Thanks very much; that works, Wayne. I appreciate you. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne Dunn To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 1:36 PM Subject: Re: anyone? Paul, etc. Try the following link: (Sometimes VERY picky re upper/lower case characters (VA vs Va) http://webpages.charter.net/pdd50/VAchurchesBarb.jpg Wayne

Thanks; I do not know what is wrong. Please try again later. Thanks. Paul Paul Drake JD Genealogist & Author <www.DrakesBooks.com> 931-484-9129 ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [VAROOTS] Fw: anyone? The address you sent is not working. ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: 12/15/2005

Trying again; seems not to work. Thanks **** Does anyone have the bottom portion of this map of VA churches, please? http://webpages.charter.net/pdd50/VachurchesBarb.jpg Thanks much Paul Paul Drake JD Genealogist & Author <www.DrakesBooks.com> 931-484-9129 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: 12/15/2005

Does anyone have the bottom portion of this map of VA churches, please? http://webpages.charter.net/pdd50/Va churchesBarb.jpg Thanks much Paul Paul Drake JD Genealogist & Author <www.DrakesBooks.com> 931-484-9129

In 1870 Julia Shelato is living with William age 75and Elizabeth Adkins age 71. Elizabeth was born in Virginia. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: [VAROOTS] Shelato Surname >I have been trying to research the Shelato surname and am hitting the blank > wall. According to the 1880 census of Indiana it lists William F. Shelato > being born in Indiana, and his father being born in Virginia. Is there > anyway > to check the census records prior to 1880 in Virginia to see if there > were > any Shelato's listed. I'm trying to find out where this family > originated > from. > > Thanks you. > Linda (Shelato) Pudlo > > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >

Hey there Linda - one step at a time ... nice and slow and easy ... you first need to find out what William's father's name was ... and then are you check out all of the various variant spellings ? you can't really hop-scotch and end up in VA without researching the gap in between first :) your "blank wall" seems like a crash course headed for disappointment ... the 1850 census index at Ancestry.com has none with the exact spelling your are wanting :( using the soundex, up pops 346 possibilities ... here is a few I picked out .... shelto, shillett, shallott etc. :) lots to weed through ... this doesn't mean your spelling isn't anymore correct than these I have mentioned, just wanted to point out not everyone spelled it exactly the same from location to location, and document to document or year to year ... how does that saying go ? variety, the spice of life :) or is it a genealogist's night mare :/ depends on how you look at it, and then devise a plan to over come it :) do you have access to the census images at either Ancestry.com or Genealogy.com ? How about a LDS Family History Center near you ? many of their facilities have access to Ancestry.com, and they also have the census records on micro film ... if they don't have the particular film your interested in, they can order it for you from Salt Lake ... here is what I was able to locate so far :) 1850 - not able to locate anything yet ... can't figure out what spelling variant or how it might have been spelled phonetically :/ usually pretty good at figuring these out ... most days :) after nothing coming up in various searches ... I scanned through each sheet for the townships of Clinton, Eugene and Perrysville in Vermillion Co., IN [36, 28 and 19 pg's respectfully] and seen nothing that would look like any kind of a match :( was a bit hopeful of maybe finding William F. at home with his parents, then we might know what his father's name was ... the remaining twp's. to search, are Vermillion has 42 pgs, Highland has 37 pgs, Helt has 51 pgs ... wonder if Sheltaw might be another variant spelling to watch for also :) oh well at any rate here is the 1860-70 census records I was able to locate for you :) 1860 June 8th - Eugene Twp., Vermillion Co., IN pg. 11 [note index as an E on the end instead of an O, but reads as shown here, with the double L] 86-86 William F. Shellato 25 m Farmer [per. est. 500] Indiana Maria " 23 f Illinois William " 2 m Indiana James M. " 2 m do Henry Dutchmaid 23 m Laborer Germany 1870 July 19 - Eugene Twp., Vermillion Co., IN pg. 17 109-113 Shilatoe Wm. F. 37 m w Farmer 2000/500 Indiana Maria 34 f w Keeps House Illinois cannot write William 12 m w Indiana att'd. sch. James [A.?] 10 m w do att'd. sch. Alexander 8 m w do att'd. sch. Thomas M. 7 m w do att'd. sch. Mary A. 5 f w Illinois Dora M. 3 f w do Samuel 2 m w Indiana John 7/12 m w do born in Jan. Harper Cynthia 19 f w Domestic Servt. Illinois and you already appear to have the 1880 census, or at least know about it :) dwelling/family 70-70 on page 8 - Eugene Twp., Vermillion Co., IN William F. Shelato age 47 born IN father [VA ? looks like could be PA maybe] mother Canada son William missing presumed to be married ? daughter Mary is listed as Alice and three more children added :) Grace 7, Frank 5 and Maria F. age 3 ... that's it for now ... enjoy ! Ken - like a smile ... genealogical kindness causes a chain reaction :) > [Original Message] > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Date: 12/14/2005 1:05:41 PM > Subject: [VAROOTS] Shelato Surname > > I have been trying to research the Shelato surname and am hitting the blank > wall. According to the 1880 census of Indiana it lists William F. Shelato > being born in Indiana, and his father being born in Virginia. Is there anyway > to check the census records prior to 1880 in Virginia to see if there were > any Shelato's listed. I'm trying to find out where this family originated > from. > > Thanks you. > Linda (Shelato) Pudlo > > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

I have been trying to research the Shelato surname and am hitting the blank wall. According to the 1880 census of Indiana it lists William F. Shelato being born in Indiana, and his father being born in Virginia. Is there anyway to check the census records prior to 1880 in Virginia to see if there were any Shelato's listed. I'm trying to find out where this family originated from. Thanks you. Linda (Shelato) Pudlo

Correction/update to my own message. The GIMP is better than Adobe Photoshop when used on a linux or mac based computer. It is not as good on Windows as the Windows version lacks many features of the linux and mac versions due to the limits and bugs in Bill Gates Micromush Windoze. But again, it is free. Tim Kemp wrote: > I was happy to see in Beej's note that The GIMP is now available for > Windows. When I started using it you could only get it for > Linux/Unix, which is what I now use. > The GIMP is superior to Adobe Photoshop and it is FREE. I have both > and started with Photoshop, but now use only The GIMP. Many former > Adobe Photoshop users I know are now using The GIMP instead. It is > available for free download at http://www.gimp.org > > Like Photoshop, The GIMP is advanced and complicated. For the average > user it is overkill. For the serious user it is great.

Im a bit confused as to which version to download for my windows xp, the GTK + 2 v. 2.6.9 or GIMP v. 2.2.9, also as to where the help files are to download. http://gimp-win.sourceforge.net/stable.html#help cia, cristy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Kemp" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [VAROOTS] Re: Retouching/repair of old photos >I was happy to see in Beej's note that The GIMP is now available for >Windows. When I started using it you could only get it for Linux/Unix, >which is what I now use. > The GIMP is superior to Adobe Photoshop and it is FREE. I have both and > started with Photoshop, but now use only The GIMP. Many former Adobe > Photoshop users I know are now using The GIMP instead. It is available > for free download at http://www.gimp.org > > Like Photoshop, The GIMP is advanced and complicated. For the average > user it is overkill. For the serious user it is great. > > Bengjohnson wrote: > >>The software program, "Photoshop" will do all of the things that you >>want to do with your old pictures, however; that being said, the program >>is very complicated as well as expensive, but if you want to invest the >>time and the money it will serve you well. >> >>Ben Johnson >> > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

I was happy to see in Beej's note that The GIMP is now available for Windows. When I started using it you could only get it for Linux/Unix, which is what I now use. The GIMP is superior to Adobe Photoshop and it is FREE. I have both and started with Photoshop, but now use only The GIMP. Many former Adobe Photoshop users I know are now using The GIMP instead. It is available for free download at http://www.gimp.org Like Photoshop, The GIMP is advanced and complicated. For the average user it is overkill. For the serious user it is great. Bengjohnson wrote: >The software program, "Photoshop" will do all of the things that you >want to do with your old pictures, however; that being said, the program >is very complicated as well as expensive, but if you want to invest the >time and the money it will serve you well. > >Ben Johnson >

