In a message dated 11/02/2002 7:10:32 PM Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes: << Bates (Jacob, Phineas, Joseph C.) or John Milton Short and wife Lucy Lawton? There might have also been some Shattucks (Ephraim, Silas) >> I have BATEs as follows: Milton Bates on 1804 census m. Electa b. 1807 census. Children of Milton Bates and Electa are: Albert E. b. 1833 m. Nancy Jane Mead Charles Edwin b. Sept 15, 1836 m. Mary E. Hart Albert Bates b. 1833 m. June 4, 1863 Nancy Jane Mead. Nancy was the daughter of Andrew Mead and Nancy Marshall. They had Etta Jane b. Jan 22, 1870 m Burton R. French. Charles Edwin Bates b. Sept 15, 1835 Ludlow m. Mary E. Hart b. May 7, 1844 d. Sep 8, 1908 Ludlow Bennett Bates b ? d. Aug 20, 1882 m. Hannah A ________ Children were; George b. April 8, 1873; Ela b. July 23, 1875; and Jeremiah Marcus b. Oct 8 , 1877. Job F. Bates m. Caroline F Cluff One child Josephine L. b. Boston d. Sept 18, 18887 m. Briggs Hope this helps some. Marilyn