Pete, could this be our Jan Dirksz? 1686 04 Aug; Jan Dirckxen, jm van N. Yorke; Catalina Cloppers, jd van N. Yorke, beyde woonende alhier 1692 18 Mar; John Stephenszen, jm van Douveren; Catalina Cloppers, wid Jan Dircxen, beyde woonende alhier. eodem Google won't translate "beyde woonende alhier". I think it means "resides here", but not sure. On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 5:06 AM, <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: > Mistranslation. "Geboorteplaats bruid" Geboorte(n) means birth. Plaats is > place. Bruid is obviously bride. "Bride's birth place". > > Don't read too much into "birth". Not only did they not always give their > actual birth place, but who knows what the original record states. > "Geboorteplaats" is probably a word that BHIC uses, and may not be the same > used on the actual original record. > > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 4:33 AM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com> > wrote: >> >> What does hometown wedding: Rotterdam mean?  I know Sara is from Rotterdam >> but what does home hometown wedding indicate?   Could they have been >> married >> in Rotterdam?  Did anyone renew their vows once arriving in New Amsterdam >> to >> be legally married in both places? >> >> Susan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 11:57 PM >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen (Sara Teunis, Pieter Teunisz, Jan >> Dircksen, Jan Dircksz from Bremen) >> >> Sorry, translation of marriage record: >> Source Type: Wedding Book >> Congregation: Collegiate Church of New York >> Proclamation: 06/28/1664 >> Belief: NDG >> Hometown: New Amsterdam-New York >> Groom: January Dircksz >> Hometown groom: Arnhem >> Bride: Sara Theunisz >> Hometown wedding: Rotterdam >> Young Daughter bride: J >> Previous partner groom: >> Previous partner bride >> Further information: The groom is a soldier >> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 11:55 PM, <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Jan Dirksz Van Arnhem means son of Dirk from Arnhem. In turn, Dirk would >> > have a patroym (what we today use as last name) would be the same as his >> > father's first name. Particulairly confusing, since they tended to use >> > the >> > same names generation after generation, creating an effect of >> flip-flopping >> > names. It's possible (completely speculative), but Dirk's father could >> have >> > been Jan, and thus be Dirk Jansz, etc. >> > >> > They were married Jun 28 1664: >> > Soort bron: Trouwboek >> > Kerkgemeente: Collegiate Church of New York >> > Proclamatie: 28-06-1664 >> > Gezindte: NDG >> > Plaats: Nieuw Amsterdam-New York >> > Bruidegom: Jan Dirckszen >> > Geboorteplaats bruidegom: Arnhem >> > Bruid: Sara Theuniszen >> > Geboorteplaats bruid: Rotterdam >> > Jongedochter bruid: J >> > Vorige partner bruidegom: >> > Vorige partner bruid: >> > Nadere informatie: De bruidegom is soldaat >> > >> > De Trouw with Sara Theunis aboard arrived in Apr 1664. As Pete and I >> > have >> > argued over, despite being in basic agreement, he would have had to have >> > been aboard the same ship for her to concieve so quickly after (or >> > during) >> > the voyage. To assume otherwise would be to assume Dirkjte is not his >> > daughter, but moreover is needless speculation (as he and I have been >> > speculating over). >> >   On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Susan Claggett < >> > claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Nevermind on my question below because I just realized the ages won't >> work >> >> if our Jan Dircksen was born around 1640.  He could not have had 3 >> >> children >> >> 15, 8 and 10 months in 1659.  So Jan Dircksen from Alckmaer is >> >> obviously >> a >> >> different person. >> >> >> >> But our Jan Dircksen who married Sara Teunis could be at least age wise >> >> the >> >> son of Jan Dircksen of Bremen . >> >> >> >> My previous question: >> >> Could our Jan Dircksen be the son of Jan Dircksz from Bremen?  Did our >> Jan >> >> Dircksen arrive aboard the De Trouw 1659 with his wife and 3 children? >> >>  Did >> >> his first wife pass away and Jan Dircksen than became engaged to Sara >> >> Teunis >> >> and he sent for her and she arrived in 1664 on the De Trouw??? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> DE TROUW (THE FAITH) 1659 >> >> >> >> 57       Jan Dircksen (Dircxsen), from Alckmaer >> >> 58       Mrs. Dircksen (wife) >> >> 59 - 61  three children Dircksen, ages 3/4, 8 and 15 years >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>  ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Nope. That's, as I recall, the son of Jan Dircks Meyer. Interestingly, Meyer's wife, Tryntie Gravenraedt, was the sole witness at the baptism of Jan Dirck's first child. Meyer's home was right next to Fort Amsterdam and Trytnie. I can find no record of it but my speculation is that Meyers rented a room to Sara Theunis. I think I also found mention that Tryntie was an occasional midwife. Other than those things there's no apparent connection between the Meyers and the Van Arnhems. They all seem to fit the picture of a new soldier and his pregnant wife who have no connections to the community. --pete ----- Original Message ----- From: <jroguetech@gmail.com> To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 6:27 AM Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen and Sara Teunis Pete, could this be our Jan Dirksz? 1686 04 Aug; Jan Dirckxen, jm van N. Yorke; Catalina Cloppers, jd van N. Yorke, beyde woonende alhier 1692 18 Mar; John Stephenszen, jm van Douveren; Catalina Cloppers, wid Jan Dircxen, beyde woonende alhier. eodem Google won't translate "beyde woonende alhier". I think it means "resides here", but not sure. On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 5:06 AM, <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: > Mistranslation. "Geboorteplaats bruid" Geboorte(n) means birth. Plaats is > place. Bruid is obviously bride. "Bride's birth place". > > Don't read too much into "birth". Not only did they not always give their > actual birth place, but who knows what the original record states. > "Geboorteplaats" is probably a word that BHIC uses, and may not be the > same > used on the actual original record. > > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 4:33 AM, Susan Claggett > <claimtofame@claggett6.com> > wrote: >> >> What does hometown wedding: Rotterdam mean? I know Sara is from Rotterdam >> but what does home hometown wedding indicate? Could they have been >> married >> in Rotterdam? Did anyone renew their vows once arriving in New Amsterdam >> to >> be legally married in both places? >> >> Susan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 11:57 PM >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen (Sara Teunis, Pieter Teunisz, Jan >> Dircksen, Jan Dircksz from Bremen) >> >> Sorry, translation of marriage record: >> Source Type: Wedding Book >> Congregation: Collegiate Church of New York >> Proclamation: 06/28/1664 >> Belief: NDG >> Hometown: New Amsterdam-New York >> Groom: January Dircksz >> Hometown groom: Arnhem >> Bride: Sara Theunisz >> Hometown wedding: Rotterdam >> Young Daughter bride: J >> Previous partner groom: >> Previous partner bride >> Further information: The groom is a soldier >> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 11:55 PM, <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Jan Dirksz Van Arnhem means son of Dirk from Arnhem. In turn, Dirk >> > would >> > have a patroym (what we today use as last name) would be the same as >> > his >> > father's first name. Particulairly confusing, since they tended to use >> > the >> > same names generation after generation, creating an effect of >> flip-flopping >> > names. It's possible (completely speculative), but Dirk's father could >> have >> > been Jan, and thus be Dirk Jansz, etc. >> > >> > They were married Jun 28 1664: >> > Soort bron: Trouwboek >> > Kerkgemeente: Collegiate Church of New York >> > Proclamatie: 28-06-1664 >> > Gezindte: NDG >> > Plaats: Nieuw Amsterdam-New York >> > Bruidegom: Jan Dirckszen >> > Geboorteplaats bruidegom: Arnhem >> > Bruid: Sara Theuniszen >> > Geboorteplaats bruid: Rotterdam >> > Jongedochter bruid: J >> > Vorige partner bruidegom: >> > Vorige partner bruid: >> > Nadere informatie: De bruidegom is soldaat >> > >> > De Trouw with Sara Theunis aboard arrived in Apr 1664. As Pete and I >> > have >> > argued over, despite being in basic agreement, he would have had to >> > have >> > been aboard the same ship for her to concieve so quickly after (or >> > during) >> > the voyage. To assume otherwise would be to assume Dirkjte is not his >> > daughter, but moreover is needless speculation (as he and I have been >> > speculating over). >> > On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Susan Claggett < >> > claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Nevermind on my question below because I just realized the ages won't >> work >> >> if our Jan Dircksen was born around 1640. He could not have had 3 >> >> children >> >> 15, 8 and 10 months in 1659. So Jan Dircksen from Alckmaer is >> >> obviously >> a >> >> different person. >> >> >> >> But our Jan Dircksen who married Sara Teunis could be at least age >> >> wise >> >> the >> >> son of Jan Dircksen of Bremen . >> >> >> >> My previous question: >> >> Could our Jan Dircksen be the son of Jan Dircksz from Bremen? Did our >> Jan >> >> Dircksen arrive aboard the De Trouw 1659 with his wife and 3 children? >> >> Did >> >> his first wife pass away and Jan Dircksen than became engaged to Sara >> >> Teunis >> >> and he sent for her and she arrived in 1664 on the De Trouw??? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> DE TROUW (THE FAITH) 1659 >> >> >> >> 57 Jan Dircksen (Dircxsen), from Alckmaer >> >> 58 Mrs. Dircksen (wife) >> >> 59 - 61 three children Dircksen, ages 3/4, 8 and 15 years >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message