John you have probably seen this before: Date: Tue Nov 12 08:31:23 1996 Name: John VanOrman E- mail: john.vanorman@qm.caled onia.k12.mi.us> Address: Surname of Immigrant: VANARNHEM Given name(s) of Immigrant: Jan Dirksen Origin of Immigrant: Netherlands, possibly Arnhem Name of Ship: ? Arrival Date: before 1654 Immigrant's Date & Place of Birth: 1625-1645 possibly Arnhem, Netherlands Immigrant's Date & Place of Death: ? Immigrant's Spouse: Sarah Theunis Source of Information: Baptismal records Immigrant's Children: Dirckse b. 1664, Magdalin b. 1669, Jan b. 1671, Abraham b.1673, Maria b. 1675, Catharine b. 1677, Isaac and Jacob (twins) b 1680. Notes: Jan Dirksen VANARNEHM"s third child, Jan Jansz VANARNEHM married Hester Fonda of Albany NY on 14 October 1696. -------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 3:19 AM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource I've been doing genealogy for about 6 months or so. My tree is somewhat skimpy, but I so much prefer spending time researching than tediously copying names from a book. My VO line if from NY to MI. Rogers then went to WI. Most of my people are in PA, or spread all over. Where I got the information that he was a soldier for the Dutch West India CO, I don't know. That may have been just an assumption in some book or other (New Amsterdam being run by the Dutch West India Co.). Why he came -- that's the real question, and one ever so rarely answered. Names and dates and facts, and none of it means a dang thing without the why. Your guess is a good as mine. He was probably young, since he was unmarried. Probably came from a poor (or somewhat poor) family. Being a soldier was a low-class profession, except officers. Presumably he wasn't an officer, or we'd have some record of it. With the recent end of the Eighty Years' War, have to wonder... Did his father fight? Did he simply follow his father's profession, and was shipped to New Amsterdam, or did he choose to come? Or maybe he wanted adventure, and soldiering in New Amsterdam was adventure on adventure. Or it could have been simple necissity - anything to pay the bills, as it were. Sadly, unless he left some long-lost memoirs, we'll never know. I would think that the Eighty Years Wars had a polarizing effect on society. After the war, Dutch trading skyrocketed, and they dominated trade for awhile. But trading benefits the middle and upper classes; bankers, merchants, ship owners. The lower class probably didn't fair so well, having taken the brunt of the fighting, as in any war. I found this; might be our Sara Theunis: ship DE TROUW (FAITH) January 1664 Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child [re NWI- child 8 years old] Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children [re NWI children were 8,6,5 and 3] Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child [re NWI child was 3 years old] Sara Teunis Unfortunatly it gives no place of origin for Sara Teunis. However, the timing is right, as she marries Jan Dirksz in June (she's not the 3yo child listed above her). I haven't been able to find any other Sara Theunis' in a passenger list. It may be possible map out events for the other Sara Theunis' living in New Amsterdam, and possibly match it to our Sara Theunis by process of elimination. I was able to find only one Jan Dirksz, and it was clearly not a match. I believe that the only realistic ways to trace Jan Dirksz in the Netherlands would be to either find him in a passenger list (with hopefully more information), or to find military records. I working a few other leads on Sara, but so far nothing. On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 1:57 AM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com>wrote: > Mind boggling to me but very interesting. Why do you think Jan Dirksz came > to New Amsterdam? Did he come as a paid soldier? Thanks > > Susan > > -----Original Message----- > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:48 AM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > As a side note to my previous message, countries were also defined to some > extent as land owned by the king or royal family, or who owed them fielty. > However, the ruling family could inherit lands outside their contigious > bounderies, similiar to King George II inheriting the whole of England. > This > was also true of the Netherlands. The Hapsbergs had several large holdings > outside their contiguous bounderies. Unifying disperate holdings by > various monarchies played heavily in the Eighty Years' War. > > On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:33 AM, <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: > > > John Rogers (Rogers -> Harriet Estelle VO -> Sardine Stone -> Abraham -> > > Abraham -> Lucas -> Isaac Jansz etc.) I'm in the US. > > > > I don't believe they are Scandinavian (that is Holland, Finland, Norway). > > They are almost certainly "from" the Netherlands, and there's no reason I > > know of that to believe they were born elsewhere. > > > > Since it's on topic of modern last names, don't forget that our > > understanding of countries is also a modern construct. Belguim and the > > Netherlands have not only seen upheaval in modern times, with map lines > > redrawn after World War I and World War II, but the Netherlands was > > not unified until 1540 under the Hapsburgs. However, being a small > country, > > there were constant struggles against Belgium, Prussia, and even Spain. > > During the Eighty Year' War (1568-1648), they were split in two. Since > this > > is in the time-frame of Jan Dirksz, in terms of political bounderies, it > > would be necessary to specify north or south Netherlands. Going backwards > in > > time, they were comprised of several "countries", and before that a > > multitude city-states, confederacies, and fiefdoms in the middle ages. > > On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Susan Claggett < > > claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > > > >> > >> jroguetech@gmail.com what is your name? You have been sharing lots of > >> great > >> info with us but I don't know who you are by name. Are you in the US or > >> in > >> Holland? Thanks for your contributions! > >> > >> Susan > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > >> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:00 AM > >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > >> > >> Last names weren't formally adopted (in New Amsterdam) until 1687, and > >> weren't in common use for much longer, even into the 1800's. > >> http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/pat.shtml > >> > >> Most records show Jan Dirksz as Jan Dirckszen > >> http://www.altlaw.com/edball/dutchbap.htm > >> (baptism date, father, mother, child, witness, witness) > >> Aug; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Magdalena; Jilles Joosten, Maria > Wouters > >> 4 Jun; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara; Jan; Jan Laurenszen Duyts, Mayken > >> Laurens > >> 9 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Abraham; Jean le Maistre, Susanna Le > >> Maistre > >> 26 Sept; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Catharina; David Hendrickszen, > >> Tryntie > >> Hercks > >> 3 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Isaac and Jacob (twins); Daniel > >> Terneur, > >> Hester de La > >> Maistre, Marritie Pieters > >> 31 Dec; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt > >> (?) 14 Jul; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Thomas; Marie; Willem Van Leyden (I have > >> Marie listed as a child, but unsourced beyond this record.) > >> [This particuliar site is not easily sourced, since it's one long list; > >> there's a several sites with New Amsterdam baptisms and marriages. If > >> anyone > >> needs this info with years, I can provide urls.] > >> > >> Among others, also listed are Jan Dirckszen Straetman or > >> Straetmaecker (Street maker), Jan Dirckszen de Meyer/Mayer, Jan Dircxen > op > >> Hoboken, Jan Dirckszen van Bremen, and Jan Dirckszen van Amsterdam. > There > >> are also at least two, possibly three Sara Theunis'. > >> > >> Here's his marriage record, as being "van Arnhem". In addition to what > >> Pete > >> says, since he was a soldier, it's that much less reliable as a birth > >> place. > >> (I have a soldier of the Dutch West India Co., but I have no source.) > Sara > >> Theunis is listed as from Rotterdam. Possibly more reliable, but > Rotterdam > >> being a port city, it may have been more convient using her > >> (possible) departure place than her actual home. Lot's of times, I've > >> seem numerous immigrant ancester of mine using "New York" or "New > Jersey" > >> in > >> census records, rather than actual original country of origin. Note that > >> the > >> patronym system also applies to Sara - "Sara Theuniszen", or "daughter > of > >> Theunis". > >> > >> Soort bron: Trouwboek > >> Kerkgemeente: Collegiate Church of New York > >> Proclamatie: 28-06-1664 > >> Gezindte: NDG > >> Plaats: Nieuw Amsterdam-New York > >> Bruidegom: Jan Dirckszen > >> Geboorteplaats