Hi, Just like Pete warns us all the time, I like to warn you that if you use internet information from bhic.nl you've got to check with the original texts! More than once I found mistakes in these internet records. By the way, your internet discussion is interesting, but, as I wrote you before, it is possible that Jan Dircks van Arnhem van a soldier with the patronym Dircks and the sir-name 'van Arnhem'. This kind of combination 'patrony-sire name' you'll find hundreds/thousands of times in this period in the Netherlands. Until 1810 when Napoleon obliged sire names which didn't change any more, all kinds of name-switching is found. In small villages people mostly used patronyms (their was no need for sire names), but in city's sir-names were commen (with patronyms too!). So I'm still convinced that Jan Dircks had the sir-name 'van Arnhem' otherwise his sir-name was more likely to become Dirksen. Several months ago we had some discussions on this. Somehow not al my posts came through, so today I'll try it again. Underneath my reaction on the post of 20-7-2010 Volume 5, issue 91: Hi Arlene, Susan and all the others, Thanks Arlene for your balanced responce on "trustworthy information". I am aware that I didn't check the US-data, like I do with the Dutch-branches shared on my site. But for the contacts I have here in the Netherlands it is espacially very interesting that the US-branch made a lot of name changes during the years. And several people I know are very interested in who the Dirk Jansz and his wife Magdaleentje Jansen were, and to which Dutch-branch they belong. So I also hoped that some of you in the US would have additional information. As you can see on my website there are a lot of "Van Arnhem"-branches in the Netherlands which I (and other in this country) couldn't connect up to this moment. I have contact with "living" people of several branches, but not with all (some branches didn't continue up to 2010). And with putting the data on internet I hope to connect with more "Van Arnhems" in our country and worldwide. In several way's this is (as far as I know) the only "Van Arnhem" website working on all known famely-branches (in the Netherlands, for that is my primary interest). The site starts with a royal Van Arnhem tree (see Ferwerda and Herckenrode), and the others are named by the city where the oldest for-father came from (Angerlo, Den Bosch, Didam etc. are branches) I am a descendant of the Maurik-branch. Of course, like you in the States, I hope to find connections and putting braches together. Concerning the US-branch, I have found data about Dirk Jansz and his wife Magdaleentje Jansen in the city Arnhem. But this information is (badly) not digitalized or indexed, and research takes a lot of time. (I don't know how genealogy is organized in archives in the US, but here in the Netherlands a lot of info is indexed by surname and sometimes even digitallized what is much quicker and easier to do the research, but unfortunatly a lot of information is not indexed or digitallized, so you have to work through the original birth-marry-burrying-books page by page hoping to find a person of interest. In response to your idea Arlene, and your question Susan:/ Pim would you be able to or be willing to or find a male ancestor to take a DNA test so we can all prove our relations? Are you aware of the Van Norman DNA program that Stephen Wood is heading up at Family Tree DNA under the project name of Van Norman? Charlie Van Norman and my brother matched perfectly at 32 markers and we are believed to be from the old NY line which is the same tail male line as your family Pim.// This could be our big breakthrough!!!/ Some time ago I read of the DNA program of Stephan Wood, but to be honest, I don't know what genealogy DNA programs there are in the Netherlands. There has been a project some years ago, but I don't know if it's still running. And aren't there different DNA-tests with different marker-sets? I can say that I do not have any knowledge of a descendant of Dirk Jansz other than mentioned on my website. So I don't know if a member of the Dutch famely line of Dirk Jansz is alive. Due to the problem of the archives mentioned above, (and a lack of time) I didn't work out or do research on the Dutch descendants of Dirk Jansz. So for this moment I cannot contact with a "proven" descendant of Dirk Jansz. What I can do is find some information on how DNA-programs are running here and join in myself, but, as said before, I don't think I am in the same famely-line. Do you have any suggestions on this? Kind regards, Pim van Arnhem Op 10-10-2010 12:06, vannorman-request@rootsweb.com schreef: > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Dirk Jansz (jroguetech@gmail.com) > 2. Re: Jan Dircksen (Sara Teunis, Pieter Teunisz, Jan Dircksen, > Jan Dircksz from Bremen) (jroguetech@gmail.com) > 3. Re: Jan Dircksen and Sara Teunis (Susan Claggett) > 4. Re: Jan Dircksen and Sara Teunis (jroguetech@gmail.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 03:56:22 -0500 > From: jroguetech@gmail.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Dirk Jansz > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <AANLkTikPwgcqm8TH99SPPdw54232PwVD2BDt-siDgdyY@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Sure... > > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 3:51 AM, Susan Claggett > <claimtofame@claggett6.com>wrote: > >> That's a good idea. Would you be willing to contact her John? >> >> Susan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 2:42 AM >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Dirk Jansz >> >> No sources and not updated since 2004. Perhaps someone should contact >> Laurie >> Garrison...? LG7485@aol.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 04:14:04 -0500 > From: jroguetech@gmail.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen (Sara Teunis, Pieter Teunisz, > Jan Dircksen, Jan Dircksz from Bremen) > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <AANLkTinebdXP9=tWzjb6epPF9hYgMiL7kB3Wk1VjPLG+@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Doesn't appear to be a gap in the dates; probably a blank page or something. > These records were a simple ledger style, one line after the next with no > filler. I don't think the years were actually recorded, but were in volumns. > Any error in the recording of the year would be immediately apparant to the > original transcriber(s). > > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 3:49 AM, Susan Claggett > <claimtofame@claggett6.com>wrote: > >> John, >> >> You make a lot of really good points. I will try to get back on track. >> Okay maybe he was on the same boat with her as a paid soldier. I did not >> notice on the wedding record that it said she was a young woman (not >> previously married) until you pointed it out. >> >> I wonder if the year is wrong on the baptismal record and should be Dec 31, >> 1665? Where is page 77? It goes from 76 to 78 (See below). There are >> several years before their next child Magdalena in 1669. I don't know, >> LOL. >> Thanks again! >> >> Susan >> >> 1664 Dec 14; Johan, Rachel Dircks; Christina; Jacques Casjou, Christina >> 1664 Dec 21; Pieter Suncam, Debora Jans; Agnietie; Claes Thyssen, Barentje >> Jans >> - page 76 >> 1664 Dec 31; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt >> 1664 Dec 31; Claes Dudloos, Aeltje Samsons; Catharyn; Rutgert Willemszen, >> Juffr. Ver Brack >> 1665 Jan 12; Jean Dupre, Janneken Dupre; Francyntie; Anthony Dircks, >> Jacomyntie du Wel >> 1665 Jan 14; Jan Brouwer, Jannetie Jans; Hendrick; Albert Leenartszen, >> Ariaentie >> 1665 Jan 14; Jan Adamszen, Geertie Dircks; Maria; Steven Courtszen, Agniet >> Lodovyckszen >> 1665 Jan 18; Cornelis Matthyszen, Barentje Dircks; Matthys; Jan Adamszen >> - page 78 >> 1665 Jan 28; David de Voor, Jannetje Frans; Adriaen; Adriaen Dirckszen, >> Marie Dopzen >> 1665 Jan 28; Jacob Stoffelszen, Tryntie Jacobs; Jacobus; Nicolaes Verleth, >> El >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 2:35 AM >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen (Sara Teunis, Pieter Teunisz, Jan >> Dircksen, Jan Dircksz from Bremen) >> >> Pete can probably give a more thorough answer for both issues, but ships >> were not always well recorded, or the records may not have survived intact. >> In addition, cargo - that is soldiers - was not recorded as well as paying >> passengers, since they didn't pay passage... Also, records may have been >> recorded in several places - among possibly others, Dutch West India Co. in >> Amsterdam, port authority records in Amsterdam, port records in New >> Amsterdam, company records in New Amsterdam - and modern researches may not >> have translated, transcribed and peiced together all of them as of yet. >> These were not the passenger lists for immigration like latter years, but >> manifests by Dutch West Co. >> >> They couldn't have been married onboard without a preist (of the Dutch >> Reformed Church), and even then, it would not have been appropriate. The >> concept of a ship captain marrying people is somewhat a myth. Marriages >> were >> the domain of the church. To have been married, they needed to announce >> their intentions. I'm not real clear on the why, but I would conjecture >> that >> it allowed allowed time for anyone with reason for them not to be married >> to >> come forward (past spouces, debt holders, indenture holders, apprentishship >> masters, etc.). It may have also been necissary to allow time for record >> searches, should someone require it. I think posting marriage banns was >> similiar to advertising probate court cases, like is still done today with >> disposal of estate or repossessions. Whatever the reason, it was a >> requirement for any marriage. A two month waiting period was, I think, >> basically the minimim amount of time. According to the marriage record, she >> was not a widow, but was a "young daughter bride". ("Jongedochter bruid: J" >> - "Ja" is "Yes"; according to Google, "no" is "geen") >> >> If any of this is incorrect, hopefully Pete will set me straight. >> >> BTW, "January Dircksz" was Google getting aggressive in translation. The >> actual text is "Jan Dirckszen". >> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 12:14 AM, Susan Claggett >> <claimtofame@claggett6.com>wrote: >> >>> I don't think Jan Dircksen (January Dircksz) was on that ship with Sara >>> Theunisz. The records seem complete and numbered for passenger count. >>> Unless a soldier escorting the ship is not listed on the manifest like >>> other >>> staff. >>> >>> If he were traveling with her and got her pregnant why would they wait to >>> get to NY to get married? Could they have married on board the ship? If >>> she did get pregnant on board why did they wait over a month to get >> married >>> once in NY? Sara must have already been pregnant and possible a young >>> widow. Maybe there was a delay in baptizing Dirkjt after she was born. >>> >>> Susan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 11:57 PM >>> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen (Sara Teunis, Pieter Teunisz, Jan >>> Dircksen, Jan Dircksz from Bremen) >>> >>> Sorry, translation of marriage record: >>> Source Type: Wedding Book >>> Congregation: Collegiate Church of New York >>> Proclamation: 06/28/1664 >>> Belief: NDG >>> Hometown: New Amsterdam-New York >>> Groom: January Dircksz >>> Hometown groom: Arnhem >>> Bride: Sara Theunisz >>> Hometown wedding: Rotterdam >>> Young Daughter bride: J >>> Previous partner groom: >>> Previous partner bride >>> Further information: The groom is a soldier >>> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 11:55 PM,<jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Jan Dirksz Van Arnhem means son of Dirk from Arnhem. In turn, Dirk >> would >>>> have a patroym (what we today use as last name) would be the same as >> his >>>> father's first name. Particulairly confusing, since they tended to use >>> the >>>> same names generation after generation, creating an effect of >>> flip-flopping >>>> names. It's possible (completely speculative), but Dirk's father could >>> have >>>> been Jan, and thus be Dirk Jansz, etc. >>>> >>>> They were married Jun 28 1664: >>>> Soort bron: Trouwboek >>>> Kerkgemeente: Collegiate Church of New York >>>> Proclamatie: 28-06-1664 >>>> Gezindte: NDG >>>> Plaats: Nieuw Amsterdam-New York >>>> Bruidegom: Jan Dirckszen >>>> Geboorteplaats bruidegom: Arnhem >>>> Bruid: Sara Theuniszen >>>> Geboorteplaats bruid: Rotterdam >>>> Jongedochter bruid: J >>>> Vorige partner bruidegom: >>>> Vorige partner bruid: >>>> Nadere informatie: De bruidegom is soldaat >>>> >>>> De Trouw with Sara Theunis aboard arrived in Apr 1664. As Pete and I >> have >>>> argued over, despite being in basic agreement, he would have had to >> have >>>> been aboard the same ship for her to concieve so quickly after (or >>> during) >>>> the voyage. To assume otherwise would be to assume Dirkjte is not his >>>> daughter, but moreover is needless speculation (as he and I have been >>>> speculating over). >>>> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Susan Claggett< >>>> claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Nevermind on my question below because I just realized the ages won't >>> work >>>>> if our Jan Dircksen was born around 1640. He could not have had 3 >>>>> children >>>>> 15, 8 and 10 months in 1659. So Jan Dircksen from Alckmaer is >> obviously >>> a >>>>> different person. >>>>> >>>>> But our Jan Dircksen who married Sara Teunis could be at least age >> wise >>>>> the >>>>> son of Jan Dircksen of Bremen . >>>>> >>>>> My previous question: >>>>> Could our Jan Dircksen be the son of Jan Dircksz from Bremen? Did our >>> Jan >>>>> Dircksen arrive aboard the De Trouw 1659 with his wife and 3 children? >>>>> Did >>>>> his first wife pass away and Jan Dircksen than became engaged to Sara >>>>> Teunis >>>>> and he sent for her and she arrived in 1664 on the De Trouw??? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> DE TROUW (THE FAITH) 1659 >>>>> >>>>> 57 Jan Dircksen (Dircxsen), from Alckmaer >>>>> 58 Mrs. Dircksen (wife) >>>>> 59 - 61 three children Dircksen, ages 3/4, 8 and 15 years >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 04:33:12 -0500 > From: "Susan Claggett"<claimtofame@claggett6.com> > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen and Sara Teunis > To:<vannorman@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID:<DCA94C71D5204EDAA5D6FE21C8C57812@vantk1o0kgylz7> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > What does hometown wedding: Rotterdam mean? I know Sara is from Rotterdam > but what does home hometown wedding indicate? Could they have been married > in Rotterdam? Did anyone renew their vows once arriving in New Amsterdam to > be legally married in both places? > > Susan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 11:57 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen (Sara Teunis, Pieter Teunisz, Jan > Dircksen, Jan Dircksz from Bremen) > > Sorry, translation of marriage record: > Source Type: Wedding Book > Congregation: Collegiate Church of New York > Proclamation: 06/28/1664 > Belief: NDG > Hometown: New Amsterdam-New York > Groom: January Dircksz > Hometown groom: Arnhem > Bride: Sara Theunisz > Hometown wedding: Rotterdam > Young Daughter bride: J > Previous partner groom: > Previous partner bride > Further information: The groom is a soldier > On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 11:55 PM,<jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Jan Dirksz Van Arnhem means son of Dirk from Arnhem. In turn, Dirk would >> have a patroym (what we today use as last name) would be the same as his >> father's first name. Particulairly confusing, since they tended to use the >> same names generation after generation, creating an effect of > flip-flopping >> names. It's possible (completely speculative), but Dirk's father could > have >> been Jan, and thus be Dirk Jansz, etc. >> >> They were married Jun 28 1664: >> Soort bron: Trouwboek >> Kerkgemeente: Collegiate Church of New York >> Proclamatie: 28-06-1664 >> Gezindte: NDG >> Plaats: Nieuw Amsterdam-New York >> Bruidegom: Jan Dirckszen >> Geboorteplaats bruidegom: Arnhem >> Bruid: Sara Theuniszen >> Geboorteplaats bruid: Rotterdam >> Jongedochter bruid: J >> Vorige partner bruidegom: >> Vorige partner bruid: >> Nadere informatie: De bruidegom is soldaat >> >> De Trouw with Sara Theunis aboard arrived in Apr 1664. As Pete and I have >> argued over, despite being in basic agreement, he would have had to have >> been aboard the same ship for her to concieve so quickly after (or during) >> the voyage. To assume otherwise would be to assume Dirkjte is not his >> daughter, but moreover is needless speculation (as he and I have been >> speculating over). >> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Susan Claggett< >> claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >> >>> Nevermind on my question below because I just realized the ages won't > work >>> if our Jan Dircksen was born around 1640. He could not have had 3 >>> children >>> 15, 8 and 10 months in 1659. So Jan Dircksen from Alckmaer is obviously > a >>> different person. >>> >>> But our Jan Dircksen who married Sara Teunis could be at least age wise >>> the >>> son of Jan Dircksen of Bremen . >>> >>> My previous question: >>> Could our Jan Dircksen be the son of Jan Dircksz from Bremen? Did our > Jan >>> Dircksen arrive aboard the De Trouw 1659 with his wife and 3 children? >>> Did >>> his first wife pass away and Jan Dircksen than became engaged to Sara >>> Teunis >>> and he sent for her and she arrived in 1664 on the De Trouw??? >>> >>> >>> >>> DE TROUW (THE FAITH) 1659 >>> >>> 57 Jan Dircksen (Dircxsen), from Alckmaer >>> 58 Mrs. Dircksen (wife) >>> 59 - 61 three children Dircksen, ages 3/4, 8 and 15 years >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 05:06:23 -0500 > From: jroguetech@gmail.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen and Sara Teunis > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <AANLkTimJtmSPH8TTdr6mffwePtPb7CO3QBXUtN-WQxLi@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Mistranslation. "Geboorteplaats bruid" Geboorte(n) means birth. Plaats is > place. Bruid is obviously bride. "Bride's birth place". > > Don't read too much into "birth". Not only did they not always give their > actual birth place, but who knows what the original record states. > "Geboorteplaats" is probably a word that BHIC uses, and may not be the same > used on the actual original record. > > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 4:33 AM, Susan Claggett > <claimtofame@claggett6.com>wrote: > >> What does hometown wedding: Rotterdam mean? I know Sara is from Rotterdam >> but what does home hometown wedding indicate? Could they have been >> married >> in Rotterdam? Did anyone renew their vows once arriving in New Amsterdam >> to >> be legally married in both places? >> >> Susan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 11:57 PM >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen (Sara Teunis, Pieter Teunisz, Jan >> Dircksen, Jan Dircksz from Bremen) >> >> Sorry, translation of marriage record: >> Source Type: Wedding Book >> Congregation: Collegiate Church of New York >> Proclamation: 06/28/1664 >> Belief: NDG >> Hometown: New Amsterdam-New York >> Groom: January Dircksz >> Hometown groom: Arnhem >> Bride: Sara Theunisz >> Hometown wedding: Rotterdam >> Young Daughter bride: J >> Previous partner groom: >> Previous partner bride >> Further information: The groom is a soldier >> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 11:55 PM,<jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Jan Dirksz Van Arnhem means son of Dirk from Arnhem. In turn, Dirk would >>> have a patroym (what we today use as last name) would be the same as his >>> father's first name. Particulairly confusing, since they tended to use >> the >>> same names generation after generation, creating an effect of >> flip-flopping >>> names. It's possible (completely speculative), but Dirk's father could >> have >>> been Jan, and thus be Dirk Jansz, etc. >>> >>> They were married Jun 28 1664: >>> Soort bron: Trouwboek >>> Kerkgemeente: Collegiate Church of New York >>> Proclamatie: 28-06-1664 >>> Gezindte: NDG >>> Plaats: Nieuw Amsterdam-New York >>> Bruidegom: Jan Dirckszen >>> Geboorteplaats bruidegom: Arnhem >>> Bruid: Sara Theuniszen >>> Geboorteplaats bruid: Rotterdam >>> Jongedochter bruid: J >>> Vorige partner bruidegom: >>> Vorige partner bruid: >>> Nadere informatie: De bruidegom is soldaat >>> >>> De Trouw with Sara Theunis aboard arrived in Apr 1664. As Pete and I have >>> argued over, despite being in basic agreement, he would have had to have >>> been aboard the same ship for her to concieve so quickly after (or >> during) >>> the voyage. To assume otherwise would be to assume Dirkjte is not his >>> daughter, but moreover is needless speculation (as he and I have been >>> speculating over). >>> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Susan Claggett< >>> claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Nevermind on my question below because I just realized the ages won't >> work >>>> if our Jan Dircksen was born around 1640. He could not have had 3 >>>> children >>>> 15, 8 and 10 months in 1659. So Jan Dircksen from Alckmaer is obviously >> a >>>> different person. >>>> >>>> But our Jan Dircksen who married Sara Teunis could be at least age wise >>>> the >>>> son of Jan Dircksen of Bremen . >>>> >>>> My previous question: >>>> Could our Jan Dircksen be the son of Jan Dircksz from Bremen? Did our >> Jan >>>> Dircksen arrive aboard the De Trouw 1659 with his wife and 3 children? >>>> Did >>>> his first wife pass away and Jan Dircksen than became engaged to Sara >>>> Teunis >>>> and he sent for her and she arrived in 1664 on the De Trouw??? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> DE TROUW (THE FAITH) 1659 >>>> >>>> 57 Jan Dircksen (Dircxsen), from Alckmaer >>>> 58 Mrs. Dircksen (wife) >>>> 59 - 61 three children Dircksen, ages 3/4, 8 and 15 years >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the VANNORMAN list administrator, send an email to > VANNORMAN-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the VANNORMAN mailing list, send an email to VANNORMAN@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of VANNORMAN Digest, Vol 5, Issue 135 > ***************************************** > >