Last names weren't formally adopted (in New Amsterdam) until 1687, and weren't in common use for much longer, even into the 1800's. http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/pat.shtml Most records show Jan Dirksz as Jan Dirckszen http://www.altlaw.com/edball/dutchbap.htm (baptism date, father, mother, child, witness, witness) Aug; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Magdalena; Jilles Joosten, Maria Wouters 4 Jun; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara; Jan; Jan Laurenszen Duyts, Mayken Laurens 9 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Abraham; Jean le Maistre, Susanna Le Maistre 26 Sept; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Catharina; David Hendrickszen, Tryntie Hercks 3 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Isaac and Jacob (twins); Daniel Terneur, Hester de La Maistre, Marritie Pieters 31 Dec; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt (?) 14 Jul; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Thomas; Marie; Willem Van Leyden (I have Marie listed as a child, but unsourced beyond this record.) [This particuliar site is not easily sourced, since it's one long list; there's a several sites with New Amsterdam baptisms and marriages. If anyone needs this info with years, I can provide urls.] Among others, also listed are Jan Dirckszen Straetman or Straetmaecker (Street maker), Jan Dirckszen de Meyer/Mayer, Jan Dircxen op Hoboken, Jan Dirckszen van Bremen, and Jan Dirckszen van Amsterdam. There are also at least two, possibly three Sara Theunis'. Here's his marriage record, as being "van Arnhem". In addition to what Pete says, since he was a soldier, it's that much less reliable as a birth place. (I have a soldier of the Dutch West India Co., but I have no source.) Sara Theunis is listed as from Rotterdam. Possibly more reliable, but Rotterdam being a port city, it may have been more convient using her (possible) departure place than her actual home. Lot's of times, I've seem numerous immigrant ancester of mine using "New York" or "New Jersey" in census records, rather than actual original country of origin. Note that the patronym system also applies to Sara - "Sara Theuniszen", or "daughter of Theunis". Soort bron: Trouwboek Kerkgemeente: Collegiate Church of New York Proclamatie: 28-06-1664 Gezindte: NDG Plaats: Nieuw Amsterdam-New York Bruidegom: Jan Dirckszen Geboorteplaats bruidegom: Arnhem Bruid: Sara Theuniszen Geboorteplaats bruid: Rotterdam Jongedochter bruid: J Vorige partner bruidegom: Vorige partner bruid: Nadere informatie: De bruidegom is soldaat Translation: Source Type: Wedding Book Congregation: Collegiate Church of New York Proclamation: 06/28/1664 Belief: NDG Hometown: New Amsterdam-New York Groom: January Dircksz Hometown groom: Arnhem Bride: Sara Theunisz Hometown wedding: Rotterdam Young Daughter bride: J Previous partner groom: Previous partner bride Further information: The groom is a soldier [ http://bhic.nl/site/pagina.php?id=193&actie=akte&cid=cTExgRKQ2HdQx1CjKpnEFMDhX&xtr=21967397 ] On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Pete Gonigam <gonigam@hotmail.com> wrote: > May I point out again that "Van Arnhem", at least as it applies to the > records of Jan Dircks Van Arnhem who married Sarah Theunis, is clearly a > descriptor, not a surname. It means he was "from" Arnhem; perhaps born > there, perhaps raised there, perhaps lived there for a while before he came > to New Amsterdam. > > Half a dozen bits collectively suggest to me he probably wasn't born in > Arnhem. Among them was a scan several years ago through the Netherlands > indices suggested by jroguetech in which I could find no one who looked > very > much like our Jan Dircks. (Didn't find a Sarah Theunis, either.) > > Jan Dirck's children didn't begin using the Van Arnhem surname until around > 1695, 14 years after the last record that mentions their father (who was > still using the presumed patronymic "Dircksen"). In other words, for more > than 30 years after 1664 the family was NOT named Van Arnhem. > > (Please don't ask why they eventually adopted a surname their father never > seems to have used. It's another of many things about the early family > that > don't seem to make any sense.) > > --pete > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> > To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 9:50 PM > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > > > > > I'm having trouble figuring out how to use this website. Could you post > > the > > results for the Van Arnhem's to this list? Thanks > > > > Susan Van Orman Claggett > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:43 PM > > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > > > Here's a resource that shows some Van Arnhem's in Holland, going back as > > far > > as the 1600's. > > > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=10004 > > > > This has resources for New Amsterdam, New Holland: > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=193 > > (enter "Nieuw Amsterdam-New York" as Plaats) > > > > Does anyone have other resources for tracing the Van Arnhem's in Holland? > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
jroguetech@gmail.com what is your name? You have been sharing lots of great info with us but I don't know who you are by name. Are you in the US or in Holland? Thanks for your contributions! Susan -----Original Message----- From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:00 AM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource Last names weren't formally adopted (in New Amsterdam) until 1687, and weren't in common use for much longer, even into the 1800's. http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/pat.shtml Most records show Jan Dirksz as Jan Dirckszen http://www.altlaw.com/edball/dutchbap.htm (baptism date, father, mother, child, witness, witness) Aug; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Magdalena; Jilles Joosten, Maria Wouters 4 Jun; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara; Jan; Jan Laurenszen Duyts, Mayken Laurens 9 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Abraham; Jean le Maistre, Susanna Le Maistre 26 Sept; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Catharina; David Hendrickszen, Tryntie Hercks 3 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Isaac and Jacob (twins); Daniel Terneur, Hester de La Maistre, Marritie Pieters 31 Dec; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt (?) 14 Jul; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Thomas; Marie; Willem Van Leyden (I have Marie listed as a child, but unsourced beyond this record.) [This particuliar site is not easily sourced, since it's one long list; there's a several sites with New Amsterdam baptisms and marriages. If anyone needs this info with years, I can provide urls.] Among others, also listed are Jan Dirckszen Straetman or Straetmaecker (Street maker), Jan Dirckszen de Meyer/Mayer, Jan Dircxen op Hoboken, Jan Dirckszen van Bremen, and Jan Dirckszen van Amsterdam. There are also at least two, possibly three Sara Theunis'. Here's his marriage record, as being "van Arnhem". In addition to what Pete says, since he was a soldier, it's that much less reliable as a birth place. (I have a soldier of the Dutch West India Co., but I have no source.) Sara Theunis is listed as from Rotterdam. Possibly more reliable, but Rotterdam being a port city, it may have been more convient using her (possible) departure place than her actual home. Lot's of times, I've seem numerous immigrant ancester of mine using "New York" or "New Jersey" in census records, rather than actual original country of origin. Note that the patronym system also applies to Sara - "Sara Theuniszen", or "daughter of Theunis". Soort bron: Trouwboek Kerkgemeente: Collegiate Church of New York Proclamatie: 28-06-1664 Gezindte: NDG Plaats: Nieuw Amsterdam-New York Bruidegom: Jan Dirckszen Geboorteplaats bruidegom: Arnhem Bruid: Sara Theuniszen Geboorteplaats bruid: Rotterdam Jongedochter bruid: J Vorige partner bruidegom: Vorige partner bruid: Nadere informatie: De bruidegom is soldaat Translation: Source Type: Wedding Book Congregation: Collegiate Church of New York Proclamation: 06/28/1664 Belief: NDG Hometown: New Amsterdam-New York Groom: January Dircksz Hometown groom: Arnhem Bride: Sara Theunisz Hometown wedding: Rotterdam Young Daughter bride: J Previous partner groom: Previous partner bride Further information: The groom is a soldier [ http://bhic.nl/site/pagina.php?id=193&actie=akte&cid=cTExgRKQ2HdQx1CjKpnEFMD hX&xtr=21967397 ] On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Pete Gonigam <gonigam@hotmail.com> wrote: > May I point out again that "Van Arnhem", at least as it applies to the > records of Jan Dircks Van Arnhem who married Sarah Theunis, is clearly a > descriptor, not a surname. It means he was "from" Arnhem; perhaps born > there, perhaps raised there, perhaps lived there for a while before he came > to New Amsterdam. > > Half a dozen bits collectively suggest to me he probably wasn't born in > Arnhem. Among them was a scan several years ago through the Netherlands > indices suggested by jroguetech in which I could find no one who looked > very > much like our Jan Dircks. (Didn't find a Sarah Theunis, either.) > > Jan Dirck's children didn't begin using the Van Arnhem surname until around > 1695, 14 years after the last record that mentions their father (who was > still using the presumed patronymic "Dircksen"). In other words, for more > than 30 years after 1664 the family was NOT named Van Arnhem. > > (Please don't ask why they eventually adopted a surname their father never > seems to have used. It's another of many things about the early family > that > don't seem to make any sense.) > > --pete > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> > To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 9:50 PM > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > > > > > I'm having trouble figuring out how to use this website. Could you post > > the > > results for the Van Arnhem's to this list? Thanks > > > > Susan Van Orman Claggett > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:43 PM > > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > > > Here's a resource that shows some Van Arnhem's in Holland, going back as > > far > > as the 1600's. > > > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=10004 > > > > This has resources for New Amsterdam, New Holland: > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=193 > > (enter "Nieuw Amsterdam-New York" as Plaats) > > > > Does anyone have other resources for tracing the Van Arnhem's in Holland? > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message