bruidegom: Arnhem > >> Bruid: Sara Theuniszen > >> Geboorteplaats bruid: Rotterdam > >> Jongedochter bruid: J > >> Vorige partner bruidegom: > >> Vorige partner bruid: > >> Nadere informatie: De bruidegom is soldaat > >> > >> Translation: > >> Source Type: Wedding Book > >> Congregation: Collegiate Church of New York > >> Proclamation: 06/28/1664 > >> Belief: NDG > >> Hometown: New Amsterdam-New York > >> Groom: January Dircksz > >> Hometown groom: Arnhem > >> Bride: Sara Theunisz > >> Hometown wedding: Rotterdam > >> Young Daughter bride: J > >> Previous partner groom: > >> Previous partner bride > >> Further information: The groom is a soldier > >> [ > >> > >> > > http://bhic.nl/site/pagina.php?id=193&actie=akte&cid=cTExgRKQ2HdQx1CjKpnEFMD > >> > hX&xtr=21967397< > http://bhic.nl/site/pagina.php?id=193&actie=akte&cid=cTExgRK > Q2HdQx1CjKpnEFMDhX&xtr=21967397> > >> ] > >> > >> On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Pete Gonigam <gonigam@hotmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > May I point out again that "Van Arnhem", at least as it applies to the > >> > records of Jan Dircks Van Arnhem who married Sarah Theunis, is clearly > a > >> > descriptor, not a surname. It means he was "from" Arnhem; perhaps > born > >> > there, perhaps raised there, perhaps lived there for a while before he > >> came > >> > to New Amsterdam. > >> > > >> > Half a dozen bits collectively suggest to me he probably wasn't born > in > >> > Arnhem. Among them was a scan several years ago through the > Netherlands > >> > indices suggested by jroguetech in which I could find no one who > looked > >> > very > >> > much like our Jan Dircks. (Didn't find a Sarah Theunis, either.) > >> > > >> > Jan Dirck's children didn't begin using the Van Arnhem surname until > >> around > >> > 1695, 14 years after the last record that mentions their father (who > was > >> > still using the presumed patronymic "Dircksen"). In other words, for > >> more > >> > than 30 years after 1664 the family was NOT named Van Arnhem. > >> > > >> > (Please don't ask why they eventually adopted a surname their father > >> never > >> > seems to have used. It's another of many things about the early > family > >> > that > >> > don't seem to make any sense.) > >> > > >> > --pete > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> > >> > To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> > >> > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 9:50 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > I'm having trouble figuring out how to use this website. Could you > >> post > >> > > the > >> > > results for the Van Arnhem's to this list? Thanks > >> > > > >> > > Susan Van Orman Claggett > >> > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > >> > > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:43 PM > >> > > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > >> > > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > >> > > > >> > > Here's a resource that shows some Van Arnhem's in Holland, going > back > >> as > >> > > far > >> > > as the 1600's. > >> > > > >> > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=10004 > >> > > > >> > > This has resources for New Amsterdam, New Holland: > >> > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=193 > >> > > (enter "Nieuw Amsterdam-New York" as Plaats) > >> > > > >> > > Does anyone have other resources for tracing the Van Arnhem's in > >> Holland? > >> > > > >> > > ------------------------------- > >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the > >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > ------------------------------- > >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the > >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I've been doing genealogy for about 6 months or so. My tree is somewhat skimpy, but I so much prefer spending time researching than tediously copying names from a book. My VO line if from NY to MI. Rogers then went to WI. Most of my people are in PA, or spread all over. Where I got the information that he was a soldier for the Dutch West India CO, I don't know. That may have been just an assumption in some book or other (New Amsterdam being run by the Dutch West India Co.). Why he came -- that's the real question, and one ever so rarely answered. Names and dates and facts, and none of it means a dang thing without the why. Your guess is a good as mine. He was probably young, since he was unmarried. Probably came from a poor (or somewhat poor) family. Being a soldier was a low-class profession, except officers. Presumably he wasn't an officer, or we'd have some record of it. With the recent end of the Eighty Years' War, have to wonder... Did his father fight? Did he simply follow his father's profession, and was shipped to New Amsterdam, or did he choose to come? Or maybe he wanted adventure, and soldiering in New Amsterdam was adventure on adventure. Or it could have been simple necissity - anything to pay the bills, as it were. Sadly, unless he left some long-lost memoirs, we'll never know. I would think that the Eighty Years Wars had a polarizing effect on society. After the war, Dutch trading skyrocketed, and they dominated trade for awhile. But trading benefits the middle and upper classes; bankers, merchants, ship owners. The lower class probably didn't fair so well, having taken the brunt of the fighting, as in any war. I found this; might be our Sara Theunis: ship DE TROUW (FAITH) January 1664 Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child [re NWI- child 8 years old] Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children [re NWI children were 8,6,5 and 3] Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child [re NWI child was 3 years old] Sara Teunis Unfortunatly it gives no place of origin for Sara Teunis. However, the timing is right, as she marries Jan Dirksz in June (she's not the 3yo child listed above her). I haven't been able to find any other Sara Theunis' in a passenger list. It may be possible map out events for the other Sara Theunis' living in New Amsterdam, and possibly match it to our Sara Theunis by process of elimination. I was able to find only one Jan Dirksz, and it was clearly not a match. I believe that the only realistic ways to trace Jan Dirksz in the Netherlands would be to either find him in a passenger list (with hopefully more information), or to find military records. I working a few other leads on Sara, but so far nothing. On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 1:57 AM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com>wrote: > Mind boggling to me but very interesting. Why do you think Jan Dirksz came > to New Amsterdam? Did he come as a paid soldier? Thanks > > Susan > > -----Original Message----- > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:48 AM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > As a side note to my previous message, countries were also defined to some > extent as land owned by the king or royal family, or who owed them fielty. > However, the ruling family could inherit lands outside their contigious > bounderies, similiar to King George II inheriting the whole of England. > This > was also true of the Netherlands. The Hapsbergs had several large holdings > outside their contiguous bounderies. Unifying disperate holdings by > various monarchies played heavily in the Eighty Years' War. > > On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:33 AM, <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: > > > John Rogers (Rogers -> Harriet Estelle VO -> Sardine Stone -> Abraham -> > > Abraham -> Lucas -> Isaac Jansz etc.) I'm in the US. > > > > I don't believe they are Scandinavian (that is Holland, Finland, Norway). > > They are almost certainly "from" the Netherlands, and there's no reason I > > know of that to believe they were born elsewhere. > > > > Since it's on topic of modern last names, don't forget that our > > understanding of countries is also a modern construct. Belguim and the > > Netherlands have not only seen upheaval in modern times, with map lines > > redrawn after World War I and World War II, but the Netherlands was > > not unified until 1540 under the Hapsburgs. However, being a small > country, > > there were constant struggles against Belgium, Prussia, and even Spain. > > During the Eighty Year' War (1568-1648), they were split in two. Since > this > > is in the time-frame of Jan Dirksz, in terms of political bounderies, it > > would be necessary to specify north or south Netherlands. Going backwards > in > > time, they were comprised of several "countries", and before that a > > multitude city-states, confederacies, and fiefdoms in the middle ages. > > On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Susan Claggett < > > claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > > > >> > >> jroguetech@gmail.com what is your name? You have been sharing lots of > >> great > >> info with us but I don't know who you are by name. Are you in the US or > >> in > >> Holland? Thanks for your contributions! > >> > >> Susan > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > >> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:00 AM > >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > >> > >> Last names weren't formally adopted (in New Amsterdam) until 1687, and > >> weren't in common use for much longer, even into the 1800's. > >> http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/pat.shtml > >> > >> Most records show Jan Dirksz as Jan Dirckszen > >> http://www.altlaw.com/edball/dutchbap.htm > >> (baptism date, father, mother, child, witness, witness) > >> Aug; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Magdalena; Jilles Joosten, Maria > Wouters > >> 4 Jun; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara; Jan; Jan Laurenszen Duyts, Mayken > >> Laurens > >> 9 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Abraham; Jean le Maistre, Susanna Le > >> Maistre > >> 26 Sept; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Catharina; David Hendrickszen, > >> Tryntie > >> Hercks > >> 3 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Isaac and Jacob (twins); Daniel > >> Terneur, > >> Hester de La > >> Maistre, Marritie Pieters > >> 31 Dec; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt > >> (?) 