The software program, "Photoshop" will do all of the things that you want to do with your old pictures, however; that being said, the program is very complicated as well as expensive, but if you want to invest the time and the money it will serve you well. Ben Johnson -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 4:59 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [VAROOTS] Re: Retouching/repair of old photos This process that cristy is speaking of it called 'cloning' and it is a facinating process in photo/graphic work. The man at the genealogy seminar I mentioned before did this and it is a very impressive process as he walked us thru that part of the program. My son does this and is teaching me how to do it as there are graphics I wish to work with that this process is great at. Once I learn to use it in graphics I will then experiment with photos that I have around of my children yrs ago that have cracks in them. I also have some old photos of AZ taken at the turn of the century (1900) and some need repair in this fashion. Old photos of things that are no longer in the backcountry like an AZ covered bridge, a resturant on Apache Trail to Canyon Lake in the early yrs. of dirt road travel there. Well, did not aim to get off the subject. I have found the readings on "Fair Use" very interesting and of benifit to me. Thanks everyone that is participating in that discussion. Beej In a message dated 12/12/05 9:01:07 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: An online friend whom is a photographer did fix a few for me as you mentioned, he removed someone out of a photo and had to fill in background, looked great, removed a large discoloration on a person, and fixed some rips in a few photos on people. I have a pic or two with rips in the face that I cant fix and I tried using my photo LE program , old program to fix it , did not work so well. I cant always call on him so would like to get a better program and experiment myself. cia, cristy (http://siggiez.com/countdownz/ch/index2.cgi) ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/199 - Release Date: 12/13/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/199 - Release Date: 12/13/2005

This process that cristy is speaking of it called 'cloning' and it is a facinating process in photo/graphic work. The man at the genealogy seminar I mentioned before did this and it is a very impressive process as he walked us thru that part of the program. My son does this and is teaching me how to do it as there are graphics I wish to work with that this process is great at. Once I learn to use it in graphics I will then experiment with photos that I have around of my children yrs ago that have cracks in them. I also have some old photos of AZ taken at the turn of the century (1900) and some need repair in this fashion. Old photos of things that are no longer in the backcountry like an AZ covered bridge, a resturant on Apache Trail to Canyon Lake in the early yrs. of dirt road travel there. Well, did not aim to get off the subject. I have found the readings on "Fair Use" very interesting and of benifit to me. Thanks everyone that is participating in that discussion. Beej In a message dated 12/12/05 9:01:07 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: An online friend whom is a photographer did fix a few for me as you mentioned, he removed someone out of a photo and had to fill in background, looked great, removed a large discoloration on a person, and fixed some rips in a few photos on people. I have a pic or two with rips in the face that I cant fix and I tried using my photo LE program , old program to fix it , did not work so well. I cant always call on him so would like to get a better program and experiment myself. cia, cristy (http://siggiez.com/countdownz/ch/index2.cgi)

In a message dated 12/12/05 9:01:07 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Kemp To: cristy Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [VAROOTS] Fw: copyrights, "Fair Use", and genealogy You can pay that much for Adobe Photoshop, but I have it and don't like or use it, I use Corel's JASC Paintshop Pro when I am on my Windows computer (which I use less and less). Paintshop Pro sells for around $100. Actually a much better program, which is more powerful than either of those, is "the Gimp". the Gimp is available only for Linux, but like most all programs written for Linux, it is better than anything written for Windows and also like most all programs written for Linux, it is FREE!! FREE!! FREE!! With any of them you use it takes much practice and a bit of talent. It's not a case where the program does it for you. You must tell the program what to do along the way. Tim Some yrs. ago I was at a genealogy seminar and they had a person demonstrating Photo Suite 4 and it does all that one wishes to do with photos/graphics and such. As a promo the man demonstrating for the company gave those present a discount on purchasing the program that day which I did and not sorry at all. While reading my digest today called my son in and told him you all were discussing photo retouching/repairing and he said I should mention that the GIMP is made for window which his uses and that the URL for this is _www.gimp.org_ (http://www.gimp.org) . Now I was smart enough to put that URL into my browser and I got the GIMP opening page so I know that it works. By the by I am still into Access Genealogy's free census site and find more and more of my ancestors there. Spent 4 hrs here as of yesterday. Time is getting short on using this as the 15th is coming up fast. Beej (http://siggiez.com/countdownz/ch/index2.cgi)

