Hey all, I know this is starting to get old. But the venom from the SS list just knows no bounds. So, lesson learned, even though no matter what you day may end up offending someone, the rewards and answers and correspondence in return have more than made up for the ugliness that some people just have to vent over. OK...total overall results. Kicked off of one list for being "off topic" and a huge f lame war on that list, causing ten people to quit the list altogether. (That is the South Side Virginia list....no wonder my ancestor moved away from there). St. Louis list--friendly banter and very good feed-back with a more diverse audience--and no hard feelings except one poor woman who was waiting for an excuse to complain. Germanna list-also great feedback and this list has a lot of very good reseachers who know the ropes. KILBY list is small and no responses from them, though some belong to other lists. VA-General. Only response was from a member of the SS list who sent me the same whining letter twice. (She would have sent it three times except I was kicked off the SS list.) Bottom line, don't be afraid to try new methods and don't be afraid to ask others what they think about something. Regardless of some of the stuff that happened, I think it was a great experiment (although it had some unintended consequences). Don't be shy, and love thy neighbor as you love thyself! Thank to EVERYONE who helped in this. Craig > From: qvarizona <[email protected]> > Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:04:20 -0800 (PST) > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [VIRGINIA] Before we read the envelope > Resent-From: [email protected] > Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 11:04:26 -0700 > > Craig, > > You forgot the third type of person who uses these lists: The Presumer. > That's the one who knows more than anyone else, and is absolutely certain > the "rest" of us, (1) use these lists just to learn what the Presumer knows, > and (2) are eternally thankful for the tidbits of nonsense he tosses to > them. > > Joanne > > PS From both your test and your answers, I suggest you "presumeth too > much". > > > Craig Kilby <[email protected]> wrote: > OK everyone, I PROMISE I am about to write the answer to the "quiz", > despite all the flames, which will not deter me. The biggest shock of all > was a very NICE letter from the Culpeper list administrator saying how she > loved this, and another one from the turd who runs the Southside Virginia > list threatening anyone who dared to respond to my quiz with eviction from > "his' list. (Uh, wonder how the people at Rootsweb would take that?). Well, > as we have seen, just goes to prove there are nice people and nasty people > out there. Odd, isn't it? The ones who want to impose all the "rules" that > you don't know about are the very ones who don't apply them to themselves. > Man, I never thought I'd say this, but it's enough to make me vote Democrat! > > Now here is my last message before the answer, which will not have any > editorials (and yes, I think you many last-minute answerers...you have given > some good insights but I think they are MOSTLY well covered in the original > nine)....may all of you have a great new year and learn to love one another, > and treat each other with respect and love. > > Best as always, > Craig > > > Craig Kilby > [email protected] > EarthLink Revolves Around You. > > > ==== VIRGINIA Mailing List ==== > To post to the Virginia list send a message to: > [email protected] > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. > > > ==== VIRGINIA Mailing List ==== > To post to the Virginia list send a message to: > [email protected] > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >

Craig, You forgot the third type of person who uses these lists: The Presumer. That's the one who knows more than anyone else, and is absolutely certain the "rest" of us, (1) use these lists just to learn what the Presumer knows, and (2) are eternally thankful for the tidbits of nonsense he tosses to them. Joanne PS From both your test and your answers, I suggest you "presumeth too much". Craig Kilby <[email protected]> wrote: OK everyone, I PROMISE I am about to write the answer to the "quiz", despite all the flames, which will not deter me. The biggest shock of all was a very NICE letter from the Culpeper list administrator saying how she loved this, and another one from the turd who runs the Southside Virginia list threatening anyone who dared to respond to my quiz with eviction from "his' list. (Uh, wonder how the people at Rootsweb would take that?). Well, as we have seen, just goes to prove there are nice people and nasty people out there. Odd, isn't it? The ones who want to impose all the "rules" that you don't know about are the very ones who don't apply them to themselves. Man, I never thought I'd say this, but it's enough to make me vote Democrat! Now here is my last message before the answer, which will not have any editorials (and yes, I think you many last-minute answerers...you have given some good insights but I think they are MOSTLY well covered in the original nine)....may all of you have a great new year and learn to love one another, and treat each other with respect and love. Best as always, Craig Craig Kilby [email protected] EarthLink Revolves Around You. ==== VIRGINIA Mailing List ==== To post to the Virginia list send a message to: [email protected] ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.

This is all very interesting. The family in question is from Culpeper County, VA, with ties to Southside Virginia, and who moved to St. Louis, MO. Hence the reasons for the lists I chose to send this to. The manager of the Southside Virginia list simply kicked me off his listy for simply for writing this query.There are truly two very different personalities out there....(1) those with a sense of humor, inwquisitivieness, and a sense of adventure and direction and (2) those who cannot realize new ideas and abhor everything and everybody because they lack trait #1. I've learned a lot more than I bargained for in this little experiment. Way more than I bargained for! Boy, I'm glad I fall in category #1. if we left everything up to category #2, there would have never seen a westward expansion and this country wouldn't even exist. This experiment has resulted in the most bizarre of reactions. > [Original Message] > From: Kathleen Burnett <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Date: 12/26/2005 6:19:36 PM > Subject: Re: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] Before we read the envelope > > Ok, I think I need to step in here....on the list, which I don't often do. Besides being the List Admin for this list I am also the list admin for the Culpeper Co., VA mailing list ALSO and I did not say I loved this conversation or even the quiz but that is me and I have no problem with it being posting on the list as long as it has to do with genealogy and the area the lists covers. > > So....if you like the quiz so be it, and if you do not, then you respond to the sender OFF LIST. This list is NOT for the discussion of the pros and cons of a posting and or the reaction of other lists, list members or List > Admin. > > This subject is closed. > > Kathleen Burnett > List Mom > > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Craig Kilby <[email protected]> > >Sent: Dec 26, 2005 4:46 PM > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] Before we read the envelope > > > >OK everyone, I PROMISE I am about to write the answer to the "quiz", despite all the flames, which will not deter me. The biggest shock of all was a very NICE letter from the Culpeper list administrator saying how she loved this, and another one from the turd who runs the Southside Virginia list threatening anyone who dared to respond to my quiz with eviction from "his' list. (Uh, wonder how the people at Rootsweb would take that?). Well, as we have seen, just goes to prove there are nice people and nasty people out there. Odd, isn't it? The ones who want to impose all the "rules" that you don't know about are the very ones who don't apply them to themselves. Man, I never thought I'd say this, but it's enough to make me vote Democrat! > > > >Now here is my last message before the answer, which will not have any editorials (and yes, I think you many last-minute answerers...you have given some good insights but I think they are MOSTLY well covered in the original nine)....may all of you have a great new year and learn to love one another, and treat each other with respect and love. > > > >Best as always, > >Craig > > > > > >Craig Kilby > >[email protected] > >EarthLink Revolves Around You. > > > > > >==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > >To unsubscribe from this list, send ONLY the word UNSUBSCRIBE to the utility address [email protected] If you are trying to unsubscribe from the Digest list, use the same utility address but change the -L- to a -D- > > > > > > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, political announcements, current events, items for sale, personal messages, flames, etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will be grounds for removal. Consideration for exceptions, contact Kathleen Burnett [email protected]

OK all, here is what really happened with the will of "Thomas Smith." Many thanks to all who tackled the problem. The real name of the testator was my father, Thomas Parker Kilby. The dates are real. His place of residence at the time he wrote the will and at the time he died was Lake St. Louis, St. Charles County, Missouri (a suburb of St. Louis). I did not mention that fact in the "quiz" but several of you raised the question of his locale, which was good. Though his full name was Thomas Parker Kilby, he never went by anything, even on his driver's license, than Parker Kilby. The only record of his first name is in the obituary, because that is what went on the death certificate. The informants for the death certificate should have known better--the undertaker who was a close family friend and his son whom I called Tommy in my quiz. The four sons are: 1. "Kevin", the oldest, living in Virginia Beach. He is a retired Navy Commander and it was astute of the one respondent to pick up on this fact. He has two children. 2. "Monty", living in Heidelberg German at the time the will was written but living outside of Frankfurt at the time the will was proved, had no military service. He had married a German woman and moved there in the early 1980s. He had three children. This one was tricky and explains why he was named last in the will, but second in the obituary. He is the adoptive son of the testator, a son by his wife's first marriage. In birth order and in the family structure, he is #2 but legally is the last son, as he was not adopted legally until age 16. 3. "Cary" and "Tommy "are sons #3 and #4 and both were living in the St. Louis area when the will was written and when it was proved. 4. No one picked up on this, and in fact I never picked up on it until I read the obit again. The obit says that Thomas Smith was "buried in Memorial Gardens Cemetery with no services. " This is absolutely NOT true. "Thomas" was cremated, there was no interment anywhere, and there is no such place as Memorial Gardens (unless that is a made up place used for people who are cremated), but there WAS a wonderful memorial service held at a restaurant per the testator's instructions (which were never put in the will, but carried out nonetheless). 5. The will did name the eldest son "Kevin" as the executor, though he lived out of state. I would never recommend naming someone who lives out of state to be one's executor. It only complicated things. If you ARE named executor and DO live out of state, please do everyone a favor and refuse the burden. There is no law stating the oldest son has to be the executor. There is no law stating an attorney has to handle the affairs. In this case, in fact, the son "Cary" did all of the legal work while both the attorney and the executor collected all the legal fees they could claim by law. Lessons learned: Things are not always as they appear at first blush. Analyze all documents and make a list of questions to be answered and clues to be pursued. I am really impressed with some of the ways people approached this problem, and I truly thank all of you who took the time to respond. It was as much of a learning experience for me as I hope it has been for most of you. Happy New Year to all of you, Kindest Regards, Craig Kilby, aka "Cary" in the quiz Craig Kilby [email protected] EarthLink Revolves Around You.

