Thanks Alley. I needed some clarification here. Too many "ideas". I appreciate it. -----Original Message----- From: Alley [mailto:alley@tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 6:00 PM To: VASHENAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [VASHENAN] Question? As Bev stated, s stands for son. Anyone under the age of 21 needed consent from their parent (s) or guardian. I've not seen anything stating that the mother signed only if the father was deceased. However, I have noticed that the father signed for all of my ancestors until his death and then the mother signed for any remaining children.....someone on the list may have found that to be untrue for their line, however. Alley ==== VASHENAN Mailing List ==== Shenandoah Co VAGenWeb http://www.rootsweb.com/~vashenan/vashenan.html

I have found the mother signing for two daughter with her son on being the surety.

As Bev stated, s stands for son. Anyone under the age of 21 needed consent from their parent (s) or guardian. I've not seen anything stating that the mother signed only if the father was deceased. However, I have noticed that the father signed for all of my ancestors until his death and then the mother signed for any remaining children.....someone on the list may have found that to be untrue for their line, however. Alley

I do not know. The actual abbreviation meanings were in the front of the book that had been compiled at the library but I do not have access to one now. I thought someone may know for sure. Then again, maybe the reason I only wrote down the abbreviation of "d" and "b" was that no others were listed and we'll have to guess. I can't remember if other abbreviations were listed or not. I was satisfied with the first answer that it stands for "son" but now I'm not sure if that was a suggestion, guess, or fact. Anyone out there know for sure what an "s" stands for? In case, the previous message was missed - In marriage records the name of the bride and groom is listed, followed by the marriage date, and then it either states" reg., d of name (daughter), b of name (bondsman), ward of name (ward) and now I've found one that says "s of Susannah" and we're trying to decide if this means son of Susannah or surety of Susannah. I would also like to know if a mother would have signed for a son if he was of age 21 and if a mother would have signed if the father was alive? Any help here will certainly be appreciated. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Chocybrown@aol.com [mailto:Chocybrown@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 10:07 AM To: VASHENAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VASHENAN] Question? Could it stand for "surety" ? ==== VASHENAN Mailing List ==== Shenandoah Co VAGenWeb http://www.rootsweb.com/~vashenan/vashenan.html

Could it stand for "surety" ?

If the father was still living would a mother sign for a son's marriage? Would it be correct that only a son under age would even have his mother sign for him?

Thanks. I guessed it was possibly son but thought it may stand for an individual that "signed" for a dependent or something. I appreciate the help. -----Original Message----- From: Ms2001@aol.com [mailto:Ms2001@aol.com] Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 11:11 PM To: VASHENAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VASHENAN] Question? Hello diane.kittle@voyager.net, In reference to your comment: è Does anyone know what an "s" would stand for? Son ========Original Message======== Subj: [VASHENAN] Question? Date: 4/7/2003 11:06:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: <A HREF="mailto:diane.kittle@voyager.net">diane.kittle@voyager.net</A> To: <A HREF="mailto:VASHENAN-L@rootsweb.com">VASHENAN-L@rootsweb.com</A> Sent from the Internet (Details) In the Shenandoah marriage records, abbreviated annotations are made following the names of the groom, bride, and date, i.e., b=bondsman, d=daughter. Does anyone know what an "s" would stand for? Thanks. ==== VASHENAN Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe, send a msg. to VASHENAN-L-request@rootsweb.com or VASHENAN-D-request@rootsweb.com with the word unsubscribe. ==== VASHENAN Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe, send a msg. to VASHENAN-L-request@rootsweb.com or VASHENAN-D-request@rootsweb.com with the word unsubscribe.

Hello diane.kittle@voyager.net, In reference to your comment: è Does anyone know what an "s" would stand for? Son ========Original Message======== Subj: [VASHENAN] Question? Date: 4/7/2003 11:06:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: <A HREF="mailto:diane.kittle@voyager.net">diane.kittle@voyager.net</A> To: <A HREF="mailto:VASHENAN-L@rootsweb.com">VASHENAN-L@rootsweb.com</A> Sent from the Internet (Details) In the Shenandoah marriage records, abbreviated annotations are made following the names of the groom, bride, and date, i.e., b=bondsman, d=daughter. Does anyone know what an "s" would stand for? Thanks. ==== VASHENAN Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe, send a msg. to VASHENAN-L-request@rootsweb.com or VASHENAN-D-request@rootsweb.com with the word unsubscribe.

In the Shenandoah marriage records, abbreviated annotations are made following the names of the groom, bride, and date, i.e., b=bondsman, d=daughter. Does anyone know what an "s" would stand for? Thanks.

In 1826 Samuel Weeks, Valentine Smutz, and David Smutz purchased a grist mill and land on Tom's Brook from the estate of Christopher Wendel. In 1835 one-third of this was transferred to Weeks' widow Elizabeth, who later became Mrs Abraham Rosenberger in 1837. In the 1885 Lake's Atlas, there was still a mill at Toms Brook, apparently operated by Luther Hottel. Does anyone know if this mill is still in existence? Thanks for your help. Jim Funkhouser j.a.funkhouser@worldnet.att.net

You might want to check here: http://www.rootsweb.com/~vashenan/bly.html Records of Indentures and Guardianships in Shenandoah Co. VA 1772 - 1831 by Daniel W. Bly -----Original Message----- From: William Fox [mailto:wefox@ncats.net] Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 1:14 PM To: VASHENAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [VASHENAN] Rapholse I would like to know if there is some way, other then traveling to Shenandoah Co., Va. of finding a copy of the document or page of the book mentioned by a cousin several years ago. She has since passed and none of the family know anything about what happened to all her records. Here is what she said at time, found in Courthouse records in Shenandoah Co, Va. There was no copy machine, and it was in a Huge Book. It was a document that appointed Anderson Moffett and Reuben Moore as Guardians to Anthony Rapholse son of Jacob Rapholse deceased. It was dated 28 April 1785. Justices mentioned were Joseph Watson, Alexander Hite, William A. Boothe, and John Hutchison gentlemen justices of the County Court of Shenando. Any and all help greatly appreciated. Bill Fox ==== VASHENAN Mailing List ==== Shenandoah Co VAGenWeb http://www.rootsweb.com/~vashenan/vashenan.html

I would like to know if there is some way, other then traveling to Shenandoah Co., Va. of finding a copy of the document or page of the book mentioned by a cousin several years ago. She has since passed and none of the family know anything about what happened to all her records. Here is what she said at time, found in Courthouse records in Shenandoah Co, Va. There was no copy machine, and it was in a Huge Book. It was a document that appointed Anderson Moffett and Reuben Moore as Guardians to Anthony Rapholse son of Jacob Rapholse deceased. It was dated 28 April 1785. Justices mentioned were Joseph Watson, Alexander Hite, William A. Boothe, and John Hutchison gentlemen justices of the County Court of Shenando. Any and all help greatly appreciated. Bill Fox

Margaret's suggestion is a good one. Joan has many Surnames from this area. A lot of us will find our folks on her site. I hope she corrects me when I go astray; but I believe she is trying to collect all the families of people who were in Warren Co, VA (and the region?) for the 1850 Census. Ask her. I also use the "Frederick Co. VA Marriage Bonds" a lot. She compiled the book with Rebecca Good & it was published in 1992. Shirley Starks > Have you been to Joan Hackett's world connect site. She is a terrific > researcher and we are connected thru about four or five descendants. She has > about 200 Fox listings on her site. You might find a connection. Sometimes > you have to type this link in > http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=sealock > Marge

For those interested or concerned, here is a description of rose rustling, probably first organized in the Texas area: An Organization Dedicated To The Collection and Propagation of Old Roses The Texas Rose Rustlers is a group of old rose enthusiasts, mostly from the Houston area and Central Texas, who search for specimens of surviving "old roses" in promising locations such as as cemeteries, and older communities. >From humble beginnings in the early 1980's, the Texas Rose Rustlers have made a major contribution to the world wide revival of interest in "Old Roses", and have helped reintroduce many of these treasures to commerce. With the widespread availability of access to the World Wide Web, the Texas Rose Rustlers have become a major source of reliable information. Literally hundreds of "Old Rose Enthusiasts" all over the United States, and throughout the world, now regularly share information through the Internet and help each other identify newly "found" roses. At the beginning of the 20th century there were more than 10,000 varieties of these wonderful old roses in commerce. But times and preferences changed in the 1930's and 1940's, and only about 2,000 of these beautiful, hardy, and care-free varieties of roses are still known to exist today. Rose Rustlers are people who believe that there are still thousands and thousands of these "old roses" out there, growing in little known cemeteries and along country roads, and still thriving in older neighborhoods and at abandoned home sites. So at every opportunity, we grab our clippers and go searching for these horticultural treasures. When an old rose is discovered we ask permission to take cuttings, and propagate it, in an effort to rescue it from extinction. Finding "Old Roses" is the first step in rose rustling, but it is only the beginning, because once the cuttings have been taken, they must be planted and nurtured so that they survive and thrive. Then the real work (and fun) begins - studying the "found" rose and trying to determine its true identity. This process generally takes several years, it may take decades, and some of these "found" roses may never be fully identified. But "a rose, even if unnamed, is still a rose", and many of these foundlings, and a few once thought to be extinct, have been rescued, shared, and introduced back into commerce.

In a message dated 4/2/2003 1:39:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, rfuller@shentel.net writes: > Hi, > Roses today, funeral flowers tomorrow, and birds and angels from tombstones > tomorrow? I hope you are taking pictures of these roses instead of > digging!. Lena > Oh, no. Rose rustlers take cuttings. This preserves the rose in case the weedeater or Roundup eventually gets them. This has happened to many old roses; many lost forever.

Hi, Roses today, funeral flowers tomorrow, and birds and angels from tombstones tomorrow? I hope you are taking pictures of these roses instead of digging!. Lena

Anyone know of a Shenandoah Co. cemetery that may still sport old roses on the graves? Most are so well groomed with the Weedeaters and Roundup that its hard to find any remains of the old roses these days. I like to combine my genealogy with my "rose rustling" so let me know if you even have a suspicion that there could be some roses left in any of our Shenandoah Co. public or private cemeteries. Thanks.

Would anyone have any information on Catherine KELLER who married Samuel RITTER/RUTTER. They were living in Frederick County, Virginia in 1880. Samuel Ritter was born about 1816 and Catherine was born about 1823. I would appreciate any help concerning this family. I especially need a marriage date and the names of their parents. Thank you, Chocy

Have you been to Joan Hackett's world connect site. She is a terrific researcher and we are connected thru about four or five descendants. She has about 200 Fox listings on her site. You might find a connection. Sometimes you have to type this link in http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=sealock Marge ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Fox" <wefox@ncats.net> To: <VASHENAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [VASHENAN] Hottel > Margaret, my Fox connection is through, Rosina Fox who married first, > Christian Wohlgemuth, and second after his death, Daniel Hottel. She was > daughter of my 4th greatgrandfather Frederick Fox, of Fox's Gap, Maryland. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Margaret Davis" <msealock32@msn.com> > To: <VASHENAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:10 PM > Subject: Re: [VASHENAN] Hottel > > > > Did I ask you your Fox connection. My great great grandmother was > Elizabeth > > Fox who married a Costello but they were mostly from Rappahannock and > Warren > > counties. I am still going over those cemeteries. Hope you find > something. > > Marge > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "William Fox" <wefox@ncats.net> > > To: <VASHENAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 7:23 PM > > Subject: Re: [VASHENAN] Hottel > > > > > > > Many Thanks Margaret, found the site, and will take some time going > > through > > > it. Like you said just went to google and put in Cal Sonner Cemeteries. > > Was > > > number 1 on list. Thanks a million again. > > > Bill > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Margaret Davis" <msealock32@msn.com> > > > To: <VASHENAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 6:19 PM > > > Subject: Re: [VASHENAN] Hottel > > > > > > > > > > Cal Sonner has a website where he has over 100 cemeteries. Maybe > someone > > > > could give you the address. I looked for it but cannot locate it. But > if > > > you > > > > do a google search and put in the name Sonner you will find it. This > > might > > > > help. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "William Fox" <wefox@ncats.net> > > > > To: <VASHENAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 3:35 PM > > > > Subject: [VASHENAN] Hottel > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone help me with the location of the grave of Rosina (Fox) > > > Hottel > > > > who died in about 1841 in Shenandoah Co., Va. She was the wife of > > > Christian > > > > Wohlgemuth, first. Second wife of Daniel Hottel, and her second > > marriage. > > > I > > > > have been searching for all their burial places, and have about > reached > > > the > > > > conclusion they were all buried at the Mill Site, or the Riverplace > > site, > > > > but would appreciate greatly any help on solving this. Many Thanks in > > > > advance, and for the many other favors from previous Aid. > > > > > William Fox > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== VASHENAN Mailing List ==== > > > > > Shenandoah Co VAGenWeb > > > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vashenan/vashenan.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== VASHENAN Mailing List ==== > > > > To unsubscribe, send a msg. to VASHENAN-L-request@rootsweb.com or > > > VASHENAN-D-request@rootsweb.com with the word unsubscribe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== VASHENAN Mailing List ==== > > > To unsubscribe, send a msg. to VASHENAN-L-request@rootsweb.com or > > VASHENAN-D-request@rootsweb.com with the word unsubscribe. > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== VASHENAN Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe, send a msg. to VASHENAN-L-request@rootsweb.com or > VASHENAN-D-request@rootsweb.com with the word unsubscribe. > > > > > > > > > > ==== VASHENAN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe, send a msg. to VASHENAN-L-request@rootsweb.com or VASHENAN-D-request@rootsweb.com with the word unsubscribe. > >

I am looking for Estelle, have you changed your e-mail address, I cannot get in touch with you...... Pauline