At 11:39 PM 7/21/2002 -0400, you wrote: Jan, Thanks so much. I used to get time to go do research, but it seems that I get less and less time as the economy gets worse. Terri >Terri, this is from the soundex, so I do not know if it includes all >Waldrops, but these are the ones in Smith County, Tx in 1900--all spellings: > >Nancy Waldrop, (b. c1992 Tx); Living with Frank Hughes family. (Looks like >"step-daughter"), Smith Co., Tx, p. 64. > >Mary M. Waldrop (Feb 1845 SC); Living with Frances R. Sharer, sister. Vol. >97, ED 93, Sheet 4, Line 33. Death record: Mary Matilda Waldrep (sic), d. >4-13-1919. Smith Co., Tx. #14180. > >Zoonna Waldrip, death certificate: d. 3-29-1904, Smith Co., Tx. #51022. > >J.D. Waldup (sic), death certificate: 3-28-1934, Smith Co., Tx. #15020. > >Variants?: > >Charles E. Waldorf (May 1876 Ala); Living in 1900 with Cornelius W. Goodman, >father-in-law. Vol. 97, ED 108, Sheet 7, Line 34 > >Alex Woldert, Sr., death certificate: 3-12-1939, Smith co., Tx. #15293. > >Wm. Albert Woldert, Sr., death certificate: 2-26-1937, Smith Co., Tx. #11478. > > >==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== >To use Waldrop Message Board: > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop >To Review Archived messages: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L

Terri, this is from the soundex, so I do not know if it includes all Waldrops, but these are the ones in Smith County, Tx in 1900--all spellings: Nancy Waldrop, (b. c1992 Tx); Living with Frank Hughes family. (Looks like "step-daughter"), Smith Co., Tx, p. 64. Mary M. Waldrop (Feb 1845 SC); Living with Frances R. Sharer, sister. Vol. 97, ED 93, Sheet 4, Line 33. Death record: Mary Matilda Waldrep (sic), d. 4-13-1919. Smith Co., Tx. #14180. Zoonna Waldrip, death certificate: d. 3-29-1904, Smith Co., Tx. #51022. J.D. Waldup (sic), death certificate: 3-28-1934, Smith Co., Tx. #15020. Variants?: Charles E. Waldorf (May 1876 Ala); Living in 1900 with Cornelius W. Goodman, father-in-law. Vol. 97, ED 108, Sheet 7, Line 34 Alex Woldert, Sr., death certificate: 3-12-1939, Smith co., Tx. #15293. Wm. Albert Woldert, Sr., death certificate: 2-26-1937, Smith Co., Tx. #11478.

At 01:29 AM 7/12/2002 -0400, you wrote: It would help. I would appreciate it very much. Terri >Terri, I can tell you their names and census data, if that will help. > > >==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== >To use Waldrop Message Board: > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop >To Review Archived messages: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L

Terri, I can tell you their names and census data, if that will help.

At 01:19 AM 7/11/2002 -0400, you wrote: Jan, Thanks so much. I'll get copies of the census and see if I can figure them out. Terri >Terri, I havebeen waiting for someone who knows more than I to answer you, >but it doesn't seems anyone will. I don't know a lot, but perhapos what I >have will steer you in the right direction. > >As you probably know, Hiram and Mahala took their family to Texas. Their >son, Jefferson Davis, known as "Jeff D.", is found in the 1900 Federal Census >in Smith County, Texas. (Vol. 97, E. D. 95, Sheet 11, Line 49?) > >JEFF D. WALDREP, Jly 1861, Age 38, b. AL >SARAH J., Sep 1871, Age 28, b. TX? >THOMAS P., son, May 1889, Age 11, b.TX >MATTIE M., dau, My 1892, Age 8, b. TX >JAMES L., son, Jan 1897, Age 3, b. TX >LUCILLE, dau, Feb 1899, Age 1, b. TX > >There were a few other Waldrep/op/ip families living in Smith County in that >census, but I do not know if they were related. > >Jeff D. died in Smith County, TX on 28 March 1934. (Ref. #15020). > >Jan > > >==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== >To use Waldrop Message Board: > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop >To Review Archived messages: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L