14 Jul; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Thomas; Marie; Willem Van Leyden (I have > >> Marie listed as a child, but unsourced beyond this record.) > >> [This particuliar site is not easily sourced, since it's one long list; > >> there's a several sites with New Amsterdam baptisms and marriages. If > >> anyone > >> needs this info with years, I can provide urls.] > >> > >> Among others, also listed are Jan Dirckszen Straetman or > >> Straetmaecker (Street maker), Jan Dirckszen de Meyer/Mayer, Jan Dircxen > op > >> Hoboken, Jan Dirckszen van Bremen, and Jan Dirckszen van Amsterdam. > There > >> are also at least two, possibly three Sara Theunis'. > >> > >> Here's his marriage record, as being "van Arnhem". In addition to what > >> Pete > >> says, since he was a soldier, it's that much less reliable as a birth > >> place. > >> (I have a soldier of the Dutch West India Co., but I have no source.) > Sara > >> Theunis is listed as from Rotterdam. Possibly more reliable, but > Rotterdam > >> being a port city, it may have been more convient using her > >> (possible) departure place than her actual home. Lot's of times, I've > >> seem numerous immigrant ancester of mine using "New York" or "New > Jersey" > >> in > >> census records, rather than actual original country of origin. Note that > >> the > >> patronym system also applies to Sara - "Sara Theuniszen", or "daughter > of > >> Theunis". > >> > >> Soort bron: Trouwboek > >> Kerkgemeente: Collegiate Church of New York > >> Proclamatie: 28-06-1664 > >> Gezindte: NDG > >> Plaats: Nieuw Amsterdam-New York > >> Bruidegom: Jan Dirckszen > >> Geboorteplaats bruidegom: Arnhem > >> Bruid: Sara Theuniszen > >> Geboorteplaats bruid: Rotterdam > >> Jongedochter bruid: J > >> Vorige partner bruidegom: > >> Vorige partner bruid: > >> Nadere informatie: De bruidegom is soldaat > >> > >> Translation: > >> Source Type: Wedding Book > >> Congregation: Collegiate Church of New York > >> Proclamation: 06/28/1664 > >> Belief: NDG > >> Hometown: New Amsterdam-New York > >> Groom: January Dircksz > >> Hometown groom: Arnhem > >> Bride: Sara Theunisz > >> Hometown wedding: Rotterdam > >> Young Daughter bride: J > >> Previous partner groom: > >> Previous partner bride > >> Further information: The groom is a soldier > >> [ > >> > >> > > http://bhic.nl/site/pagina.php?id=193&actie=akte&cid=cTExgRKQ2HdQx1CjKpnEFMD > >> > hX&xtr=21967397< > http://bhic.nl/site/pagina.php?id=193&actie=akte&cid=cTExgRK > Q2HdQx1CjKpnEFMDhX&xtr=21967397> > >> ] > >> > >> On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Pete Gonigam <gonigam@hotmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > May I point out again that "Van Arnhem", at least as it applies to the > >> > records of Jan Dircks Van Arnhem who married Sarah Theunis, is clearly > a > >> > descriptor, not a surname. It means he was "from" Arnhem; perhaps > born > >> > there, perhaps raised there, perhaps lived there for a while before he > >> came > >> > to New Amsterdam. > >> > > >> > Half a dozen bits collectively suggest to me he probably wasn't born > in > >> > Arnhem. Among them was a scan several years ago through the > Netherlands > >> > indices suggested by jroguetech in which I could find no one who > looked > >> > very > >> > much like our Jan Dircks. (Didn't find a Sarah Theunis, either.) > >> > > >> > Jan Dirck's children didn't begin using the Van Arnhem surname until > >> around > >> > 1695, 14 years after the last record that mentions their father (who > was > >> > still using the presumed patronymic "Dircksen"). In other words, for > >> more > >> > than 30 years after 1664 the family was NOT named Van Arnhem. > >> > > >> > (Please don't ask why they eventually adopted a surname their father > >> never > >> > seems to have used. It's another of many things about the early > family > >> > that > >> > don't seem to make any sense.) > >> > > >> > --pete > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> > >> > To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> > >> > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 9:50 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > I'm having trouble figuring out how to use this website. Could you > >> post > >> > > the > >> > > results for the Van Arnhem's to this list? Thanks > >> > > > >> > > Susan Van Orman Claggett > >> > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > >> > > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:43 PM > >> > > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > >> > > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > >> > > > >> > > Here's a resource that shows some Van Arnhem's in Holland, going > back > >> as > >> > > far > >> > > as the 1600's. > >> > > > >> > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=10004 > >> > > > >> > > This has resources for New Amsterdam, New Holland: > >> > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=193 > >> > > (enter "Nieuw Amsterdam-New York" as Plaats) > >> > > > >> > > Does anyone have other resources for tracing the Van Arnhem's in > >> Holland? > >> > > > >> > > ------------------------------- > >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the > >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > ------------------------------- > >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the > >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Mind boggling to me but very interesting. Why do you think Jan Dirksz came to New Amsterdam? Did he come as a paid soldier? Thanks Susan -----Original Message----- From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:48 AM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource As a side note to my previous message, countries were also defined to some extent as land owned by the king or royal family, or who owed them fielty. However, the ruling family could inherit lands outside their contigious bounderies, similiar to King George II inheriting the whole of England. This was also true of the Netherlands. The Hapsbergs had several large holdings outside their contiguous bounderies. Unifying disperate holdings by various monarchies played heavily in the Eighty Years' War. On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:33 AM, <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: > John Rogers (Rogers -> Harriet Estelle VO -> Sardine Stone -> Abraham -> > Abraham -> Lucas -> Isaac Jansz etc.) I'm in the US. > > I don't believe they are Scandinavian (that is Holland, Finland, Norway). > They are almost certainly "from" the Netherlands, and there's no reason I > know of that to believe they were born elsewhere. > > Since it's on topic of modern last names, don't forget that our > understanding of countries is also a modern construct. Belguim and the > Netherlands have not only seen upheaval in modern times, with map lines > redrawn after World War I and World War II, but the Netherlands was > not unified until 1540 under the Hapsburgs. However, being a small country, > there were constant struggles against Belgium, Prussia, and even Spain. > During the Eighty Year' War (1568-1648), they were split in two. Since this > is in the time-frame of Jan Dirksz, in terms of political bounderies, it > would be necessary to specify north or south Netherlands. Going backwards in > time, they were comprised of several "countries", and before that a > multitude city-states, confederacies, and fiefdoms in the middle ages. > On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Susan Claggett < > claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > >> >> jroguetech@gmail.com what is your name? You have been sharing lots of >> great >> info with us but I don't know who you are by name. Are you in the US or >> in >> Holland? Thanks for your contributions! >> >> Susan >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:00 AM >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource >> >> Last names weren't formally adopted (in New Amsterdam) until 1687, and >> weren't in common use for much longer, even into the 1800's. >> http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/pat.shtml >> >> Most records show Jan Dirksz as Jan Dirckszen >> http://www.altlaw.com/edball/dutchbap.htm >> (baptism date, father, mother, child, witness, witness) >> Aug; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Magdalena; Jilles Joosten, Maria Wouters >> 4 Jun; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara; Jan; Jan Laurenszen Duyts, Mayken >> Laurens >> 9 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Abraham; Jean le Maistre, Susanna Le >> Maistre >> 26 Sept; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Catharina; David Hendrickszen, >> Tryntie >> Hercks >> 3 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Isaac and Jacob (twins); Daniel >> Terneur, >> Hester de La >> Maistre, Marritie Pieters >> 31 Dec; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt >> (?) 14 Jul; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Thomas; Marie; Willem Van Leyden (I have >> Marie listed as a child, but unsourced beyond this record.) >> [This particuliar site is not easily sourced, since it's one long list; >> there's a several sites with New Amsterdam baptisms and marriages. If >> anyone >> needs this info with years, I can provide urls.] >> >> Among others, also listed are Jan Dirckszen Straetman or >> Straetmaecker (Street maker), Jan Dirckszen de Meyer/Mayer, Jan Dircxen op >> Hoboken, Jan Dirckszen van Bremen, and Jan Dirckszen van Amsterdam. There >> are also at least two, possibly three Sara Theunis'. >> >> Here's his marriage record, as being "van Arnhem". In addition to what >> Pete >> says, since he was a soldier, it's that much less reliable as a birth >> place. >> (I have a soldier of the Dutch West India Co., but I have no source.) Sara >> Theunis is listed as from Rotterdam. Possibly more reliable, but Rotterdam >> being a port city, it may have been more convient using her >> (possible) departure place than her actual home. Lot's of times, I've >> seem numerous immigrant ancester of mine using "New York" or "New Jersey" >> in >> census records, rather than actual original country of origin. Note that >> the >> patronym system also applies to Sara - "Sara Theuniszen", or "daughter of >> Theunis". >> >> Soort bron: Trouwboek >> Kerkgemeente: Collegiate Church of New York >> Proclamatie: 28-06-1664 >> Gezindte: NDG >> Plaats: Nieuw Amsterdam-New York >> Bruidegom: Jan Dirckszen >> Geboorteplaats bruidegom: Arnhem >> Bruid: Sara Theuniszen >> Geboorteplaats bruid: Rotterdam >> Jongedochter bruid: J >> Vorige partner bruidegom: >> Vorige partner bruid: >> Nadere informatie: De bruidegom is soldaat >> >> Translation: >> Source Type: Wedding Book >> Congregation: Collegiate Church of New York >> Proclamation: 06/28/1664 >> Belief: NDG >> Hometown: New Amsterdam-New York >> Groom: January Dircksz >> Hometown groom: Arnhem >> Bride: Sara Theunisz >> Hometown wedding: Rotterdam >> Young Daughter bride: J >> Previous partner groom: >> Previous partner bride >> Further information: The groom is a soldier >> [ >> >> http://bhic.nl/site/pagina.php?id=193&actie=akte&cid=cTExgRKQ2HdQx1CjKpnEFMD >> hX&xtr=21967397<http://bhic.nl/site/pagina.php?id=193&actie=akte&cid=cTExgRK Q2HdQx1CjKpnEFMDhX&xtr=21967397> >> ] >> >> On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Pete Gonigam <gonigam@hotmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> > May I point out again that "Van Arnhem", at least as it applies to the >> > records of Jan Dircks Van Arnhem who married Sarah Theunis, is clearly a >> > descriptor, not a surname. It means he was "from" Arnhem; perhaps born >> > there, perhaps raised there, perhaps lived there for a while before he >> came >> > to New Amsterdam. >> > >> > Half a dozen bits collectively suggest to me he probably wasn't born in >> > Arnhem. Among them was a scan several years ago through the Netherlands >> > indices suggested by jroguetech in which I could find no one who looked >> > very >> > much like our Jan Dircks. (Didn't find a Sarah Theunis, either.) >> > >> > Jan Dirck's children didn't begin using the Van Arnhem surname until >> around >> > 1695, 14 years after the last record that mentions their father (who was >> > still using the presumed patronymic "Dircksen"). In other words, for >> more >> > than 30 years after 1664 the family was NOT named Van Arnhem. >> > >> > (Please don't ask why they eventually adopted a surname their father >> never >> > seems to have used. It's another of many things about the early family >> > that >> > don't seem to make any sense.) >> > >> > --pete >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> >> > To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 9:50 PM >> > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource >> > >> > >> > > >> > > I'm having trouble figuring out how to use this website. Could you >> post >> > > the >> > > results for the Van Arnhem's to this list? Thanks >> > > >> > > Susan Van Orman Claggett >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> > > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:43 PM >> > > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> > > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource >> > > >> > > Here's a resource that shows some Van Arnhem's in Holland, going back >> as >> > > far >> > > as the 1600's. >> > > >> > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=10004 >> > > >> > > This has resources for New Amsterdam, New Holland: >> > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=193 >> > > (enter "Nieuw Amsterdam-New York" as Plaats) >> > > >> > > Does anyone have other resources for tracing the Van Arnhem's in >> Holland? >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Nice to meet you John Rogers. I'm not sure how long you have been on the VN Rootsweb mailing list. I believe I first noticed your posts in September. We have several really nice and knowledgeable family researchers on here. They have helped me a lot these past few years. It seems like you have been studying the family for quite awhile too. I just started my research a few years ago. I am Susan Van Orman Claggett 1961 born in IN and my father is Frederick Harold Van Orman III born 1916 in IN, Frederick Harold Van Orman II 1884 in MI, Frederick Harold Van Orman 1860 MI, William Henry Van Orman 1832 in NY , Isaac Van (N)Orman 1794 in NY who was married to Cynthia Hatch. This much I know for sure. I believe that my Isaac Van (N)Orman 1794 NY was a son of Isaac VN 1764 Pownal, VT who was married to Hannah Brown 1769 RI ,Luykas 1738 NY, Isaac Jansz 1704 NY. But I am still trying to prove this theory. I have my family tree on Ancestry.com under The Claggett Family tree. If you have any recommendations for me to research I would love to know about them. I believe we are from the same early New York Van Orman line. Is your family from Michigan, New York? Regards, Susan -----Original Message----- From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:33 AM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource John Rogers (Rogers -> Harriet Estelle VO -> Sardine Stone -> Abraham -> Abraham -> Lucas -> Isaac Jansz etc.) I'm in the US. I don't believe they are Scandinavian (that is Holland, Finland, Norway). They are almost certainly "from" the Netherlands, and there's no reason I know of that to believe they were born elsewhere. Since it's on topic of modern last names, don't forget that our understanding of countries is also a modern construct. Belguim and the Netherlands have not only seen upheaval in modern times, with map lines redrawn after World War I and World War II, but the Netherlands was not unified until 1540 under the Hapsburgs. However, being a small country, there were constant struggles against Belgium, Prussia, and even Spain. During the Eighty Year' War (1568-1648), they were split in two. Since this is in the time-frame of Jan Dirksz, in terms of political bounderies, it would be necessary to specify north or south Netherlands. Going backwards in time, they were comprised of several "countries", and before that a multitude city-states, confederacies, and fiefdoms in the middle ages. On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com>wrote: > > jroguetech@gmail.com what is your name? You have been sharing lots of > great > info with us but I don't know who you are by name. Are you in the US or in > Holland? Thanks for your contributions! > > Susan > -----Original Message----- > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:00 AM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > Last names weren't formally adopted (in New Amsterdam) until 1687, and > weren't in common use for much longer, even into the 1800's. > http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/pat.shtml > > Most records show Jan Dirksz as Jan Dirckszen > http://www.altlaw.com/edball/dutchbap.htm > (baptism date, father, mother, child, witness, witness) > Aug; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Magdalena; Jilles Joosten, Maria Wouters > 4 Jun; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara; Jan; Jan Laurenszen Duyts, Mayken > Laurens > 9 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Abraham; Jean le Maistre, Susanna Le > Maistre > 26 Sept; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Catharina; David Hendrickszen, > Tryntie > Hercks > 3 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Isaac and Jacob (twins); Daniel > Terneur, > Hester de La > Maistre, Marritie Pieters > 31 Dec; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt > (?) 14 Jul; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Thomas; Marie; Willem Van Leyden (I have > Marie listed as a child, but unsourced beyond this record.) > [This particuliar site is not easily sourced, since it's one long list; > there's a several sites with New Amsterdam baptisms and marriages. If > anyone > needs this info with years, I can provide urls.] > > Among others, also listed are Jan Dirckszen Straetman or > Straetmaecker (Street maker), Jan Dirckszen de Meyer/Mayer, Jan Dircxen op > Hoboken, Jan Dirckszen van Bremen, and Jan Dirckszen van Amsterdam. There > are also at least two, possibly three Sara Theunis'. > > Here's his marriage record, as being "van Arnhem". In addition to what Pete > says, since he was a soldier, it's that much less reliable as a birth > place. > (I have a soldier of the Dutch West India Co., but I have no source.) Sara > Theunis is listed as from Rotterdam. Possibly more reliable, but Rotterdam > being a port city, it may have been more convient using her > (possible) departure place than her actual home. Lot's of times, I've > seem numerous immigrant ancester of mine using "New York" or "New Jersey" > in > census records, rather than actual original country of origin. Note that > the > patronym system also applies to Sara - "Sara Theuniszen", or "daughter of > Theunis". > > Soort bron: Trouwboek > Kerkgemeente: Collegiate Church of New York > Proclamatie: 28-06-1664 > Gezindte: NDG > Plaats: Nieuw Amsterdam-New York > Bruidegom: Jan Dirckszen > Geboorteplaats bruidegom: Arnhem > Bruid: Sara Theuniszen > Geboorteplaats bruid: Rotterdam > Jongedochter bruid: J > Vorige partner bruidegom: > Vorige partner bruid: > Nadere informatie: De bruidegom is soldaat > > Translation: > Source Type: Wedding Book > Congregation: Collegiate Church of New York > Proclamation: 06/28/1664 > Belief: NDG > Hometown: New Amsterdam-New York > Groom: January Dircksz > Hometown groom: Arnhem > Bride: Sara Theunisz > Hometown wedding: Rotterdam > Young Daughter bride: J > Previous partner groom: > Previous partner bride > Further information: The groom is a soldier > [ > > http://bhic.nl/site/pagina.php?id=193&actie=akte&cid=cTExgRKQ2HdQx1CjKpnEFMD > hX&xtr=21967397<http://bhic.nl/site/pagina.php?id=193&actie=akte&cid=cTExgRK Q2HdQx1CjKpnEFMDhX&xtr=21967397> > ] > > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Pete Gonigam <gonigam@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > May I point out again that "Van Arnhem", at least as it applies to the > > records of Jan Dircks Van Arnhem who married Sarah Theunis, is clearly a > > descriptor, not a surname. It means he was "from" Arnhem; perhaps born > > there, perhaps raised there, perhaps lived there for a while before he > came > > to New Amsterdam. > > > > Half a dozen bits collectively suggest to me he probably wasn't born in > > Arnhem. Among them was a scan several years ago through the Netherlands > > indices suggested by jroguetech in which I could find no one who looked > > very > > much like our Jan Dircks. (Didn't find a Sarah Theunis, either.) > > > > Jan Dirck's children didn't begin using the Van Arnhem surname until > around > > 1695, 14 years after the last record that mentions their father (who was > > still using the presumed patronymic "Dircksen"). In other words, for more > > than 30 years after 1664 the family was NOT named Van Arnhem. > > > > (Please don't ask why they eventually adopted a surname their father > never > > seems to have used. It's another of many things about the early family > > that > > don't seem to make any sense.) > > > > --pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> > > To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 9:50 PM > > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > > > > > > > > > I'm having trouble figuring out how to use this website. Could you > post > > > the > > > results for the Van Arnhem's to this list? Thanks > > > > > > Susan Van Orman Claggett > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:43 PM > > > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > > > > > Here's a resource that shows some Van Arnhem's in Holland, going back > as > > > far > > > as the 1600's. > > > > > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=10004 > > > > > > This has resources for New Amsterdam, New Holland: > > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=193 > > > (enter "Nieuw Amsterdam-New York" as Plaats) > > > > > > Does anyone have other resources for tracing the Van Arnhem's in > Holland? > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

As a side note to my previous message, countries were also defined to some extent as land owned by the king or royal family, or who owed them fielty. However, the ruling family could inherit lands outside their contigious bounderies, similiar to King George II inheriting the whole of England. This was also true of the Netherlands. The Hapsbergs had several large holdings outside their contiguous bounderies. Unifying disperate holdings by various monarchies played heavily in the Eighty Years' War. On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:33 AM, <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: > John Rogers (Rogers -> Harriet Estelle VO -> Sardine Stone -> Abraham -> > Abraham -> Lucas -> Isaac Jansz etc.) I'm in the US. > > I don't believe they are Scandinavian (that is Holland, Finland, Norway). > They are almost certainly "from" the Netherlands, and there's no reason I > know of that to believe they were born elsewhere. > > Since it's on topic of modern last names, don't forget that our > understanding of countries is also a modern construct. Belguim and the > Netherlands have not only seen upheaval in modern times, with map lines > redrawn after World War I and World War II, but the Netherlands was > not unified until 1540 under the Hapsburgs. However, being a small country, > there were constant struggles against Belgium, Prussia, and even Spain. > During the Eighty Year' War (1568–1648), they were split in two. Since this > is in the time-frame of Jan Dirksz, in terms of political bounderies, it > would be necessary to specify north or south Netherlands. Going backwards in > time, they were comprised of several "countries", and before that a > multitude city-states, confederacies, and fiefdoms in the middle ages. > On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Susan Claggett < > claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > >> >> jroguetech@gmail.com what is your name? You have been sharing lots of >> great >> info with us but I don't know who you are by name. Are you in the US or >> in >> Holland? Thanks for your contributions! >> >> Susan >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:00 AM >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource >> >> Last names weren't formally adopted (in New Amsterdam) until 1687, and >> weren't in common use for much longer, even into the 1800's. >> http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/pat.shtml >> >> Most records show Jan Dirksz as Jan Dirckszen >> http://www.altlaw.com/edball/dutchbap.htm >> (baptism date, father, mother, child, witness, witness) >> Aug; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Magdalena; Jilles Joosten, Maria Wouters >> 4 Jun; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara; Jan; Jan Laurenszen Duyts, Mayken >> Laurens >> 9 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Abraham; Jean le Maistre, Susanna Le >> Maistre >> 26 Sept; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Catharina; David Hendrickszen, >> Tryntie >> Hercks >> 3 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Isaac and Jacob (twins); Daniel >> Terneur, >> Hester de La >> Maistre, Marritie Pieters >> 31 Dec; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt >> (?) 