I disagree with Pete, in that I find it more likely she concieved on arrival. If conceived upon arrival, Dirkjz would have been premature about 3, maybe 4 weeks. Personally, I think this is more likely than onboard (he points out the difficulites of enroute). Regardless, even if she conceived on arrival, I agree it's probable she met the father onboard. Or she could have been raped. There is known to have been one soldier onboard De Trouw (1664), and where there's one, there's more. (Norbardus Bodas, soldier from Antwerp.) On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Pete Gonigam <gonigam@hotmail.com> wrote: > More reliable due to Lorrine's high standards: > > http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/mm_intro.shtml > > Here's DeTrouw 1664: > > http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/nnship34.shtml > > DeTrouw made the trip with some regularity. The last one before the Dutch > surrender of New Amsterdam left Netherlands Jan. 19, 1664, arriving Apr. > 17. 1664. > > That 1659 voyage with 108 passengers listed, however, provides some sort of > measure of the actual capacity of De Trouw. There could have been many > more aboard on the 1664 voyage than the 13 adults and 7 children known from > the ship's books and notarial records. > > --pete > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> > To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 4:11 PM > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen van Bremen New > AmsterdamBaptismsfrom1639-1730 > > > > Pete are we talking about the same sailing of the De Trouw? This > > reference > > says it arrived in 1659 and Dirckje was baptized in 1664. > > > > Susan > > > > Amsterdam, Netherlands to New Netherland (New York) sailed 12 February > > 1659 > > arrived May 1659 > > Captain: Jan Jansen Bestevaer > > De Trouw (In The Faith) sailed from Amsterdam February 12, 1659 under > > Captain Jan Jansen Bestevaer arriving at New Amsterdam May, 1659. > > http://www.immigrantships.net/v10/1600v10/detrouw16590500.html > > > > BAPTISMS OF 1664 > > 31 Dec; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt > > > > BAPTISMS OF 1669 > > Aug; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Magdalena; Jilles Joosten, Maria > Wouters > > > > BAPTISMS OF 1671 > > 4 Jun; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara; Jan; Jan Laurenszen Duyts, Mayken > > Laurens > > > > BAPTISMS OF 1673 > > 9 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Abraham; Jean le Maistre, Susanna Le > > Maistre > > > > BAPTISMS OF 1675 > > 14 Jul; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Thomas; Marie; Willem Van Leyden ??? > > > > BAPTISMS OF 1677 > > 26 Sept; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Catharina; David Hendrickszen, > > Tryntie > > Hercks > > > > BAPTISMS OF 1680 > > 3 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Isaac and Jacob (twins); Daniel > > Terneur, > > Hester de La Maistre, Marritie Pieters > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Pete Gonigam [mailto:gonigam@hotmail.com] > > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 3:25 PM > > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen van Bremen New Amsterdam > > Baptismsfrom1639-1730 > > > > Please look for my post a few months ago about Pym Van Arnhem's > > Netherland-based web page. > > > > Jan Dircks (Van Arnhem) isn't any of the many other Jan Dircks's during > > the > > period in New Amsterdam. In the first place most of them have their own > > documented histories, anyway. More important, though, look at the date > of > > baptism of Jan Dircks' first child, daughter Dirkje. Then look at the > > date > > > > De Trouw reached port. Unless you resort to unneccessarily complicated > > explanations, Sara Theunis was at least a month pregnant when when she > > disembarked the ship which had been at sea for three months. Again, > > unless > > you resort to complicated ( indeed, wholly unlikely) explanations, Jan > > Dircks is the guy who made her that way so he was on the ship, too. > > > > De Trouw and Gekruyste Hart both left Amsterdam within a day of each > other > > at the wrong time of the year for the voyage. However, it was the right > > time of year for WIC to send about 200 soldiers to New Amsterdam to > > protect > > against an anticipated attack by the British. > > > > There's no record I can find that soldiers were aboard the two ships but > > the > > > > ships had to have been carrying something. There are indications the > New > > Amsterdam garrison was considerably larger after the ships had arrived. > > > > Stuyvesant in Jan 1664 had sent a letter to the company requesting 400 > > reinforcements but he was at the end of the news chain and the WIC > > directors were at the front end. They could read the tea leaves as well > > as > > he could and long before he even got a squint at them in any case. > > > > Don't ask me how Jan Dircks and Sara managed to do it on a little ship > > packed with a company of soldiers in the middle of the Atlantic in > Winter. > > "Love laughs at locks," and a lot of other impediments if I recall the > > days > > of my youth correctly. (There's a remote chance the ships might have > > dropped reinforcements at Guyana or the Antilles before swinging north to > > New Amsterdam; I haven't been able to figure out an average length of > time > > for a winter crossing because it's not clear if there ever were any > > others.) > > > > There should be WIC and notarial records on all this. However they're > > going > > > > to be in Dutch and they're going to be in the Netherlands. Assuming they > > survived 350 years of fires, floods, bugs, rats and God knows what else > in > > the first place. > > > > I'd really love to know who in New Amsterdam paid Sara's passage on > > DeTrouw > > (the only reason we know about it at all is that it wasn't paid at the > > Amsterdam end) but I've never been able to find that. > > > > --pete > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> > > To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 1:36 PM > > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen van Bremen New Amsterdam Baptisms > > from1639-1730 > > > > > >> This is interesting. Note the name Tryntie again below. Jan Dircksen > >> van > >> Bremen's wife was Catharine Tryntie Dircksen (Andriesen). Does anyone > >> think > >> we may be looking at the same person in Jan Dircksen van Bremen and our > >> Jan > >> Dirckszen who was married to Sara Theunis? Was she his second wife? > >> > >> 1664 Dec 31; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt > >> > >> I don't think I have ever visited this page before of early baptismal > >> records. Maybe I have? The all start to blend together. Lots of Jan > >> Dirckszen hits at the below link. > >> > >> Susan > >> > >> http://longislandgenealogy.com/baptisms/baps.html > >> > >> New Amsterdam Baptisms from 1639-1730 > >> These are complete to the end of 1730 as per Vol II of the > >> Collections of the New York Genealogical and Biographical Society, > 1901'. > >> Originally appearing on the site of Robert L. Billard > >> You can visit his site at > >> http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~rbillard/index.htm > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Susan Claggett [mailto:claimtofame@claggett6.com] > >> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:18 PM > >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen van Bremen > >> > >> > >> > >> Immigrants to New Netherlands 1623-64 > >> > >> > > > http://www.family-crests.com/family-crest-coat-of-arms/surnames-7-7/immigran > >> ts-to-new-netherlands-1623.html > >> > >> > >> > >> Jan Dircksz from Bremen > >> > >> > >> > >> Scandinavian Immigrants in New York > >> 1630-1674 > >> > >> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nycoloni/evjen/407evj.html > >> > >> Interesting description of Jan Dircksen from Bremen at above link midway > >> down the page. His wife's name was Tryntie Anders. Just below Jan > >> Dircksen > >> is a Lucas Dircksen from Berg German married to Annetje Cornelis. > >> > >> > >> > >> Jan Van Bremen Dircksen's Details > >> > >> http://www.geni.com/people/Jan-Dircksen/5039393853980077705 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Birthdate: > >> > >> 1620 > >> > >> > >> Birthplace: > >> > >> Bremen, Germany > >> > >> > >> Death: > >> > >> Died September 15, 1668 in Albany, New York > >> > >> > >> Occupation: > >> > >> IMMIGRATION: 1638 From Texel to New Amsterdam (New York City)HET WAPEN > >> VAN > >> NOORWEGEN ([THE SHIP] Arms of Norway)Sailed from the Texel about 12 May > >> 1638, arrived New Amsterdam before 4 August1638 [as per the account > >> submitted by Cornelis Melyn against Kili > >> > >> > >> Added by: > >> > >> Brian <http://www.geni.com/people/Brian-Carrigan/311175475190004578> > >> Carrigan on January 27, 2008 > >> > >> > >> Managed by: > >> > >> Brian <http://www.geni.com/people/Brian-Carrigan/311175475190004578> > >> Peter > >> Carrigan > >> > >> > >> Last Updated: > >> > >> October 26, 2008 > >> > >> Catharine Tryntie Dircksen (Andriesen)'s Family > >> > >> > >> Immediate Family: > >> > >> Daughter of ? Andriesen > >> <http://www.geni.com/people/-Andriesen/5039425191680040209> and ? > >> <http://www.geni.com/people/-Andriesen/5039425205520040215> Andriesen > >> Wife of Jan < > http://www.geni.com/people/Jan-Dircksen/5039393853980077705> > >> Dircksen > >> Mother of Sara > >> <http://www.geni.com/people/Sara-Gardenier/5039346657760037507> > >> Gardenier > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Susan Claggett [mailto:claimtofame@claggett6.com] > >> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 4:57 AM > >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen van Bremen > >> > >> > >> > >> Has anyone come across this before? Could this be anything? Jan > >> Dircksen > >> > >> van Bremen > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > http://www.archive.org/stream/16301897briefhis00rose/16301897briefhis00rose_ > >> > >> djvu.txt > >> > >> > >> > >> Preserved among the Fort Orange Records of date 1660, May > >> > >> 27, is the "petition of Jan Dircksen van Bremen, Albert James von > >> > >> Volekenburgh, et al., praying that Dutch as well as Indians brokers > >> > >> be employed to trade with the Indians," and among the names ap- > >> > >> pended is " Henderick Roseboom." The other party were for pro- > >> > >> hibiting all Europeans, " Christians," from treading the forest paths, > >> > >> thus excluding civilization. The first date after this is Sept. 13, > >> > >> 1662, when he purchased a house and lot "in the village of Bever- > >> > >> wyck, on the hill," and from this time on his name is found in num- > >> > >> erous authentic documents in the annals of Albany. The property > >> > >> mentioned was of historical interest, having been patented to Pieter > >> > >> Bronck. "As it stands with all that is fast by earth and nailed, > >> > >> and a? great as the patent thereof mentions," it was conveyed by > >> > >> Reyndert Pieterse (Bronck?) and Jacob Herick (Gerick), "for the > >> > >> sum of 550 guilders, payable in good merchantable beavers, at eight > >> > >> guilders apiece, in two installments, in July '63 and '64," the two > >> > >> "sellers" setting their "marks," but Rooseboom writing hi^ name > >> > >> with his own hand. November 16, of that year, he is surety with > >> > >> J. J. Schermerhooren for Jurriaen Janssen in the purchase of a house > >> > >> from the estate of Andries Herbertsen, for the benefit of the > >> > >> widow. > >> > >> > >> > >> The exact situations of the ancient properties in Albany have > >> > >> been carefully ascertained and mapped, so that we can fix the pre- > >> > >> cise spot where this ancestor lived. It lay on the east side of Norlli > >> > >> Pearl street, northward of Maiden Lane. The palisades constitu- > >> > >> ting the northerly fortifications of the settlement passed through the > >> > >> middle of the land-plat, and the name of " Roseboom's gate" was > >> > >> o-iven to the exit which existed at that point, the "Burghers' block- > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

"If conceived on arrival..." Old Jan Dircks must have been an awfully smooth talker or Sara was a roundheel. Met, courted and impregnated within, let's say, a month of her arrival. I'd accept an 8-month baby but unless Sara hopped off the boat and straight into bed with a guy she'd just met you have to posit something closer to a 7-month one. (Incidentally, I'm not working just off Dirkje's baptism--which I've arbitrarily set as two weeks after her birth. Note Jan and Sara were married in at the end of June. However the banns had to be posted for a month previous to that. Assume Sarah waited for three missed periods to "be sure". From either recorded event we end up with a conception in mid- or late-March.) "Or she could have been raped." So Jan met her and shortly married her even though she was carrying another man's child. That would make him more saintly than the general run of the males, never mind the subset of soldiers, a group not noted for their enlightened social views. The simplest explanation is Jan Dircks was on DeTrouw with Sara and somehow they managed a fast fornication in the forecastle or something. If you prefer a more palatable alternative I'm also willing to posit three months of desperately unconsummated love at sea followed instanter upon landing by a gallop across the percales. That would eliminate the privacy-aboard-ship problem and only require Dirkje to be born a little premature, a not uncomon feature in the first pregnancy of a young white woman, at least by modern statistics. Either way, though, Jan Dircks had to be aboard DeTrouw with Sara. All other explanations "multiply entities unnecessarily", not to mention implausibly. --------- I just did a quick scan to see if anything new had turned up on the subject of soldiers. I find reference to a letter from the WIC directors to Stuyvesant indicating they sent him at least 40 of them in early 1664. --pete ----- Original Message ----- From: <jroguetech@gmail.com> To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen van Bremen NewAmsterdamBaptismsfrom1639-1730 >I disagree with Pete, in that I find it more likely she concieved on > arrival. If conceived upon arrival, Dirkjz would have been premature about > 3, maybe 4 weeks. Personally, I think this is more likely than onboard > (he > points out the difficulites of enroute). Regardless, even if she > conceived > on arrival, I agree it's probable she met the father onboard. Or she could > have been raped. > > There is known to have been one soldier onboard De Trouw (1664), and where > there's one, there's more. (Norbardus Bodas, soldier from Antwerp.) > On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Pete Gonigam <gonigam@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> More reliable due to Lorrine's high standards: >> >> http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/mm_intro.shtml >> >> Here's DeTrouw 1664: >> >> http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/nnship34.shtml >> >> DeTrouw made the trip with some regularity. The last one before the >> Dutch >> surrender of New Amsterdam left Netherlands Jan. 19, 1664, arriving Apr. >> 17. 1664. >> >> That 1659 voyage with 108 passengers listed, however, provides some sort >> of >> measure of the actual capacity of De Trouw. There could have been many >> more aboard on the 1664 voyage than the 13 adults and 7 children known >> from >> the ship's books and notarial records. >> >> --pete >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> >> To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 4:11 PM >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen van Bremen New >> AmsterdamBaptismsfrom1639-1730 >> >> >> > Pete are we talking about the same sailing of the De Trouw? This >> > reference >> > says it arrived in 1659 and Dirckje was baptized in 1664. >> > >> > Susan >> > >> > Amsterdam, Netherlands to New Netherland (New York) sailed 12 February >> > 1659 >> > arrived May 1659 >> > Captain: Jan Jansen Bestevaer >> > De Trouw (In The Faith) sailed from Amsterdam February 12, 1659 under >> > Captain Jan Jansen Bestevaer arriving at New Amsterdam May, 1659. >> > http://www.immigrantships.net/v10/1600v10/detrouw16590500.html >> > >> > BAPTISMS OF 1664 >> > 31 Dec; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt >> > >> > BAPTISMS OF 1669 >> > Aug; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Magdalena; Jilles Joosten, Maria >> Wouters >> > >> > BAPTISMS OF 1671 >> > 4 Jun; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara; Jan; Jan Laurenszen Duyts, >> > Mayken >> > Laurens >> > >> > BAPTISMS OF 1673 >> > 9 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Abraham; Jean le Maistre, Susanna >> > Le >> > Maistre >> > >> > BAPTISMS OF 1675 >> > 14 Jul; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Thomas; Marie; Willem Van Leyden ??? >> > >> > BAPTISMS OF 1677 >> > 26 Sept; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Catharina; David Hendrickszen, >> > Tryntie >> > Hercks >> > >> > BAPTISMS OF 1680 >> > 3 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Isaac and Jacob (twins); Daniel >> > Terneur, >> > Hester de La Maistre, Marritie Pieters >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Pete Gonigam [mailto:gonigam@hotmail.com] >> > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 3:25 PM >> > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen van Bremen New Amsterdam >> > Baptismsfrom1639-1730 >> > >> > Please look for my post a few months ago about Pym Van Arnhem's >> > Netherland-based web page. >> > >> > Jan Dircks (Van Arnhem) isn't any of the many other Jan Dircks's during >> > the >> > period in New Amsterdam. In the first place most of them have their >> > own >> > documented histories, anyway. More important, though, look at the date >> of >> > baptism of Jan Dircks' first child, daughter Dirkje. Then look at the >> > date >> > >> > De Trouw reached port. Unless you resort to unneccessarily complicated >> > explanations, Sara Theunis was at least a month pregnant when when she >> > disembarked the ship which had been at sea for three months. Again, >> > unless >> > you resort to complicated ( indeed, wholly unlikely) explanations, Jan >> > Dircks is the guy who made her that way so he was on the ship, too. >> > >> > De Trouw and Gekruyste Hart both left Amsterdam within a day of each >> other >> > at the wrong time of the year for the voyage. However, it was the >> > right >> > time of year for WIC to send about 200 soldiers to New Amsterdam to >> > protect >> > against an anticipated attack by the British. >> > >> > There's no record I can find that soldiers were aboard the two ships >> > but >> > the >> > >> > ships had to have been carrying something. There are indications the >> New >> > Amsterdam garrison was considerably larger after the ships had arrived. >> > >> > Stuyvesant in Jan 1664 had sent a letter to the company requesting 400 >> > reinforcements but he was at the end of the news chain and the WIC >> > directors were at the front end. They could read the tea leaves as >> > well >> > as >> > he could and long before he even got a squint at them in any case. >> > >> > Don't ask me how Jan Dircks and Sara managed to do it on a little ship >> > packed with a company of soldiers in the middle of the Atlantic in >> Winter. >> > "Love laughs at locks," and a lot of other impediments if I recall the >> > days >> > of my youth correctly. (There's a remote chance the ships might have >> > dropped reinforcements at Guyana or the Antilles before swinging north >> > to >> > New Amsterdam; I haven't been able to figure out an average length of >> time >> > for a winter crossing because it's not clear if there ever were any >> > others.) >> > >> > There should be WIC and notarial records on all this. However they're >> > going >> > >> > to be in Dutch and they're going to be in the Netherlands. Assuming >> > they >> > survived 350 years of fires, floods, bugs, rats and God knows what else >> in >> > the first place. >> > >> > I'd really love to know who in New Amsterdam paid Sara's passage on >> > DeTrouw >> > (the only reason we know about it at all is that it wasn't paid at the >> > Amsterdam end) but I've never been able to find that. >> > >> > --pete >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> >> > To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 1:36 PM >> > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen van Bremen New Amsterdam Baptisms >> > from1639-1730 >> > >> > >> >> This is interesting. Note the name Tryntie again below. Jan Dircksen >> >> van >> >> Bremen's wife was Catharine Tryntie Dircksen (Andriesen). Does anyone >> >> think >> >> we may be looking at the same person in Jan Dircksen van Bremen and >> >> our >> >> Jan >> >> Dirckszen who was married to Sara Theunis? Was she his second wife? >> >> >> >> 1664 Dec 31; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt >> >> >> >> I don't think I have ever visited this page before of early baptismal >> >> records. Maybe I have? The all start to blend together. Lots of Jan >> >> Dirckszen hits at the below link. >> >> >> >> Susan >> >> >> >> http://longislandgenealogy.com/baptisms/baps.html >> >> >> >> New Amsterdam Baptisms from 1639-1730 >> >> These are complete to the end of 1730 as per Vol II of the >> >> Collections of the New York Genealogical and Biographical Society, >> 1901'. >> >> Originally appearing on the site of Robert L. Billard >> >> You can visit his site at >> >> http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~rbillard/index.htm >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Susan Claggett [mailto:claimtofame@claggett6.com] >> >> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:18 PM >> >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen van Bremen >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Immigrants to New Netherlands 1623-64 >> >> >> >> >> > >> http://www.family-crests.com/family-crest-coat-of-arms/surnames-7-7/immigran >> >> ts-to-new-netherlands-1623.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jan Dircksz from Bremen >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Scandinavian Immigrants in New York >> >> 1630-1674 >> >> >> >> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nycoloni/evjen/407evj.html >> >> >> >> Interesting description of Jan Dircksen from Bremen at above link >> >> midway >> >> down the page. His wife's name was Tryntie Anders. Just below Jan >> >> Dircksen >> >> is a Lucas Dircksen from Berg German married to Annetje Cornelis. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jan Van Bremen Dircksen's Details >> >> >> >> http://www.geni.com/people/Jan-Dircksen/5039393853980077705 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Birthdate: >> >> >> >> 1620 >> >> >> >> >> >> Birthplace: >> >> >> >> Bremen, Germany >> >> >> >> >> >> Death: >> >> >> >> Died September 15, 1668 in Albany, New York >> >> >> >> >> >> Occupation: >> >> >> >> IMMIGRATION: 1638 From Texel to New Amsterdam (New York City)HET WAPEN >> >> VAN >> >> NOORWEGEN ([THE SHIP] Arms of Norway)Sailed from the Texel about 12 >> >> May >> >> 1638, arrived New Amsterdam before 4 August1638 [as per the account >> >> submitted by Cornelis Melyn against Kili >> >> >> >> >> >> Added by: >> >> >> >> Brian <http://www.geni.com/people/Brian-Carrigan/311175475190004578> >> >> Carrigan on January 27, 2008 >> >> >> >> >> >> Managed by: >> >> >> >> Brian <http://www.geni.com/people/Brian-Carrigan/311175475190004578> >> >> Peter >> >> Carrigan >> >> >> >> >> >> Last Updated: >> >> >> >> October 26, 2008 >> >> >> >> Catharine Tryntie Dircksen (Andriesen)'s Family >> >> >> >> >> >> Immediate Family: >> >> >> >> Daughter of ? Andriesen >> >> <http://www.geni.com/people/-Andriesen/5039425191680040209> and ? >> >> <http://www.geni.com/people/-Andriesen/5039425205520040215> Andriesen >> >> Wife of Jan < >> http://www.geni.com/people/Jan-Dircksen/5039393853980077705> >> >> Dircksen >> >> Mother of Sara >> >> <http://www.geni.com/people/Sara-Gardenier/5039346657760037507> >> >> Gardenier >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Susan Claggett [mailto:claimtofame@claggett6.com] >> >> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 4:57 AM >> >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> >> Subject: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen van Bremen >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Has anyone come across this before? Could this be anything? Jan >> >> Dircksen >> >> >> >> van Bremen >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> http://www.archive.org/stream/16301897briefhis00rose/16301897briefhis00rose_ >> >> >> >> djvu.txt >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Preserved among the Fort Orange Records of date 1660, May >> >> >> >> 27, is the "petition of Jan Dircksen van Bremen, Albert James von >> >> >> >> Volekenburgh, et al., praying that Dutch as well as Indians brokers >> >> >> >> be employed to trade with the Indians," and among the names ap- >> >> >> >> pended is " Henderick Roseboom." The other party were for pro- >> >> >> >> hibiting all Europeans, " Christians," from treading the forest paths, >> >> >> >> thus excluding civilization. The first date after this is Sept. 13, >> >> >> >> 1662, when he purchased a house and lot "in the village of Bever- >> >> >> >> wyck, on the hill," and from this time on his name is found in num- >> >> >> >> erous authentic documents in the annals of Albany. The property >> >> >> >> mentioned was of historical interest, having been patented to Pieter >> >> >> >> Bronck. "As it stands with all that is fast by earth and nailed, >> >> >> >> and a? great as the patent thereof mentions," it was conveyed by >> >> >> >> Reyndert Pieterse (Bronck?) and Jacob Herick (Gerick), "for the >> >> >> >> sum of 550 guilders, payable in good merchantable beavers, at eight >> >> >> >> guilders apiece, in two installments, in July '63 and '64," the two >> >> >> >> "sellers" setting their "marks," but Rooseboom writing hi^ name >> >> >> >> with his own hand. November 16, of that year, he is surety with >> >> >> >> J. J. Schermerhooren for Jurriaen Janssen in the purchase of a house >> >> >> >> from the estate of Andries Herbertsen, for the benefit of the >> >> >> >> widow. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The exact situations of the ancient properties in Albany have >> >> >> >> been carefully ascertained and mapped, so that we can fix the pre- >> >> >> >> cise spot where this ancestor lived. It lay on the east side of Norlli >> >> >> >> Pearl street, northward of Maiden Lane. The palisades constitu- >> >> >> >> ting the northerly fortifications of the settlement passed through the >> >> >> >> middle of the land-plat, and the name of " Roseboom's gate" was >> >> >> >> o-iven to the exit which existed at that point, the "Burghers' block- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Okay if this is our Sara Teunis that arrived on De Trouw in 1664 when did Jan Dircksen come to New York? On my tree I have their marriage date as June 28 1664. Can't remember where this exact date came from but I picked it up from someone's tree or from the marriage record attached to Sara Theunis. June 28 does not correspond well with the birth of their first daughter Dirckje 31 Dec 1664; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt Since they did not travel together she may have been promised to him and came over to join him. Could Sara be a daughter of Pieter Teunisz? Could she have been a young widow? >Pieter Teunisz From Brunswijck, (Germany); is first mentioned under date of March 28, 1648, as having taken farm implements, houses and cattle, formerly used by him and Crijn Cornelisz, with him to Catskill. In 1652 and 1653, Pieter Teunisz and Jan Dircksz, from Bremen, were summoned to appear before the court to settle their accounts Could our Jan Dircksen be the son of Jan Dircksz from Bremen? Did our Jan Dircksen arrive aboard the De Trouw 1659 with his wife and 3 children? Did his first wife pass away and Jan Dircksen than became engaged to Sara Teunis and he sent for her and she arrived in 1664 on the De Trouw??? DE TROUW (THE FAITH) 1659 57 Jan Dircksen (Dircxsen), from Alckmaer 58 Mrs. Dircksen (wife) 59 - 61 three children Dircksen, ages 3/4, 8 and 15 years DE TROUW (THE FAITH) Passenger list below Sailed after 13 Feb. 1659 [JJ], on 12 Feb 1659 [NWI], arrived New Amsterdam before 5 May 1659 Names of special interest to me******* . Jan Woutersen, from Ravesteyn; shoemaker, and wife and daughter . Catalyntje Cranenburg; maiden . Jan van Coppenol, from Remsen; farmer and wife and 2 children . Matthys Roelofs, from Denmark,and wife and child . Sophia Roeloffs . Geertruy Jochems, from Hamburgh; Wife of Claes Claessen from Amersfoort, now in N. Netherland; and two children . Peter Corneliss, from Holsteyn; Labourer ******** . Peter Jacobs, from Holsteyn . Josyntje Verhagen, from Middelburg, and daughter . Saertge Hendricks, from Delft . Egbert Meynderts, from Amsterdam, and wife and child and servant . Jan Leurens Noorman and wife ******* . Harmen Coerten, from Voorhuysen and wife and 5 children . Magalantje Teunis, from Voorhuysen ******* . Feytje Dircks ******** . Gillis Jansen van Garder and Wife and four children ******** . Bastiaen Clement, from Doornick . Adriaen Fournoi, from Valenciennes . Jannetje Eyckers, from East Friesland . Joris Jorissen Townsen, from Redfort; mason . Nicholas Gillissen Marschal . Wouter gerritsen van Kootuyck . Jan Jacobsen, from Utrecht; farmer, and wife, mother and two children . Arent Francken van Iperen . Dennys Isacksen, from Wyck by Daurstede . Weyntje Martens van Gorehem . Vroutje Gerrits, wife of Cosyn Gerritsen; Wheelwright . Jan Dircksen, from Alckmaer and Wife and three children ********* . Nettert Jansen, from Embden . Epke Jacobs, from Harlingen; farmer and wife and five sons . Stoffiel Gerritsen from Laer [ENN: On May 2, 1660 Adriaen van laer, his brother, settles his account] . Jan Meynderts, from Iperen; farmer and wife . Jan Barents Ameshof, from Amsterdam . Symon Drune from Henegouw . Hendrick Harmensen, from Amsterdam . Evert Cornellissen from the vicinity of Amersfoort ********* . Laurens Jacobs van der Wielen . Jannetje Theunis van Ysseltstein ********** . Jan Roelofsen, van Naerden; farmer . Jacob Hendricks, from the Highland, and maidservant . Goossen van Twiller, from New-Kerk . Lawrens Janssen, from Wormer ********* . Jan Harmens from Amersfoort; Taylor, and wife and four children . Evert Marschal; glasier, from Amsterdam and wife and daughter . Boele Roelofsen, Joncker, and wife and four children, besides his Wife's sister and a boy Name: Sara Teunis Marriage Date: 1664 Marriage Place: New York City, New York Passengers aboard the De Trouw in 1664 . Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer . Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda . Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child [re NWI- child 8 years old] . Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children [re NWI children were 8,6,5 and 3] . Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum . Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child . Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child [re NWI child was 3 years old] . Sara Teunis We can add the following names as found in Abstracts from Notarial Documents in the Amsterdam Archives by Pim Nieuwenhuis published in New Netherland Connections in series Vol. 4:3,4; Vol. 5:1-3 . Daniel de Hondecoutre, bachelor, engaged by Pieter van den Beilcken merchant in Leyden for 4 years to trade on his behalf in New Netherland [NNC] . Norbardus Bodas, soldier from Antwerp, in service of WIC [NNC] Did Sara Teunis travel with Lysbet de Roode wife of John Saline? They did not refer to Sara Teunis as maiden. -----Original Message----- From: Linda Schwenn [mailto:schwel@comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 5:35 PM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: [VANNORMAN] Dirk Jansz I received the information below from Janice Walters in about 2006. I have not followed up on any of it and only send it on today because of all the current interest. I have NOT documented this information, but have found duplication of names on other Ancestry.com trees, including Susan Claggett's. Of special interest to me is the addition that he was an officer in the military, suggesting to me that soldiering was in the family. Another researcher wrote that Dirk was "an officer under William II, Prince of Oranje, Count of Nassau," perhaps an example of redundant error...or fact? *Individual Report for Dirk Jansz Van Arnhem VA*