used the term "Black Dutch or Irish" to describe themselves and the Indians adopted it to try to claim white blood. Makes sense don't you think. I mean the Indians had to assume the terms meant something to the white census takers, etc., else it would have been of no help to them. Mickey Mildred "Mickey" Fournier PO Box 1967, Lake City, FL 32056 mailto:mfournier@atlantic.net

Re: Black Dutch On both sides of my family there is Native American blood and they referred to themselves as Black Dutch in order to own land. Also the part of my family from Alsace France called themselves Black Dutch. Sounds like it was a catch all identity. Raynell

When I was very young, my grandmother would call me the only Black Irish in the family as she was. Meaning we both had very dark hair hers was black..I mean real black and dark eyes and fair skin. My grandmother hair and eye were black, yet her skin was as pale as ivory soap. My hair isn't as black, but eye are, I am fair skin, but I tan well. I've been told that this came from the Irish and the Spanish having children. My grandmother's maiden name was McKenzie and her mother's maiden's name was McBride. My McBride's ancestors were White , Liverman and Aldridge. I have researched my McKenzies line , yet. Richardson, McBride, McKenzie, White, Aldridge and Liverman doesn't sound Spanish, maybe when I research past Liverman McKenzies and McBrides I will find where my Black Irish came from. I also heard a boat shipped wrecked near Ireland and this is suppose to be when the Irish and Spanish had children. Was that Black Irish or Black Sheep? hmmmmmmmmmmm. We have several red heads in our family also. I can't remember when my grandmother didn't call me her Black Irish granddaughter. Anyone else have any stories? Sandra ERNIE WATTS wrote: > When I researched this i came up with 2 possibilities. The first is that half breed indians would tell the people coming to take them away to the reservations that they were black dutch or irish. The is the one I tend to believe just from the coloring of my own family since we are all very dark skinned with dark hair and brown eyes. My brother especially looks Indian. > The second explaination was that the gypsys would call themselves that when they came to america as indentured servants and had finally worked off their passage or run away. > Hope this helps. > > Jana Watts > Margaret <hfish@ix.netcom.com> wrote: Hello All, > Can any one explain why a person.....a Waldrop, > born in Louisiana, would call himself Black Dutch? > > Margaret > > ==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== > To use Waldrop Message Board: > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop > To Review Archived messages: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L > > --------------------------------- > Do You Yahoo!? > Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup > > ==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== > To use Waldrop Message Board: > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop > To Review Archived messages: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L

Fact is a LOT of boats bearing Spaniards shipwrecked on Irish shores in 1588, remnants of the great ARMADA, driven around the island of Great Britain by storms and British war ships. I'm sure there were other occasional groundings as well, but 1588 was the big year for Spaniards shipwrecked in Ireland. Don't know if even that would have had a major genetic impact, however. Paul C. Palmer ----- Original Message ----- From: Sandra W. Doolittle <nangirl@ldl.net> To: <WALDROP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [WALDROP] Black Dutch > When I was very young, my grandmother would call me the > only Black Irish in the family as she was. > > > Meaning we both had very dark hair hers was black..I mean > real black and dark eyes and fair skin. > My grandmother hair and eye were black, yet her skin was > as pale as ivory soap. > My hair isn't as black, but eye are, I am fair skin, but I tan well. > > I've been told that this came from the Irish and the Spanish having > children. My grandmother's maiden name was McKenzie and > her mother's maiden's name was McBride. > > My McBride's ancestors were White , Liverman and Aldridge. > I have researched my McKenzies line , yet. > > Richardson, McBride, McKenzie, White, Aldridge and Liverman > doesn't sound Spanish, maybe when I research past Liverman > McKenzies and McBrides > I will find where my Black Irish came from. > > I also heard a boat shipped wrecked near Ireland and > this is suppose to be when the Irish and Spanish had children. >

Well, this may be way off base but I have heard that the Black Dutch term came from the offspring of Germans who lived in the Alsace region and married French women. As a rule, they tended to have darker hair. It made sense to me at the time. Mickey ==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== To use Waldrop Message Board: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop To Review Archived messages: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L

Thanks to all for the help with the question of Black Dutch. My gr-grandfather Waldrop, who was born in Louisiana in the 1850s was in not in any danger of Removal, but he called himself Black Dutch and says his mother was an Indian. He says her name was Faver/Favre. But her maiden name on the record of her marriage to James Waldrop, is Waldrop. It is a complete mystery who her parents were. She was born 1830 in Mississippi and came early in her life to Louisiana. I don't suppose I can ever find out for sure, but I was looking to find whether she was Indian or not. Thanks for all of your input. Margaret Waldrop Halverson

When I researched this i came up with 2 possibilities. The first is that half breed indians would tell the people coming to take them away to the reservations that they were black dutch or irish. The is the one I tend to believe just from the coloring of my own family since we are all very dark skinned with dark hair and brown eyes. My brother especially looks Indian. The second explaination was that the gypsys would call themselves that when they came to america as indentured servants and had finally worked off their passage or run away. Hope this helps. Jana Watts Margaret <hfish@ix.netcom.com> wrote: Hello All, Can any one explain why a person.....a Waldrop, born in Louisiana, would call himself Black Dutch? Margaret ==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== To use Waldrop Message Board: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop To Review Archived messages: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

Black Dutch is what people of Indian ancestry called themselves so that they would not be forced to live on the reservations. They sometimes called themselves Black Irish as well. My ancestry is Black Dutch Paula ----- Original Message ----- From: Margaret To: WALDROP-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 11:19 PM Subject: [WALDROP] Black Dutch Hello All, Can any one explain why a person.....a Waldrop, born in Louisiana, would call himself Black Dutch? Margaret ==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== To use Waldrop Message Board: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop To Review Archived messages: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L

Hello All, Can any one explain why a person.....a Waldrop, born in Louisiana, would call himself Black Dutch? Margaret

Thanks Karen, but I'm just one of several working on this Waldroop family line. You are right, it'll all come togather someday.

Quentin: You've done a wonderful job with all of your research!! I hope the rest of us can contribute and tie this gang together! You've giving me inspiration to carry on. Thanks so Much Karen

Hi everyone, Once again it's time for me to post an update on my Waldroop family. Over the last two years I've corresponded with several of you on this list, just wanted to take a minute to say thanks for your time, comments, and suggestions. The following is the result of several people researching this particular Waldroop family. Many thanks to them, and their contributions, to this family history. Away we go. William Henry Waldroop, b. about 1832, TN, possibly a son of Thomas Waldroop and Sarah Ann Meek, not confirmed at this time. Married Piety Elisabeth Blaylock about 1850/51 Sebastin Co. AR. Piety was the sister of Lucy Jane Blaylock, wife of Clinton Meek Waldroop. William and Piety are both deceased by 1860. Their children were: Edmond Gibson, b. 28 Aug 1852, Henry, b. 1853/54 and Saphorina Catherine, b. 25 Dec 1855. Edmond came to Texas, married Celia Elisabeth Butler Hunt Co. about 1871. Migrated to Palo Pinto Co. After Celia's death married Mary A. Griffin of Palo Pinto Co. Edmond died 1922 Palo Pinto Co. Saphorina married Thomas Raburn about 1871 in Sebastin Co, AR. Sometime in the early 1890s she and Thomas moved to the Indian Territory of Oklahoma, where she resided the remainder of her life. Of their brother Henry it is known he remained in the Sebastin Co area. One of our family researchers found a Henry A. Waldrope, age 27 and his wife Rebeca, age 37 enumerated on the 1880 census for Center Twp, Sebastin Co AR. Clinton Meek Waldroop is found in the same Twp on this census. This may, or may not be, Uncle Henry. Well folks, if this rings any bells, don't hesitate. Remember, somewhere, some place were all connected. Quentin

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I don't know about the Catawba either. One of my cousins said Cherokee was the story she heard about Sarah MEEKS. What is your pedigree with the WALDROOPS and MEEKS families. Thanks Karen

According to my records, Sarah "Sally" Blevins married Jacob Meeks and was Sarah Meeks mother. Sarah Meeks married Thomas Waldrop III. I have a question mark on whether Sarah was Catawba Indian. >From: JKScott2000@aol.com >Reply-To: WALDROP-L@rootsweb.com >To: WALDROP-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [WALDROP] John Manson Waldrop >Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 15:29:39 EDT > >So, Sarah Meek's maiden name was Blevin for sure? > Thanks..Karen > > >==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== >To use Waldrop Message Board: > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop >To Review Archived messages: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

Hi Mary, Thanks, but I have already talked with Jan Dawson. We do not have the same lines. Last time we talked, we had just about the same information. Thanks again, for your help. Sandra hoosier@prodigy.net wrote: > SANDRA, > Try putting a message out for Jan Dawson on the Waldrop list, she has a lot > of Waldrop info. > Mary > > "Sandra W. Doolittle" wrote: > > > Hi Mary, > > > > To tell you the truth, that scalawag was all over the place, > > wouldn't surprise me if he was in Illinois, too. > > Joseph Ryan Waldrop > > Born in Georgia 1823-1825 > > He married: Nancy Heard, Sarah Cathrine Alexander, Victoria > > K. Thomas (while still married to Sarah). > > Then in 1866 he met my great grandmother and in 1867 he > > married her in Washington County, Alabama. > > He was a Physician, Minister, KKK, State Rep. of Washington > > County. Justice of the Peace. > > > > Does anything ring a bell.....With his life style, he could be > > just anyone's grandpapa. > > Oh, yes he was running from a duel in Mississippi in the > > early to mid 1850s. It was called a rightful duel, but > > by then duels were outlawed in Mississippi. > > So, he didn't hang around. He was on the move . > > He mentions in a copy of a letter I have written by him, > > South Carolina, La, > > I have found him in Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and > > Arkansas, also Texas. > > > > Thanks for reply. > > > > Sandra > > (Georgia) > > > > hoosier@prodigy.net wrote: > > > > > I have a Joseph Waldrop, but in Illinois, could be a cousin, nephew or > > > uncle. No Texas, sorry. > > > Mary > > > > > > "Sandra W. Doolittle" wrote: > > > > > > > Has anyone in Texas ever heard of a Joseph Waldrop, who > > > > was born in 1833..he was married and had children. > > > > He lived near Martagorda, Texas. > > > > > > > > I am trying to see if he is related to my grandpapa, Dr. Joseph > > > > Ryan Waldrop. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Sandra > > > > (Waldrop) > > > > > > > > ==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== > > > > To use Waldrop Message Board: > > > > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop > > > > To Review Archived messages: > > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L > > > > > > ==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== > > > To use Waldrop Message Board: > > > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop > > > To Review Archived messages: > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L > > > > ==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== > > To use Waldrop Message Board: > > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop > > To Review Archived messages: > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L > > ==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== > To use Waldrop Message Board: > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop > To Review Archived messages: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L

SANDRA, Try putting a message out for Jan Dawson on the Waldrop list, she has a lot of Waldrop info. Mary "Sandra W. Doolittle" wrote: > Hi Mary, > > To tell you the truth, that scalawag was all over the place, > wouldn't surprise me if he was in Illinois, too. > Joseph Ryan Waldrop > Born in Georgia 1823-1825 > He married: Nancy Heard, Sarah Cathrine Alexander, Victoria > K. Thomas (while still married to Sarah). > Then in 1866 he met my great grandmother and in 1867 he > married her in Washington County, Alabama. > He was a Physician, Minister, KKK, State Rep. of Washington > County. Justice of the Peace. > > Does anything ring a bell.....With his life style, he could be > just anyone's grandpapa. > Oh, yes he was running from a duel in Mississippi in the > early to mid 1850s. It was called a rightful duel, but > by then duels were outlawed in Mississippi. > So, he didn't hang around. He was on the move . > He mentions in a copy of a letter I have written by him, > South Carolina, La, > I have found him in Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and > Arkansas, also Texas. > > Thanks for reply. > > Sandra > (Georgia) > > hoosier@prodigy.net wrote: > > > I have a Joseph Waldrop, but in Illinois, could be a cousin, nephew or > > uncle. No Texas, sorry. > > Mary > > > > "Sandra W. Doolittle" wrote: > > > > > Has anyone in Texas ever heard of a Joseph Waldrop, who > > > was born in 1833..he was married and had children. > > > He lived near Martagorda, Texas. > > > > > > I am trying to see if he is related to my grandpapa, Dr. Joseph > > > Ryan Waldrop. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Sandra > > > (Waldrop) > > > > > > ==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== > > > To use Waldrop Message Board: > > > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop > > > To Review Archived messages: > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L > > > > ==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== > > To use Waldrop Message Board: > > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop > > To Review Archived messages: > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L > > ==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== > To use Waldrop Message Board: > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop > To Review Archived messages: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L

Thanks, He was in Maragorda, Texas, in 1855. Thanks again for checking. People like you are great. If I can be of help over here in Georgia, just let me know. Sandra BeckyGarzaTNTX@cs.com wrote: > checked the 1870 census of historic matagorda county and he wasn't listed > there... > > ==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== > To use Waldrop Message Board: > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop > To Review Archived messages: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L

checked the 1870 census of historic matagorda county and he wasn't listed there...