Hi List, I'm still looking for any info on my ancestors in Northumberland County, VA, especially info on the family of Robert Jones of Fleet's Bay, on Richard Hawkins, on John Payne, Humphrey Pope and Nathaniel Pope, and James Samford/Sanford. I have some info on these people but anymore would be appreciated. I'm especially interested in any documentation which links Edward Jones who married Alicia Samford/Sanford Lunn in August 27, 1679 in Farnham Parish, Richmond County, VA to the Robert Jones family of Fleet's Bay, Wicomico, Northumberland Co., VA. According to Col. Brooke Payne in his classic "Paynes of Virginia", Edward Jones was Robert's son. He states: "Edward Jones's will is dated 1715 (1715) and names his dau. Alicia Payne. He was a descendant of Robert Jones of Fleet's Bay, Nb. Co." The only documentation that I have found so far that corroborates this is: In Beverly Fleet's Northumberland Records, p. 95: An Edward Jones is listed as constable of "little Wicomico" and he was a constable during the time period when Robert Jones was a Justice of the Peace for Northumberland Co. "Jones, Edw. appointed constable for little Wicco: 22 June 1669, 3.64" And the Robert Jones family lived in the Wicomico area in Northumberland Co., VA. So it seems that Constable Edward Jones was probably related to the Robert Jones family. And according to William & Mary College Quarterly, Vol. 23, No. 4 (April 1915) in the article "Mr. Robert Jones of Fleet's Bay, Northumberland County, and Some of His Descendants" by O.A. Keach, Thomas Samford/Sanford, Edward & Alicia Jones's nephew was living with Maurice Jones, son of Robert Jones of Fleet's Bay, in 1721, and Thomas Sanford names his father, Maurice Jones, his wife Judith Jones, and three of their children in his will written in 1721, and probated by Maurice Jones. So it seems most likely Thomas regarded Maurice Jones as family yet the only Sanford-Jones relationship that is documented is that of the marriage of Alicia Sanford with Edward Jones. So it seems like in order for Thomas to have regarded Maurice Jones as family there had to have been a family tie between Edward Jones & Maurice Jones. Any thoughts or help on this subject would be greatly appreciated, Chuck Owens --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing

Sondra wrote: I am new to this list and this is the only e-mail I have received and it is mine. Is this not a very busy list ?? Is no one doing research in Northumberland. I checked my database for SNOW and BARNES but don't have any of those folks. Yes, Sondra, I'm sorry to say this list has been VERY quiet. I have extensive information on THRIFT, BRYANT, LEWIS, HALE and associated collateral lines from both Northumberland and Richmond Counties in Virginia. I'm always looking for new information! I haven't travelled to Northern Neck since the spring but I do still receive copies of the Northern Neck News in the mail on a weekly basis. For the sake of the newcomers, it would be nice to hear from those folks still on the list actively searching for ancestors from NN. Happy Holidays, Sue Whittington

I am new to this list and this is the only e-mail I have received and it is mine. Is this not a very busy list ?? Is no one doing research in Northumberland. I will share what information I have, can't anyone help me with any information these Snow PLEASE --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: sondrafoley@juno.com To: VANORTHU-L@rootsweb.com Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:36:32 -0600 Subject: [VANORTHU-L] Barnes / Snow Message-ID: <20031209.193633.-201951.36.sondrafoley@juno.com> Hi, I am new to the list. I have a will for Henry Barnes of Wiccomoco Parish 1790. In his will he speaks of : Spencer Snow Elishas Snow John Snow Joseph Spencer Snow of North Carolina Samuel Snow of North Carolina Can anyone tell me of Henry Barnes relationship to these Snow's and their relationship to each other. Thank You, Sondra ==== VANORTHU Mailing List ==== Visit the Northunberland County VAGenWeb Page at; http://www.rootsweb.com/~vanorthu/ ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Hi, I am new to the list. I have a will for Henry Barnes of Wiccomoco Parish 1790. In his will he speaks of : Spencer Snow Elishas Snow John Snow Joseph Spencer Snow of North Carolina Samuel Snow of North Carolina Can anyone tell me of Henry Barnes relationship to these Snow's and their relationship to each other. Thank You, Sondra

I'm searching both of these counties for RIDDLES and RAYS during the years 1650-1705. Both men ,John Riddle and Wm. Ray, are being transported into Lancaster Co. around 1650 and they seem to dissapear after that. The only Riddle I find is an Andrew in court in 1688 and a Wm. Ray in 1682. Hugh

Hi! The only Cralle family I know is from Callao/Warsaw area, and his name was Lewis B. Cralle, now deceased. His family is some where connected to my Headley/Clark family of NOrth'd. Co. Sorry, but interesting reading. Sincerely, Indie Clark Shepp ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Gough <mjgough@cablelynx.com> To: <VANORTHU-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 11:59 PM Subject: [VANORTHU-L] Looking for Thomas Cralle b: abt 1750 > Dear List: > > I am looking for a Thomas Cralle from VA. Thomas Cralle is a > descendant of Capt John Cralle of Northumberland, VA. > > Descendants of Thomas Cralle > > 1 Thomas Cralle > ....... 2 Kenner Cralle b: 1778 in Virginia d: Aft. 1855 > ........... +Delilah Donovan b: Aft. 1778 in Maryland d: > Bef. 1847 in Posey Co. IN > ....... *2nd Wife of Kenner Cralle: > ........... +Margaret Musgrove b: Abt. 1778 in Pennsylvania > > However, we are missing generation or two between Capt John and Thomas: > > Descendants of John Cralle > > 1 John Cralle b: Abt. 1640 d: 1728 > . +Anna Mathews > ....... 2 John Cralle b: Abt. 1695 d: Abt. 1770 > ........... +[1] Hannah Kenner b: August 30, 1695 > ................. 3 Mary Cralle > ................. 3 John Cralle, Jr. > ................. 3 Kenner Cralle > ....... 2 Thomas Cralle b: Abt. 1697 d: 1726 > ........... +[1] Hannah Kenner b: August 30, 1695 > ................. 3 John Cralle b: September 18, 1724 > ..................... +Judith Ball > ................. *2nd Wife of John Cralle: > ..................... +Spelman Garner > ................. 3 Thomas Cralle b: Abt. 1726 > ..................... +Ann __________ > > It is even more confusing since about one third of Cralle Males are name > Thomas. We believe that he was probably from VA but may have moved to > MD, since Kenner married Delilah Donovan in Mason County, Kentucky on > December. 22, 1802. The Cralles, Donovans and Parkers are found > together in MasonCo and the Donovans and Parkers are believed to be from > MD. Can anyone on the list shine some light on Ole Thomas? > > Thanks, > > Mike Gough > > > -- > Michael J. Gough > mjgough@cablelynx.com > > > > ==== VANORTHU Mailing List ==== > Visit the Northunberland County VAGenWeb Page at; > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vanorthu/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Dear List: I am looking for a Thomas Cralle from VA. Thomas Cralle is a descendant of Capt John Cralle of Northumberland, VA. Descendants of Thomas Cralle 1 Thomas Cralle ....... 2 Kenner Cralle b: 1778 in Virginia d: Aft. 1855 ........... +Delilah Donovan b: Aft. 1778 in Maryland d: Bef. 1847 in Posey Co. IN ....... *2nd Wife of Kenner Cralle: ........... +Margaret Musgrove b: Abt. 1778 in Pennsylvania However, we are missing generation or two between Capt John and Thomas: Descendants of John Cralle 1 John Cralle b: Abt. 1640 d: 1728 . +Anna Mathews ....... 2 John Cralle b: Abt. 1695 d: Abt. 1770 ........... +[1] Hannah Kenner b: August 30, 1695 ................. 3 Mary Cralle ................. 3 John Cralle, Jr. ................. 3 Kenner Cralle ....... 2 Thomas Cralle b: Abt. 1697 d: 1726 ........... +[1] Hannah Kenner b: August 30, 1695 ................. 3 John Cralle b: September 18, 1724 ..................... +Judith Ball ................. *2nd Wife of John Cralle: ..................... +Spelman Garner ................. 3 Thomas Cralle b: Abt. 1726 ..................... +Ann __________ It is even more confusing since about one third of Cralle Males are name Thomas. We believe that he was probably from VA but may have moved to MD, since Kenner married Delilah Donovan in Mason County, Kentucky on December. 22, 1802. The Cralles, Donovans and Parkers are found together in MasonCo and the Donovans and Parkers are believed to be from MD. Can anyone on the list shine some light on Ole Thomas? Thanks, Mike Gough -- Michael J. Gough mjgough@cablelynx.com

Hi Everybody, I'm looking for any info on Robert Jones, Sr. of Fleet's Bay, Northumberland, VA. Here's what I have so far: Robert Jones, Sr. of Fleet's Bay, Northumberland, VA b. about 1630 is reported to have married Martha Ironmonger also born about 1630. Genealogist Paul C. Reid in an article in American Genealogist, October 1998, pp. 294-311 reports that Robert Jones's wife was Martha Ironmonger. I'm now looking for any info on this family. I know that four sons are reported in Robert's will which was probated March 1, 1675/1676. They are named as follows: William, Samuel, Robert, Jr., and Maurice. There seems to be mention of other sons and daughters but only four sons were specifically named. Colonel Brooke Payne wrote in his book "Paynes of Virginia" that Edward Jones b. about 1660, married to Alicia Sanford Jones in 1679 in Richmond County, was a descendant of Robert Jones of Fleet's Bay. Edward Jones died and his will was probated in 1715 in Richmond County. I haven't found any documentation to indicate he was Robert's son except for the fact that in 1721, Edward & Alicia's nephew Thomas Sanford was staying with Maurice Jones. Any info or a reference to documentation would be appreciated. Thanks, Chuck Owens --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears

A Carter surname DNA genealogy project has been started at www.familytreedna.com. We are accepting participants from all Carter lines. If you have a male Carter that is willing to be tested for markers on his Y chromosome please consider joining our group at: http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.asp?code=C98318&special=True. Vickie Carter Tallent www.carter-cousins.org

Indie, I haven't seen you post for quite awhile. It's nice to hear that Sonny Ash is still in the area. I can't count the times he help us out. I can remember calling him in the middle of the night from Baltimore to help when my mother died. Nice to hear from you again. Hope all's well. Butch Hughes Annapolis, MD *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 9/10/2003 at 10:27 PM Indie & Mike Shepp wrote: >Have you tried through the Jones-Ash Funeral Home. Sonny Ash, retired, >but >still in area, knows just about every cemetery or location of a burial >ground anywhere in that area. I am sure you can get help through the >funeral home and ask for him, or his tele. # at home. He's a really great >guy and lots of help to anyone asking. > Good luck, Indie Shepp > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rita Eder" <ederfamily@hotmail.com> >To: <VANORTHU-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 10:22 PM >Subject: [VANORTHU-L] Looking for info. on Vanlandingham decendants EVANS >AND BROWN > > >> >> My grandmother was Sophronia Brown Evans, daughter of Benedict Hartley >Brown >> and Sarah Jane Vanlandingham. She lived in Reedville, VA. Four of her >> children were buried in a family plot there sometime between 1910 and >1922. >> I wonder if anyone would have any knowledge of it? It was near a body of >> water, a river, I think, and the family who owned the property about 30 >> years ago also owned a popular restaurant in the area. The children were >> named Jefferies Evans, Herschal Evans, Madrid Evans, and another daughter >> whose name I do not know. I have not seen it since I was a child and >> everyone who would know about it has passed on. It was a very small, poor >> graveyard but I would like to locate it and ensure that the graves are >taken >> care of . Thanks for any help. Also if anyone has any info. on Benedict >> Hartley Brown I would appreciate it. >> >> Rita >> Eldersburg, MD >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Use custom emotions -- try MSN Messenger 6.0! >> http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_emoticon >> >> >> ============================== >> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, >go to: >> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >> > > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, >go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Have you tried through the Jones-Ash Funeral Home. Sonny Ash, retired, but still in area, knows just about every cemetery or location of a burial ground anywhere in that area. I am sure you can get help through the funeral home and ask for him, or his tele. # at home. He's a really great guy and lots of help to anyone asking. Good luck, Indie Shepp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rita Eder" <ederfamily@hotmail.com> To: <VANORTHU-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 10:22 PM Subject: [VANORTHU-L] Looking for info. on Vanlandingham decendants EVANS AND BROWN > > My grandmother was Sophronia Brown Evans, daughter of Benedict Hartley Brown > and Sarah Jane Vanlandingham. She lived in Reedville, VA. Four of her > children were buried in a family plot there sometime between 1910 and 1922. > I wonder if anyone would have any knowledge of it? It was near a body of > water, a river, I think, and the family who owned the property about 30 > years ago also owned a popular restaurant in the area. The children were > named Jefferies Evans, Herschal Evans, Madrid Evans, and another daughter > whose name I do not know. I have not seen it since I was a child and > everyone who would know about it has passed on. It was a very small, poor > graveyard but I would like to locate it and ensure that the graves are taken > care of . Thanks for any help. Also if anyone has any info. on Benedict > Hartley Brown I would appreciate it. > > Rita > Eldersburg, MD > > _________________________________________________________________ > Use custom emotions -- try MSN Messenger 6.0! > http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_emoticon > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

My grandmother was Sophronia Brown Evans, daughter of Benedict Hartley Brown and Sarah Jane Vanlandingham. She lived in Reedville, VA. Four of her children were buried in a family plot there sometime between 1910 and 1922. I wonder if anyone would have any knowledge of it? It was near a body of water, a river, I think, and the family who owned the property about 30 years ago also owned a popular restaurant in the area. The children were named Jefferies Evans, Herschal Evans, Madrid Evans, and another daughter whose name I do not know. I have not seen it since I was a child and everyone who would know about it has passed on. It was a very small, poor graveyard but I would like to locate it and ensure that the graves are taken care of . Thanks for any help. Also if anyone has any info. on Benedict Hartley Brown I would appreciate it. Rita Eldersburg, MD _________________________________________________________________ Use custom emotions -- try MSN Messenger 6.0! http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_emoticon

Wayne, don't I know you? I'm Indie Clark, graduated HHS 1950. What's your last name? This guy is writing a book, I think. I posted some info yesterday to another guy, Jeff Waldo re the Cheriton area in Va. where my ancestors on my mother's side were from. Did you see it? Sincerely, Indie ----- Original Message ----- From: "WL" <ooto@rivnet.net> To: <VANORTHU-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [VANORTHU-L] August 23, 1933 hurricane > I may have some photos of a steamboat pier that was torn up by that > hurricane. What is this info. for. > > Wayne > Callao, Va. > > Frank Green wrote: > > >I am hoping that you can help me. I am looking for any stories, memories or anecdotes about the August 23, 1933 hurricane. > > thanks > > Frank Green > > Poquoson VA > > > > > >============================== > >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

I may have some photos of a steamboat pier that was torn up by that hurricane. What is this info. for. Wayne Callao, Va. Frank Green wrote: >I am hoping that you can help me. I am looking for any stories, memories or anecdotes about the August 23, 1933 hurricane. > thanks > Frank Green > Poquoson VA > > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > >

I am hoping that you can help me. I am looking for any stories, memories or anecdotes about the August 23, 1933 hurricane. thanks Frank Green Poquoson VA

Hello all, You may, or may not, be aware that there's a POE Surname DNA Project was recently started... and it is open to any spelling, any ethnicity. My husband's POE, was originally PFAU, and migrated from MD to OH, and then... points westward. This is of the GERMAN-SWISS lineage. George Jacob PFAU, immigrated to the American Colonies... circa 1700. Unfortunately we're not able to help with this, due to having been .........'daughtered out', but maybe you know of someone? Here's hoping you know of someone that carries any of the following spellings: PFAU, PO, POE, and POWELL Good luck to all... in the famly research you're diggin' up, Lisa Grimes ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ POE DNA UPDATE FOLLOWS ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SEND ALL COMMENTS and REPLIES TO ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~wpoe@mindspring.com [mailto:wpoe@mindspring.com] ~~~~~~~~~~~ This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Poe Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/VYABAEB/972.3 Message Board Post: http://www.mindspring.com/~poefamily4/DNA/ So far two distinct branches of the Poe family are indicated by DNA testing. 1. Poe family that almost certainly derives from the Poe family that settled Essex County, Virginia by 1704. This group appears to trace their ancestry to Samuel Poe (d. 1725). The group includes Poe families known to descend from Simon Poe, Sr (d. 1993 Chatham County, North Carolina). Also included is the Poe family that settled Franklin County, Kentucky. The Poe family that settled Marshall County, Tennessee is also part of this group. 2. Poe family that arrived in Baltimore, Maryland around 1820 and is believed to have come from England. One member of this group is represented so far. wpoe@mindspring.com [mailto:wpoe@mindspring.com] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi all, I'm new to this list and am researching the KIEVEs and KESTERSONs of Northumberland Co. prior to 1800. Also any NELSONs who may be in the area prior to 1800. Through correspondence with Christine Walters and through my sister's research, I have a little on the KESTERSONs, but it's indeed a tenuous thread that might link the scant KIEVE evidence from Hancock Co., GA back to Northumberland. Anything anyone might have on the Kieve surname prior to 1800 will certainly be of help and greatly appreciated. Two females are the focus of my KEIVE research... Mary and possibly a daughter Eleanor. Thanks for your time, Lee Nelson, Covington GA _______________________________________________ Eliminate pop-ups before they appear! Visit www.PopSwatter.com now - It's FREE.

Find nicknames and variants to common boys' and girls' names : http://www.tngenweb.org/franklin/frannick.htm very interesting Jim F. Ledford Baton Rouge, La.

Question: Would it be proper to ask how many of that surname are listed in those books , so that you can get an idea if there are any at all.? If you do not have the names of the different family members with that surname, how would you "fish" for a clue or "trail" to further your search? Any ideas or suggestions are welcome mema On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:47:39 -0400 "Sandra Ferguson" <ferg@ntelos.net> wrote: >Actually, asking people to give ALL of any specific surname >is an >infringement of the copyright laws...this is called a >blanket lookup and >doesn't fall under fair usage . What is permitted is to ask >if 2 or 3 >specific people are included in the index >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Pam Sulzer" <psulzer47@yahoo.com> >To: <VANORTHU-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:26 PM >Subject: [VANORTHU-L] N'umberld Order Bks. 1 & 2 ? > > >> Would someone mind doing a lookup for me please if they >>have copies of >"Northumberland Co., VA Court Order Book 1699-1713" Part 1 >and/or Part 2 ? >Part 1 was published in 1999 and Part 2 was published in >2001. >> I am looking for several members of the TURNER family >>and would >appreciate very much knowing which ones are listed in the >index of each >book. >> >> Thanks for any help, >> Pam in Baton Rouge >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design >>software >> >> >> ============================== >> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online >>genealogy records, >go to: >> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >> >> > > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online >genealogy records, go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > <TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60"><TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60"><TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60"><TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60"><TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60"><TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60"><TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60"><TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60"><TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60"><TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60"><TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60"><TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60"><TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60"><TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60"><TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60">

We've always been told that doing blanket lookups violated fair usage, and this has been around rootsweb for a long time - years - Part of fair usage concerns the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. Better to err on the side of the compiler/author, wouldn't you think? We all need individuals to be willing to take their time and place records into some form that will be available to us all.....where would we, as genealogists, be without them?...but when people feel it is okay to use large portions of the information they compiled, simply because they can, then we're all in trouble. So, perhaps it's actually a moral problem, too..is it fair to undermined these compilers simply because we can? We all need them. I realize that the names would be the same, whether taken from the original records, or from what someone published, but the difference is WHERE you are giving the info from.....if the original records, then no problem, but that's not the same as taking them from a compilation someone spent a great deal of time and effort on. From: "Mark Rowden" <mrowden@comcast.net> To: "'Sandra Ferguson'" <ferg@ntelos.net>; <VANORTHU-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:01 AM Subject: RE: [VANORTHU-L] N'umberld Order Bks. 1 & 2 ? Please believe me when I say that I'm not trying to be rude here. It just sparked by curiosity because I'm a trademark attorney and I've never heard of that before -- and I've never really thought about it. My profession and my hobbies have intersected. Do you know where you got this from? It seems to me that it is not be a copyright violation to ask for all of a surname. The asker is not violated anything here because the request can never expose copyrighted materials. However, if the replier just subscribed the entire section -- word for word, page for page -- that might be a copyright violation. But, the author cannot have copyright protection on facts, especially public and historical ones. So, if the replier just related the facts (as I did previously) that does not violate the copyright laws. Public, historical facts can be disseminated freely. I believe one example in law school (I also teach - but not copyright, I teach contracts) is that you can take a recipe out of a recipe book and forward it along. You can't, however, copy the form of the book, ie. several pages of recipes. I would think that this is the same thing. Also, a friend of mine was an attorney on a recent case where a city in Texas got third party association to write a model code (or a section of it). The city then enacted the model code, word for word. The author declared that the code was protected under copyright laws. Defendant in that case had a website with public information. He took the code and published it on his website - word for word, page by page. Author sued. The appellate court said that it was not a violation of copyright to put the code on the website since the words were public facts when enacted by the city's lawmakers. The US Supreme Court denied to hear the case so the website owner won. Again, I see copying public records as the same thing. If the author took the records, word for word, from the public records -- they can not have copyright protection on those words, and -- it they copy the entire public record, they cannot claim a copyright protection on the order. However, if they take the public record and reword it, they now can claim copyright protection on those words -- but not the facts. So, do you know where you got this from? I'd like to investigate it further - to satisfy my own curiosity. Thanks,