Hello Vick Cousins! Since I'm the one who talked Linda Fiddie into starting and maintaining this list, I feel somewhat responsible for it also. While I have not personally had a problem with the recent posts which dealt with "The War", we need to make sure no one becomes offended.....if you feel the desire to debate this issue further, perhaps it should be taken to a private discussion among interested parties. We have a good group here (after all we are all connected in some way with our Vick lines) and need to keep in mind that each of us is entitled to our own opinions whether it is the "popular" view or not. Please, let's all move on and no flaming or offensive remarks. Thanks!! Doris Wilks Moore djmoore@nb.net

Thanks for stepping up Bettie, I was beginning to question my membership in the SCV, MOSB, SAR etc. Gosh my son is in the Children of the Confederacy, last time I checked I thought I was pretty sane. I had dropped this issue, but, Had to say one more thing. I spend alot of time at schools and different places teaching about Confederate history, uniform and all. I dont push my way into these places I am called and invited. The children love it, yes black and white. No one should call these organizations names. We work hard to preserve area history markers, statues, gravesites etc. And let me tell you it is not easy in todays times. Anyway, I cant beleive the statement about traitors either, WOW, the winners write the history. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Bettie Moore <BWMOORE@worldnet.att.net> To: <VICK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 8:31 AM Subject: [VICK-L] Looney??? > Jeff, > Why the name calling? Are the DAR and the Daughters of the Confederacy > looney also? > I don't recall using any name calling when I wrote my opinion and beliefs. > Bettie >

My apologies, Bettie. Didn't mean to call anyone looney...certainly not some of the super organizations dealing with our heritage. I meant to indicate some of the ill-considered websites I have seen out there. Unfortunately, some of them have links to our more hallowed organizations. As I value my cousins I do try to keep the name calling out, but sometimes when I get in a hurry to get out the idea I don't get it polished well enough. Please accept my apology for any offense. That goes as well for any one else. Bettie Moore wrote: > Jeff, > Why the name calling? Are the DAR and the Daughters of the Confederacy > looney also? > I don't recall using any name calling when I wrote my opinion and beliefs. > Bettie

Gosh, Jim -- How often does February 29th fall? Does this mean that you are actually only a teenager? Di Ann

Hello cousins, I was born February 29, 1932 at 5:00AM leap year, this year is not only leap year but also year century. I would like to know if there are any more Vick cousins out there who was born on February 29. Jim Vick Verona, Italy

I've kept quiet ,hoping this would all go away. Now I'm asking all of you who want to keep this up to take it somewhere else. I do genealogy to get away from this kind of stress. Trudy Vick Phillips

Maybe a joke will cheer us up while we are searching for our "roots". Norene VAN GOGH'S FAMILY TREE After much careful research, it has been discovered that the artist Vincent Van Gogh had many relatives. Among them were: His dizzy aunt: Verti Gogh The brother who ate prunes: Gotta Gogh The brother who worked at a convenience store: Stopn Gogh The brother who bleached his clothes white: Hue Gogh The cousin from Illinois: Chica Gogh His magician uncle: Wherediddy Gogh His Mexican cousin: Amee Gogh The Mexican cousin's American half brother: Grin Gogh The nephew who drove a stage coach: Wellsfar Gogh The constipated uncle: Can't Gogh The ballroom dancing aunt: Tan Gogh the bird lover uncle: Flamin Gogh His nephew psychoanalyst: E Gogh The fruit loving cousin: Man Gogh An aunt who taught positive thinking: Wayto Gogh The little bouncy nephew: Poe Gogh A sister who loved disco: Go Gogh His Italian uncle: Day Gogh And his niece who travels the country in a van: Winnie Bay Gogh

