I have a John Hays who married Elizabeth Anderson, Floyd Co., Ky, 10 Mar 1816. Any possible connection. Trying to determine parents of Elizabeth. Carol ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rhonda Robertson" <rsr@mounet.com> To: <VAWISE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 9:46 PM Subject: [VAWISE] Jonathan Hayes > I did a little research before posting some additional information on the Hayes/Hays family and the Jonathan Hayes tombstone that we found on Sunday. > > According to the marriage license for the Jonathan Hayes (Civil War Soldier) in Wise County, VA he married on August 18, 1859 in Wise County. He listed his father's name as John Hayes. > > On the 1860 Wise County, Va census, I found the following: > > #362 Hay, John, born 1793 and wife Senah > #366 Hays, Jonathan, born 1838, wife Malvina > #369 Hayes, John, born 1817 > > These three families live in the exact area of the tombstone for Jonathan Hayes. From Jonathan (Civil War) marriage license we know he must the son of the John in household 369. Also in household 369 is James Hayes who also served in the Civil War. > > The John born 1793 is most probably not the Jonathan born 1777 as there is too wide a span in the years. Could the Jonathan, born 1777 be a brother of the John, born 1793? > > Any ideas? > > Rhonda > >

The whole "Melungeon" history is interesting and enigmatic. Don't think we'll ever know for certain. They certainly were a darker skinned people with black hair and black eyes. I find them listed in 1850 census' as "mulatto" in many counties. The census taker didn't know what to call them. Their features were not negroid. The tradition is that the women were very pretty. They also did stay at the most inaccessable places, and away from the general population as much as possible. At this time they have pretty much disappeared into the general population. My Mother claimed she was "black Irish" which is one of the names they used for themselves. She surely didn't look Irish. I have one sister with very olive skin and green/grey eyes, much darker than the other children. I was blond and blue eyed! (before I got white haired) People would remark about her dark skin. She was considered quite beautiful. Worked in Hollywood as a ?"starlet" when young. Just don't know where that dark skin came from. In all of my ancestor tracing the only family that I know of in my history that was considered Melungeon was the MULLINS family, and they are way up the tree. Is an interesting question. Rodney D. Veitschegger Bowling Green, KY

For more information on Melungeons, find and buy a copy of the book "The Melungeons" by N. Brent Kennedy. I have a copy and it is very interesting. Many may disagree with his theories but it is thoroughly written. David Attride

I am inclined to agree with you to a degree. I believe the folks from the lost colony migerated up the coastline and inland to mix with the Colonial tribes . I am not ruling out the mixture of the runaway slaves either. I firmly believe there is a mixture in my family of Indian/White/Black. Brenda ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rdvsr@aol.com> To: <VAWISE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [VAWISE] Mixed bloodlines (was Early Wise County) > Some maintain that there is really no "Portugese" to them, but that they were > a mixture of escaped slaves, black and Indian and whites who lived in the > mountains to escape detection. No one has settled the question for certain. > These people often called themselves "black dutch" or "black Irish", etc. > etc. and stayed in very remote mountain area. >

I do know that the name Vardiman was a surname that I find with other of my family in Va. and KY.

Penny, I have also heard this. Also from several book it said that the Melungeons were first living in Virginia as Indians and that they stole/took up the Collins name. Many of the Colonials couldn't pronouce the Indian names and encouraged them to take English names. Our family oral history speaks of such a name change. In the late 1600's to early 1700's there was a commissioner of Indian affairs that worked with Governor Spottswood who's name was John Collins. I believe this is where the Indian Collins /Melungeons took the name. Teaching in the Fort Christianna school was also a man by the name of Charles Griffin. I believe many borrowed his name as he was a man held in very high asteem and liked by the Indians. They usually took a name of somebody they looked up to. Orange Co. Virginia 1742 court case where 26 Saponi Indians were brought before the court and charged with stealing of hogs and setting the woods on fire. One of the 26 was John Collins and another Charles Griffin. Because the records say the origional Charles Griffin was a whiteman that was hired to teach the Indian children and the 26 were listed as Saponi I believe this proves the fact that these names had been adopted. NOW....this is not to say that the commissioner nor the teacher didn't take a Indian wife and these two named in the court case could have been their sons. {At a Court held for Orange County on 27 January 1742 [1743 NS]. Thursday, the xxviith day of January MDCCXLIII. p. 309: "Alexander Machartoon, John Bowling, Manincassa, Capt. Tom, Isaac, Harry, Blind Tom, Foolish Jack, Charles Griffin, John Collins, Little Jack, Indians being brought before the Court by precept under the hands & seals of Wm Russell & Edward Spencer, Gent, for terrifying one Lawrence Strother & on suspicion of stealing hoggs . . . ." pp. 309-312. The above put up security individually. It was ordered that their guns be taken from them till they are ready to depart out of this county, "they having declared their intentions to the Court to depart this colony within a week" (Orange Co., VA, Order Book 3, 1741-1743, 309). Orange Co., VA, Microfilm Reel 31, VA State Archives. } ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ferguson" <pferguso@sun-spot.com> To: <VAWISE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 5:09 PM Subject: [VAWISE] Vardy Collins > I'm just jumping in here, but have heard Jack Goins say Vardy Collins was > named from his mother's maiden name > Vardiman, proven by a Vardimen descendant. Carroll Goyne. > Penny in KY > >

Thanks Vickie ;) Erin ----- Original Message ----- From: <Vickie327@aol.com> To: <VAWISE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [VAWISE] Mixed bloodlines (was Early Wise County) > I've read several books on the subject, including those by Kennedy and I'm of > the belief that it would be more toward the black, indian mixture. Being > cousin to Kennedy and also of "melungeon decent", my opinion is that someone > people would prefer to find themselves of the Turkish decents as oppsosed to > black or indian. > I would read books other than cousin Brents to get an overall picture.

I've read several books on the subject, including those by Kennedy and I'm of the belief that it would be more toward the black, indian mixture. Being cousin to Kennedy and also of "melungeon decent", my opinion is that someone people would prefer to find themselves of the Turkish decents as oppsosed to black or indian. I would read books other than cousin Brents to get an overall picture. Vic

I'm just jumping in here, but have heard Jack Goins say Vardy Collins was named from his mother's maiden name Vardiman, proven by a Vardimen descendant. Carroll Goyne. Penny in KY

Thank you, Danny, for your insight (Rdvsc@aol.com too!). Dr. Kennedy was mentioned in the article I have...I'll have to check out his books. It's all very interesting to me. I've been working on my own genealogy for a while now, and being from Gettysburg, most discussions tend to lead back to that battle. It's nice to read about something different (and mysterious) for a change!! Erin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danny Dixon" <danny@mounet.com> To: <VAWISE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [VAWISE] Mixed bloodlines (was Early Wise County) > Erin, > > You pose a question that has facinated and perplexed historians for > centuries. Many books have been written about the mystery and varying > opinions (often strongly held ones) are presented. Dr. Brent Kennedy > formerly with UVa. Wise has done extensive research and written at least a > couple of books on the topic that are facinating. He has also visited the > region from which many of the melungeons may have originated, participated > in medical and genetic studies (he himself is a melungeon), etc. I would > recommend one of them to you. A short answer, that many people hold as at > least partially true is as follows: > > 1586 - Sir Francis Drake sets off several hundred Turkish and other Muslim > sailors (on Roanoke Island.) that he had freed from the jails of the Spanish > settlement at Cartegena in the Caribean) ( The original Melungeons) > > 1587 - The English over-run the Spanish settlement of Santa Elena (Beaufort, > S.Car.) Many Iberian settlers (Portuguese and Spanish) are abandoned or > otherwise cut off and left to survive in the wilderness. ( The second major > source of Melungeons) > > The only fact that is know for certain is that they were/are here and > obviously came from somewhere. > > Hope this helps (a little) > > Danny Dixon

Some maintain that there is really no "Portugese" to them, but that they were a mixture of escaped slaves, black and Indian and whites who lived in the mountains to escape detection. No one has settled the question for certain. These people often called themselves "black dutch" or "black Irish", etc. etc. and stayed in very remote mountain area.

Erin, You pose a question that has facinated and perplexed historians for centuries. Many books have been written about the mystery and varying opinions (often strongly held ones) are presented. Dr. Brent Kennedy formerly with UVa. Wise has done extensive research and written at least a couple of books on the topic that are facinating. He has also visited the region from which many of the melungeons may have originated, participated in medical and genetic studies (he himself is a melungeon), etc. I would recommend one of them to you. A short answer, that many people hold as at least partially true is as follows: 1586 - Sir Francis Drake sets off several hundred Turkish and other Muslim sailors (on Roanoke Island.) that he had freed from the jails of the Spanish settlement at Cartegena in the Caribean) ( The original Melungeons) 1587 - The English over-run the Spanish settlement of Santa Elena (Beaufort, S.Car.) Many Iberian settlers (Portuguese and Spanish) are abandoned or otherwise cut off and left to survive in the wilderness. ( The second major source of Melungeons) The only fact that is know for certain is that they were/are here and obviously came from somewhere. Hope this helps (a little) Danny Dixon

I'm curious about these "mixed bloodlines". Does that mean African...Indian...European?? Is Mulatto the same as Melungeon?? I have an article from a few years ago (from our local paper, Hampton Roads VA) about the "mystery of the *dark people* (Melungeon) of VA, NC and TN : ~~"The earliest French explorers in the 1690's encountered them, like apparitions, among the virgin hills of western NC...dark-skinned, black-haired farmers with decidedly European features. In broken Elizabethan English, they identified themselves as *Portyghee*.~~ It goes on to mention places like Newman's Ridge, Hancock Co TN...Coeburn Mountain VA...Wise Co and so on. But the article doesn't really clear up *WHO* they were and/or *WHERE* they truly were from. These people often listed as *slaves* or *person's of color* in records. We believe that (at least some of ) my husband's maternal family (Ellison, Branham, Meade...) descended from these people and I'm curious to find out more info! Erin McCleaf-Bolling mccleaf_bolling@hotmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda Dillon" <bj04@mediaone.net> To: <VAWISE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [VAWISE] Early Wise County > Thanks Rhonda and fellow researchers. I really appreciate the help. These > Collins are a real mystery. As Rodney said they probably didn't want to be > found. From what I do have on them I realize they were a mixed bloodline. > Meredith, and his first son Bradley, were listed as "Mullato" and "fpc" .........................

I believe Vardy was shortened for Vardimon. Vardy was slightly younger( 4 yrs I think) than Meredith . Vardy is believed to be the son of Samuel Collins and grandson to old Thomas Collins. If Jack Goins and I are correct in thinking they were cousins it is possible that the George that showes up in McDaniel's Company was George, also son of Old Thomas Collins. Vardy was not in the Rev War being too young. Listers , remember this is all bases on belief and not written in stone. Brenda ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rdvsr@aol.com> To: <VAWISE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [VAWISE] Early Wise County > Was Vardy Collins, Vardeman COLLINS? >

Meredith aka Meridia Collins entered Captain James McDaniel's Fincastle co. militia 1776 with George Collins David Collins and Lewis Collins. All four Collins entered the same day and in the same district. These same four men also show up in "Kegely's " records as being on the Montgomery Co. Va militia list durning the 1780's. Three of them are listed on Montgomery Co. tax list but Meredith is not. Remember he entered 1776 at age 16 and first son is not born until 1787 NC . I loose him durning that 10 year period. My belief is that the four Collins were father and sons or four brothers. Another thing I can't prove. Brenda ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rdvsr@aol.com> To: <VAWISE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [VAWISE] Early Wise County > Wasn't Meredith COLLINS a Rev. War Vet? Were there pension papers on him? > I have never tried to look for Meredith, but realize he was near to my > ROBERTS clan in Pike Co. >

William COLLINS md 1st Mary MULLINS, and 2nd Mary HATFIELD. Large part of this family went to Lewis Co. WA. (Morton) where I grew up. I knew many of the COLLINS there. Lived within a couple blocks of Ada COLLINS! I-3-3-B Mary "Polly" MULLINS b c1811, Va d 1860, PCK d/o William Harrison & Mary (? ??) MULLINS, md 22 Mar 1829 PCK William COLLINS, Sr b RussCo, Va 13 Apr 1806 d 30 Mar 1896 Craigsville, Nicholas Co, WV brd Blankenship Fam. Cem. s/o Meredith (Meredy) COLLINS & Polly HOLLOWAY William COLLINS md 2) 25 Nov 1860 Logan Co Mary Anne HATFIELD d/o Joseph and Nancy (Evans) Hatfield buried at Blankenship Cem beside William family by 2nd wife in "The Hatfields" p 209

Name: Samuel COLLINS Birth: ABT. 1734 Fact 1: Residence:1770 Boutetourt Co, Va-tithables Fact 2: Residence: 1771, Montgomery Co, Va-tithables Fact 3: Residence:1773, Montgomeries list of tithables Fact 4: indicates Indian Land 2 Fact 5: 1787 Wilkes Co, Nc Tax List Geo also Fact 6: Samuel Collins on 1777 Cox Militia of Elk Creek Note: > 54th Infantry--Va Rev war > COLLINS, A. R.: Co. H, > COLLINS, DAVID: Co. B > COLLINS, FRANCIS: Co. B > COLLINS, GILES D.: Co. E > COLLINS, HAMILTON WADE: Co. E > COLLINS, SAMUEL S.: Co. H > COLLINS, SETH DUNCAN: Co. C > > COLLINS, SAMUEL, On 1777 List of Cox's Militia Company > > is this the David 1850 Jhn co, Ky > 374 Collins, David 43 Male Farmer $ 400 Kentucky > Polly 49 Female Virginia > Nancy 22 Female Kentucky > George W 19 Male Farmer Kentucky > Andrew J 17 Male Kentucky > Hiram 15 Male Kentucky > Peter 12 Male Kentucky > Marriage 1 Spouse UnknownChildren > <A HREF="http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:886466&id=I0671">Valentine COLLINS</A> b: ABT. 1768 > <A HREF="http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:886466&id=I1099">Vardy COLLINS</A> b: 1764 in Wilkes co, NC > <A HREF="http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:886466&id=I1100">Ambrouse COLLINS</A> > <A HREF="http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:886466&id=I1101">George COLLINS</A> > <A HREF="http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:886466&id=I1102">Thomas COLLINS</A> > <A HREF="http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:886466&id=I1199">David COLLINS</A> > <A HREF="http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:886466&id=I1200">Martin COLLINS</A>

Can you share the Collins information with the rest of us as well?

Name: Vardeman COLLINS NICK: Navarrh _AKA: Vardy Birth: 1764 in North Carolina Marriage 1 <A HREF="http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:451214&id=I197">Margaret GIBSON</A> b: 1773 in Virginia Married: in North Carolina Children > <A HREF="http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:451214&id=I192">Etta ETHIE Collins</A> b: 1812 > <A HREF="http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:451214&id=I198">Lottie COLLINS</A> b: 1791 > <A HREF="http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:451214&id=I199">Morgan COLLINS</A> b: 1798 > <A HREF="http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:451214&id=I200">Allen COLLINS</A> b: 1802 > <A HREF="http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:451214&id=I201">Alford COLLINS</A> b: 1810 > <A HREF="http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:451214&id=I202">Claricia COLLINS</A> b: 1813 > <A HREF="http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:451214&id=I203">Varda COLLINS</A> b: 1817

Wasn't Meredith COLLINS a Rev. War Vet? Were there pension papers on him? I have never tried to look for Meredith, but realize he was near to my ROBERTS clan in Pike Co.