Okay if this is our Sara Teunis that arrived on De Trouw in 1664 when did Jan Dircksen come to New York? On my tree I have their marriage date as June 28 1664. Can't remember where this exact date came from but I picked it up from someone's tree or from the marriage record attached to Sara Theunis. June 28 does not correspond well with the birth of their first daughter Dirckje 31 Dec 1664; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt Since they did not travel together she may have been promised to him and came over to join him. Could Sara be a daughter of Pieter Teunisz? >Pieter Teunisz From Brunswijck, (Germany); is first mentioned under date of March 28, 1648, as having taken farm implements, houses and cattle, formerly used by him and Crijn Cornelisz, with him to Catskill. In 1652 and 1653, Pieter Teunisz and Jan Dircksz, from Bremen, were summoned to appear before the court to settle their accounts Could our Jan Dircksen be the son of Jan Dircksz from Bremen? Did our Jan Dircksen arrive aboard the De Trouw 1659 with his wife and 3 children? Did his first wife pass away and Jan Dircksen than became engaged to Sara Teunis and he sent for her and she arrived in 1664 on the De Trouw??? DE TROUW (THE FAITH) 1659 57 Jan Dircksen (Dircxsen), from Alckmaer 58 Mrs. Dircksen (wife) 59 - 61 three children Dircksen, ages 3/4, 8 and 15 years DE TROUW (THE FAITH) Passenger list below Sailed after 13 Feb. 1659 [JJ], on 12 Feb 1659 [NWI], arrived New Amsterdam before 5 May 1659 Names of special interest to me******* . Jan Woutersen, from Ravesteyn; shoemaker, and wife and daughter . Catalyntje Cranenburg; maiden . Jan van Coppenol, from Remsen; farmer and wife and 2 children . Matthys Roelofs, from Denmark,and wife and child . Sophia Roeloffs . Geertruy Jochems, from Hamburgh; Wife of Claes Claessen from Amersfoort, now in N. Netherland; and two children . Peter Corneliss, from Holsteyn; Labourer ******** . Peter Jacobs, from Holsteyn . Josyntje Verhagen, from Middelburg, and daughter . Saertge Hendricks, from Delft . Egbert Meynderts, from Amsterdam, and wife and child and servant . Jan Leurens Noorman and wife ******* . Harmen Coerten, from Voorhuysen and wife and 5 children . Magalantje Teunis, from Voorhuysen ******* . Feytje Dircks ******** . Gillis Jansen van Garder and Wife and four children ******** . Bastiaen Clement, from Doornick . Adriaen Fournoi, from Valenciennes . Jannetje Eyckers, from East Friesland . Joris Jorissen Townsen, from Redfort; mason . Nicholas Gillissen Marschal . Wouter gerritsen van Kootuyck . Jan Jacobsen, from Utrecht; farmer, and wife, mother and two children . Arent Francken van Iperen . Dennys Isacksen, from Wyck by Daurstede . Weyntje Martens van Gorehem . Vroutje Gerrits, wife of Cosyn Gerritsen; Wheelwright . Jan Dircksen, from Alckmaer and Wife and three children ********* . Nettert Jansen, from Embden . Epke Jacobs, from Harlingen; farmer and wife and five sons . Stoffiel Gerritsen from Laer [ENN: On May 2, 1660 Adriaen van laer, his brother, settles his account] . Jan Meynderts, from Iperen; farmer and wife . Jan Barents Ameshof, from Amsterdam . Symon Drune from Henegouw . Hendrick Harmensen, from Amsterdam . Evert Cornellissen from the vicinity of Amersfoort ********* . Laurens Jacobs van der Wielen . Jannetje Theunis van Ysseltstein ********** . Jan Roelofsen, van Naerden; farmer . Jacob Hendricks, from the Highland, and maidservant . Goossen van Twiller, from New-Kerk . Lawrens Janssen, from Wormer ********* . Jan Harmens from Amersfoort; Taylor, and wife and four children . Evert Marschal; glasier, from Amsterdam and wife and daughter . Boele Roelofsen, Joncker, and wife and four children, besides his Wife's sister and a boy Name: Sara Teunis Marriage Date: 1664 Marriage Place: New York City, New York Passengers aboard the De Trouw in 1664 . Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer . Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda . Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child [re NWI- child 8 years old] . Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children [re NWI children were 8,6,5 and 3] . Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum . Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child . Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child [re NWI child was 3 years old] . Sara Teunis We can add the following names as found in Abstracts from Notarial Documents in the Amsterdam Archives by Pim Nieuwenhuis published in New Netherland Connections in series Vol. 4:3,4; Vol. 5:1-3 . Daniel de Hondecoutre, bachelor, engaged by Pieter van den Beilcken merchant in Leyden for 4 years to trade on his behalf in New Netherland [NNC] . Norbardus Bodas, soldier from Antwerp, in service of WIC [NNC] Did Sara Teunis travel with Lysbet de Roode wife of John Saline? -----Original Message----- From: Linda Schwenn [mailto:schwel@comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 5:35 PM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: [VANNORMAN] Dirk Jansz I received the information below from Janice Walters in about 2006. I have not followed up on any of it and only send it on today because of all the current interest. I have NOT documented this information, but have found duplication of names on other Ancestry.com trees, including Susan Claggett's. Of special interest to me is the addition that he was an officer in the military, suggesting to me that soldiering was in the family. Another researcher wrote that Dirk was "an officer under William II, Prince of Oranje, Count of Nassau," perhaps an example of redundant error...or fact? *Individual Report for Dirk Jansz Van Arnhem VA* *Individual Summary:* *Dirk Jansz Van Arnhem VA* Sex: Male Father: Jan Derryckssen Mother: Gerriken Beecken *Individual Facts:* Birth: Abt. 1615 in Arnhem, Gelderland, Holland Reference ID: 33 Death: Arnhem, Gelderland, Holland Military Service: officer under General Count von Nassau *Shared Facts:* *Magdalena Jans* Marriage: 22 Apr 1638 in Arnhem, Gelderland, Holland Reference ID: 1692 Children: Dirrecxken Van Arnhem VA Jan Dirckszen Van Arnhem VA Joris Van Arnhem VA Hendrik Van Arnhem VA Marricken Van Arnhem VA *Notes:* Person Notes: [jwlaters62[1] VN1.FTW] Was an officer under General County Von Nassau. Was a soldier with Rembrandt's brother, Saloman, who was the subject in "Man in a Golden Helmet". ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It is my impression that Jan Dircksz could not be son of Jan (Jan Dirksz from Bremen, or any Jan from anywhere). His father would be Dirck (unless he was a bastard son - no clue what they did in those cases; my guess would be to either take the patronym of their father, or not use any patrnonym). He clearly used the Patronyn system, as his several of his children have "Jansz/Janszen" as a "middle name". He was also known as both "Jan Dircks" and "Jan Dirckzen" (latter being "son of"). Whether or not he used "Van Arnhem" as a last name, I will leave to Pete to argue, except to point out that I've only seen him referred to as "Van Arnhem", I believe, twice - I've seen him referred to as "the soldier" an equal number of times. Nonetheless, IF he used it as a last name, his father would be "Dirck [unknown] Van Arnhem". [Has anyone seen the original record? Did he capatalize "van"?] The strong presumption is that he immigrated about the De Trouw with Sara in 1664 (NOT 1659), mostly due to the timing of Dirkje. There is not a full passenger list available for De Trouw (1664), but it's known that there was another soldier onboard. The partial list of known people aboard De Trouw not containing Jan Dircksz is no more evidence of him not being aboard, than his name not appearing on any ship register as being evidence he never immigrated. My opinion on Dirkje is that she was premature by about a month and was conceived on arrival. It's my impression that Pete's theory is that she was conceived enroute. If my theory is correct, they presumably knew each other, from the ship, and/or prior to immigration. If they knew each other (well enough to hook up so quickly after her known arrival), there's little sense in them immigrating separately. It's possible they immigrated separately, but without evidence to the contrary, the evidence they arrived together wins. If Pete's theory is correct... They had to be on the same ship. Either way, the evidence is they traveled together. The third possibility proposed is that Sara was pregnant prior to departure. That would put Dirkje about two months overdue... Well outside a reasonable amount of time, without evidence to support it. On possibilities of Sara's parents, personally I simply don't have enough information/knowledge to address it. On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > Okay if this is our Sara Teunis that arrived on De Trouw in 1664 when did > Jan Dircksen come to New York? > > > > On my tree I have their marriage date as June 28 1664.  Can't remember where > this exact date came from but I picked it up from someone's tree or from the > marriage record attached to Sara Theunis.  June 28 does not correspond well > with the birth of their first daughter Dirckje 31 Dec 1664; Jan Dirckszen, > Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt > > > > Since they did not travel together she may have been promised to him and > came over to join him.  Could Sara be a daughter of Pieter Teunisz? > > > >>Pieter Teunisz From Brunswijck, (Germany); is first mentioned under date of > March 28, 1648, as having taken farm implements, houses and cattle, formerly > used by him and Crijn Cornelisz, with him to Catskill. In 1652 and 1653, > Pieter Teunisz and Jan Dircksz, from Bremen, were summoned to appear before > the court to settle their accounts > > > > Could our Jan Dircksen be the son of Jan Dircksz from Bremen?  Did our Jan > Dircksen arrive aboard the De Trouw 1659 with his wife and 3 children?  Did > his first wife pass away and Jan Dircksen than became engaged to Sara Teunis > and he sent for her and she arrived in 1664 on the De Trouw??? > > > > DE TROUW (THE FAITH) 1659 > > > >  57       Jan Dircksen (Dircxsen), from Alckmaer > > > >  58       Mrs. Dircksen (wife) > > > >  59 - 61  three children Dircksen, ages 3/4, 8 and 15 years > > > > DE TROUW (THE FAITH) > > > > Passenger list below Sailed after 13 Feb. 1659 [JJ], on 12 Feb 1659 [NWI], > arrived New Amsterdam before 5 May 1659 > > > > > > Names of special interest to me******* > > > > .           Jan Woutersen, from Ravesteyn; shoemaker, and wife and daughter > > > > .           Catalyntje Cranenburg; maiden > > > > .           Jan van Coppenol, from Remsen; farmer and wife and 2 children > > > > .           Matthys Roelofs, from Denmark,and wife and child > > > > .           Sophia Roeloffs > > > > .           Geertruy Jochems, from Hamburgh; Wife of Claes Claessen from > Amersfoort, now in N. Netherland; and two children > > > > .           Peter Corneliss, from Holsteyn; Labourer ******** > > > > .           Peter Jacobs, from Holsteyn > > > > .           Josyntje Verhagen, from Middelburg, and daughter > > > > .           Saertge Hendricks, from Delft > > > > .           Egbert Meynderts, from Amsterdam, and wife and child and servant > > > > > .           Jan Leurens Noorman and wife ******* > > > > .           Harmen Coerten, from Voorhuysen and wife and 5 children > > > > .           Magalantje Teunis, from Voorhuysen ******* > > > > .           Feytje Dircks ******** > > > > .           Gillis Jansen van Garder and Wife and four children ******** > > > > .           Bastiaen Clement, from Doornick > > > > .           Adriaen Fournoi, from Valenciennes > > > > .           Jannetje Eyckers, from East Friesland > > > > .           Joris Jorissen Townsen, from Redfort; mason > > > > .           Nicholas Gillissen Marschal > > > > .           Wouter gerritsen van Kootuyck > > > > .           Jan Jacobsen, from Utrecht; farmer, and wife, mother and two > children > > > > .           Arent Francken van Iperen > > > > .           Dennys Isacksen, from Wyck by Daurstede > > > > .           Weyntje Martens van Gorehem > > > > .           Vroutje Gerrits, wife of Cosyn Gerritsen; Wheelwright > > > > .           Jan Dircksen, from Alckmaer and Wife and three children > ********* > > > > .           Nettert Jansen, from Embden > > > > .           Epke Jacobs, from Harlingen; farmer and wife and five sons > > > > .           Stoffiel Gerritsen from Laer [ENN: On May 2, 1660 Adriaen van > laer, his brother, settles his account] > > > > .           Jan Meynderts, from Iperen; farmer and wife > > > > .           Jan Barents Ameshof, from Amsterdam > > > > .           Symon Drune from Henegouw > > > > .           Hendrick Harmensen, from Amsterdam > > > > .           Evert Cornellissen from the vicinity of Amersfoort ********* > > > > .           Laurens Jacobs van der Wielen > > > > .           Jannetje Theunis van Ysseltstein ********** > > > > .           Jan Roelofsen, van Naerden; farmer > > > > .           Jacob Hendricks, from the Highland, and maidservant > > > > .           Goossen van Twiller, from New-Kerk > > > > .           Lawrens Janssen, from Wormer ********* > > > > .           Jan Harmens from Amersfoort; Taylor, and wife and four children > > > > .           Evert Marschal; glasier, from Amsterdam and wife and daughter > > > > .           Boele Roelofsen, Joncker, and wife and four children, besides > his Wife's sister and a boy > > > > > > > > Name: Sara Teunis > > > > Marriage Date: 1664 > > > > Marriage Place:  New York City, New York > > > > > > > > Passengers aboard the De Trouw in 1664 > > > > .           Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer > > > > .           Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda > > > > .           Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child [re NWI- child 8 years > old] > > > > .           Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four > children [re NWI children were 8,6,5 and 3] > > > > .           Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum > > > > .           Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child > > > > .           Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child > [re NWI child was 3 years old] > > > > .           Sara Teunis > > > > We can add the following names as found in Abstracts from Notarial Documents > in the Amsterdam Archives by Pim Nieuwenhuis published in New Netherland > Connections in series Vol. 4:3,4; Vol. 5:1-3 > > > > .           Daniel de Hondecoutre, bachelor, engaged by Pieter van den > Beilcken merchant in Leyden for 4 years to trade on his behalf in New > Netherland [NNC] > > > > .           Norbardus Bodas, soldier from Antwerp, in service of WIC [NNC] > > > >  Did Sara Teunis travel with Lysbet de Roode wife of John Saline? > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Linda Schwenn [mailto:schwel@comcast.net] > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 5:35 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Dirk Jansz > > > > I received the information below from Janice Walters in about 2006. I have > > not followed up on any of it and only send it on today because of all the > > current interest. I have NOT documented this information, but have found > > duplication of names on other Ancestry.com trees, including Susan > > Claggett's. Of special interest to me is the addition that he was an officer > > in the military, suggesting to me that soldiering was in the family. > > Another researcher wrote that Dirk was "an officer under William II, Prince > > of Oranje, Count of Nassau," perhaps an example of redundant error...or > > fact? > > > >  *Individual Report for Dirk Jansz Van Arnhem VA* > > > > > >     *Individual Summary:* > > > > *Dirk Jansz Van Arnhem VA* > > > > > > > > > > > >   Sex: > > > > Male > > > > > >   Father: > > > > Jan Derryckssen > > > > > >   Mother: > > > > Gerriken Beecken > > > > > > > > > > > >    *Individual Facts:* > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    Birth: > > > > Abt. 1615 in Arnhem, Gelderland, Holland > > > > > >   Reference ID: > > > > 33 > > > > > >   Death: > > > > Arnhem, Gelderland, Holland > > > > > >   Military Service: > > > > officer under General Count von Nassau > > > > > > > > > > > >    *Shared Facts:* > > > > *Magdalena Jans* > > > > > > > > > > > >    Marriage: > > > > 22 Apr 1638 in Arnhem, Gelderland, Holland > > > > > >   Reference ID: > > > > 1692 > > > > > >   Children: > > > > Dirrecxken Van Arnhem VA > > > > > > > >  Jan Dirckszen Van Arnhem VA > > > > > > > >  Joris Van Arnhem VA > > > > > > > >  Hendrik Van Arnhem VA > > > > > > > >  Marricken Van Arnhem VA > > > > > > > >  *Notes:* > > > > > >  Person Notes: [jwlaters62[1] VN1.FTW] > > > > > >  Was an officer under General County Von Nassau. > > > > > >  Was a soldier with Rembrandt's brother, Saloman, who was the subject in > > "Man in a Golden Helmet". > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >