Thanks, Joe. I believe I know where Tanner's Ridge is. Is there an overlook on Skyline Drive there or nearby? But to back me up, would you take a look at the map on my web site. It shows the grant to my 3rd grant, Henry Pence, located just southeast of Marksville. Go to www.pipeline.com/~richardpence Scroll down a little to the Genealogies Section. Right after the link to "the Hawksbill Pences" is a link to the map. One of the deeds also says that it is "on" Rich Mountain at the head of the Hawksbill. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [VASHENAN] Land Location (Rich Mountain) > > In a message dated 9/16/2007 1:45:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > I'm wondering if anyone can help on this. Henry's grant was located just > southeast of Marksville, Page County. His grant adjoined that of two of > his > brothers about one mile to the southeast. You can see a map of these > grants > at the home page of my website: www.pipeline.com/~richardpence/ > > My question is: Has anyone ever heard of "Rich Mountain"? Henry's > original > grant is described as being on the Little Hawksbill at the foot of Rich > Mountain. > > I can't find this mountain on any map. I have wondered if "Rich" is the > result of the German pronunciation of "Ridge" (shades of Lawrence Welk!). > But then I can't find a Ridge Mountain either. > > Any ideas? > > > > The Gazetteer of Page County, Virginia, in Frederick Findings, Vol. 6, > Issue > 2, pg.134 (Spring 1993 Issue) has information and references on Rich > Mountain. Based on Fairfax Surveys, etc., it was suggested Rich Mountain > was in the > general area, if not part, of Tanner's Ridge. > > Joe Baker > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In a message dated 9/16/2007 1:45:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: I'm wondering if anyone can help on this. Henry's grant was located just southeast of Marksville, Page County. His grant adjoined that of two of his brothers about one mile to the southeast. You can see a map of these grants at the home page of my website: www.pipeline.com/~richardpence/ My question is: Has anyone ever heard of "Rich Mountain"? Henry's original grant is described as being on the Little Hawksbill at the foot of Rich Mountain. I can't find this mountain on any map. I have wondered if "Rich" is the result of the German pronunciation of "Ridge" (shades of Lawrence Welk!). But then I can't find a Ridge Mountain either. Any ideas? The Gazetteer of Page County, Virginia, in Frederick Findings, Vol. 6, Issue 2, pg.134 (Spring 1993 Issue) has information and references on Rich Mountain. Based on Fairfax Surveys, etc., it was suggested Rich Mountain was in the general area, if not part, of Tanner's Ridge. Joe Baker ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

There is a Rich Mountain not to far over the WV border almost due west of Shenandoah Co. </HTML>

"CA HACKER" <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks everyone for your help for the land location. I was not even > thinking of Page County because, as far as I knew, my Hoop family never > owned land there. But then again I know that genealogy is a never ending > process with lots of unknowns to be solved! Carole My ancestor, Henry Pence, never owned land in Page County either. The reason is that the land he owned was in Shenandoah County when he sold it and moved to Ohio in 1805. The grant on which he lived is, of course, now in Page County, created from Shenandoah in1831. I'm wondering if anyone can help on this. Henry's grant was located just southeast of Marksville, Page County. His grant adjoined that of two of his brothers about one mile to the southeast. You can see a map of these grants at the home page of my website: www.pipeline.com/~richardpence/ My question is: Has anyone ever heard of "Rich Mountain"? Henry's original grant is described as being on the Little Hawksbill at the foot of Rich Mountain. I can't find this mountain on any map. I have wondered if "Rich" is the result of the German pronunciation of "Ridge" (shades of Lawrence Welk!). But then I can't find a Ridge Mountain either. Any ideas? Richard A. Pence 3211 Adams Ct, Fairfax, VA 22030-1900 Voice 703-591-4243 / Fax 703-352-3560 Pence Family History <www.pipeline.com/~richardpence/>

Thanks everyone for your help for the land location. I was not even thinking of Page County because, as far as I knew, my Hoop family never owned land there. But then again I know that genealogy is a never ending process with lots of unknowns to be solved! Carole