I accidentally deleted the second line in the next to last paragraph. I think it is an important line so am resubmitting it with the correction. Enjoy. Norene I think our list needs a little something to brighten our spirits right now. I hope you enjoy this. God Bless each of you. Norene DRINKING FROM MY SAUCER I've never made a fortune and it's probably too late now. But I don't worry about that much, I'm happy anyhow. And as I go along life's way, I'm reaping better than I sowed. I'm drinking from my saucer, 'Cause my cup has overflowed. Haven't got a lot of riches, and sometimes the going's tough. But I've got loving ones around me, and that makes me rich enough. I thank God for his blessings, and the mercies He's bestowed. I'm drinking from my saucer, 'cause my cup has overflowed. O, Remember times when things went wrong, My faith wore somewhat thin. But all at once the dark clouds broke, and sun peeped through again. So Lord, help me not to gripe about the tough rows that I've hoed. I'm drinking from my saucer, "Cause my cup has overflowed. If God gives me strength and courage, when the way grows steep and rough, I'll not ask for other blessings, I'm already blessed enough. And may I never be too busy, to help others bear their loads. Then I'll keep drinking from my saucer, "Cause my cup has overflowed. A LITTLE SMILE (*) (*) \______/ This little smile somehow found its way Onto your screen to brighten your day. So pass it along to each of your friends, God Bless

I think our list needs a little something to brighten our spirits right now. I hope you enjoy this. God Bless each of you. Norene DRINKING FROM MY SAUCER I've never made a fortune and it's probably too late now. But I don't worry about that much, I'm happy anyhow. And as I go along life's way, I'm reaping better than I sowed. I'm drinking from my saucer, 'Cause my cup has overflowed. Haven't got a lot of riches, and sometimes the going's tough. But I've got loving ones around me, and that makes me rich enough. I thank God for his blessings, and the mercies He's bestowed. I'm drinking from my saucer, 'cause my cup has overflowed. O, Remember times when things went wrong, My faith wore somewhat thin. But all at once the dark clouds broke, and sun peeped through again. So Lord, help me not to gripe about the tough rows that I've hoed. I'm drinking from my saucer, "Cause my cup has overflowed. If God gives me strength and courage, I'll not ask for other blessings, I'm already blessed enough. And may I never be too busy, to help others bear their loads. Then I'll keep drinking from my saucer, "Cause my cup has overflowed. A LITTLE SMILE (*) (*) \______/ This little smile somehow found its way Onto your screen to brighten your day. So pass it along to each of your friends, God Bless

"That's my two cents worth. Let's try to keep it civil folks. Let's say "I believe" when we mean it and not state our beliefs as facts to offend and criticize our cousins (unless you really want to split hairs with me; source your facts with credible sources and not loony Sons of the Confederacy or Sons of the Republic websites) ." Lets see, yesterday morning we were called Nazi, and this morning we are called Loony. Both times, we are supposed to be accepting with the assessment and move on because it does not fit the agenda. Since I am the only one to post hyper-links, and you discredited them as Looney Sons of the Confederacy web sites, I will assume you neither read nor were able to access them. All three sites are from http://www.universitylake.org/primarysources.html which I'm sure would like to know of your allegation, and http://www.freedomsnest.com/ which has no agenda other than to document Pro-Freedom aspect for all people. None of these site have any links to your "Looney sites" and both are backed up by plenty of University research. I suppose most would prefer to bury this, but I'm afraid that is the problem with the country today. The German's refused to discuss the demonization of the Jew, and look where that landed. I for one will not allow the demonization of any group of people. I think we all deserve an apology for the unfounded remarks made by all, Bob - K While being called a racist I suspect that I am the only person that supports a black man for President http://www.Keyes2000.org look and you will find my name listed.....................................

Jeff, Why the name calling? Are the DAR and the Daughters of the Confederacy looney also? I don't recall using any name calling when I wrote my opinion and beliefs. Bettie

Gosh, Jeff --- The more you write the more I regret that we were not able to get together while you were on assignment in Wayne. As a historian (I did my graduate work in American Studies at the University of Pennsylvania), I agree totally with your comments. I have read widely and deeply about the Civil War and one fact looms large and clear, to me, at least: in the years leading up to the War, northerners and southeners did not talk to (underlined) each other, they talked at (underlined) each other, saying the things they wanted to hear. 'Nuff said. Di Ann