OK everyone, I PROMISE I am about to write the answer to the "quiz", despite all the flames, which will not deter me. The biggest shock of all was a very NICE letter from the Culpeper list administrator saying how she loved this, and another one from the turd who runs the Southside Virginia list threatening anyone who dared to respond to my quiz with eviction from "his' list. (Uh, wonder how the people at Rootsweb would take that?). Well, as we have seen, just goes to prove there are nice people and nasty people out there. Odd, isn't it? The ones who want to impose all the "rules" that you don't know about are the very ones who don't apply them to themselves. Man, I never thought I'd say this, but it's enough to make me vote Democrat! Now here is my last message before the answer, which will not have any editorials (and yes, I think you many last-minute answerers...you have given some good insights but I think they are MOSTLY well covered in the original nine)....may all of you have a great new year and learn to love one another, and treat each other with respect and love. Best as always, Craig Craig Kilby [email protected] EarthLink Revolves Around You.

No report would be complete without the always the Bitchy Bob and Nagging Nanny. File such responses for future reference, because no matter what you do or how you do it, somebody is not going to like it, and slam you after all is said and done. Just ain't no accountin' for some people. Craig Kilby [email protected]> [Original Message] > From: Bob Juch <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Date: 12/26/2005 2:02:13 PM > Subject: RE: [VACULPEP] Responses and Answers to the Quiz > > Craig, > > Quiz? What quiz? All you asked was, "IF YOU WERE PRESENTED WITH THE > FOLLOWING WILL, AND KNEW NOTHING ELSE OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAN WHAT THE > WILL TOLD YOU, WHAT WOULD BE YOUR CONCLUSIONS?" > > I don't call that a quiz. All the will tells me about relationships is that > the four sons inherited from their father. > > Why did you include an abstract from the obituary if you wanted us to > consider only the will? > > Bob Juch > http://www.Juch.org > > > ==== VACULPEP Mailing List ==== > If you wish to unsubscribe from the Culpeper Co., VA mailing list, send only the word UNSUBSCRIBE to [email protected] if you are on the Digest list to [email protected] > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx

To anyone out there paying attention. I heartily congratulate the people who responded to the purposfully amibiguous quiz I sent out, regarding the will and estate of "Thomas Smith." It was sent to the following lists: 1. Germanna: FIVE Responses from (1) Cary Anderson (2) someone named [email protected], (3) Frances as [email protected], who says she did not respond to the quiz, (4) Fran Russell and (5) Mary Ellis 2. Virginia "General" list,. No repsonses. 3. Southside Virginia List. No responses 4. Culpeper County List. No responses, but some personal correspondance came back. 5. St. Louis Metro List. Six responses. The first only said he'd have all four arrested for murder, which prompted a flame war with the 2nd response, and it went on from there. Discounting those two and all the subsequent flames, there were four real responses to the actual query. Total responses to five lists: 9 Now, let's review the actual query and quiz question, look at the responses, and then I will give the real story. To begin, everyone had a very good take on one or more aspects of the question, and given the vague nature of how I put it, this was impressive. OK. The original question was this: IF YOU WERE PRESENTED WITH THE FOLLOWING WILL, AND KNEW NOTHING ELSE OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAN WHAT THE WILL TOLD YOU, WHAT WOULD BE YOUR CONCLUSIONS? WILL OF "THOMAS SMITH" SIGNED 28 AUG 1987, PROVED SOMETIME IN 1996 THE WILL NAMES NO WIFE AND NO GRANDCHILDREN, BUT ONLY NAMES FOUR SONS, ALL TO SHARE EQUALLY. 1. KEVIN SMITH 2. CARY SMITH 3. TOMMY SMITH 4. MONTY SMITH ALL FOUR TO SERVE AS EXECUTORS IN THAT ORDER. THE OBITUARY SAYS THAT THOMAS SMITH DIED 24 JULY 1996, THAT HE WAS INTERRED IN MEMORIAL PARK CEMETERY WITH NO SERVICES, AND WAS SURVIVED BY FOUR SONS AND FIVE GRANDCHILDREN. THE FIVE GRANDCHILDREN ARE NOT NAMED, BUT THE FOUR SONS ARE NAMED IN THIS ORDER: 1. KEVIN SMITH OF VIRGINIA BEACH, VA 2. MONTY SMITH OF HEIDLEBERG, GERMANY 3. CARY SMITH OF ST. LOUIS, MO 4. TOMMY SMITH OF DEFIANCE, MO ______________________________________ While this is deliberately vague, the respondents all picked up on different clues to help solve the riddle. Some just wrote to express interest in the responses. For those actually took up the gauntle, I sghall let them all speak for themselves (no names given as to who said what). Response #1: "I don't keep a data base so I would imput nothing. I would type the will exactly as I found [it] and save in Word as well as a printed copy for the file cabinet--the old fashioned four drawer, metal thing. I would also type the obituary as found and do the same." Response #2: "Notes: Will of Thomas Smith Signed 28 AUG 1987 Proved sometime in 1996 Mentions only son's [sic] Kevin, Monte [sic] Cary and Tommy. All four to serve as executors and to share in the estate equally. All information comes from Mr. Craig Kilby of Virginia (my email address included in the citation). This respondent is the only one who cited her references and what she was addressing. This is pretty good except for mispelling of the possessive "son's" instead of the plursal "sons", and misreading of Monte with an "e" when I wrote Monty with a "y". See how easy it is for tiny mistakes to creep in? Response #3. Original email quoted in advance, with the note "I think this covers all the information known at this time of this Thomas Smith. I would probably add the birth dates of the sex of children as male and birth dates prior to 8/8/87, since they were mentioned when the will was made." What this letter seems to want to suggest is that further research would be necessary before making any firm conclusions, but does make the good point of at least entering the sex of the four children, as all are called "sons" in both the will and obituary." Response #4 "In my files, wife would be listed as 'unknown???' I would list Kevin as the oldest, since he appears in both lists first. His 'born' would be 'ABT YYYY'. The other three, I would list them as born 'ABT YYY'. I would make a note in my file that no birth order was established in documentation that I had, and make a note to research it when I get to be old and grey, when that census comes out!" This writer is correct in determining that Kevin is the eldest for the reason he gave, though information we have does not explicityly tell