You are absolutely correct, Bev ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [VAROOTS] Fw: copyrights, "Fair Use", and genealogy > Paul - > > It's my understanding that no actual legal action has to take place for a > copyright to be in effect, so any photograph taken is the property of the > photographer at the instant it's taken. Same with writings - they are > copyrighted to > the writer when words are put to paper. If this is true, Olin Mills > pictures > are in fact copyrighted to them. I've had several places refuse to make > copies of 'church' photos taken of my parents because they are copyrighted > to > those photographers. > > Now where did I go wrong in my understanding? > > Bev > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Paul, while the dialog concerning fair use, etc. has been interesting, I think it is time for others to go on to something else. If you have reference points, web sites, etc. and I am sure you do, if they can be posted so those who might want to look at them for themselves, it would be great. Some peoples computers are overloaded with the same subject coming across last few days, mine included. I have found the info helpful but I have also taken it upon myself to research it. I have run into problems with photos and got them resolved easily. Just takes a little time, a few clicks of the mouse and interest in the subject. Can we go on to something else? Thanks, Cheryl in Maryland

I had an old Olin Mills picture done years ago and it was actually in the newspaper back then as it was for a local beauty pagent which I guess means he did have copyright to it. When I tried to call and gave them the dates, they would not even look for it unless I spent a certain amount of money, (quite a bit) actually was not too polite to me ;(, I had the exact date they were in the paper and knew withing weeks or days when they were taken. He told mem they were filed by date but I guess up in his attic or something. I have not called back yet. cia, cristy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenny Hedgpeth" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 3:28 AM Subject: Re: [VAROOTS] Fw: copyrights, "Fair Use", and genealogy > well anyone who has had photographs done by Olin Mills had better read the > "fine print" on the contract ... although I personally have never > heard/read about them going after anyone ... it is written in a way that > they do hold the copyright on the "proofs" :( which is what a lot of > people I had known, ended up buying "the proofs", and when they tried to > get copies/reprints done else where, more cheaper [less expensively] ... > some to most were not too successful usually and or had trouble finding > someone welling to make copies/enlargements ... > > I had experienced trouble once even trying to get copies made of a photo > that was on an old postcard several years ago, even after "much searching" > to discover that the photographer of the original was dead, and his > company/business hadn't been in existence for years ... > > now with the advances in technology, making equipment, quality and prices > within the reach of many, most are likely to take matters into their own > hands ... and a good number of amateurs can do just as good as the > professionals :) not say it's right or wrong ... but the temptation is > there :) > > Ken - > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Paul Drake <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Date: 12/11/2005 1:21:44 PM >> Subject: Re: [VAROOTS] Fw: copyrights, "Fair Use", and genealogy >> >> I would bet a lot (were I a gambler) that Olin Mills has not copyrighted > any portrait of their customers for MANY years, if ever. When we did that > article, I checked the case reports and records of the copyright office > rather widely and found not a single such copyright of other than their > own > people. >> >> The copyright law does NOT provide a blanket protection for such as > future photos or even future writings. They have protection for their > logo > and nothing more; we can not gain protection for books we may one day > write. >> >> Paul Drake JD >> Genealogist & Author >> <www.DrakesBooks.com> >> 931-484-9129 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Kenny Hedgpeth >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:00 PM >> Subject: RE: [VAROOTS] Fw: copyrights, "Fair Use", and genealogy >> >> >> >> I have always wondered about those Olin Mills photos that numerious > people >> put on their personal web sites :) >> >> obviously IF I was to post one of those, [which I haven't yet] but I > sure >> as heck would crop the picture so as to not show the companies name ... >> which does indicate their copyright ... >> >> Ken - >> >> >> ============================== >> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > >

Maybe that explains why the church photographer that was hired wanted to charge so much for the proofs to my mom. But he would not let her order photos without buying the proofs she said, I dont understand that., She did get one photo, not sure what it cost. christy

I can't remember who it was that talked about how much money the photographers have to spend on equipment, training, ect. but it is true. this is how they make their living and for people to try to go around them really isn't fair. The exception, to me would be old pictures where the photographer is either out of business or dead. I don't think it should be a problem to copy these. I scan them into my picture program and then I print them out. I have given these to family members. The photographers around here charge from $800.00 up to do a wedding. My husband is an a photographer (not professional, but very good) and he takes pictures at weddings or any other occasion for people we know as a gift. they usually hire a photographer to make the brides picture and he will do all the candid shots. He also takes all the pictures for our granddaughter's school and gives them to everyone, no charge. He really enjoys doing it and it is a gift most people love to get. Thanks, Pat >I had an old Olin Mills picture done years ago and it was actually in the >newspaper back then as it was for a local beauty pagent which I guess means >he did have copyright to it. When I tried to call and gave them the dates, >they would not even look for it unless I spent a certain amount of money, >(quite a bit) actually was not too polite to me ;(, I had the exact date >they were in the paper and knew withing weeks or days when they were taken. > He told mem they were filed by date but I guess up in his attic or > something. I have not called back yet. > > cia, > cristy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kenny Hedgpeth" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 3:28 AM > Subject: Re: [VAROOTS] Fw: copyrights, "Fair Use", and genealogy > > >> well anyone who has had photographs done by Olin Mills had better read >> the >> "fine print" on the contract ... although I personally have never >> heard/read about them going after anyone ... it is written in a way that >> they do hold the copyright on the "proofs" :( which is what a lot of >> people I had known, ended up buying "the proofs", and when they tried to >> get copies/reprints done else where, more cheaper [less expensively] ... >> some to most were not too successful usually and or had trouble finding >> someone welling to make copies/enlargements ... >> >> I had experienced trouble once even trying to get copies made of a photo >> that was on an old postcard several years ago, even after "much >> searching" >> to discover that the photographer of the original was dead, and his >> company/business hadn't been in existence for years ... >> >> now with the advances in technology, making equipment, quality and prices >> within the reach of many, most are likely to take matters into their own >> hands ... and a good number of amateurs can do just as good as the >> professionals :) not say it's right or wrong ... but the temptation is >> there :) >> >> Ken - >> >> >>> [Original Message] >>> From: Paul Drake <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Date: 12/11/2005 1:21:44 PM >>> Subject: Re: [VAROOTS] Fw: copyrights, "Fair Use", and genealogy >>> >>> I would bet a lot (were I a gambler) that Olin Mills has not copyrighted >> any portrait of their customers for MANY years, if ever. When we did that >> article, I checked the case reports and records of the copyright office >> rather widely and found not a single such copyright of other than their >> own >> people. >>> >>> The copyright law does NOT provide a blanket protection for such as >> future photos or even future writings. They have protection for their >> logo >> and nothing more; we can not gain protection for books we may one day >> write. >>> >>> Paul Drake JD >>> Genealogist & Author >>> <www.DrakesBooks.com> >>> 931-484-9129 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Kenny Hedgpeth >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:00 PM >>> Subject: RE: [VAROOTS] Fw: copyrights, "Fair Use", and genealogy >>> >>> >>> >>> I have always wondered about those Olin Mills photos that numerious >> people >>> put on their personal web sites :) >>> >>> obviously IF I was to post one of those, [which I haven't yet] but I >> sure >>> as heck would crop the picture so as to not show the companies name >>> ... >>> which does indicate their copyright ... >>> >>> Ken - >>> >>> >>> ============================== >>> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >>> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >> >> >> >> ============================== >> View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find >> marriage announcements and more. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >> >> > > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

I don't think you are wrong, Bev, and I have no problem with the rights earned by such as Olin Mills at the moment they create a photo. I defer to you and to the other writers here who know of recent decisions and changes that have to do with the internet. Of this I am reasonably certain; "Fair Use" rules apply no matter who created what photos or writings or where those appeared, just as those rules have obtained for years. Problems are - as in my article - as to a "taking" how many words is too many, what uses are commercial as opposed to being critique and educational, and were the words taken at the core of the writing or of less significance. As to such substantiality, the 5 little words, "I did it my way" or "don't step on my blue suede shoes" in a new song surely hark to Sinatra or Elvis and would be fraught with copyright dangers, while many other and longer passages in those same old favorites remain forgotten or unrecognized and could be freely used. The watchwords are, as Langdon and others have said here, "Get permission or find other words or photos." Paul Drake JD Genealogist & Author <www.DrakesBooks.com> 931-484-9129 ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:14 PM Subject: [VAROOTS] Re:Copyrighting photos.. In a message dated 12/11/2005 6:26:16 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: X-Message: #1 Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:37:03 EST From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [VAROOTS] Fw: copyrights, "Fair Use", and genealogy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Paul - It's my understanding that no actual legal action has to take place for a copyright to be in effect, so any photograph taken is the property of the photographer at the instant it's taken. Same with writings - they are copyrighted to the writer when words are put to paper. If this is true, Olin Mills pictures are in fact copyrighted to them. I've had several places refuse to make copies of 'church' photos taken of my parents because they are copyrighted to those photographers. Now where did I go wrong in my understanding? Bev My brother is a photographer, a restorationist.. He always gives the negative to the person who engages (and pays for) his services.. He says he has never understood how a photographer can copyright someone's face which doesn't belong to the photographer... (He knows what the copyright law says) but he doesn't agree ... that is HIS personal opinion.. !!! Ellie ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/197 - Release Date: 12/9/2005

well anyone who has had photographs done by Olin Mills had better read the "fine print" on the contract ... although I personally have never heard/read about them going after anyone ... it is written in a way that they do hold the copyright on the "proofs" :( which is what a lot of people I had known, ended up buying "the proofs", and when they tried to get copies/reprints done else where, more cheaper [less expensively] ... some to most were not too successful usually and or had trouble finding someone welling to make copies/enlargements ... I had experienced trouble once even trying to get copies made of a photo that was on an old postcard several years ago, even after "much searching" to discover that the photographer of the original was dead, and his company/business hadn't been in existence for years ... now with the advances in technology, making equipment, quality and prices within the reach of many, most are likely to take matters into their own hands ... and a good number of amateurs can do just as good as the professionals :) not say it's right or wrong ... but the temptation is there :) Ken - > [Original Message] > From: Paul Drake <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Date: 12/11/2005 1:21:44 PM > Subject: Re: [VAROOTS] Fw: copyrights, "Fair Use", and genealogy > > I would bet a lot (were I a gambler) that Olin Mills has not copyrighted any portrait of their customers for MANY years, if ever. When we did that article, I checked the case reports and records of the copyright office rather widely and found not a single such copyright of other than their own people. > > The copyright law does NOT provide a blanket protection for such as future photos or even future writings. They have protection for their logo and nothing more; we can not gain protection for books we may one day write. > > Paul Drake JD > Genealogist & Author > <www.DrakesBooks.com> > 931-484-9129 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kenny Hedgpeth > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:00 PM > Subject: RE: [VAROOTS] Fw: copyrights, "Fair Use", and genealogy > > > > I have always wondered about those Olin Mills photos that numerious people > put on their personal web sites :) > > obviously IF I was to post one of those, [which I haven't yet] but I sure > as heck would crop the picture so as to not show the companies name ... > which does indicate their copyright ... > > Ken - > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx