Hi Pete, I would appreciate hearing what you know about Jan Dircks and Sara Theunis. Thank you in advance! Arlene > From: gonigam@hotmail.com > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 23:28:37 -0500 > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] VANNORMAN Digest, Vol 5, Issue 89 > > With respect to Arlene's comments: > > Yes, of course, there are errors not only in secondary source material but > even in primary records. I've found a previously unknown major Van Tilburg > error in History of Harlem and I, too, have a Van Arnam picture from 130 > years ago with a notation someone added on the back that's simply > impossible. > > I even agree with the adjuration that "we treat others research with > respect". I apologize to Pim if I hurt his feelings. However, the original > question was something like "is this stuff trustworthy" and the answer is > still "No," at least insofar as the line of Jan Dircks and Sara Theunis is > concerned. > > (Perhaps I should have emphasized that latter. I suspect there may be in > the U.S. a handful of "stray" Van Arnhems who descend from other lines. > I've stumbled over records of three much later immigrants from Holland > surnamed Van Arnhem. I never tried to follow them, though. Van Norman > surname is an entirely different nightmare, of course.) > > If that seems harsh it's because I outlined the problems with Pim's version > of our line to him two years ago. I never received a reply and it's all > still blazing on the Internet to lead people astray. Sure, we have to check > and doublecheck everything we find but guess how long it takes to figure out > Sara Theunis wasn't the daughter of Theunis Van Salee and never could have > been in the first place. How much time is the right amount to devote to > re-inventing the wheel? > > I view this instance as especially pernicious since Pim translated > unreliable U.S. material into Dutch which for American researchers endows it > with an accidental but nevertheless real aura of spurious authority. > > If for some reason Pim is really interested in the line of Jan Dircks and > Sara Theunis I will offer, once again, to work with him on several areas of > research that need to be done over there. > > --pete > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arlene Reeves" <arkretired@hotmail.com> > To: "vannorman rootsweb" <vannorman@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 7:37 PM > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] VANNORMAN Digest, Vol 5, Issue 89 > > > > > > Hi ALL, > > > > I have heard so many times "don't trust what you find on the internet"! > > And that includes geneology info as well as medical advice, etc. I've > > also heard the "VanArnhem Family in North America" book has many mistakes. > > The internet and the book also have many accurate pieces of information. > > I know from experience there are errors in many documents, including > > official documents. I recently spoke with a village clerk who had birth > > certificate request from a women who had born 4 children - her birth > > certificate says she is a male, the clerk could not correct that info. > > She was applying for Social Security, what a mess she had. And my > > favorite story is a picture I have from my parents home with "Leon and his > > grandfather" written on the back. Leon Joseph Van Norman is my father, he > > was born May 22, 1905, his grandfather Oliver Augustus Van Norman died > > October 15, 1904. The pic can't be who it says! > > > > > > > > I have made many assumptions in my research and I'm sure we all know what > > assume means. I'm sure I have many errors in my personal Family Tree > > Maker program. All information is important and might lead to the > > accurate account of our heritage. > > > > > > > > Most important is that we treat others research with respect. That does > > not mean we can't challange or correct each other as we all need the help! > > > > Arlene > > > > PS: Do you think we should ask Pim if there is a living male in the family > > that would do the DNA test? > > > >> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:28:09 +0200 > >> From: wc.van.arnhem@xmsnet.nl > >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] VANNORMAN Digest, Vol 5, Issue 89 > >> > >> Hi people in the States, > >> > >> Like I have written in the past, I used the next sources for my > >> US-branch of the family Van Arnhem (and Pete I'm absolutely familiar > >> with the meaning of the name!!). Since I haven't had time to work > >> evidence of the sources on the US-branch, there has been no mail from > >> me. (My focus is on the Dutch-branches and those are all verified and > >> trustworthy). So for the US-branch on my site I used these sources: > >> http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~vnfa/families.html > >> http://gedcomindex.com/towns/nlge004.html > >> http://www.ristenbatt.com/genealogy > >> http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=joanfran&id=I00239] > >> > >> If those Us-sources are not reliable, then you are right that my info is > >> indeed also not reliable. If you have more and/or better info, I'll be > >> glad to receive is. > >> Greetings from the Netherlands. > >> Pim van Arnhem > >> > >> Op 10-7-2010 9:02, vannorman-request@rootsweb.com schreef: > >> > > >> > Today's Topics: > >> > > >> > 1. Genealogy of van Arnhem by Pim van Arnhem (Susan Claggett) > >> > 2. Re: Genealogy of van Arnhem by Pim van Arnhem (Pete