Hawksbill Creek runs through the town of Luray in present Page County, VA. South River is the South fork of the Shenandoah River. I'm not sure where Piney Woods is, but there is a Piney Grove and Piney Mountain south of Luray near the Stanley area. Check out Page County maps. - CA HACKER <[email protected]> wrote: I am looking at a 1833 land transfer that lists the "tract of land lying and being situated in the Piney Woods between Hawksbill and the South River". Shenandoah Co. Deed Book A. Can anyone give me an area where this land was located? Thanks, Carole ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am looking at a 1833 land transfer that lists the "tract of land lying and being situated in the Piney Woods between Hawksbill and the South River". Shenandoah Co. Deed Book A. Can anyone give me an area where this land was located? Thanks, Carole

I am getting back into Genealogy after a big break and am checking old message boards i had saved......... I have a question regarding who your bakers are........ My grandmother is a baker and I am researching her family. They have been in Iroquois co., Illinois..... Floyd Co., Indiana....... Shenandoah Co., VA....... Any help on this family would be appreciated Tracy Staadt ----- Original Message ---- From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:13:11 PM Subject: [VASHENAN] Funkhouser Who wanted information on Funkhouser? I have found some in my Baker family book. Betty Lou <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ____________________________________________________________________________________ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/

Thanks everybody who replied to my questions. My cousin (and partner in crime :o) talked to an attorney regarding VA law on this matter. As someone mentioned in their reply, funeral homes were not required to be licensed until 1950, so there was no law regarding records before then. From 1950 on, funeral homes were required to keep records regarding funerals, burial, other services rendered, for 10 years. After 10 years, they are supposed to send them to the Dept. of Vital Statistics. Many funeral homes did keep records before 1950, so it's worth a phone call to inquire. Thanks again, Lynnie

Funeral Homes are private businesses. As other swrote they have no obligation to keep records. beyond Company & financial things. There are few thing to know: They currently keep great files One is the log book which enters anything that comes in & our their door (Not live visitors). They have a file of the remains they have handled which could include The records include the funeral plans and costs..[I know the color & cost of the socks put on a g-grandfather. Since SS# death certificates required them. Most request a picture of the decedent. Some keep obits and other info in their files so as to know if later burial requests for use of a family plot is a valid request. There are records of the identification #s of the casket & vaults Some funeral homes have fiched or microfilmed their older records Funeral Homes today are a corporate business and some have not kept the records of the former owners. Ask them who the former owner(s) were and if the have those records or where there can be found. Some have been extracted, compiled, published and placed with the county library and state historical society and/or archive. Most know where the cemeteries in their burial areas are located. Funeral Home personnel complete the temporary death certificate information and handle its process until it is delivered to the cemetery personnel before burial. They forward it to the State Vital Statistics Office. 1900 States began licensing Funeral Directors & Embalmers 1920 the number of funeral homes increased 1980s Funeral Homes were licensed The first funeral homes were often the local cabinet maker and or hardware. These records are most likely still in family private records or have been placed in the nearest archive, be it a university, historical society or state archives, now to be know as a manuscript collection. Manuscript collections are named for the donor, or the name of the business. A large funeral home in a city may have the most complete collection of the local business directories. Phyllis Spiker ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

We've never had a problem with funeral homes either. They have all been most cooperative. Also if you can find the sexton of a cemetery, they are most helpful too as the cemeteries keep records too which in some cases give a lot of information. We know of a few that even have obits along with their records. Russell and Gloria Bushong ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

I don't think they have a legal obligation beyond the financial records they would need for tax and accounting purposes, but I know of no funeral home or cemetery that does not keep records. The ones I've been to had records going back to when they opened and had no problem letting me see them. Bev In a message dated 9/5/2007 10:22:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Hello All, Does anyone know if funeral homes are bound by law to keep records of funerals, burials, they have conducted? If so, how long must these records be kept. Who would have access to them? Would the Freedom of Information Act have any bearing here? Would the time that records must be kept vary from county to county, or state to state? Thanks for any information or sources. Lynnie [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Carole, I too am a descendant of William Peters.....and suggest the following: get on rootsweb.com, fill in name of AMOS PETERS, on the next screen click on WORLD CONNECT, scroll down to bottom of that page and click on page 6, scroll down looking under the column entitled DATA BASE, click on one that says rwjustus, then click on p for peters , next screen scroll down and click on PETERS (273), then keep scrolling down until you come to William Peters b Oct 1790 Shenandoah, click on WIlliam, then click on AHNENTAFEL and you should have what you want. I hope this is explained OK. Good Luck, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "CA HACKER" <[email protected]> To: "Shenandoah" <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:53 PM Subject: [VASHENAN] Peters Family >I have hit a brick wall with my William Peters's ancestors. I have a copy >of the Peters Family Bible but it starts with William so it is no help for >ancestors. > > William Peters was born October 19, 1790 (where ?), died 1849 Shenandoah > County. > On September 08, 1809 he married Hannah Lamberson (1786, Pine Grove, PA - > 1855, Shenandoah County) in Shenandoah County. Hannah was the daughter of > Jeremiah Lamberson, an iron worker at the furnaces. Lamberson can be > spelled many different ways - Lummerson, Lamerson, Lambertson, ect. > William and Hannah were farmers in the Forestville, Quicksburg area. > They named their first son John & second son Jeremiah for Hannah's father. > So I am thinking (maybe) that William's father name was John. > I have been told by family members that William Peters came down the > Ulrick Peters line (early settlers in Shenandoah) to John Peters, Jr. and > Christina Longenachre but have yet to see any proof. > Also I see where other researchers list him as the son of Jacob Peters and > Frances Simms of the New River Valley in Giles County. > I will be going to Shenandoah County soon and any suggestions of what to > research will be most welcome. Thanks, Carole > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello All, Does anyone know if funeral homes are bound by law to keep records of funerals, burials, they have conducted? If so, how long must these records be kept. Who would have access to them? Would the Freedom of Information Act have any bearing here? Would the time that records must be kept vary from county to county, or state to state? Thanks for any information or sources. Lynnie [email protected]

I have hit a brick wall with my William Peters's ancestors. I have a copy of the Peters Family Bible but it starts with William so it is no help for ancestors. William Peters was born October 19, 1790 (where ?), died 1849 Shenandoah County. On September 08, 1809 he married Hannah Lamberson (1786, Pine Grove, PA - 1855, Shenandoah County) in Shenandoah County. Hannah was the daughter of Jeremiah Lamberson, an iron worker at the furnaces. Lamberson can be spelled many different ways - Lummerson, Lamerson, Lambertson, ect. William and Hannah were farmers in the Forestville, Quicksburg area. They named their first son John & second son Jeremiah for Hannah's father. So I am thinking (maybe) that William's father name was John. I have been told by family members that William Peters came down the Ulrick Peters line (early settlers in Shenandoah) to John Peters, Jr. and Christina Longenachre but have yet to see any proof. Also I see where other researchers list him as the son of Jacob Peters and Frances Simms of the New River Valley in Giles County. I will be going to Shenandoah County soon and any suggestions of what to research will be most welcome. Thanks, Carole

John Miller b. 3 Apr. 1809 Shenandoah Co VA church records St Pauls Strasburg VA m. 18 Feb 1833-to Mary Ann Piper, Shen Co Marriages dau/o David John Miller d. c 1891 Strasburg, VA--letter from Mrs Ruth A. Ehringer to David Balthis 15 Jan 1991. Info probably compiled by B. A. Deatrick, Harrison Co., In. Mary Ann died c. 1891 -- letter from Ehringer to Balthis 1991. David Balthis now dec'd. John buried Mt Hebron Winchester VA--letter, Ehringer to Balthis 1991 John was a carpenter & son of William Miller. William Miller was b.1773 Shen. Co VA-d. 20 July 1831 Harrison Co IN--married 25 Apr 1797 Shen Co VA . William was a carpenter. His father was Valentine Miller who married Sophia last name unknown at this time. William married Mary Magdalene Copenhaver d/o Jacob and Susanna Juliana last name unknown at this time. I am not a descendant of the Miller Family. Was just a friend of David Balthis now dec'd who was connected to this Family. David Balthis sent this Family's group sheet on 2 Aug 1997 and reflects his corrections of info from Ehringer and Deatrick.

A study of John Miller who married Lucy Spiker. Information within [ ] is evidence from other records or comments. Data from a marriage license of John Miller who married Lucy Spiker 11 December 1865 with a return by Elder George Shaver. [I have found no marriage bo nd or consent; therefore no signature for this John Miller.] John Spiker was the son of William Miller & Mary ____ John was a widow age 55; Lucy single, age 49. [His birth year was ca 1810] [He probably did not marry before 1830] [I do not find in my collection of marriage bonds a Miller bride or groom who has a father John] [There are a few possibilities of brides who were daus of a John Miller listed in Vogt & Kethley; these Miller daughters & husbands records should be checked.] [Deeds of land or other items from named parents. Survey calls identifying adjacent owners.] [Census - looking for a widowed parent in the household or married children in the parent(s)' household or living adjacent. as well study censuses of all Miller families to connect as many as possible] [Wills and deeds of all Millers looking for association; One never knows when parents died. There can be interesting records of probate including guardianship if any child was not of legal age when the parent died leaving property and/or valuables that needed tended to.] [Check surrounding counties for John Miller & ___ ____ marriages and check as well as William Miller & Mary ____ ] John Miller residence in 1865 was Strasburg; [The 1850 and 1860 census may well identify his 1st first wife and any children. Check for these children's marriages.] [1860 Shenandoah Co., VA Census no William Miller indexed is old enough to be this John Miller's father.] [1850Shenandoah Co., VA Census no William Miller indexed is old enough to be this John Miller's father.] [1840 Shenandoah CO census has one William Indexed at Ancestry.com He is age 30-40 [born ca. 1760- 70. He could be this John Miller's father.] [ The only marriage in Vogt & Kethley Shenandoah Co VA Marriage Bonds, 1772-1850 is William Miller and Mary Copenhaver, bond date 25 April 1797; bondsman John Boyle. [1795 June 23 John Boyle was bondsman for Jacob Yost to marry Catherine Baker, dau of Michael Baker.] [Note: On the marriage license John Miller was a carpenter. Jacob Yost was a joiner; this is from an apprentice record. Samuel Spiker was a carpenter; he was listed in the 1787 Shenandoah Co., VA Personal Property Tax in the household of Jacob Yost. There is a slight association but weak as to identifying your John Miller.] [If the census 1840 Shenandoah Co., VA census is a completer listing of all residents, this William Miller may be the only candidate. Lucy Spiker was born ca 1816, the dau of Joseph Spiker and Ann_____. Lucy's residence in 1867 was Maurertown. [1850 census - Lucy, age 32 [b.ca 1818] is in the household of Anna Spiker age 79 [b.ca 1771] in VA . If Lucy is the daughter of Anna, Anna was age ca 47 when Lucy was born. >From my research I can not identify/connect Lucy's father as Joseph Spiker. Lucy should be the daughter of Samuel Spiker and Anna Hockman.] [1860 Lucy Spiker is not found in the Ancestry.Com census index. [Look for identification help using the evidences known about the association: Marriages between one or more Miller families and Spikers. By following those marriages one might be able to put the families together based on the marriage bonds. I have none in my files that name a William Miller or Mary Miller as the parent. But I have had no reason to copy all Miller marriage bonds, deeds, probate, etc.] Let me know if this helps. Phyllis Vannoy Spiker ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Donna, The way to positively identify connected persons is to collect all primary and secondary records of the same surnames and evaluate the signatures on the primary documents such as marriage bonds and consents, court cases and estate files and statements on the secondary documents/recordings such as deeds which should name the wife on a sale if she is alive as well as her dower's release. Unless you are lucky to find a manuscript collection with the deeds of sale which has the seller's signature on an undelivered deed which should still be in the county court loose papers or transferred to a Historical Society or more likely to the Library of Virginia; these are very few but I have found one in another county. Look at the margins of the deed in the recording book; it usually has written abbreviations for examined & delivered. It is my understanding examined = recorded; delivered = given to the buyer or another person to deliver to the buyer. Collect all recordings/copies of an event. Example: The marriage bond has a style side which usually has written Grooms last name to the Governor of the state and a date. It may say other things including naming the brides father who was present and gave his consent. Not the usual consent note which father writes or someone else writes and father makes his mark in which case there are usually 2 Teste (witnesses). The marriage bond and the consent are usually microfilmed next to each other but they can be "our of order', keep reading. Do copy both sides of any document. The bottom line is we look for statements that connects 2 individuals, ie. father-daughter, husband-wife. Wills in which children are named and yes an illegitimate one claimed. Study the personal property tax lists to determine when they became age 21 as they were supposed to be then named and if living with father .. bingo! In a new email: More, specifically, regarding identifying John Miller who married Lucy Spiker 11 July 1865 Phyllis Vannoy Spiker ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

In "Shenandoah County Marriages" by John Voght and T. William Kethley, Jr. page 155 it states that the John Miller who married Mary Ann Bowers is the son of Jacob Miller. ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Miller<mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 4:50 PM Subject: [VASHENAN] Same-Name dilemma: MILLER I am researching John Miller, b. 1809 in Shenandoah Co., son of William and Mary Magdalene Copenhaver Miller. He married in 1833; wife was Mary Ann. Problem is there were two marriage licenses issued that year for a John Miller and a Mary Ann. First was John Miller to Mary Ann Piper, daughter of David Piper on 18 Feb 1833. Second was John Miller to Mary Ann Bowers on 10 Jun 1833. Any suggestions on how to determine which one is the son of William and Mary Miller? The one I’m researching (John) was a widower in 1865 when he married Lucy Spiker. There is a Mary Ann Miller, wife of John and daughter of David Piper, buried in the Miller-Minnick-Barb Cemetery, and her date of death is 1874. Information passed down to me through the Miller family indicates that Mary Ann Piper is our ancestor, but I’m thinking that may be incorrect. Part of the difficulty in determining who’s who is that there were MANY people named John Miller living in Shenandoah Co between 1810-1890. Donna Miller (865) 691-9702 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.3/986 - Release Date: 9/3/2007 9:31 AM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

You should check to see who the bondsmen were for the two marriages. And you may find land deeds very helpful. Sometimes the father sells land to the children, or there is a settlement at death, etc. that may name the children. Witnesses may provide a clue too. Good luck. I am looking for information on John Miller and Elizabeth Stumboch/Stumback/Stambaugh/Stamback who married in 1794, in SHenandoah County. I you run across information on them I would appreciate hearing from you. Also on a John Miller and Nancy Allen who married in 1819. ---- Donna Miller <[email protected]> wrote: I am researching John Miller, b. 1809 in Shenandoah Co., son of William and Mary Magdalene Copenhaver Miller. He married in 1833; wife was Mary Ann. Problem is there were two marriage licenses issued that year for a John Miller and a Mary Ann. First was John Miller to Mary Ann Piper, daughter of David Piper on 18 Feb 1833. Second was John Miller to Mary Ann Bowers on 10 Jun 1833. Any suggestions on how to determine which one is the son of William and Mary Miller? The one I’m researching (John) was a widower in 1865 when he married Lucy Spiker. There is a Mary Ann Miller, wife of John and daughter of David Piper, buried in the Miller-Minnick-Barb Cemetery, and her date of death is 1874. Information passed down to me through the Miller family indicates that Mary Ann Piper is our ancestor, but I’m thinking that may be incorrect. Part of the difficulty in determining who’s who is that there were MANY people named John Miller living in Shenandoah Co between 1810-1890. Donna Miller (865) 691-9702 [email protected] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.3/986 - Release Date: 9/3/2007 9:31 AM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message