Thanks Steve - That might resolve the issue. This is probably the worse page of all the copies I made - it's very dark and difficult to read. Bev ========Original Message======== Subj: [VAROOTS] "kil by" Date: 9/30/2005 12:58:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: [email protected] Reply-to: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent from the Internet (Details) From: Elizabeth I think that you had this already. In reference to the question regarding the meaning of the "Kil by" abbreviation: Here is all I could come up with. I don't really understand what "kil by" could be. However, the Official Records of the War of the Rebellion, Series I, Volume XIX, for the Antietam campaign has a report of Captain John G. Barnwell, Reserve Artillery, CSA, of operations September 14-19, 1862, which he states in part: "Colonel Lee the next morning was sent with his command to a place called Centreville [Keedysville], and General Pendleton was ordered to cross the Potomac at Williamsport to guard the fords...One of his batteries (Captain [D.] Watson's) was sent, on the 17th to Sharpsburg, but was not engaged. The remaining battalion, commanded by Major Nelson and composed of the battteries [of] Captains T.J. Kirkpatrick, John Milledge, Ancell M. Johnson, and [Charles T.] Huckstep, reached Shepherdstown on the 16th, and were assigned their position on the heights commanding the ford a mile below the town. they remained there during the engagement of the 17th...The casualties were as follows........Captain Huckstep lost one iron 6-pounder and limber, 1 man killed, and 4 horses disabled. There were casualties in other batteries, but no pieces of ordnance stores lost..." This was the closest reference that I could find in relation to what you sent me. It is not worded the same but it seems to be reporting the same events The battle of Antietam occurred on the 17th of September but the Antietam Campaign is considered to be between 2-22 September 1862. A skirmish on the 19th could have been in relation to General Lee's retreat back across the Potomac River into Virginia which took place on the 18th and 19th. General Pendleton referred to was William N. Pendleton, Gen. Robert E. Lee's Chief of Artillery, Army of Northern Virginia. Sorry I could not be of any more assistance. Steve Wright ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

From: Elizabeth I think that you had this already. In reference to the question regarding the meaning of the "Kil by" abbreviation: Here is all I could come up with. I don't really understand what "kil by" could be. However, the Official Records of the War of the Rebellion, Series I, Volume XIX, for the Antietam campaign has a report of Captain John G. Barnwell, Reserve Artillery, CSA, of operations September 14-19, 1862, which he states in part: "Colonel Lee the next morning was sent with his command to a place called Centreville [Keedysville], and General Pendleton was ordered to cross the Potomac at Williamsport to guard the fords...One of his batteries (Captain [D.] Watson's) was sent, on the 17th to Sharpsburg, but was not engaged. The remaining battalion, commanded by Major Nelson and composed of the battteries [of] Captains T.J. Kirkpatrick, John Milledge, Ancell M. Johnson, and [Charles T.] Huckstep, reached Shepherdstown on the 16th, and were assigned their position on the heights commanding the ford a mile below the town. they remained there during the engagement of the 17th...The casualties were as follows........Captain Huckstep lost one iron 6-pounder and limber, 1 man killed, and 4 horses disabled. There were casualties in other batteries, but no pieces of ordnance stores lost..." This was the closest reference that I could find in relation to what you sent me. It is not worded the same but it seems to be reporting the same events The battle of Antietam occurred on the 17th of September but the Antietam Campaign is considered to be between 2-22 September 1862. A skirmish on the 19th could have been in relation to General Lee's retreat back across the Potomac River into Virginia which took place on the 18th and 19th. General Pendleton referred to was William N. Pendleton, Gen. Robert E. Lee's Chief of Artillery, Army of Northern Virginia. Sorry I could not be of any more assistance. Steve Wright

AMEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Darlene > May I suggest that those wishing to continue the "Education" discussion do > it privately. > > JDRodgers > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

Great reply! I don't know how it could said better. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Garrelts" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:41 PM Subject: [VAROOTS] Re: Education: A Teacher's Point of View > I am a 55-year old teacher and I want you all to know that most of the > students of today will have the skills they need to be successful adults. > It won't be the same set of skills that our parents or grandparents learned, > and it won't be the same set of skills you or I learned, but it will be the > set of skills they need. > > I learned to type in 8th grade. Children today learn keyboarding skills in > elementary school. > > The first foreign language I was able to take in school was Latin in the 9th > grade (yuck). Our 4th graders receive daily instruction in Spanish. > > I learned algebra in 9th grade. Students today start learning algebra in > 5th grade. > > Elementary students today use PowerPoint to present projects. We thought > poster board was the top-of-the-line material for serious projects. > > Students use our in-school TV production studio to produce daily newscasts. > We sat around sniffing those purple ditto pages and thought those were > something special. > > Our family trips were to other states. Their family trips are often to > another part of the world. > > I learned to read and write in first grade. We have students starting > kindergarten who can read and write. > > Penmanship has definitely gone downhill. Geography is a mystery. But we > practice so we are ready for fires, tornadoes, bombs, and intruders. We've > practiced evacuating our building and walking to another building blocks > away. > > When it comes to sewing and woodworking, we'll probably have to help them > out. When it comes to technology, they often help us out. > > I know there are inferior schools and inferior teachers. We have children > who have a hard time no matter what we do, and we have other children who > could learn no matter what we did. We wouldn't do well on some tests from a > hundred years ago any more than they would taking some of the tests in > schools today. > > Better? Worse? No, just diffferent. If you're not convinced, come spend a > day with us and see for yourself. > > Nancy > > > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429 > >

May I suggest that those wishing to continue the "Education" discussion do it privately. JDRodgers

I teach many Asian children. They typically do extremely well in school because their parents won't accept anything less. Sometimes they are harshly punished for less than perfect grades. Even some of the top students spend much of their Saturdays with tutors. These families show the highest respect to teachers. Consider then the students who go home to an empty home or apartment. No books, no newspapers, no magazines. No one to read you stories, no one to help you with your homework. You eat both breakfast and lunch at school and you may be responsible for fixing your own dinner. You've never been to the public library and you've never been given money to spend in a bookstore. You stay home from school on days that it rains because you don't have a raincoat or umbrella. You stay home on days that your mom needs you to babysit your little brother because she wants to go to the laundromat without him. You're not sure what your address is because you just moved to a new apartment again because rent was past due at the previous apartment. As taxpayers we can get mighty tired of providing for the welfare moms who have numerous children by numerous men, but that cycle is not likely to break until we reach their children. The socio-economic level of a child is the single biggest indicator of success in school.

John, Very simple. Out schools are funded (mostly) by property taxes and school bonds. The schools in other countries aren't. You get what you pay for. Bob Juch http://www.Juch.org -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:39 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Fw: [VAROOTS] Re: Education: A Teacher's Point of View Paul, I agree with you, however we can't avoid the fact that on average, the American high school student does poorly compared to his Asian or European counterpart, and I am not sure why that is because both our children were educated in European and American schools. We did not see much of a disparity in what was being taught, the manner in which it was being taught, environment or even the curriculum. What is also puzzling is how can our colleges and universities be some of the best in the world while our primary and secondary schools are third rate in some cases and it has nothing to do with the quality of teacher.

I teach in metropolitan Atlanta in a public school district that stretches for 70 miles. This district includes children of all socio-economic levels. Whatever programs and facilities that are available to one elementary school, must be available to all the elementary schools in our district. For our 78,000 students, this is the real world. We have many children who travel out of the country because they are immigrants to the United States. What school districts have or don't have depends on the support or lack of support from their taxpayers.

Paul, I agree with you, however we can't avoid the fact that on average, the American high school student does poorly compared to his Asian or European counterpart, and I am not sure why that is because both our children were educated in European and American schools. We did not see much of a disparity in what was being taught, the manner in which it was being taught, environment or even the curriculum. What is also puzzling is how can our colleges and universities be some of the best in the world while our primary and secondary schools are third rate in some cases and it has nothing to do with the quality of teacher. > > From: "Paul Drake" <[email protected]> > Date: 2005/09/29 Thu PM 08:20:30 EDT > To: [email protected] > Subject: Fw: [VAROOTS] Re: Education: A Teacher's Point of View > > > Subject: Re: [VAROOTS] Re: Education: A Teacher's Point of View > > > I would ask that all consider that - be it in the days of Plato or those of any one of us, adequacy of schooling has always been measured by what was necessary to be a well-rounded participant in THOSE societies. We do not now, nor ever have we, measured education by the societal needs of someone, somewhere else, in some other time. > > Paul > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > >

I suppose, it now being widely stated that we have a "world community", that it is politically correct to compare our students to those of other nations and other societies. Still yet, I do wonder if the intellectual accomplishments of kids somewhere else should be the standard by which our own youth are to be judged. I think whether or not our youth are "behind" those of other nations and societies, or may be described as "lacking in fundamentals that will be needed in the 21st Century is only valid if we first assume that our capacity to be worthwhile Americans and happy in life depends on what those others do. I don't know.......... ??? ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:38 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [VAROOTS] Re: Education: A Teacher's Point of View Paul, I agree with you, however we can't avoid the fact that on average, the American high school student does poorly compared to his Asian or European counterpart, and I am not sure why that is because both our children were educated in European and American schools. We did not see much of a disparity in what was being taught, the manner in which it was being taught, environment or even the curriculum. What is also puzzling is how can our colleges and universities be some of the best in the world while our primary and secondary schools are third rate in some cases and it has nothing to do with the quality of teacher. > > From: "Paul Drake" <[email protected]> > Date: 2005/09/29 Thu PM 08:20:30 EDT > To: [email protected] > Subject: Fw: [VAROOTS] Re: Education: A Teacher's Point of View > > > Subject: Re: [VAROOTS] Re: Education: A Teacher's Point of View > > > I would ask that all consider that - be it in the days of Plato or those of any one of us, adequacy of schooling has always been measured by what was necessary to be a well-rounded participant in THOSE societies. We do not now, nor ever have we, measured education by the societal needs of someone, somewhere else, in some other time. > > Paul > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/114 - Release Date: 9/28/2005

Very well said Nancy. I am a teacher also. christy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Garrelts" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:41 PM Subject: [VAROOTS] Re: Education: A Teacher's Point of View >I am a 55-year old teacher and I want you all to know that most of the >students of today will have the skills they need to be successful adults. >It won't be the same set of skills that our parents or grandparents >learned, and it won't be the same set of skills you or I learned, but it >will be the set of skills they need. > > I learned to type in 8th grade. Children today learn keyboarding skills > in elementary school. > > The first foreign language I was able to take in school was Latin in the > 9th grade (yuck). Our 4th graders receive daily instruction in Spanish. > > I learned algebra in 9th grade. Students today start learning algebra in > 5th grade. > > Elementary students today use PowerPoint to present projects. We thought > poster board was the top-of-the-line material for serious projects. > > Students use our in-school TV production studio to produce daily > newscasts. We sat around sniffing those purple ditto pages and thought > those were something special. > > Our family trips were to other states. Their family trips are often to > another part of the world. > > I learned to read and write in first grade. We have students starting > kindergarten who can read and write. > > Penmanship has definitely gone downhill. Geography is a mystery. But we > practice so we are ready for fires, tornadoes, bombs, and intruders. > We've practiced evacuating our building and walking to another building > blocks away. > > When it comes to sewing and woodworking, we'll probably have to help them > out. When it comes to technology, they often help us out. > > I know there are inferior schools and inferior teachers. We have children > who have a hard time no matter what we do, and we have other children who > could learn no matter what we did. We wouldn't do well on some tests from > a hundred years ago any more than they would taking some of the tests in > schools today. > > Better? Worse? No, just diffferent. If you're not convinced, come spend > a day with us and see for yourself. > > Nancy > > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >

I am a 55-year old teacher and I want you all to know that most of the students of today will have the skills they need to be successful adults. It won't be the same set of skills that our parents or grandparents learned, and it won't be the same set of skills you or I learned, but it will be the set of skills they need. I learned to type in 8th grade. Children today learn keyboarding skills in elementary school. The first foreign language I was able to take in school was Latin in the 9th grade (yuck). Our 4th graders receive daily instruction in Spanish. I learned algebra in 9th grade. Students today start learning algebra in 5th grade. Elementary students today use PowerPoint to present projects. We thought poster board was the top-of-the-line material for serious projects. Students use our in-school TV production studio to produce daily newscasts. We sat around sniffing those purple ditto pages and thought those were something special. Our family trips were to other states. Their family trips are often to another part of the world. I learned to read and write in first grade. We have students starting kindergarten who can read and write. Penmanship has definitely gone downhill. Geography is a mystery. But we practice so we are ready for fires, tornadoes, bombs, and intruders. We've practiced evacuating our building and walking to another building blocks away. When it comes to sewing and woodworking, we'll probably have to help them out. When it comes to technology, they often help us out. I know there are inferior schools and inferior teachers. We have children who have a hard time no matter what we do, and we have other children who could learn no matter what we did. We wouldn't do well on some tests from a hundred years ago any more than they would taking some of the tests in schools today. Better? Worse? No, just diffferent. If you're not convinced, come spend a day with us and see for yourself. Nancy

Oh no! I didn't intend that at all - just that todays standards are not what they used to be. I know teacher's hands are tied and I think it's terrible. Bev ========Original Message======== Subj: Re: FW: [VAROOTS] Education Date: 9/29/2005 4:29:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: [email protected] Reply-to: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent from the Internet (Details) One final word by way of apology to our teachers both practicing and retired. If you are under the impression you are being faulted for the present educational system, please understand that as a parent and grandparent, I am fully aware of what a load you are handed as well as how very handicapped you are by the system. I have encountered the attitude in the system toward teachers who truly desire to inspire your students to greater heights, and you are bound up with the system, the law and goodness what else that says "thus far but no further". You are to be lauded for your courage, persistance and patience. Thank you one all! __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429

Subject: Re: [VAROOTS] Re: Education: A Teacher's Point of View I would ask that all consider that - be it in the days of Plato or those of any one of us, adequacy of schooling has always been measured by what was necessary to be a well-rounded participant in THOSE societies. We do not now, nor ever have we, measured education by the societal needs of someone, somewhere else, in some other time. Paul ----- Original Message -----

If more people would take this route we would not have the USA bashing we are now seeing. I read the Golden Books on historical events and people to my sons before they could walk and talk. They enjoyed the pictures and would point to George Washington and other early heroes when I asked "Who is this?" My two sons are still steeped in history. It makes a big difference when you are interested in training up a child in the way it should go. Dorothy C. White [email protected] 804.795.4296 > -----Original Message----- > From: Excalibur131 [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:04 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [VAROOTS] Education > > > Excellent words Pat and forgive me for <snipping> part of > them out. I only > wanted to comment on one particular piece. :-) > > Please don't "oops" the watching TV part. HA HA HA I realize > that there is a > lot of trash on TV, but there is some excellent programming > out there too. > I'm going to use one example and then, hopefully, I'll stop. > > A little over a year ago my, then 1-1/2 year old, grandson > and I stumbled > into a program on PBS called "Liberty's Kids." I noticed that > he seemed to > enjoy it, so we would try to watch it from time to time. PBS > stopped running > the show, so we bought one of the DVD's probably this past January or > February. We've since bought several more. > > My grandson is now 2 years, 9 months old. He talks about and > recognizes > people like George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, John Paul > Jones, et. al. > He has been introduced to American History and freedom. He > knows there is a > difference between free men and women working and slavery; > although I will > admit that the entire concept of slavery seems to escape him > right now. He > has seen statues and paintings of Washington and Franklin and > recognizes who > they are. We take him to historic areas and he pretends that > many of those > same people are there. When we go to B&N and he spots a book > in the kids > section about the American Revolution he asks his mom to get > it and we all > take turns reading it with him. > > It's amazing what a little show like "Liberty's Kids" will do > and how a > person so young watches, listens, and tries to understand. TV > isn't all > bad -- just like everything you hear about computers isn't > all bad. It has > been amazing for me to watch him grow and learn in a fun way. > We didn't > force feed him any of this, he wanted it and I am so happy about it. > > Off my soap box now. :-) > Tom > Royalty to Rogues > http://www.l-dunaway.net/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kith-n-Kin" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:16 PM > Subject: RE: [VAROOTS] Education > > <snip> > > Do my children and grandchildren know about the world, literature, > > math, > > science, history, etc.? Probably > > more, in some respects, than these students -- and did > after the 8th > > grade. Now, they didn't get it all in > > school, but they got it by traveling, watching TV (oops), > reading books, > > and so on. Sometimes I'm > > irritated about what is taught, and how well (don't even > get me started on > > phonics -- or lack of them), > > and I think schools should last more hours and for more days, etc. > <snip> > > > > Pat (in Tucson -- proud fourth generation professional educator -- > > happily > > retired, thank you!) > > > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for > your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family > and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sou rceid=14599&targetid=5429

One final word by way of apology to our teachers both practicing and retired. If you are under the impression you are being faulted for the present educational system, please understand that as a parent and grandparent, I am fully aware of what a load you are handed as well as how very handicapped you are by the system. I have encountered the attitude in the system toward teachers who truly desire to inspire your students to greater heights, and you are bound up with the system, the law and goodness what else that says "thus far but no further". You are to be lauded for your courage, persistance and patience. Thank you one all! __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com

Bev I pullled my copy of my g-grandfather's service records which were on microfilm at the archives in Jackson, MS. What I have appears to be a standard form used by a copyist which simply states "Name appears as signature to an Oath of Allegiance to the Univted States, subscribed to at Fort Delaware, Del., June 11, 1865." His unit etc are handwritten I assume by the copyist. His name is given as N. V. Dickson. If he had signed with an X, would the copyist have known it was N. V. Dickson? The Fort Delaware Society was able to tell me that he was admitted to the post hostital twice (5/3/65 and 5/15/65) and was held in Prison Division 11. Also, regarding "awol" notes on his records, he awol during the period in which we was a POW. Thanks for your help. Joyce

Looking for info on a William DEAN that married a Sarah E unknown in Virginia. He was born abt 1799. Sarah E born abt 1802. They moved to Gallatin County, KY bef 1827. They had 7 children. Three I know the names of. Jeremiah, James V, Sarah J. The others were born bet 1830 an 1840. Any help would greatly be appreciated. Thank you for your time. Don Smith Knoxville, TN

A good percentage of our students tested in the U.S. would not be accepted in academic programs in other countries thereby would not show up on their academic testing scale. Asia/Europe start early on "weeding out" and redirecting average and lower performing students to trades, etc. Comparing the U.S. to Europe or Asia is not an even comparison as you are dealing with the "apples to oranges" theory. Their high ability students are taught in a very competitive atmosphere and get further without the distractions that occur in the regular mixed abilityclassrooms in the U.S. Too often in U.S. our high ability students serve as "peer tutors" to slower students rather than have opportunities available to move at a faster pace themselves. Someone mentioned "dumbing down" ---- watch for results as it has been passed into law. Public school will see a real problem with the President's NCLB Law as it targets bringing up the low performing end of the scale rather than developing the high abilities end of the scale. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Parrott" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 1:07 PM Subject: Re: Re: [VAROOTS] Education > I agree there are many talented young and not so young people, but so was > there back when my grandfather went to school and always the best and > brightest rise to whatever endeavor in before them. However in my > grandfathers day, the class room wasn't no where near being as politically > driven as it is today, and that is why we are graduating far more > dysfunctional students than were graduated 100 years ago. We have far more > students then there were 100 years ago, but the fact remains American > students, on average are some of the poorest prepared compared to European, > and some Asian school systems. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:39 PM > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [VAROOTS] Education > > > > Thought so George. Most of our ancestors couldn't read and write, much > > less > > complete a test like that. So many today complain about our educational > > standards now, but the talent is definitely there, as evidenced by the > > technological wonders we now have today. Regards, Tim > > > > > > ============================== > > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > > > > > > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429 >

-----Original Message----- From: cristy [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:07 PM To: [email protected] Subject: {not a subscriber} Re: [VAROOTS] Education I am a public school teacher and I can tell you that there is not a free minute in the day for teachers or students. I see about 150 different students each day of the week. It seems like a never ending race from the first day of school to the last to fit everything in. I teach music. The students are always being tested it seems and teachers work many hours after the bell rings. From a music standpoint, I am teaching much more to my students than I learned at their age in school. They also must take music tests. I do not remember having to take music tests in school. christy