I don't know. Pages 194, 197, 214, 246, 265, 272 Pete, is this our Sarah? http://books.google.com/books?id=C04CAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA139&dq=%22new+amsterdam%22+%22jan+dirckzen%22&hl=en&ei=kJWyTIKsMMeNnQebxv32CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=grietje%20beaver&f=false (p. 272 also has Grietje Jans, mentioned in the article on women's rights, cited for "whorish and evil life" and banished. Oddly, the next is against a man for "irregular housekeeping".) On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:22 AM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > I had always wanted to read about the boots. I think he was telling the > truth! I did a search for Sara Teunis and got this hit. Not sure if this > is our Sara. > > http://books.google.com/books?id=C04CAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA139&dq=%22new+amsterdam%2 > 2+%22jan+dirckzen%22&hl=en&ei=kJWyTIKsMMeNnQebxv32CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct= > result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Teunis&f=false > > -----Original Message----- > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 11:43 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > Source for Jan Dirckszen stealing boots: > http://books.google.com/books?id=C04CAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA139&dq=%22new+amsterdam%2 > 2+%22jan+dirckzen%22&hl=en&ei=kJWyTIKsMMeNnQebxv32CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct= > result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false > > On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Pete Gonigam <gonigam@hotmail.com> wrote: >> I agree with several of your conclusions. >> >> On the matter of Jan Dircks' being a WIC soldier, the marriage record > lists >> him as "soldat" and the only such in the colony at the time belonged to > WIC. >> (As did the colony, essentially an early "company town"). >> >> It's unlikely he was an officer, even an adelborst. He got in trouble for >> having a set of stolen boots he said he'd bought from another soldier, >> behavior that seems to belong more to the barracks than the BOQ. Neither > in >> later life did Jan Dircks ever display anything indicating leadership >> qualities. >> >> I agree he was probably young. Sara, too. To the extent there's any > record >> of them they "act" young and stupid.(Possibly a redundant phrase). >> >> I agree he was probably poor. Without getting into foraging and > occupation, >> being a solider was just a notch above being an actual thief. It was a >> high-risk low-pay job and about the only thing to recommend it as way of >> making a living was that even the military could see it was stupid to >> starve a soldier to death before the enemy had a chance to shoot him. >> Becoming a soldier was what you did if you had no other choice at all. >> >> For a number of complicated reasons I, too, suspect Jan Dircks (and > possibly >> Sarah) may not have been Dutch. In the wake of the Thirty Years' War, > they >> might have been, almost anything. However, Scandinavian seems unlikely. >> Something involving a French dialect seems more probable. >> -------- >> Our Sara Theunis is almost certainly the one aboard De Trouw in 1664. > Aside >> from the timing, Jan Duyts, witness at the baptism of her daughter, > Sara, >> was the husband of Jannetje Juriaens, essentially the same name as >> fellow-passenger Janneken Juriaensen aboard DeTrouw. The trip was a long > one >> and you'd reasonably expect at least one friendship to develop. >> >> In earlier posts I've explained why, applying Occam's Razor, Jan Dircks >> logically was aboard DeTrouw as well. >> >> Incidentally, while "Theunis" might be a patronymic, there's also a >> possibility it might be one that had morphed into a surname. The somewhat >> mysterious Jan Theuniszen ( later,Van Tilburg) sure looks like some sort > of >> relative although it's not at all clear if he's a father, uncle, brother > or >> some sort of cousin. >> >> If anyone has the time and money to do some heavy duty original research I >> can suggest where to look and what to look for to find more on Jan Dircks >> and Sara Theunis. I have, I regret to say, neither. >> >> --pete >> >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Yes. "of New Harlem". None of the people mentioned have an particular connection later to the Van Arnhem family. I think the incident happened on Pearl Street and I have no idea why any of them were there at all. ----------- There's another case around the same time in which Sarah gets in trouble, again, for gossiping. After the second scrape she apparently learned to keep her own counsel. --pete ----- Original Message ----- From: <jroguetech@gmail.com> To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource (stolen boots) I don't know. Pages 194, 197, 214, 246, 265, 272 Pete, is this our Sarah? http://books.google.com/books?id=C04CAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA139&dq=%22new+amsterdam%22+%22jan+dirckzen%22&hl=en&ei=kJWyTIKsMMeNnQebxv32CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=grietje%20beaver&f=false (p. 272 also has Grietje Jans, mentioned in the article on women's rights, cited for "whorish and evil life" and banished. Oddly, the next is against a man for "irregular housekeeping".) On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:22 AM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > I had always wanted to read about the boots. I think he was telling the > truth! I did a search for Sara Teunis and got this hit. Not sure if this > is our Sara. > > http://books.google.com/books?id=C04CAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA139&dq=%22new+amsterdam%2 > 2+%22jan+dirckzen%22&hl=en&ei=kJWyTIKsMMeNnQebxv32CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct= > result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Teunis&f=false > > -----Original Message----- > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 11:43 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > Source for Jan Dirckszen stealing boots: > http://books.google.com/books?id=C04CAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA139&dq=%22new+amsterdam%2 > 2+%22jan+dirckzen%22&hl=en&ei=kJWyTIKsMMeNnQebxv32CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct= > result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false > > On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Pete Gonigam <gonigam@hotmail.com> wrote: >> I agree with several of your conclusions. >> >> On the matter of Jan Dircks' being a WIC soldier, the marriage record > lists >> him as "soldat" and the only such in the colony at the time belonged to > WIC. >> (As did the colony, essentially an early "company town"). >> >> It's unlikely he was an officer, even an adelborst. He got in trouble for >> having a set of stolen boots he said he'd bought from another soldier, >> behavior that seems to belong more to the barracks than the BOQ. Neither > in >> later life did Jan Dircks ever display anything indicating leadership >> qualities. >> >> I agree he was probably young. Sara, too. To the extent there's any > record >> of them they "act" young and stupid.(Possibly a redundant phrase). >> >> I agree he was probably poor. Without getting into foraging and > occupation, >> being a solider was just a notch above being an actual thief. It was a >> high-risk low-pay job and about the only thing to recommend it as way of >> making a living was that even the military could see it was stupid to >> starve a soldier to death before the enemy had a chance to shoot him. >> Becoming a soldier was what you did if you had no other choice at all. >> >> For a number of complicated reasons I, too, suspect Jan Dircks (and > possibly >> Sarah) may not have been Dutch. In the wake of the Thirty Years' War, > they >> might have been, almost anything. However, Scandinavian seems unlikely. >> Something involving a French dialect seems more probable. >> -------- >> Our Sara Theunis is almost certainly the one aboard De Trouw in 1664. > Aside >> from the timing, Jan Duyts, witness at the baptism of her daughter, > Sara, >> was the husband of Jannetje Juriaens, essentially the same name as >> fellow-passenger Janneken Juriaensen aboard DeTrouw. The trip was a long > one >> and you'd reasonably expect at least one friendship to develop. >> >> In earlier posts I've explained why, applying Occam's Razor, Jan Dircks >> logically was aboard DeTrouw as well. >> >> Incidentally, while "Theunis" might be a patronymic, there's also a >> possibility it might be one that had morphed into a surname. The somewhat >> mysterious Jan Theuniszen ( later,Van Tilburg) sure looks like some sort > of >> relative although it's not at all clear if he's a father, uncle, brother > or >> some sort of cousin. >> >> If anyone has the time and money to do some heavy duty original research >> I >> can suggest where to look and what to look for to find more on Jan Dircks >> and Sara Theunis. I have, I regret to say, neither. >> >> --pete >> >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message