I think we did okay. Truth is a strange and difficult thing to find. As we each search for our bit s of truth lets don't run over or offend others that may be seeing our truth from a different prospective. Some don't care much about truth. They happen to have come out okay in a deal (WAR) and any other view simply can't be right. I believe there are almost always two right when WAR happens. Both sides have there right and are willing to die for it. So we pick, choose, or we are born to one side of truth and we hold fast to it no matter what. (To Bad) Knowledge is power. I would hope as thinking people with our cups running over we could discuss any topic give our view (OUR TRUTH) with respect for the other guy. State your Truth from a positive point of view and make your point. No need to demean the other point of view trying to make yours more right. Your not going to change History and you sure want change the other point of view. My hope would be we could learn enough to respect the other view without malice and mean spirited criticism about the person with the differing view. I have learned something about our History through this discussion but mostly I have learned about my cousins. It is really to bad when we can't discuses things with family or friends without name calling or belittling to make our view know. Mostly I have learned we as a people would rather not face and issue than to talk about it openly and honestly with each other. Now that's not too bad when it's about some things that happened a long time ago but how in the world could we ever expect any Nation to resolve any issues in there country without War. The Moral to the story. Don't be surprised when you here about this country or that killing it's people because they just can't talk about "THAT." My hope is that we could talk about any topic on this list, specially those that mean so much to all of us for so many reasons. I think the Table talk thing with regard to Religion, Politics or whatever makes for a dysfunctional family. I hope my family can always express themselves at the Table or anywhere else. Of course that in no way gives them the right to bad mouth somebody else. You can disagree with someone without being disagreeable. Your Pal The Nice Cousin Daddy Loves me Best! Cuz'en David

Bob Vick suggested we all post what our families were doing during the Civil War (i.e. time of federal aggression, as he put it). Here goes. My VICK family was still in London, England and Randwick in Gloucester, England. Arthur VICK and Emma VICK, first cousins, did not marry until 1886 and did not arrive in Providence, RI until about 25 years after the fighting stopped. My TODD, TEAL, CLARKSON, RILEY, DUCKWORTH, SCARBOROUGH, ODDIE, WILSON, SHARP, SMITH family were still in various villages in Kildwick and Skipton parishes, West Riding Yorkshire, England. Their descendant did not reach Providence, RI until 47 years after the fighting stopped. My wife's CHENEY family had gone around Cape Horn to the California gold fields and was unheard of for 30 years, next appearing in the Texas panhandle 15 years after the fighting stopped, apparently missing the Civil War all together. Her CHAPPELL family had freed their slaves in Virginia in the late 1700s and moved on to Missouri. One was a preacher and preached abolition in Neosho, MO, from 1856 to 1862, barely escaping a lynch mob at his house. Shortly thereafter he moved to territories in northern Missouri that thought more like him. Most of her other lines (HAMILTON, BINGHAM, HOOVER, SPURLOCK, STEPHENS, EASTHAM, BRIDGEWATER) were likewise in northern Missouri about this time. The relatives in her various other lines that stayed behind in Vermont, Pulaski Co Kentucky, and Switzerland Co Indiana may have participated in the Civil War, but I have not yet research that. My Scottish HEPBURN family and English RASON family were at that time on the island of St. Vincent in the Caribbean, intermarrying with various black families who were probably slaves or free blacks. At this time I don't know if they were Carib Indians or Africans, but they likely were slaves. My approximately 3/4 white-1/4 black grandmother did not arrive in Providence, RI until 53 years after the fighting stopped, instead hazarding a journey from St. Lucia to NYC in the midst of the Great War (now known as World War I). Much research in foreign lands is needed before I can sort all this out. Oh yes, my FOREMAN family was in parts unknown, as I have not been able to trace this line back any earlier than 53 years after the fighting stopped. My thoughts on the Civil War, its purposes, the slavery question, and modern day racism are private matters and not appropriate for discussion on this list. Best Regards, from your approx. 15/16 white and 1/16th black VICK cousin, David A. Todd, Arkansas, USA datodd@arkansas.net

At 02:40 AM 2/8/00 EST, you wrote: >To my fellow Vicks' > > After many months of enjoying the history of the Vicks' contained in the >many postings, I'am leaving the list because of my abhorence to the racist >nature of the debate over the Confederate flag flying. It's a shame that you've left, DJ. I don't see anyone here championing the cause of racism. What we've been discussing is history. If that causes you to withdraw because you cannot abide the discussion, nobody can stop you. Still, it's a shame because you might learn something. > I do not doubt the honorable nature of the Confederate soldier or his >belief in the righteous nature of his cause. I do not wish to see the >reverence of our forefathers and personal histories abandoned for some nature >of political correctness. I do see the economic system that fosters a belief >in slavery as a plausible work force as wrong. A whole mess of history is >swept under the rug and most of it is very very grey, I hope that our >children are taught well and learn the moral and symbolic nature of our >icons. Then you'd surely want the truth to be taught, rather than teaching that one side or the other was evil because of the beliefs they had. > Thanks to any who read this rant, I simply can't abide the thinly veiled >racism symbolized by the Confederate flag nor the discussion of it's merits >as a symbol of a culture founded on slavery. Please unsubscibe me from >further postings > >Sincerly, > >Anthony Vernon Vick, son of >Vernon Bayard Vick, son of >Raymond Vick, son of >Bayard Vick and many more genrations back to 1790, Dupoy KY to Detroit MI to >Denver, CO to currently San Diego CA If you believe that discussions of the history of the civil war is racism, then I'd highly recommend that you examine your own beliefs. Our ancestors did as they did, and all of the wishing in the world isn't going to change one of their actions. Well, unless you subscribe to the philosophy of Big Brother, that is. (George Orwell's book, 1984) Ronald Vick

Hi All As a person not involved in the US history, I would like to thank all of you for the insight I have gained from reading all your comments. Some of my husbands ggrandfathers brothers went to the USA and Robert Vick went to Australia. I am trying to trace where the other went but knowing a bit about the history of that time sure helps. Shirley At 02:28 PM 2/8/00 EST, VICK-L@rootsweb.com wrote: >WOW! I am most impressed. >I didn't know I had cousins so smart. I have seen and learned so much with >this little bit of struggle. It may be time to move on however? >I never intended for the topic to cause hurt or division among us. >I knew there were strong feelings and great differences on both sides. >I was hopeful we could talk about them openly as we shared our personal >felling about the topic and not each other. >Once again I think this has been a worth while topic and I learned much from >both points of view. Shirley MUIR from Melbourne Australia. The Garden City

I guess I will start, my great great grandfather Howell Rasom Vick at the age of 18 joined a partisian ranger outfit in 1861, it was called Drue Outlaws Partisian Rangers, later they would be known as the 18th Mississippi Cavalry, he saw action in the western theater of the war. Thank goodness he survived the war. He had four brothers who also joined the ranks of the Confederacy, Allen Franklin joined the 34th Miss. Infantry. He saw action untill Nov. of 1863 when he was captured at the Battle of Lookout Mt. He was sent to the Union prison at Rock Island Illinoise, he was released in 1865, found his way back to his wife in North Miss. Eli Vick was not as lucky, he saw action utill August of 1864 where he was killed at the battle in and around Atlanta, Ga. Eli was also in the 34th Miss. Infantry. Ransom Vick Jr was in the 10th Miss. Infantry, he died at Lauderdale Springs Confederate Hospital in Miss. from sickness, in 1862. Augustas Vick was also in the 10th Miss. and survived the war. So, we have five brothers, five boys leaving home, leaving their mothers, their wives, their familys, and we only get 3 to return. Defending their homes, their way of life. Ill always remeber a paragraph from a book I was reading, it said a Yankee soldier ran into a Southern soldier during the war, both were weary from battle and marching, the Yankee soldier asked the Confederate "why he was fighting"? The Confederate Soldier looked at him and replied " because you'all are down here". Just a small piece of my Confederate history. Steve Vick ----- Original Message ----- From: nelson <nels095@ibm.net> To: <VICK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 7:32 AM Subject: [VICK-L] Dixie > Hi Cuz'n David and the rest of the clan, > > You asked an interesting question on our thoughts of the war of northern > aggression. It definitely was not a civil war, nothing civil about it. > I do not believe that I am a racist just because I would like to see the > record set straight. > > I DO NOT believe any person should be the owner of another. Through out > history we > have had slavery from time to time of one race or another. This does > not make it right. > > I grew up in Dixie and accepted the twisted history that was taught even > at that > time. It was not until my husband joined the SCV and I started reading > materials on > what happened during those horrible years that I realized that the > history that I was > taught was a bunch of huey. I found my gggrandfather died in this war. > I find no > record that he ever owned a slave. His son also fought in the war with > no record of > any slaves. 2 other greatgrandfathers that did own slaves also fought. > > I respect the right of each person to believe what they want but I also > challenge each of you to search for the truth. Some of the things I > have found: > The original constitution of the CSA forbade the importation of > slaves. > The first slave owner in America was a free black. > > I received papers researched by the state of NC in regards to a family I > am researching and some of the things that was listed surprised me. > 1. In 1850 less than 30% of the people of NC owned slaves. > 2. Of the 28% that owned slaves, only 8% owned over 20 slaves. > Will someone tell me why most people think that over 70% of NC soldiers > were fighting > for the rights of less than 30% to own slaves? > > If you will check records you will find many blacks fighting for the > south. I went to a > memorial service in VA last fall for a free black that fought for the > south. I was pleased to see many people turn up to honor him. In the > south the men were from the south. > In the north a lot of the soldiers were paid to take the place and fight > in the place of > someone else or immigrants were forced to fight for the north in order > to gain their > freedom. Is this not using them as slaves to gain freedom for another? > > Pat Nelson > nels095@ibm.net > >

I am proud of the "Rebel Flag", not proud that there happened to be slavery around at the time, but if you want to get down to it, has anyone every thought how long slavery was around. How many slaves there were under the American Flag? Seems to me there were slaves under the american flag a lot longer than they were during the short lived Confederacy. I am not a racist, never claimed to be, never will. But, I will not sit around quietly and let someone try and arrange history so that no one is offended. Thats my heritage, everyone has heritage, and it is becoming a sad time that we are letting the goverment or whoever it may be dictate what I should be proud of. No one can help the fact that there was slavery, it happened and its over with. But heritage is a big issue with me and I think people should stand up a little more on their beleifs. I dont think you should leave the list over something like this, you spoke your mind on this issue and thats great. Everyone has an opinion. Steve Vick ----- Original Message ----- From: Horace B. Peele <hpeele@txdirect.net> To: <VICK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [VICK-L] Thinly Veiled Racism > > > The Confederate flag will always be a symbol of slavery and the > >post-Civil War segregationist policies to the majority of the free citizens > >of the United States. > > It is funny to me, I was raised in the South and I have never thought of > the Confederate Flag as anything than one of the "Six Flags over xxx" and > an historical artifact, a Piece of History. Slavery in America started > under the Bristish Flag as far back as 1620 and it was that way for the > first 155 years, so do we ask all of the British Embassies to remove their > flag from our country? The Confederate Flag had nothing to do with slavery. > It was the people at the time, the same ancestors that made this country > what it is from both points of view. Nothing more.. > > > > ___________________________________________________ > The Directory to all my sites at - http://www.horace.peele.com > Horace Peele, 12806 Chateau Forest, San Antonio, TX 78230 > _________________ô¿ô For More Peeles__________________ > Thank you, Horace. (Over 33,250 Descendents) >

I will jump into this discussion and you will probably all tell me to jump out. My husband is the history buff so I am sure he would be able to give us all an accurate documentary on the historical facts of the war. I will give my commentary as a mother, daughter, sister, wife, aunt, niece, friend and neighbor though. No one wants anyone they love to go and fight and die and no one wants to see the people they love denied opportunity for any reason. Long live reason and independence and may we not have to defend it against tyranny. Mary C. Mary C.

> The Confederate flag will always be a symbol of slavery and the >post-Civil War segregationist policies to the majority of the free citizens >of the United States. It is funny to me, I was raised in the South and I have never thought of the Confederate Flag as anything than one of the "Six Flags over xxx" and an historical artifact, a Piece of History. Slavery in America started under the Bristish Flag as far back as 1620 and it was that way for the first 155 years, so do we ask all of the British Embassies to remove their flag from our country? The Confederate Flag had nothing to do with slavery. It was the people at the time, the same ancestors that made this country what it is from both points of view. Nothing more.. ___________________________________________________ The Directory to all my sites at - http://www.horace.peele.com Horace Peele, 12806 Chateau Forest, San Antonio, TX 78230 _________________ô¿ô For More Peeles__________________ Thank you, Horace. (Over 33,250 Descendents)