us that. Kudo's for jumping out on a limb and running with a Hypothesis--which we must all do--and good cover with the notation that further research that is needed to prove the theory. Response #5 This one is one of my favorites. This person picked up on two key facts that any of us could have easily overlooked, but also made an erroneous assumption about possibly other children. (There could have been other children, but to leave them out of a will would have invited court challenges). "Based on all material available to date - we've been busy with church services. (1) Thomas Smith the elder was probably married at least once. (2) Thomas Smith the elder was survived by four sons; there may have been more children who either pre-deceased him or were disinherited by the will. (2) Kevin Smith may be the oldest son (4) Monty Smith is probably a distinquished member of his country's miltary. (5) Which leads me to wonder - is there a Navy base in Virginia Beach? (6) Adding information about five nameless grandchildren makes me wonder about the possibility of a now-deceased former Miss Smith. (7) What else is in that obituary? This one does raise some thoughts. The writer infers that since Monty Smith is living in Heidleberg, Germany (according to the obituatary) he is probably a distinguised member of the military. Not the case. HOWEVER, son Kevin in Virginia Beach was a distinguished member of the US Navy Airforce. Though not connecting the right dots, this writer is certainly headed in the right direction and picking up on small clues. This writer also raises questions about the mother of the children, and the possibility that a former spouse (or spouses) may be dead. Read on. Response #6. "Thomas Smith signed Will August 28, 1987; died July 24, 1996. No wife named in will: assume divorced otherwise a deceased wife would have been so identified when the Will was drawn up. Will names four sons to be Executor in order named. An executor distributes the estate. "Proving" the will means the Will has been filed of record in the Probate Court. One one person is an Executor; the eldest living son. If decedent had an attorney handling his affairs, the attorney would file the Will of record in Probate, then proceed to locate the eldest living son who will become Executor. The attorney is an administrator, not the Executor unless the eldest living son is an attorney. The son's [plural] residence[s] at the time the Will is drawn up is stated to assist to locate the eldest living son at Testator's death. "A will always [CMK: "ALWAYS" IS ALWAYS A WRONG ANSWER ON A TEST] names children in birth order. Newspaper death notice names children in birth order. [CMK: will does not name children in birth order, but there is a reason for this. The obituary does name them in birth order. The writer here needs to decide which is ALWAYS right]. The fact that grandchildren are mentioned in the newspaper death notice is only relevent to distribution of the estate if one or more of the four sons are deceased and sired children. Then, one or more children of a deceased son would inherit his share of the estate, share and share alike, which the Will would state. "Birth order of sons: Kevin, Monty, [C]Gary, Tommy. Decedent was the natural or adoptive father of the four sons; otherwise one or more would have been identified as stepsons." Now this one really covers a lot of ground and a lot of possibilities. The only flaw is that the reasoning--while correct--is based on twowrong assumptions. An obituary naming "unnamed grandchildren" would not be a legal cause to establish heredity, let alone a share in the estate. Only the will can establish that. Second, a will names an exectutor, this is true, but it does not have to be the oldest child. The reason for giving places of residence is to put on record the last known place where an heir had lived, but not simply to find them to be an executor. Last, an attorney does not have to handle an estate, though this is often the case. An attorney is never the executor unless expressly named so in the will. This letter is taking up too much cyber space, so the "real" answer will be another post. BTW....nobody caught the part about where he was buried with no services. That will be in the answer of next post. Craig Kilby [email protected] EarthLink Revolves Around You.

A Yuletide feast to remember Tantalizingly terse account of a Kecoughtan Christmas piques scholars' interest BY MARK ST. JOHN ERICKSON 247-4783 December 25, 2005 Hampton Roads was in the worst of moods when Capt. John Smith tried to cross its waters during the Christmas of 1608. Traveling in two boats with about 40 men, he'd set out from Jamestown the day before, intent on boosting the colony's failing food supply by trading for Indian corn. But as the expedition ended an overnight stay at the village of Warraskoyack - located near present-day Smithfield on the Pagan River - the mercurial Tidewater weather had other ideas. Sailing past the mouth of the James River - then known as Powhatan Flu, Smith and his companions rounded what is now Newport News and made for the village of Kecoughtan on the Hampton River. That's when the rising winds and combative seas erupted into a full-fledged nor'easter. Miserably hungry, wet and cold, the hard-luck crew put ashore, possibly thinking of the times back home when their Yuletide holidays had been a much jollier occasion. Little did they know that over the next six or seven days they would not only fill their empty stomachs but also celebrate English America's first recorded Christmas in an unexpectedly happy fashion. "... the extreame wind, raine, frost, and snowe, caused us to keepe Christmas among the Salvages," Smith would report, describing the hostile weather conditions. Then - in an uncharacteristically warm recollection - he went on to observe that "wee were never more merrie, nor fedde on more plentie of good oysters, fish, flesh, wild foule, and good bread, nor never had better fires in England than in the drie warme smokie houses of Kecoughtan." Nearly 400 years later, Smith's bright, brief quote is so tantalizingly vivid - especially given the colony's persistent trials - that many readers feel as if they had been short-changed by his terseness. They also wonder what more he might have revealed about his visit. "It's so neat - and it's such a teaser. This notion of 'keeping Christmas' is so English," says Nancy Egloff, a historian with the Jamestown-Yorktown Foundation. "But then we don't know anything more about what happened - except for a couple of sentences." Even with this nagging lapse in Smith's report, however, it's still possible to fill in many of the blanks from other sources. Kecoughtan's strategic position at the entrance to Hampton Roads made it one of the most visited places in early Virginia, scholars say. And judging by the unusually detailed and numerous descriptions the colonists left, their unscheduled stay couldn't have found a much better haven. Indeed, not long after they discovered the site on April 30, 1607, the English recognized what the Indians already knew: Kecoughtan occupied "a comparatively high, wholsome and fruictfull" piece of land - especially measured against the swampy environs of Jamestown. As many as 3,000 acres might have been cleared for farming - a practice at which the inhabitants were judged to be more expert than any of their neighbors. Fruit trees abounded, added colonist William Strachey in his 1610 report - and they were accompanied by rich sources of gooseberries, cherries and plums. Good fishing was a near-certainty because of the proximity of the Chesapeake Bay and the combined fertility of the James and Hampton rivers. Like Smith, Strachey also noted the abundance of cornfields and the manner in which the bays, coves and creeks conjoined to "make that place very pleasant to inhabit." "... Kecoughtan ... is an ample and faire Country indeed," he concluded. "We have more quotes for Kecoughtan than for any other place in early Virginia - and every one of them talks about it as a great place to live," says E. Randolph Turner III, head of the Tidewater office of the state Department of Historic Resources, who has compiled a comprehensive list of the colonists' descriptions. "The land was wonderful. The harbor was convenient and ample. It was a very, very favorable environment because of the quality of the soil and the rich resources of the rivers and the bay. So when the English saw it, they described it with very graphic words. It clearly got their attention." Mapmakers pounced on the village, too, making Kecoughtan one of the most often recorded native landmarks of the early Colonial period. It shows up prominently on Smith's famous map of 1608, which locates it between the east bank of the Hampton River and Old Point Comfort in what is now the vicinity of the Hampton Veterans Administration Medical Center. Even more explicit, Turner says, is a map that Spanish ambassador to England Pedro de Zuniga may have traced from Smith's original in 1608. A second English map produced by Robert Tindall the same year confirms this location. Though no traces of native structures have yet been found, a 1993 archaeological study of the medical center site turned up other evidence that makes these maps look authoritative. "Sometimes village sites like this can be deceiving. They can be tricky to pinpoint," says Tom Higgins, now with the James River Institute for Archaeology, who helped conduct the survey for the College of William and Mary. "Though we didn't find any archaeological features, we did turn up a good amount of simple stamped Roanoke ceramics shards, and they're a hallmark - a signature - of Late Woodland and contact-period Indian settlements. But they were broad and widespread over a pretty good area instead of being concentrated in one place." Before being decimated by Powhatan's warriors in the later 1590s, Kecoughtan may have boasted 1,000 inhabitants and as many as 300 houses, making it one of the largest and most prosperous settlements on the lower Chesapeake Bay. Following defeat it declined rapidly, becoming a modest tributary of the great chief's growing empire. By the time English arrived, the site contained only 18 houses and some 60 or 70 people, Smith reported after a 1607 visit. But its diminished size did nothing to lessen the attractions of its dry, warm houses or the hospitality of its people. Framed with saplings that were sunk into the ground at one end, then bent over and lashed into an arch at the other, the domelike dwellings were covered with such smartly woven reed mats that they remained watertight and comfortable in the most miserable weather. Smith and his companions would have entered to find knee-high sleeping benches covered with animal hides and arranged in a circle around a well-tended fire. Smoke would have billowed across the 12-to-15-foot-high ceilings before exiting through a rainproof hole in the roof. Baskets of dried corn, beans, peas and other vegetables would have crowded the walls, while shanks of dried and smoked meat and seafood would have hung down from the framework of saplings. "It was kind of like living in a combination of your garage, your bedroom and your pantry," says Frank Hardister, supervisor of the re-created Powhatan Indian village at Jamestown Settlement. "The houses were primarily single-family homes, and they were used primarily for storage, shelter and sleeping." Just how the English quartered among the Indians isn't clear. But Egloff suspects that it took a substantial effort to accommodate so many unexpected guests - and that Smith may have spent some time with Powhatan's son Pochin, who was the village's leader. She also believes that Kecoughtan's well-documented prosperity may have combined with a time of plenty to produce a feast comparable to the Christmas meals the settlers remembered. "It was just at the end of the harvest season - and just after the end of a major hunting season - so they probably had ample reserves," she says. "And when you see Smith's description, it's pretty clear that they had a lot of food." Though some brave soul may have retrieved fresh oysters from the iced-over Hampton Flats, it's likely that the succulent bivalve was served smoked, dried and then rehydrated in a tasty vegetable stew. Dried and smoked fish might have been prepared in much the same fashion, Hardister says. Husk bread made from boiled corn meal and ashcakes baked in the fire pit would have been an important complement to these dishes. "Husk bread is very moist," Hardister says, "and little difficult to describe. But ashcakes taste just like cornbread - unseasoned, with no salt, sugar or butter. You just have to brush off the coals and ashes to eat them." Ripe persimmons and nuts could be expected because of the late fall season. Roast venison and wild fowl - including turkeys, geese and ducks - probably provided the centerpiece to the meals. Judging from Smith's unusually warm description, they also helped the settlers forget - if only for a few days - the hunger and hardship that was a daily part of life at Jamestown. "You haven't lived until you've had turkey roasted over an open fire," Hardister says. "The flavor from the smoke really makes it good - and it's a lot juicier. The fat just seems to soak through the meat."

If you were presented with the following will, and knew nothing else of the circumstances than what the will told you, what would be your conclusions?: Will of "Thomas Smith" Signed 28 AUG 1987, proved sometime in 1996. The will names no wife and no grandchildren, but only names four sons, all to share equally: 1. Kevin Smith 2. Cary Smith 3. Tommy Smith 4. Monty Smith All four to serve as executors in the order given above. The obituary says that Thomas Smith died 24 July 1996, that he was interred in Memorial Park Cemetery with no services, and was survived by four sons: 1. Kevin Smith of Virginia Beach, VA 2. Monty Smith of Heidleberg, Germany 3. Cary Smith of St. Louis, MO 4. Tommy Smith of Defiance, MO Given this information, how would you input this family into your data base, and on what conclusions. (Answer to this quiz will follow, but this is just for fun to see how we all analyze the data we have at hand). Craig Kilby [email protected] EarthLink Revolves Around You.

Hi all, I have created some new Amelia County pages, my new website is called Amelia County news calendar, 1890-1925. I am attempting to post alot of news of Amelia County over the years from 1890-1925. I am searching alot of old records and old newspapers for this news. The URL for the main page of my newest site is: http://vagenealogy.homestead.com/Ameconews.html I will be adding more information to this sote from time to time. I hope you can find some of your ancestors on these pages. And if you want to check out my website: Miscellaneous Virginia Genealogy at: http://vagenealogy.homestead.com/ I hope that both of these sites will be helpful to you. Merry Christmas! God bless, Beth

Apologies for cross-posting! I wanted to let you know that I am changing my email address to [email protected] effective immediately. Please update your address books accordingly. Thanks, Jeremy http://jeremyjtaylor.tripod.com *Updated October 23rd 2005* "We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children." ~Native American Proverb

Hi, I am looking for an obituary for Rasmus Carey. Rasmus Carey Died July ?, 1974 in Bedford, Bedford City, VA. Rasmus was born 4 October 1889 in Liberty, Bedford, VA. He was married to Kate W. Carey. I have seen his name spelled different ways, Ras, Rasmuis and Rasmus. Thanks for any help you can give me. Anna Adams

Hi, I am looking for information on a marriage between Jordan H. Carey and Matilda Watkins, I believe they were married in Liberty, Bedford, VA probably between about 1898 and 1910, but may be outside those dates. Jordan H. Carey was born November 1888 in Liberty, Bedford, VA, his parents names were Stephen Carey and Ann (Maiden Name Unknown) Carey. Matilda Watkins was born 8 March 1891 somewhere in VA. Here parents were Liza (Maiden name unknown) Watkins and Unknown Watkins. Any information on this family would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Anna Adams

Hi all, The following is from "The Blackstone Courier," Blackstone, Va., Friday, June 16, 1905 issue, page 6. "Married at North Carolina. TREE, June 14.-Miss Eunice Bracey Nash, a popular young lady of Brunswick county, and Mr. John Wiley Nash,of Mecklenburg county, were married on Tuesday June 6th at the Massenburg Hotel Henderson N. C., by Rev. Mr. Hinderlight of the Presbyterian church. Those that went with them were Mr. D. Virgil Nash brother of the bride, Miss Ola M. Lanier, neice[sic] of the bride, Messrs Henry and Willie Nash brothers of the groom. Mr. and Mrs. Nash went to the home of groom's mother Wednesday night. Where a nice reception awaited them. The groom is a popular young farmer of Wightman Mecklenburg county. The bride is a daughter of Mr. W. J.A. Nash, she attended Shenandoah Normal College Reliance Va., and the past session taught school near Turner, All wish them much happiness." I am not related to the persons mentioned in the article so I do not have any more information on them. Just thought it may help someone on the list. God bless, Beth [email protected] website: Old Virginia Obits, 1790-1940: http://virginiaobits.homestead.com/

Three of the gravesites had Virginia and Alabama on the markers, so we are posting all the gravesites within the small enclosed area here in hopes that someone can use the information on this family. The gravesites are on a hill just on the West side of Hale County Highway 21 and just north of the intersection of Hale County Road 34 and Highway 21. Should anyone have any questions, my e-mail address is: [email protected] Nannie Baker Murfee March 4, 1929 Aunt Minnie Lydia Beale Murfee February 26, 1848 -- September 21, 1914 Walter Scott Murfee Virginia Alabama 1861 -- 1909 James Wilson Murfee Virginia Alabama 1808 -- 1889 Elizabeth S. Edwards Wife of James Wilson Murfee Virginia Alabama 1834 -- 1906 Wilson A. Murfee 1863 -- 1871 Virginia R. Murfee 1868 -- 1871 Eugene Winn Murfee March 27, 1933 Annie Elizabeth Gewin November 18, 1900 -- January 23, 1923 Charles Abner Gewin October 23, 1872 -- April 11, 1935

Gravesites are in the Mount Zion Cemetery in Perry County, Alabama, on County Road 29. The cemetery is approximately 10 miles East of Alabama Highway 25. John Blackburn Born in Virginia June 30, 1760 -- December 24, 1853 Aged 93 years, 5 months, and 24 days Nancy Blackburn September 22, 1769 -- November 30, 1830

