With respect to Arlene's comments: Yes, of course, there are errors not only in secondary source material but even in primary records. I've found a previously unknown major Van Tilburg error in History of Harlem and I, too, have a Van Arnam picture from 130 years ago with a notation someone added on the back that's simply impossible. I even agree with the adjuration that "we treat others research with respect". I apologize to Pim if I hurt his feelings. However, the original question was something like "is this stuff trustworthy" and the answer is still "No," at least insofar as the line of Jan Dircks and Sara Theunis is concerned. (Perhaps I should have emphasized that latter. I suspect there may be in the U.S. a handful of "stray" Van Arnhems who descend from other lines. I've stumbled over records of three much later immigrants from Holland surnamed Van Arnhem. I never tried to follow them, though. Van Norman surname is an entirely different nightmare, of course.) If that seems harsh it's because I outlined the problems with Pim's version of our line to him two years ago. I never received a reply and it's all still blazing on the Internet to lead people astray. Sure, we have to check and doublecheck everything we find but guess how long it takes to figure out Sara Theunis wasn't the daughter of Theunis Van Salee and never could have been in the first place. How much time is the right amount to devote to re-inventing the wheel? I view this instance as especially pernicious since Pim translated unreliable U.S. material into Dutch which for American researchers endows it with an accidental but nevertheless real aura of spurious authority. If for some reason Pim is really interested in the line of Jan Dircks and Sara Theunis I will offer, once again, to work with him on several areas of research that need to be done over there. --pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arlene Reeves" <arkretired@hotmail.com> To: "vannorman rootsweb" <vannorman@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] VANNORMAN Digest, Vol 5, Issue 89 > > Hi ALL, > > I have heard so many times "don't trust what you find on the internet"! > And that includes geneology info as well as medical advice, etc. I've > also heard the "VanArnhem Family in North America" book has many mistakes. > The internet and the book also have many accurate pieces of information. > I know from experience there are errors in many documents, including > official documents. I recently spoke with a village clerk who had birth > certificate request from a women who had born 4 children - her birth > certificate says she is a male, the clerk could not correct that info. > She was applying for Social Security, what a mess she had. And my > favorite story is a picture I have from my parents home with "Leon and his > grandfather" written on the back. Leon Joseph Van Norman is my father, he > was born May 22, 1905, his grandfather Oliver Augustus Van Norman died > October 15, 1904. The pic can't be who it says! > > > > I have made many assumptions in my research and I'm sure we all know what > assume means. I'm sure I have many errors in my personal Family Tree > Maker program. All information is important and might lead to the > accurate account of our heritage. > > > > Most important is that we treat others research with respect. That does > not mean we can't challange or correct each other as we all need the help! > > Arlene > > PS: Do you think we should ask Pim if there is a living male in the family > that would do the DNA test? > >> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:28:09 +0200 >> From: wc.van.arnhem@xmsnet.nl >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] VANNORMAN Digest, Vol 5, Issue 89 >> >> Hi people in the States, >> >> Like I have written in the past, I used the next sources for my >> US-branch of the family Van Arnhem (and Pete I'm absolutely familiar >> with the meaning of the name!!). Since I haven't had time to work >> evidence of the sources on the US-branch, there has been no mail from >> me. (My focus is on the Dutch-branches and those are all verified and >> trustworthy). So for the US-branch on my site I used these sources: >> http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~vnfa/families.html >> http://gedcomindex.com/towns/nlge004.html >> http://www.ristenbatt.com/genealogy >> http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=joanfran&id=I00239] >> >> If those Us-sources are not reliable, then you are right that my info is >> indeed also not reliable. If you have more and/or better info, I'll be >> glad to receive is. >> Greetings from the Netherlands. >> Pim van Arnhem >> >> Op 10-7-2010 9:02, vannorman-request@rootsweb.com schreef: >> > >> > Today's Topics: >> > >> > 1. Genealogy of van Arnhem by Pim van Arnhem (Susan Claggett) >> > 2. Re: Genealogy of van Arnhem by Pim van Arnhem (Pete Gonigam) >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > Message: 1 >> > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:01:52 -0500 >> > From: "Susan Claggett"<claimtofame@claggett6.com> >> > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Genealogy of van Arnhem by Pim van Arnhem >> > To:<vannorman@rootsweb.com> >> > Message-ID:<D0FDA67EDF7F4081AC24607EAC94627E@vantk1o0kgylz7> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> > >> > Has anyone seen this website? And if so is the information believed to >> > be >> > accurate? Thanks >> > >> > >> > >> > Susan >> > >> > >> > >> > http://home.xmsnet.nl/pimonline/tak-arnhem-VS.html >> > >> > >> > >> > Genealogy of van Arnhem by Pim van Arnhem >> > >> > The genealogy of Dirk Jansz van Arnhem begins in Arnhem , but already >> > in the >> > second generation son in January Dircksen travels from Arnhem to the >> > United >> > States of America . We are therefore faced with one branch primarily in >> > the >> > U.S. developed . >> > >> > Fascinating is the number of name changes: of Aernhem, of Aernam, >> > d'Arenberg, Vanorman, of Aarnem, of Aernum, of ornamental, Vann Orman, >> > by >> > Arnam, of Arnum, of Ornum, Norman >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > >> > Message: 2 >> > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 12:05:54 -0500 >> > From: "Pete Gonigam"<gonigam@hotmail.com> >> > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Genealogy of van Arnhem by Pim van Arnhem >> > To:<vannorman@rootsweb.com> >> > Message-ID:<BLU0-SMTP5877106E60418C9CAD733FABB50@phx.gbl> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> > reply-type=original >> > >> > I hadn't seen his site but this guy popped up on the board a few times >> > a >> > couple of years ago all hot and bothered that he'd found "U.S. Van >> > Arnhems". >> > Even though he's Dutch it hadn't occurred to him that Van Arnhem just >> > means >> > "from Arnhem" and lotsa people were in the old days. (There was a Henry >> > "from Arnhem" in Brooklyn 1742 or so who had no connection with our >> > line; >> > I've never figured out if he died or took a different surname.) Anyway, >> > I >> > told Pim I could suggest some fruitful lines of research to pursue in >> > Netherlands if he wanted to research U.S. Van Arnhems but he never >> > answered >> > back. >> > >> > The site as far as U.S. Van Arnhems (etc.) is concerned is utterly >> > unreliable. >> > >> > There's nothing other than "Van Arnhem" to connect our Jan Dircks with >> > the >> > parents listed on the site (and several reasons to think they're the >> > wrong >> > ones.) Jan Dirks wasn't on the "Broken Heart", rather (no records, only >> > logic) "The Faith" with Sara Theunis. Sara was NOT the daughter of >> > Theunis >> > Van Sallee. (Records show that woman married someone else and died in >> > Massachussets, I think.) Etc., etc., etc. >> > >> > I don't have a copy of it, but I think one way or another, this guy's >> > site >> > derives from "Van Arnhems in North America" which we've proved in many >> > ways >> > is itself unreliable. >> > >> > --pete >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Susan Claggett"<claimtofame@claggett6.com> >> > To:<vannorman@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 11:01 AM >> > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Genealogy of van Arnhem by Pim van Arnhem >> > >> > >> > >> >> Has anyone seen this website? And if so is the information believed to >> >> be >> >> accurate? Thanks >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Susan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://home.xmsnet.nl/pimonline/tak-arnhem-VS.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Genealogy of van Arnhem by Pim van Arnhem >> >> >> >> The genealogy of Dirk Jansz van Arnhem begins in Arnhem , but already >> >> in >> >> the >> >> second generation son in January Dircksen travels from Arnhem to the >> >> United >> >> States of America . We are therefore faced with one branch primarily >> >> in >> >> the >> >> U.S. developed . >> >> >> >> Fascinating is the number of name changes: of Aernhem, of Aernam, >> >> d'Arenberg, Vanorman, of Aarnem, of Aernum, of ornamental, Vann Orman, >> >> by >> >> Arnam, of Arnum, of Ornum, Norman >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > >> > To contact the VANNORMAN list administrator, send an email to >> > VANNORMAN-admin@rootsweb.com. >> > >> > To post a message to the VANNORMAN mailing list, send an email to >> > VANNORMAN@rootsweb.com. >> > >> > __________________________________________________________ >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com >> > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the >> > body of the >> > email with no additional text. >> > >> > >> > End of VANNORMAN Digest, Vol 5, Issue 89 >> > **************************************** >> > >> > >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your > inbox. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >