Bill, My information from Bartholomew back to John Vestal comes from Tony Helms 46 page Descendants of John Vestal. I have no way to prove or disprove his information. The information from Martha to me is my family recorded history including the photo of Martha Vestal and her family. The 1665 date is a topo on my part. Tony's info shows 1770 in England. Tony is at HELMSTMK@aol.com His web site where you can download the Vestal tree is http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/h/e/l/Tony--M-Helms/ODT5-0002.html Marion