No DNA link found between Jamestown founder, remains But scientists still believe skeleton is Gosnold's By SONJA BARISIC Associated Press Writer November 10, 2005, 11:10 AM EST JAMESTOWN -- DNA testing turned out to be of no help, but scientists say other evidence still makes them confident that a skeleton discovered at Jamestown belongs to an unsung founder of the first permanent English settlement in North America. American and British scientists had hoped to use DNA from a woman buried in England to prove that the Jamestown remains are of Bartholomew Gosnold. He was captain of one of three ships that carried settlers from England to Virginia almost 400 years ago. Tests showed the woman was not Gosnold's sister, as had been thought, nor even a blood relative, the nonprofit Association for the Preservation of Virginia Antiquities announced Thursday. Scientists working with skeletal remains can only trace DNA through maternal relatives. Since researchers know of no Gosnold relative who can provide suitable DNA for testing, "we will continue to rely on archaeological and forensic evidence, which ... strongly indicates that we have found Gosnold's grave," Bill Kelso, APVA director of archaeology at Jamestown, said in a statement. The nearly intact skeleton found in 2002 near the site of the Jamestown fort is that of a European man in his mid- to late 30s, scientists determined. Gosnold, a native of Suffolk, England, was 36 when he died after an illness in August 1607, three months after arriving in Virginia. Another compelling bit of evidence is a decorative captain's staff that was found on the lid of the coffin. "We have never found any other ceremonial objects in Jamestown burials, so we know this was someone very special," Kelso said. He also said coffin burials traditionally were reserved for people of higher status. Gosnold largely has been unrecognized by historians, who relied on written accounts by other settlers, notably Capt. John Smith. Gosnold, a former privateer, discovered and named Massachusetts' Cape Cod and Martha's Vineyard in 1602. In 1605, he began planning the Jamestown Colony with Smith, who described Gosnold as "the prime mover behind the settlement." The project to conclusively identify the skeleton came as preparations to commemorate the 400th anniversary of Jamestown's founding are under way. In June, researchers led by Kelso obtained a sample of bone from a woman in an unmarked grave under the floor of All Saints Church in Shelley, England, which British researchers had identified as the likely location of Elizabeth Gosnold Tilney's remains. It was the first time the Church of England had authorized this type of research for scientific purposes. Douglas Owsley, forensic anthropologist at the Smithsonian Institution Museum of Natural History in Washington, D.C., oversaw the testing of the sample. He said microscopic analysis indicated the woman was about 50, making her about 24 years too young to be Gosnold's sister. Instead, that skeleton likely belongs to Anne Framlingham, who married into the family of the husband of Gosnold's sister. Attempts to find the remains of Gosnold's niece, Katherine Blackerby, at another church in England were unsuccessful. On the Net: Association for the Preservation of Virginia Antiquities: http://www.apva.org Historic Jamestowne, http://www.historicjamestowne.org

Hi all, If you like to look at old photographs and/or are looking for an ancestor's photograph please if you would like visit my Lost & Found Old Photographs website at: http://oldphotos.homestead.com/lost.html Alot of my photos are on hte site and most all of them are listed on page 22 in the index of my collection. God bless, Beth [email protected]

Hi all, This is from the "Richmond Times-Dispatch," Richmond, Va., Wednesday, June 18, 1941 issue, page 10, column 2. "MRS. IDA A. TRAYLOR PETERSBURG--Mrs. Ida. A. Traylor, 87, a former resident of Petersburg, died Monday afternoon at the home of her daughter, Mrs. J. C. Wilson, Louisville, Ky., after a long illness. She is survived by five children; Mrs. T. L. Gainey and W. B. Traylor of Petersburg, R. J. Traylor of Portsmouth, Mrs. G. T. Barbee of Richmond and Mrs. Wilson. Funeral arrangements had not been completed last night." God bless, Beth [email protected]

Hi all, Below is a list of deaths that are from the "Richmond Times-Dispatch," Richmond, Va., Friday, November 30, 1956 issue, page 23. Now I am giving you some information from their obits. If you are indeed directly related to someone listed below, for instance if they are your parent, grandparent, great-grandparent, or if they are your uncle, aunt, sibling or a close cousin then I will be glad to take the time to type up their obit for you and send it to you via e-mail privately. If you are not related then please do not ask me to type up the obit. Thank you. FRED NORMAN JORDAN, died Nov. 29 in Richmond city, age 44 FRANK M. GRUBBS, died Nov. 28 in Fluvanna county, age 95 MRS. CLARA BANKER, died Nov. 26 in Canton, Ohio, formerly of Hanover County JOSEPH F. MAUCK, died Nov. 28 near Woodstock, Va., age 82 WILLIAM M. MADDUX, died Nov. 29 in Richmond city, resident of Blackstone, age 75 ROBERT A. CLARKE, died Nov. 29 in Surry County, age 80 CHARLES HENRY HALL, JR., died Nov. 29 in Richmond city, age 66(a cousin in my family) JOHN H. YOUNG, died Nov. 28 in Kecoughtan, formerly of Richmond city, age 80 JAMES FRANKLIN CAIN, died Nov. 28 on the Mattaponi Indian reservation, age 52 Please e-mail me off the list if you are related to any of the people mentioned above and want me to type up an obituary. God bless, Beth [email protected]