Gonigam) > >> > > >> > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > >> > Message: 1 > >> > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:01:52 -0500 > >> > From: "Susan Claggett"<claimtofame@claggett6.com> > >> > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Genealogy of van Arnhem by Pim van Arnhem > >> > To:<vannorman@rootsweb.com> > >> > Message-ID:<D0FDA67EDF7F4081AC24607EAC94627E@vantk1o0kgylz7> > >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >> > > >> > Has anyone seen this website? And if so is the information believed to > >> > be > >> > accurate? Thanks > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Susan > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > http://home.xmsnet.nl/pimonline/tak-arnhem-VS.html > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Genealogy of van Arnhem by Pim van Arnhem > >> > > >> > The genealogy of Dirk Jansz van Arnhem begins in Arnhem , but already > >> > in the > >> > second generation son in January Dircksen travels from Arnhem to the > >> > United > >> > States of America . We are therefore faced with one branch primarily in > >> > the > >> > U.S. developed . > >> > > >> > Fascinating is the number of name changes: of Aernhem, of Aernam, > >> > d'Arenberg, Vanorman, of Aarnem, of Aernum, of ornamental, Vann Orman, > >> > by > >> > Arnam, of Arnum, of Ornum, Norman > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------ > >> > > >> > Message: 2 > >> > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 12:05:54 -0500 > >> > From: "Pete Gonigam"<gonigam@hotmail.com> > >> > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Genealogy of van Arnhem by Pim van Arnhem > >> > To:<vannorman@rootsweb.com> > >> > Message-ID:<BLU0-SMTP5877106E60418C9CAD733FABB50@phx.gbl> > >> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > >> > reply-type=original > >> > > >> > I hadn't seen his site but this guy popped up on the board a few times > >> > a > >> > couple of years ago all hot and bothered that he'd found "U.S. Van > >> > Arnhems". > >> > Even though he's Dutch it hadn't occurred to him that Van Arnhem just > >> > means > >> > "from Arnhem" and lotsa people were in the old days. (There was a Henry > >> > "from Arnhem" in Brooklyn 1742 or so who had no connection with our > >> > line; > >> > I've never figured out if he died or took a different surname.) Anyway, > >> > I > >> > told Pim I could suggest some fruitful lines of research to pursue in > >> > Netherlands if he wanted to research U.S. Van Arnhems but he never > >> > answered > >> > back. > >> > > >> > The site as far as U.S. Van Arnhems (etc.) is concerned is utterly > >> > unreliable. > >> > > >> > There's nothing other than "Van Arnhem" to connect our Jan Dircks with > >> > the > >> > parents listed on the site (and several reasons to think they're the > >> > wrong > >> > ones.) Jan Dirks wasn't on the "Broken Heart", rather (no records, only > >> > logic) "The Faith" with Sara Theunis. Sara was NOT the daughter of > >> > Theunis > >> > Van Sallee. (Records show that woman married someone else and died in > >> > Massachussets, I think.) Etc., etc., etc. > >> > > >> > I don't have a copy of it, but I think one way or another, this guy's > >> > site > >> > derives from "Van Arnhems in North America" which we've proved in many > >> > ways > >> > is itself unreliable. > >> > > >> > --pete > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Susan Claggett"<claimtofame@claggett6.com> > >> > To:<vannorman@rootsweb.com> > >> > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 11:01 AM > >> > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Genealogy of van Arnhem by Pim van Arnhem > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >> Has anyone seen this website? And if so is the information believed to > >> >> be > >> >> accurate? Thanks > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Susan > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> http://home.xmsnet.nl/pimonline/tak-arnhem-VS.html > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Genealogy of van Arnhem by Pim van Arnhem > >> >> > >> >> The genealogy of Dirk Jansz van Arnhem begins in Arnhem , but already > >> >> in > >> >> the > >> >> second generation son in January Dircksen travels from Arnhem to the > >> >> United > >> >> States of America . We are therefore faced with one branch primarily > >> >> in > >> >> the > >> >> U.S. developed . > >> >> > >> >> Fascinating is the number of name changes: of Aernhem, of Aernam, > >> >> d'Arenberg, Vanorman, of Aarnem, of Aernum, of ornamental, Vann Orman, > >> >> by > >> >> Arnam, of Arnum, of Ornum, Norman > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ------------------------------- > >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------ > >> > > >> > To contact the VANNORMAN list administrator, send an email to > >> > VANNORMAN-admin@rootsweb.com. > >> > > >> > To post a message to the VANNORMAN mailing list, send an email to > >> > VANNORMAN@rootsweb.com. > >> > > >> > __________________________________________________________ > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com > >> > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the > >> > body of the > >> > email with no additional text. > >> > > >> > > >> > End of VANNORMAN Digest, Vol 5, Issue 89 > >> > **************************************** > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your > > inbox. > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5