Please look for my post a few months ago about Pym Van Arnhem's Netherland-based web page. Jan Dircks (Van Arnhem) isn't any of the many other Jan Dircks's during the period in New Amsterdam. In the first place most of them have their own documented histories, anyway. More important, though, look at the date of baptism of Jan Dircks' first child, daughter Dirkje. Then look at the date De Trouw reached port. Unless you resort to unneccessarily complicated explanations, Sara Theunis was at least a month pregnant when when she disembarked the ship which had been at sea for three months. Again, unless you resort to complicated ( indeed, wholly unlikely) explanations, Jan Dircks is the guy who made her that way so he was on the ship, too. De Trouw and Gekruyste Hart both left Amsterdam within a day of each other at the wrong time of the year for the voyage. However, it was the right time of year for WIC to send about 200 soldiers to New Amsterdam to protect against an anticipated attack by the British. There's no record I can find that soldiers were aboard the two ships but the ships had to have been carrying something. There are indications the New Amsterdam garrison was considerably larger after the ships had arrived. Stuyvesant in Jan 1664 had sent a letter to the company requesting 400 reinforcements but he was at the end of the news chain and the WIC directors were at the front end. They could read the tea leaves as well as he could and long before he even got a squint at them in any case. Don't ask me how Jan Dircks and Sara managed to do it on a little ship packed with a company of soldiers in the middle of the Atlantic in Winter. "Love laughs at locks," and a lot of other impediments if I recall the days of my youth correctly. (There's a remote chance the ships might have dropped reinforcements at Guyana or the Antilles before swinging north to New Amsterdam; I haven't been able to figure out an average length of time for a winter crossing because it's not clear if there ever were any others.) There should be WIC and notarial records on all this. However they're going to be in Dutch and they're going to be in the Netherlands. Assuming they survived 350 years of fires, floods, bugs, rats and God knows what else in the first place. I'd really love to know who in New Amsterdam paid Sara's passage on DeTrouw (the only reason we know about it at all is that it wasn't paid at the Amsterdam end) but I've never been able to find that. --pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen van Bremen New Amsterdam Baptisms from1639-1730 > This is interesting. Note the name Tryntie again below. Jan Dircksen van > Bremen's wife was Catharine Tryntie Dircksen (Andriesen). Does anyone > think > we may be looking at the same person in Jan Dircksen van Bremen and our > Jan > Dirckszen who was married to Sara Theunis? Was she his second wife? > > 1664 Dec 31; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt > > I don't think I have ever visited this page before of early baptismal > records. Maybe I have? The all start to blend together. Lots of Jan > Dirckszen hits at the below link. > > Susan > > http://longislandgenealogy.com/baptisms/baps.html > > New Amsterdam Baptisms from 1639-1730 > These are complete to the end of 1730 as per Vol II of the > Collections of the New York Genealogical and Biographical Society, 1901'. > Originally appearing on the site of Robert L. Billard > You can visit his site at > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~rbillard/index.htm > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Claggett [mailto:claimtofame@claggett6.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:18 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen van Bremen > > > > Immigrants to New Netherlands 1623-64 > > http://www.family-crests.com/family-crest-coat-of-arms/surnames-7-7/immigran > ts-to-new-netherlands-1623.html > > > > Jan Dircksz from Bremen > > > > Scandinavian Immigrants in New York > 1630-1674 > > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nycoloni/evjen/407evj.html > > Interesting description of Jan Dircksen from Bremen at above link midway > down the page. His wife's name was Tryntie Anders. Just below Jan > Dircksen > is a Lucas Dircksen from Berg German married to Annetje Cornelis. > > > > Jan Van Bremen Dircksen's Details > > http://www.geni.com/people/Jan-Dircksen/5039393853980077705 > > > > > Birthdate: > > 1620 > > > Birthplace: > > Bremen, Germany > > > Death: > > Died September 15, 1668 in Albany, New York > > > Occupation: > > IMMIGRATION: 1638 From Texel to New Amsterdam (New York City)HET WAPEN VAN > NOORWEGEN ([THE SHIP] Arms of Norway)Sailed from the Texel about 12 May > 1638, arrived New Amsterdam before 4 August1638 [as per the account > submitted by Cornelis Melyn against Kili > > > Added by: > > Brian <http://www.geni.com/people/Brian-Carrigan/311175475190004578> > Carrigan on January 27, 2008 > > > Managed by: > > Brian <http://www.geni.com/people/Brian-Carrigan/311175475190004578> > Peter > Carrigan > > > Last Updated: > > October 26, 2008 > > Catharine Tryntie Dircksen (Andriesen)'s Family > > > Immediate Family: > > Daughter of ? Andriesen > <http://www.geni.com/people/-Andriesen/5039425191680040209> and ? > <http://www.geni.com/people/-Andriesen/5039425205520040215> Andriesen > Wife of Jan <http://www.geni.com/people/Jan-Dircksen/5039393853980077705> > Dircksen > Mother of Sara > <http://www.geni.com/people/Sara-Gardenier/5039346657760037507> Gardenier > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Claggett [mailto:claimtofame@claggett6.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 4:57 AM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen van Bremen > > > > Has anyone come across this before? Could this be anything? Jan Dircksen > > van Bremen > > > > http://www.archive.org/stream/16301897briefhis00rose/16301897briefhis00rose_ > > djvu.txt > > > > Preserved among the Fort Orange Records of date 1660, May > > 27, is the "petition of Jan Dircksen van Bremen, Albert James von > > Volekenburgh, et al., praying that Dutch as well as Indians brokers > > be employed to trade with the Indians," and among the names ap- > > pended is " Henderick Roseboom." The other party were for pro- > > hibiting all Europeans, " Christians," from treading the forest paths, > > thus excluding civilization. The first date after this is Sept. 13, > > 1662, when he purchased a house and lot "in the village of Bever- > > wyck, on the hill," and from this time on his name is found in num- > > erous authentic documents in the annals of Albany. The property > > mentioned was of historical interest, having been patented to Pieter > > Bronck. "As it stands with all that is fast by earth and nailed, > > and a? great as the patent thereof mentions," it was conveyed by > > Reyndert Pieterse (Bronck?) and Jacob Herick (Gerick), "for the > > sum of 550 guilders, payable in good merchantable beavers, at eight > > guilders apiece, in two installments, in July '63 and '64," the two > > "sellers" setting their "marks," but Rooseboom writing hi^ name > > with his own hand. November 16, of that year, he is surety with > > J. J. Schermerhooren for Jurriaen Janssen in the purchase of a house > > from the estate of Andries Herbertsen, for the benefit of the > > widow. > > > > The exact situations of the ancient properties in Albany have > > been carefully ascertained and mapped, so that we can fix the pre- > > cise spot where this ancestor lived. It lay on the east side of Norlli > > Pearl street, northward of Maiden Lane. The palisades constitu- > > ting the northerly fortifications of the settlement passed through the > > middle of the land-plat, and the name of " Roseboom's gate" was > > o-iven to the exit which existed at that point, the "Burghers' block- > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Pete are we talking about the same sailing of the De Trouw? This reference says it arrived in 1659 and Dirckje was baptized in 1664. Susan Amsterdam, Netherlands to New Netherland (New York) sailed 12 February 1659 arrived May 1659 Captain: Jan Jansen Bestevaer De Trouw (In The Faith) sailed from Amsterdam February 12, 1659 under Captain Jan Jansen Bestevaer arriving at New Amsterdam May, 1659. http://www.immigrantships.net/v10/1600v10/detrouw16590500.html BAPTISMS OF 1664 31 Dec; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt BAPTISMS OF 1669 Aug; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Magdalena; Jilles Joosten, Maria Wouters BAPTISMS OF 1671 4 Jun; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara; Jan; Jan Laurenszen Duyts, Mayken Laurens BAPTISMS OF 1673 9 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Abraham; Jean le Maistre, Susanna Le Maistre BAPTISMS OF 1675 14 Jul; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Thomas; Marie; Willem Van Leyden ??? BAPTISMS OF 1677 26 Sept; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Catharina; David Hendrickszen, Tryntie Hercks BAPTISMS OF 1680 3 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Isaac and Jacob (twins); Daniel Terneur, Hester de La Maistre, Marritie Pieters -----Original Message----- From: Pete Gonigam [mailto:gonigam@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 3:25 PM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen van Bremen New Amsterdam Baptismsfrom1639-1730 Please look for my post a few months ago about Pym Van Arnhem's Netherland-based web page. Jan Dircks (Van Arnhem) isn't any of the many other Jan Dircks's during the period in New Amsterdam. In the first place most of them have their own documented histories, anyway. More important, though, look at the date of baptism of Jan Dircks' first child, daughter Dirkje. Then look at the date De Trouw reached port. Unless you resort to unneccessarily complicated explanations, Sara Theunis was at least a month pregnant when when she disembarked the ship which had been at sea for three months. Again, unless you resort to complicated ( indeed, wholly unlikely) explanations, Jan Dircks is the guy who made her that way so he was on the ship, too. De Trouw and Gekruyste Hart both left Amsterdam within a day of each other at the wrong time of the year for the voyage. However, it was the right time of year for WIC to send about 200 soldiers to New Amsterdam to protect against an anticipated attack by the British. There's no record I can find that soldiers were aboard the two ships but the ships had to have been carrying something. There are indications the New Amsterdam garrison was considerably larger after the ships had arrived. Stuyvesant in Jan 1664 had sent a letter to the company requesting 400 reinforcements but he was at the end of the news chain and the WIC directors were at the front end. They could read the tea leaves as well as he could and long before he even got a squint at them in any case. Don't ask me how Jan Dircks and Sara managed to do it on a little ship packed with a company of soldiers in the middle of the Atlantic in Winter. "Love laughs at locks," and a lot of other impediments if I recall the days of my youth correctly. (There's a remote chance the ships might have dropped reinforcements at Guyana or the Antilles before swinging north to New Amsterdam; I haven't been able to figure out an average length of time for a winter crossing because it's not clear if there ever were any others.) There should be WIC and notarial records on all this. However they're going to be in Dutch and they're going to be in the Netherlands. Assuming they survived 350 years of fires, floods, bugs, rats and God knows what else in the first place. I'd really love to know who in New Amsterdam paid Sara's passage on DeTrouw (the only reason we know about it at all is that it wasn't paid at the Amsterdam end) but I've never been able to find that. --pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen van Bremen New Amsterdam Baptisms from1639-1730 > This is interesting. Note the name Tryntie again below. Jan Dircksen van > Bremen's wife was Catharine Tryntie Dircksen (Andriesen). Does anyone > think > we may be looking at the same person in Jan Dircksen van Bremen and our > Jan > Dirckszen who was married to Sara Theunis? Was she his second wife? > > 1664 Dec 31; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt > > I don't think I have ever visited this page before of early baptismal > records. Maybe I have? The all start to blend together. Lots of Jan > Dirckszen hits at the below link. > > Susan > > http://longislandgenealogy.com/baptisms/baps.html > > New Amsterdam Baptisms from 1639-1730 > These are complete to the end of 1730 as per Vol II of the > Collections of the New York Genealogical and Biographical Society, 1901'. > Originally appearing on the site of Robert L. Billard > You can visit his site at > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~rbillard/index.htm > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Claggett [mailto:claimtofame@claggett6.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:18 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen van Bremen > > > > Immigrants to New Netherlands 1623-64 > > http://www.family-crests.com/family-crest-coat-of-arms/surnames-7-7/immigran > ts-to-new-netherlands-1623.html > > > > Jan Dircksz from Bremen > > > > Scandinavian Immigrants in New York > 1630-1674 > > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nycoloni/evjen/407evj.html > > Interesting description of Jan Dircksen from Bremen at above link midway > down the page. His wife's name was Tryntie Anders. Just below Jan > Dircksen > is a Lucas Dircksen from Berg German married to Annetje Cornelis. > > > > Jan Van Bremen Dircksen's Details > > http://www.geni.com/people/Jan-Dircksen/5039393853980077705 > > > > > Birthdate: > > 1620 > > > Birthplace: > > Bremen, Germany > > > Death: > > Died September 15, 1668 in Albany, New York > > > Occupation: > > IMMIGRATION: 1638 From Texel to New Amsterdam (New York City)HET WAPEN VAN > NOORWEGEN ([THE SHIP] Arms of Norway)Sailed from the Texel about 12 May > 1638, arrived New Amsterdam before 4 August1638 [as per the account > submitted by Cornelis Melyn against Kili > > > Added by: > > Brian <http://www.geni.com/people/Brian-Carrigan/311175475190004578> > Carrigan on January 27, 2008 > > > Managed by: > > Brian <http://www.geni.com/people/Brian-Carrigan/311175475190004578> > Peter > Carrigan > > > Last Updated: > > October 26, 2008 > > Catharine Tryntie Dircksen (Andriesen)'s Family > > > Immediate Family: > > Daughter of ? Andriesen > <http://www.geni.com/people/-Andriesen/5039425191680040209> and ? > <http://www.geni.com/people/-Andriesen/5039425205520040215> Andriesen > Wife of Jan <http://www.geni.com/people/Jan-Dircksen/5039393853980077705> > Dircksen > Mother of Sara > <http://www.geni.com/people/Sara-Gardenier/5039346657760037507> Gardenier > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Claggett [mailto:claimtofame@claggett6.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 4:57 AM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Jan Dircksen van Bremen > > > > Has anyone come across this before? Could this be anything? Jan Dircksen > > van Bremen > > > > http://www.archive.org/stream/16301897briefhis00rose/16301897briefhis00rose_ > > djvu.txt > > > > Preserved among the Fort Orange Records of date 1660, May > > 27, is the "petition of Jan Dircksen van Bremen, Albert James von > > Volekenburgh, et al., praying that Dutch as well as Indians brokers > > be employed to trade with the Indians," and among the names ap- > > pended is " Henderick Roseboom." The other party were for pro- > > hibiting all Europeans, " Christians," from treading the forest paths, > > thus excluding civilization. The first date after this is Sept. 13, > > 1662, when he purchased a house and lot "in the village of Bever- > > wyck, on the hill," and from this time on his name is found in num- > > erous authentic documents in the annals of Albany. The property > > mentioned was of historical interest, having been patented to Pieter > > Bronck. "As it stands with all that is fast by earth and nailed, > > and a? great as the patent thereof mentions," it was conveyed by > > Reyndert Pieterse (Bronck?) and Jacob Herick (Gerick), "for the > > sum of 550 guilders, payable in good merchantable beavers, at eight > > guilders apiece, in two installments, in July '63 and '64," the two > > "sellers" setting their "marks," but Rooseboom writing hi^ name > > with his own hand. November 16, of that year, he is surety with > > J. J. Schermerhooren for Jurriaen Janssen in the purchase of a house > > from the estate of Andries Herbertsen, for the benefit of the > > widow. > > > > The exact situations of the ancient properties in Albany have > > been carefully ascertained and mapped, so that we can fix the pre- > > cise spot where this ancestor lived. It lay on the east side of Norlli > > Pearl street, northward of Maiden Lane. The palisades constitu- > > ting the northerly fortifications of the settlement passed through the > > middle of the land-plat, and the name of " Roseboom's gate" was > > o-iven to the exit which existed at that point, the "Burghers' block- > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message