Terri, I havebeen waiting for someone who knows more than I to answer you, but it doesn't seems anyone will. I don't know a lot, but perhapos what I have will steer you in the right direction. As you probably know, Hiram and Mahala took their family to Texas. Their son, Jefferson Davis, known as "Jeff D.", is found in the 1900 Federal Census in Smith County, Texas. (Vol. 97, E. D. 95, Sheet 11, Line 49?) JEFF D. WALDREP, Jly 1861, Age 38, b. AL SARAH J., Sep 1871, Age 28, b. TX? THOMAS P., son, May 1889, Age 11, b.TX MATTIE M., dau, My 1892, Age 8, b. TX JAMES L., son, Jan 1897, Age 3, b. TX LUCILLE, dau, Feb 1899, Age 1, b. TX There were a few other Waldrep/op/ip families living in Smith County in that census, but I do not know if they were related. Jeff D. died in Smith County, TX on 28 March 1934. (Ref. #15020). Jan

Does anyone have any more information on Jefferson Davis Waldrop -- son of Hiram Reynolds Waldrop/Mahala Lout than this? Anyone know where he ended up? I thought I had some info on him, but I must have misplaced it if I did. Terri >I don't know much more about Jeff (Jefferson Davis) Waldrop, except that >the Parrotts remembered him >well as being a part of the household (as hired man) in the early 1880s, and >that he helped in building the Parrott house, which I know was completed by >October 1884. The other hired man who lived there at the same time was >Thomas McGregor, in his thirties -- his family, the McGregors, lived nearby. >[Thomas McGregor and his wife Louisa Maximillian Smith McGregor, were later >murdered in their farm home ca 1902 near Zwolle, and not found until buzzards >were seen flying over the place; the murder was never solved.]

That is certainly interesting. Visit my web site. http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/m/u/r/Buford-J-Murray/index.html <A HREF="http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/m/u/r/Buford-J-Murray/index.html">My web page</A> Marca Lee McInnes Murray

"...the Foxfire books are a compendium of interviews with older Appalachian folk, in an effort to preserve the culture and heritage of the people and their times. These interviews were conducted largely by high school students, coordinated by Eliot Wigginton, in the late 1960s through the middle 1970s, and in many cases the direct or indirect offspring of the people being interviewed. While the people interviewed were from all parts of Appalachia, much of the material concentrates on the Rabun Gap area of northwestern Georgia and Macon County of southwestern North Carolina. The Foxfire books number from 1 through 12 or so, and Foxfire 8 (ISBN 0-385-17741-0), deals largely with Southern potters and ceramacists, which seemed to be a family business. On page 90, there is an interview with an Arie Meaders..." I assumed the page 90 referred to Foxfire Book 8 since it follow in sequence. Perhaps not. I do not know if there is an index.

Hi Folks, I have ordered this book, what is the story? I am disappointed, sure wanted to read this about "Black Bill" myself. Joanne From: <A HREF="mailto:sonnyf@hotmail.com">sonnyf@hotmail.com</A> Got this book and read this section. Didn't see any reference to the part about the negro slave or dark complected. Maybe this note came from somewhere else. There is a reference to Waldrups being in an earlier book. Will try to read that one as well. Would be interesting to know. Sonny From: JanDawson@aol.com >Reply-To: WALDROP-L@rootsweb.com >To: WALDROP-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [WALDROP] Black Dutch >Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 02:34:31 EDT > >There is a series of books called "The Foxfire Books" which contain a >collection of interviews conducted by high school students with older >Appachinan folk in an effort to preserve the culture and heritage of the >people and their times. The interviews were done in northwestern Ga and >southwestern NC in the1960s and 1970s. In Vol. 8, ISBN 0-385-17741-0, p. >90, >are the recollections of Mrs. Arlie Waldrop (b. 1897 in Macon Co., NC) who >mentions Waldrops named Eli Rufus, Jake, Joab Moore, Black Bill, Ned and >Eli. > These are decendants of James Waldroop of Wake Co., NC. > >Mrs. Waldrop claimed that Black Bill was dark "complected" and that the >family claimed he was a mixture of a Negro slave and a white. A Black >Dutch. >Whether or not this was true cannot be proven, but apparently the rest of >the >family was not of the same coloring. Mrs Meadows goes on to say her >Waldrops >came from Ireland. Both of these statements are her observations, and are >not >necessarily fact. > >

This came to me from another list. It may be of interest to those of you that are discussing "Black Dutch". Regards, Bettye > Press release of the Melungeon Heritage Association > Kingsport, Tennessee, June 20, 2002 - Some of the veil of mystery surrounding the "mysterious" Melungeons was lifted today when the results of a two-year DNA study were announced. New questions have been raised, however, concerning females potentially from Turkey and northern India who are a part of the Melungeon ancestry. > > The Melungeons are a group of people of unknown origin first documented in the mountains of Appalachia in the early 19th century. Many believed they were of mixed racial ancestry and the Melungeons faced legal and social discrimination. > As a result, they tended to live in remote areas, most notably Newman's Ridge in Hancock County, Tennessee. In the 1940's and 1950' s, sociologists and anthropologists labeled the Melungeons and other similar groups as "tri-racial isolates." Over the years, numerous myths, legends, and theories evolved to explain the Melungeons' mysterious origins. These legends often involved sailors and explorers from Spain, Portugal, Carthage, or Phoenicia who were stranded on the American continent and intermarried with Indians. The Melungeons themselves often claimed to be "Portyghee." Most researchers believed they were a product of intermarriage between English and Scots-Irish settlers, Indians, and free African-Americans, and discounted their claims of Mediterranean origin. > > The DNA results announced today confirmed that the Melungeons have European, African, and Native American ancestry, as well as genetic similarities with populations in Turkey and northern India. More surprising, however, is the fact that some of these Turkish- and northern Indian- like sequences have been passed through the Melungeons' maternal lines, indicating that their overseas ancestors included not only male sailors and explorers, but females as well. > > The results were announced today at Fourth Union, a Melungeon conference in Kingsport, Tennessee sponsored by the Melungeon Heritage Association (MHA). MHA is a non-profit organization dedicated to promoting research and understanding about Melungeons and other multi-racial groups in the United States. Dr. Kevin Jones, a biologist at the University of Virginia's College at Wise, conducted the study. > > The presence of Turkish and northern Indian haplotypes within the mitochondrial DNA samples taken from modern-day Melungeons indicates that women of European/Asian origin were a part of the original mixture that made up the Melungeon ancestry. Mitochondrial DNA comes from the female side of an individual's ancestry. Previous researchers had assumed that European males intermarried with Native Americans and African-Americans to produce the Melungeons. Although Native and African genes are definitely a part of the Melungeon genetic mix, women were among the overseas settlers who contributed to the Melungeon gene pool. > > Dr. N. Brent Kennedy speculated that the Melungeons were of Mediterranean and Middle Eastern ancestry and published his theories in a book entitled The Melungeons: The Resurrection of a Proud People, published in 1994 by Mercer University Press. > > Dr. Jones, a native of London, England, studied at the University of Reading, and did post-doctoral research at Louisiana State University. He is currently a professor of biology at UVA-Wise, teaching courses including cell biology and genetics. Dr. Jones undertook this DNA study in 2000 at the suggestion of Dr. Kennedy, then vice-chancellor at the University of Virginia's College at Wise. Kennedy asked Jones to analyze DNA samples taken from members of known Melungeon families. Such a study would utilize technology not available to earlier researchers. > > "Brent Kennedy... explained the controversy that surrounded the origins of the Melungeons [and] realized that I had the DNA expertise to look at that," Jones related in an interview with Wayne Winkler, president of the Melungeon Heritage Association and author of an upcoming book about the Melungeons. "The subjects were largely chosen by Brent Kennedy on the basis of pursuing as many of the known Melungeon lineages that existed in the area and taking advantage of his genealogical expertise. People were then asked to donate samples to the study, and in the majority of cases they kindly did so." Single hairs were taken to study the mitochondrial DNA which traces the maternal lines of the subject. In other words, the samples represented DNA, which could be traced to the subject's mother, grandmother, great-grandmother, and so on. "We also have a smaller number of samples which are cheek cells for looking at male inheritance," said Jones. "What we get from those is a DNA sequence which we can think of as being about an 600-long letter code, and we can take that string of 600 letters and compare those to what now is literally thousands of samples from around the world. We're interested both in the number of different sequences that we get from the population and also how they appear to relate to other samples worldwide." > > About 100 hair samples were studied for mitochondrial, or maternal, DNA, and about 30 samples of cheek cells were taken to study the Y-chromosome, or male, DNA. While more samples might have been taken, Jones said, "That's the beauty of science: one can always subsequently refine and extend the analyses." The technology available to Jones allowed him to study only the mitochondrial DNA samples; the Y-chromosome samples were sent to University College in London, England, for study. "The 'Y' is technically far harder to do, and indeed, relies on expertise in some other labs in the world to do it, so we're partly dependent on their cooperation and collaboration." Such testing is not perfect, of course, and does not tell researchers everything about an individual's inheritance. For example, neither test will give genetic information about a subject's paternal grandmother. However, the study was not particularly concerned with individual genealogies. "We're looking for patterns that exist in the population as a whole," according to Jones. "Now, obviously, each individual sample contributes to that, but I think that for an individual you can say relatively little. Looking at the patterns that occur throughout the population becomes important. And that means the number of samples that are looked at is also significant, and we've tried to do as many as is reasonably possible." > > Jones compared these samples to the thousands available through GenBank, an international genetics database, published scientific literature and the Mitochondrial DNA Concordance, databases containing DNA sequence information. Looking at the maternal lines of the Melungeons who were tested, Jones found considerable variation in ethnicity among the samples. "It's comparatively straightforward to link particular sequences to particular ethnic groups and different Continental areas of the world," he noted, "and the majority of those Melungeon-derived sequences were European in origin. Within those European samples, though, there is significant diversity, and some seem to reflect areas outside the traditional northern European sphere. > > "The ability to tie a sequence to a particular area is dependent upon the > historical occurrence of any given haplotype somewhere, and the places that are easy to track are where we've had populations existing for a long time, and not being affected by a lot of different people coming in. So some, perhaps more isolated, areas of Europe are easier to track than more cosmopolitan [areas]." > > While the Melungeons are predominantly European in their genetic backgrounds, they are indeed tri-racial. "The appears to be a small percentage of both Native American and African-American sequences in there, too," Jones stated, "although they are certainly both in the minority. They' re both in there in about equal levels of representation as well." The long-held belief that the Melungeons originated in Portugal is neither borne out nor negated by Jones' research. "To date we've found no sequences that can be definitively traced back to uniquely Portuguese sequences. That doesn't mean that they don't exist. A large number of the European sequences are now widely spread throughout Europe, and if one of those genetic sequences happened to come from Portugal we would not detect that. We can't dismiss that theory at the moment, but we can't provide additional support for it."

Got this book and read this section. Didn't see any reference to the part about the negro slave or dark complected. Maybe this note came from somewhere else. There is a reference to Waldrups being in an earlier book. Will try to read that one as well. Would be interesting to know. Sonny >From: JanDawson@aol.com >Reply-To: WALDROP-L@rootsweb.com >To: WALDROP-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [WALDROP] Black Dutch >Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 02:34:31 EDT > >There is a series of books called "The Foxfire Books" which contain a >collection of interviews conducted by high school students with older >Appachinan folk in an effort to preserve the culture and heritage of the >people and their times. The interviews were done in northwestern Ga and >southwestern NC in the1960s and 1970s. In Vol. 8, ISBN 0-385-17741-0, p. >90, >are the recollections of Mrs. Arlie Waldrop (b. 1897 in Macon Co., NC) who >mentions Waldrops named Eli Rufus, Jake, Joab Moore, Black Bill, Ned and >Eli. > These are decendants of James Waldroop of Wake Co., NC. > >Mrs. Waldrop claimed that Black Bill was dark "complected" and that the >family claimed he was a mixture of a Negro slave and a white. A Black >Dutch. >Whether or not this was true cannot be proven, but apparently the rest of >the >family was not of the same coloring. Mrs Meadows goes on to say her >Waldrops >came from Ireland. Both of these statements are her observations, and are >not >necessarily fact. > > >==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== >To use Waldrop Message Board: > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop >To Review Archived messages: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L > _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

Did your Joseph Waldrop have children: Alberta or Elberta, Evelyn and Donald? Gene genehy@aol.com

Good morning, All - Though I've kind of hit a wall with my Greatgrandfather, Joseph C. Waldrop (1856-1923, B'Ham, AL), I read all of the entries listed. This one really caught my attention not because of a possible connection but because of item#3 and the reference to Hitler being a "Black German" and what caused that. I had noticed in documentaries and newsreel footage that his personal image didn't exactly reflect his idea of the pure Aryan. Does anyone else see the irony here? BTW, as far as my cousins and I can tell, Joseph C.'s (above) father came from NC but we're not sure. I submitted some info and a query back on March 1. I didn't get any "hits" but got some nice and courteous replies. Thanks. I may re-submit and maybe somebody with a connection will see it this time. I enjoy all of the information that everyone is submitting. Makes for good reading and gives a human touch to all of the names and dates and locations, etc. Regards, Michael Davis Athens, AL -----Original Message----- From: JanDawson@aol.com [mailto:JanDawson@aol.com] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 1:09 AM To: WALDROP-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WALDROP] Black Dutch According to the encyclopedia, there were at least six groups of people referred to as Black Dutch. The terms appeared to refer to anyone of dark skin, hair and eyes. Following are the groups described: 1. MELUNGEONS. A mixed race of dark-skinned races, such as Indian, Negro, Spaniards, and Whites. 2. RAMAPOUGH INDIANS. Mixture of Mulattos and Indians. 3. BLACK GERMANS from the Black Forest area of Germany. They had black hair and dark skins instead of the blond hair and blue eyes of the northern Germans. Supposedly the darker coloring came from an interbreeding with African mercenary soldiers black in the Roman Empire days. (Hitler was a Black Dutch.) 4. GYPSIES. (Not their technical name). 5. DUTCH (DEUTSCH) and BELGIAN JEWS. 6. MULATTOS. Mixture of Negro and white races. There are many web sites explaining Black Dutch. You can find them using your search engine. I know of only one Waldrop documented to have been called "Black Dutch." More about him in the next message. Jan ______________________________

I have a land deed as do many other descendants of Ezekiah P. Waldrop that describe a slave named patience and her Mulatto daughter. I have always known what that mean't, but the troubling part is who was the father? Was it Exekiah? One of his sons? If so, then when this young fella was sold, they were selling their own flesh and blood. Interesting document. Ray ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Hey, I think I just learned something new from you or else something I knew and had forgotten. Was Black Bill actually William Eli Wardrope? Had a bunch of kids with Nancy Lowery? Don't think I knew about the Foxfire reference. Would certainly like to know more about all this info. Sonny >From: Joyce70356@aol.com >Reply-To: WALDROP-L@rootsweb.com >To: WALDROP-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [WALDROP] Black Dutch >Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 07:57:43 EDT > >Hi Jan, >The Black Dutch Waldrops you mentioned from the Foxfire Book are my >Waldrops, >and Black Bill was my GGGG Grandfather. He was married to Nancy Lowery. >There >are many connections to "Mulatto" or "Melungeon" with my Waldrops, with his >generation and following generations. I love to hear from anyone who has >this >family connection. Thanks. >Joanne C. > >My surnames: >WALDROOP (many variations), SCAFFE (many variations), ROBERTS, GIBSON, >COOPER, ELLISON, FITZGERALD, GRIFFIN, PEOPLES, SADLER, SMITH, SIMS, CHAVIS, >LOWERY, HENRY, MONTGOMERY > > >==== WALDROP Mailing List ==== >To use Waldrop Message Board: > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/wal/Waldrop >To Review Archived messages: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WALDROP-L _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

Hi Sonny, Yes "Black Bill" was William Eli Waldrop. I hadn't heard of him possibly being the son of a slave and his daddy, but since hearing about old Franklin Layfayette and his two families living next door to each other, nothing is surprising anymore, just interesting! I will try to dig up all references I have of Black Bill and send them along to you. Your cousin, Joanne

Hi Jan, The Black Dutch Waldrops you mentioned from the Foxfire Book are my Waldrops, and Black Bill was my GGGG Grandfather. He was married to Nancy Lowery. There are many connections to "Mulatto" or "Melungeon" with my Waldrops, with his generation and following generations. I love to hear from anyone who has this family connection. Thanks. Joanne C. My surnames: WALDROOP (many variations), SCAFFE (many variations), ROBERTS, GIBSON, COOPER, ELLISON, FITZGERALD, GRIFFIN, PEOPLES, SADLER, SMITH, SIMS, CHAVIS, LOWERY, HENRY, MONTGOMERY

There is a series of books called "The Foxfire Books" which contain a collection of interviews conducted by high school students with older Appachinan folk in an effort to preserve the culture and heritage of the people and their times. The interviews were done in northwestern Ga and southwestern NC in the1960s and 1970s. In Vol. 8, ISBN 0-385-17741-0, p. 90, are the recollections of Mrs. Arlie Waldrop (b. 1897 in Macon Co., NC) who mentions Waldrops named Eli Rufus, Jake, Joab Moore, Black Bill, Ned and Eli. These are decendants of James Waldroop of Wake Co., NC. Mrs. Waldrop claimed that Black Bill was dark "complected" and that the family claimed he was a mixture of a Negro slave and a white. A Black Dutch. Whether or not this was true cannot be proven, but apparently the rest of the family was not of the same coloring. Mrs Meadows goes on to say her Waldrops came from Ireland. Both of these statements are her observations, and are not necessarily fact.

According to the encyclopedia, there were at least six groups of people referred to as Black Dutch. The terms appeared to refer to anyone of dark skin, hair and eyes. Following are the groups described: 1. MELUNGEONS. A mixed race of dark-skinned races, such as Indian, Negro, Spaniards, and Whites. 2. RAMAPOUGH INDIANS. Mixture of Mulattos and Indians. 3. BLACK GERMANS from the Black Forest area of Germany. They had black hair and dark skins instead of the blond hair and blue eyes of the northern Germans. Supposedly the darker coloring came from an interbreeding with African mercenary soldiers black in the Roman Empire days. (Hitler was a Black Dutch.) 4. GYPSIES. (Not their technical name). 5. DUTCH (DEUTSCH) and BELGIAN JEWS. 6. MULATTOS. Mixture of Negro and white races. There are many web sites explaining Black Dutch. You can find them using your search engine. I know of only one Waldrop documented to have been called "Black Dutch." More about him in the next message. Jan