14 Jul; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Thomas; Marie; Willem Van Leyden (I have >> Marie listed as a child, but unsourced beyond this record.) >> [This particuliar site is not easily sourced, since it's one long list; >> there's a several sites with New Amsterdam baptisms and marriages. If >> anyone >> needs this info with years, I can provide urls.] >> >> Among others, also listed are Jan Dirckszen Straetman or >> Straetmaecker (Street maker), Jan Dirckszen de Meyer/Mayer, Jan Dircxen op >> Hoboken, Jan Dirckszen van Bremen, and Jan Dirckszen van Amsterdam. There >> are also at least two, possibly three Sara Theunis'. >> >> Here's his marriage record, as being "van Arnhem". In addition to what >> Pete >> says, since he was a soldier, it's that much less reliable as a birth >> place. >> (I have a soldier of the Dutch West India Co., but I have no source.) Sara >> Theunis is listed as from Rotterdam. Possibly more reliable, but Rotterdam >> being a port city, it may have been more convient using her >> (possible) departure place than her actual home. Lot's of times, I've >> seem numerous immigrant ancester of mine using "New York" or "New Jersey" >> in >> census records, rather than actual original country of origin. Note that >> the >> patronym system also applies to Sara - "Sara Theuniszen", or "daughter of >> Theunis". >> >> Soort bron: Trouwboek >> Kerkgemeente: Collegiate Church of New York >> Proclamatie: 28-06-1664 >> Gezindte: NDG >> Plaats: Nieuw Amsterdam-New York >> Bruidegom: Jan Dirckszen >> Geboorteplaats bruidegom: Arnhem >> Bruid: Sara Theuniszen >> Geboorteplaats bruid: Rotterdam >> Jongedochter bruid: J >> Vorige partner bruidegom: >> Vorige partner bruid: >> Nadere informatie: De bruidegom is soldaat >> >> Translation: >> Source Type: Wedding Book >> Congregation: Collegiate Church of New York >> Proclamation: 06/28/1664 >> Belief: NDG >> Hometown: New Amsterdam-New York >> Groom: January Dircksz >> Hometown groom: Arnhem >> Bride: Sara Theunisz >> Hometown wedding: Rotterdam >> Young Daughter bride: J >> Previous partner groom: >> Previous partner bride >> Further information: The groom is a soldier >> [ >> >> http://bhic.nl/site/pagina.php?id=193&actie=akte&cid=cTExgRKQ2HdQx1CjKpnEFMD >> hX&xtr=21967397<http://bhic.nl/site/pagina.php?id=193&actie=akte&cid=cTExgRKQ2HdQx1CjKpnEFMDhX&xtr=21967397> >> ] >> >> On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Pete Gonigam <gonigam@hotmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> > May I point out again that "Van Arnhem", at least as it applies to the >> > records of Jan Dircks Van Arnhem who married Sarah Theunis, is clearly a >> > descriptor, not a surname. It means he was "from" Arnhem; perhaps born >> > there, perhaps raised there, perhaps lived there for a while before he >> came >> > to New Amsterdam. >> > >> > Half a dozen bits collectively suggest to me he probably wasn't born in >> > Arnhem. Among them was a scan several years ago through the Netherlands >> > indices suggested by jroguetech in which I could find no one who looked >> > very >> > much like our Jan Dircks. (Didn't find a Sarah Theunis, either.) >> > >> > Jan Dirck's children didn't begin using the Van Arnhem surname until >> around >> > 1695, 14 years after the last record that mentions their father (who was >> > still using the presumed patronymic "Dircksen"). In other words, for >> more >> > than 30 years after 1664 the family was NOT named Van Arnhem. >> > >> > (Please don't ask why they eventually adopted a surname their father >> never >> > seems to have used. It's another of many things about the early family >> > that >> > don't seem to make any sense.) >> > >> > --pete >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> >> > To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 9:50 PM >> > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource >> > >> > >> > > >> > > I'm having trouble figuring out how to use this website. Could you >> post >> > > the >> > > results for the Van Arnhem's to this list? Thanks >> > > >> > > Susan Van Orman Claggett >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> > > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:43 PM >> > > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> > > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource >> > > >> > > Here's a resource that shows some Van Arnhem's in Holland, going back >> as >> > > far >> > > as the 1600's. >> > > >> > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=10004 >> > > >> > > This has resources for New Amsterdam, New Holland: >> > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=193 >> > > (enter "Nieuw Amsterdam-New York" as Plaats) >> > > >> > > Does anyone have other resources for tracing the Van Arnhem's in >> Holland? >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >

John Rogers (Rogers -> Harriet Estelle VO -> Sardine Stone -> Abraham -> Abraham -> Lucas -> Isaac Jansz etc.) I'm in the US. I don't believe they are Scandinavian (that is Holland, Finland, Norway). They are almost certainly "from" the Netherlands, and there's no reason I know of that to believe they were born elsewhere. Since it's on topic of modern last names, don't forget that our understanding of countries is also a modern construct. Belguim and the Netherlands have not only seen upheaval in modern times, with map lines redrawn after World War I and World War II, but the Netherlands was not unified until 1540 under the Hapsburgs. However, being a small country, there were constant struggles against Belgium, Prussia, and even Spain. During the Eighty Year' War (1568–1648), they were split in two. Since this is in the time-frame of Jan Dirksz, in terms of political bounderies, it would be necessary to specify north or south Netherlands. Going backwards in time, they were comprised of several "countries", and before that a multitude city-states, confederacies, and fiefdoms in the middle ages. On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com>wrote: > > jroguetech@gmail.com what is your name? You have been sharing lots of > great > info with us but I don't know who you are by name. Are you in the US or in > Holland? Thanks for your contributions! > > Susan > -----Original Message----- > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:00 AM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > Last names weren't formally adopted (in New Amsterdam) until 1687, and > weren't in common use for much longer, even into the 1800's. > http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/pat.shtml > > Most records show Jan Dirksz as Jan Dirckszen > http://www.altlaw.com/edball/dutchbap.htm > (baptism date, father, mother, child, witness, witness) > Aug; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Magdalena; Jilles Joosten, Maria Wouters > 4 Jun; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara; Jan; Jan Laurenszen Duyts, Mayken > Laurens > 9 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Abraham; Jean le Maistre, Susanna Le > Maistre > 26 Sept; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Catharina; David Hendrickszen, > Tryntie > Hercks > 3 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Isaac and Jacob (twins); Daniel > Terneur, > Hester de La > Maistre, Marritie Pieters > 31 Dec; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt > (?) 14 Jul; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Thomas; Marie; Willem Van Leyden (I have > Marie listed as a child, but unsourced beyond this record.) > [This particuliar site is not easily sourced, since it's one long list; > there's a several sites with New Amsterdam baptisms and marriages. If > anyone > needs this info with years, I can provide urls.] > > Among others, also listed are Jan Dirckszen Straetman or > Straetmaecker (Street maker), Jan Dirckszen de Meyer/Mayer, Jan Dircxen op > Hoboken, Jan Dirckszen van Bremen, and Jan Dirckszen van Amsterdam. There > are also at least two, possibly three Sara Theunis'. > > Here's his marriage record, as being "van Arnhem". In addition to what Pete > says, since he was a soldier, it's that much less reliable as a birth > place. > (I have a soldier of the Dutch West India Co., but I have no source.) Sara > Theunis is listed as from Rotterdam. Possibly more reliable, but Rotterdam > being a port city, it may have been more convient using her > (possible) departure place than her actual home. Lot's of times, I've > seem numerous immigrant ancester of mine using "New York" or "New Jersey" > in > census records, rather than actual original country of origin. Note that > the > patronym system also applies to Sara - "Sara Theuniszen", or "daughter of > Theunis". > > Soort bron: Trouwboek > Kerkgemeente: Collegiate Church of New York > Proclamatie: 28-06-1664 > Gezindte: NDG > Plaats: Nieuw Amsterdam-New York > Bruidegom: Jan Dirckszen > Geboorteplaats bruidegom: Arnhem > Bruid: Sara Theuniszen > Geboorteplaats bruid: Rotterdam > Jongedochter bruid: J > Vorige partner bruidegom: > Vorige partner bruid: > Nadere informatie: De bruidegom is soldaat > > Translation: > Source Type: Wedding Book > Congregation: Collegiate Church of New York > Proclamation: 06/28/1664 > Belief: NDG > Hometown: New Amsterdam-New York > Groom: January Dircksz > Hometown groom: Arnhem > Bride: Sara Theunisz > Hometown wedding: Rotterdam > Young Daughter bride: J > Previous partner groom: > Previous partner bride > Further information: The groom is a soldier > [ > > http://bhic.nl/site/pagina.php?id=193&actie=akte&cid=cTExgRKQ2HdQx1CjKpnEFMD > hX&xtr=21967397<http://bhic.nl/site/pagina.php?id=193&actie=akte&cid=cTExgRKQ2HdQx1CjKpnEFMDhX&xtr=21967397> > ] > > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Pete Gonigam <gonigam@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > May I point out again that "Van Arnhem", at least as it applies to the > > records of Jan Dircks Van Arnhem who married Sarah Theunis, is clearly a > > descriptor, not a surname. It means he was "from" Arnhem; perhaps born > > there, perhaps raised there, perhaps lived there for a while before he > came > > to New Amsterdam. > > > > Half a dozen bits collectively suggest to me he probably wasn't born in > > Arnhem. Among them was a scan several years ago through the Netherlands > > indices suggested by jroguetech in which I could find no one who looked > > very > > much like our Jan Dircks. (Didn't find a Sarah Theunis, either.) > > > > Jan Dirck's children didn't begin using the Van Arnhem surname until > around > > 1695, 14 years after the last record that mentions their father (who was > > still using the presumed patronymic "Dircksen"). In other words, for more > > than 30 years after 1664 the family was NOT named Van Arnhem. > > > > (Please don't ask why they eventually adopted a surname their father > never > > seems to have used. It's another of many things about the early family > > that > > don't seem to make any sense.) > > > > --pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> > > To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 9:50 PM > > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > > > > > > > > > I'm having trouble figuring out how to use this website. Could you > post > > > the > > > results for the Van Arnhem's to this list? Thanks > > > > > > Susan Van Orman Claggett > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:43 PM > > > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > > > > > Here's a resource that shows some Van Arnhem's in Holland, going back > as > > > far > > > as the 1600's. > > > > > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=10004 > > > > > > This has resources for New Amsterdam, New Holland: > > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=193 > > > (enter "Nieuw Amsterdam-New York" as Plaats) > > > > > > Does anyone have other resources for tracing the Van Arnhem's in > Holland? > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

jroguetech@gmail.com what is your name? You have been sharing lots of great info with us but I don't know who you are by name. Are you in the US or in Holland? Thanks for your contributions! Susan -----Original Message----- From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:00 AM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource Last names weren't formally adopted (in New Amsterdam) until 1687, and weren't in common use for much longer, even into the 1800's. http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/pat.shtml Most records show Jan Dirksz as Jan Dirckszen http://www.altlaw.com/edball/dutchbap.htm (baptism date, father, mother, child, witness, witness) Aug; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Magdalena; Jilles Joosten, Maria Wouters 4 Jun; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara; Jan; Jan Laurenszen Duyts, Mayken Laurens 9 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Abraham; Jean le Maistre, Susanna Le Maistre 26 Sept; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Catharina; David Hendrickszen, Tryntie Hercks 3 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Isaac and Jacob (twins); Daniel Terneur, Hester de La Maistre, Marritie Pieters 31 Dec; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt (?) 14 Jul; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Thomas; Marie; Willem Van Leyden (I have Marie listed as a child, but unsourced beyond this record.) [This particuliar site is not easily sourced, since it's one long list; there's a several sites with New Amsterdam baptisms and marriages. If anyone needs this info with years, I can provide urls.] Among others, also listed are Jan Dirckszen Straetman or Straetmaecker (Street maker), Jan Dirckszen de Meyer/Mayer, Jan Dircxen op Hoboken, Jan Dirckszen van Bremen, and Jan Dirckszen van Amsterdam. There are also at least two, possibly three Sara Theunis'. Here's his marriage record, as being "van Arnhem". In addition to what Pete says, since he was a soldier, it's that much less reliable as a birth place. (I have a soldier of the Dutch West India Co., but I have no source.) Sara Theunis is listed as from Rotterdam. Possibly more reliable, but Rotterdam being a port city, it may have been more convient using her (possible) departure place than her actual home. Lot's of times, I've seem numerous immigrant ancester of mine using "New York" or "New Jersey" in census records, rather than actual original country of origin. Note that the patronym system also applies to Sara - "Sara Theuniszen", or "daughter of Theunis". Soort bron: Trouwboek Kerkgemeente: Collegiate Church of New York Proclamatie: 28-06-1664 Gezindte: NDG Plaats: Nieuw Amsterdam-New York Bruidegom: Jan Dirckszen Geboorteplaats bruidegom: Arnhem Bruid: Sara Theuniszen Geboorteplaats bruid: Rotterdam Jongedochter bruid: J Vorige partner bruidegom: Vorige partner bruid: Nadere informatie: De bruidegom is soldaat Translation: Source Type: Wedding Book Congregation: Collegiate Church of New York Proclamation: 06/28/1664 Belief: NDG Hometown: New Amsterdam-New York Groom: January Dircksz Hometown groom: Arnhem Bride: Sara Theunisz Hometown wedding: Rotterdam Young Daughter bride: J Previous partner groom: Previous partner bride Further information: The groom is a soldier [ http://bhic.nl/site/pagina.php?id=193&actie=akte&cid=cTExgRKQ2HdQx1CjKpnEFMD hX&xtr=21967397 ] On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Pete Gonigam <gonigam@hotmail.com> wrote: > May I point out again that "Van Arnhem", at least as it applies to the > records of Jan Dircks Van Arnhem who married Sarah Theunis, is clearly a > descriptor, not a surname. It means he was "from" Arnhem; perhaps born > there, perhaps raised there, perhaps lived there for a while before he came > to New Amsterdam. > > Half a dozen bits collectively suggest to me he probably wasn't born in > Arnhem. Among them was a scan several years ago through the Netherlands > indices suggested by jroguetech in which I could find no one who looked > very > much like our Jan Dircks. (Didn't find a Sarah Theunis, either.) > > Jan Dirck's children didn't begin using the Van Arnhem surname until around > 1695, 14 years after the last record that mentions their father (who was > still using the presumed patronymic "Dircksen"). In other words, for more > than 30 years after 1664 the family was NOT named Van Arnhem. > > (Please don't ask why they eventually adopted a surname their father never > seems to have used. It's another of many things about the early family > that > don't seem to make any sense.) > > --pete > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> > To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 9:50 PM > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > > > > > I'm having trouble figuring out how to use this website. Could you post > > the > > results for the Van Arnhem's to this list? Thanks > > > > Susan Van Orman Claggett > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:43 PM > > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > > > Here's a resource that shows some Van Arnhem's in Holland, going back as > > far > > as the 1600's. > > > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=10004 > > > > This has resources for New Amsterdam, New Holland: > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=193 > > (enter "Nieuw Amsterdam-New York" as Plaats) > > > > Does anyone have other resources for tracing the Van Arnhem's in Holland? > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pete, As usual thanks for putting everything back into perspective. I just can't understand with all of our family branches why there is no written record of the family history explaining the name change, where in Holland the family is from, why the immigrated to the New World, etc. Is Dircksen Scandinavian in origin? Susan -----Original Message----- From: Pete Gonigam [mailto:gonigam@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 11:06 PM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource May I point out again that "Van Arnhem", at least as it applies to the records of Jan Dircks Van Arnhem who married Sarah Theunis, is clearly a descriptor, not a surname. It means he was "from" Arnhem; perhaps born there, perhaps raised there, perhaps lived there for a while before he came to New Amsterdam. Half a dozen bits collectively suggest to me he probably wasn't born in Arnhem. Among them was a scan several years ago through the Netherlands indices suggested by jroguetech in which I could find no one who looked very much like our Jan Dircks. (Didn't find a Sarah Theunis, either.) Jan Dirck's children didn't begin using the Van Arnhem surname until around 1695, 14 years after the last record that mentions their father (who was still using the presumed patronymic "Dircksen"). In other words, for more than 30 years after 1664 the family was NOT named Van Arnhem. (Please don't ask why they eventually adopted a surname their father never seems to have used. It's another of many things about the early family that don't seem to make any sense.) --pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > I'm having trouble figuring out how to use this website. Could you post > the > results for the Van Arnhem's to this list? Thanks > > Susan Van Orman Claggett > -----Original Message----- > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:43 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > Here's a resource that shows some Van Arnhem's in Holland, going back as > far > as the 1600's. > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=10004 > > This has resources for New Amsterdam, New Holland: > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=193 > (enter "Nieuw Amsterdam-New York" as Plaats) > > Does anyone have other resources for tracing the Van Arnhem's in Holland? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Last names weren't formally adopted (in New Amsterdam) until 1687, and weren't in common use for much longer, even into the 1800's. http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/pat.shtml Most records show Jan Dirksz as Jan Dirckszen http://www.altlaw.com/edball/dutchbap.htm (baptism date, father, mother, child, witness, witness) Aug; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Magdalena; Jilles Joosten, Maria Wouters 4 Jun; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara; Jan; Jan Laurenszen Duyts, Mayken Laurens 9 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Abraham; Jean le Maistre, Susanna Le Maistre 26 Sept; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Catharina; David Hendrickszen, Tryntie Hercks 3 Apr; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Isaac and Jacob (twins); Daniel Terneur, Hester de La Maistre, Marritie Pieters 31 Dec; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt (?) 14 Jul; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Thomas; Marie; Willem Van Leyden (I have Marie listed as a child, but unsourced beyond this record.) [This particuliar site is not easily sourced, since it's one long list; there's a several sites with New Amsterdam baptisms and marriages. If anyone needs this info with years, I can provide urls.] Among others, also listed are Jan Dirckszen Straetman or Straetmaecker (Street maker), Jan Dirckszen de Meyer/Mayer, Jan Dircxen op Hoboken, Jan Dirckszen van Bremen, and Jan Dirckszen van Amsterdam. There are also at least two, possibly three Sara Theunis'. Here's his marriage record, as being "van Arnhem". In addition to what Pete says, since he was a soldier, it's that much less reliable as a birth place. (I have a soldier of the Dutch West India Co., but I have no source.) Sara Theunis is listed as from Rotterdam. Possibly more reliable, but Rotterdam being a port city, it may have been more convient using her (possible) departure place than her actual home. Lot's of times, I've seem numerous immigrant ancester of mine using "New York" or "New Jersey" in census records, rather than actual original country of origin. Note that the patronym system also applies to Sara - "Sara Theuniszen", or "daughter of Theunis". Soort bron: Trouwboek Kerkgemeente: Collegiate Church of New York Proclamatie: 28-06-1664 Gezindte: NDG Plaats: Nieuw Amsterdam-New York Bruidegom: Jan Dirckszen Geboorteplaats bruidegom: Arnhem Bruid: Sara Theuniszen Geboorteplaats bruid: Rotterdam Jongedochter bruid: J Vorige partner bruidegom: Vorige partner bruid: Nadere informatie: De bruidegom is soldaat Translation: Source Type: Wedding Book Congregation: Collegiate Church of New York Proclamation: 06/28/1664 Belief: NDG Hometown: New Amsterdam-New York Groom: January Dircksz Hometown groom: Arnhem Bride: Sara Theunisz Hometown wedding: Rotterdam Young Daughter bride: J Previous partner groom: Previous partner bride Further information: The groom is a soldier [ http://bhic.nl/site/pagina.php?id=193&actie=akte&cid=cTExgRKQ2HdQx1CjKpnEFMDhX&xtr=21967397 ] On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Pete Gonigam <gonigam@hotmail.com> wrote: > May I point out again that "Van Arnhem", at least as it applies to the > records of Jan Dircks Van Arnhem who married Sarah Theunis, is clearly a > descriptor, not a surname. It means he was "from" Arnhem; perhaps born > there, perhaps raised there, perhaps lived there for a while before he came > to New Amsterdam. > > Half a dozen bits collectively suggest to me he probably wasn't born in > Arnhem. Among them was a scan several years ago through the Netherlands > indices suggested by jroguetech in which I could find no one who looked > very > much like our Jan Dircks. (Didn't find a Sarah Theunis, either.) > > Jan Dirck's children didn't begin using the Van Arnhem surname until around > 1695, 14 years after the last record that mentions their father (who was > still using the presumed patronymic "Dircksen"). In other words, for more > than 30 years after 1664 the family was NOT named Van Arnhem. > > (Please don't ask why they eventually adopted a surname their father never > seems to have used. It's another of many things about the early family > that > don't seem to make any sense.) > > --pete > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> > To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 9:50 PM > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > > > > > I'm having trouble figuring out how to use this website. Could you post > > the > > results for the Van Arnhem's to this list? Thanks > > > > Susan Van Orman Claggett > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:43 PM > > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > > > Here's a resource that shows some Van Arnhem's in Holland, going back as > > far > > as the 1600's. > > > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=10004 > > > > This has resources for New Amsterdam, New Holland: > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=193 > > (enter "Nieuw Amsterdam-New York" as Plaats) > > > > Does anyone have other resources for tracing the Van Arnhem's in Holland? > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

May I point out again that "Van Arnhem", at least as it applies to the records of Jan Dircks Van Arnhem who married Sarah Theunis, is clearly a descriptor, not a surname. It means he was "from" Arnhem; perhaps born there, perhaps raised there, perhaps lived there for a while before he came to New Amsterdam. Half a dozen bits collectively suggest to me he probably wasn't born in Arnhem. Among them was a scan several years ago through the Netherlands indices suggested by jroguetech in which I could find no one who looked very much like our Jan Dircks. (Didn't find a Sarah Theunis, either.) Jan Dirck's children didn't begin using the Van Arnhem surname until around 1695, 14 years after the last record that mentions their father (who was still using the presumed patronymic "Dircksen"). In other words, for more than 30 years after 1664 the family was NOT named Van Arnhem. (Please don't ask why they eventually adopted a surname their father never seems to have used. It's another of many things about the early family that don't seem to make any sense.) --pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > I'm having trouble figuring out how to use this website. Could you post > the > results for the Van Arnhem's to this list? Thanks > > Susan Van Orman Claggett > -----Original Message----- > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:43 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > Here's a resource that shows some Van Arnhem's in Holland, going back as > far > as the 1600's. > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=10004 > > This has resources for New Amsterdam, New Holland: > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=193 > (enter "Nieuw Amsterdam-New York" as Plaats) > > Does anyone have other resources for tracing the Van Arnhem's in Holland? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The site is certainly difficult to use, and is hit or miss on results. For those intrepid few attempting to use the site, Google translate is a huge help; copy/pasting the records gives an instant translation (just be careful of names being translated). Here's a quick glossary: Familienaam = last name Patroniem = father's name (old style of last name; sometime's interchangable - for instance, Jan Dirksz Van Arhem is listed in many records as Jan Dirkszen or some variation) zoeken = search wissen = clear Voornaam = first name Tussenvoegsel = middle name Plaats = region Vader = father Moeder = mother Kind = child Getuige = witness Bruid = bride (bruidegom = bridegroom) huwelijk = wedding overlijden = death doop = baptism memorie = (? either obituary or personal memory) date formats are dd-mm-yyyy (NOT mm-dd-yyyy) I've found these search forms on this site: http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=193 (results for Netherlands and New Amsterdam) http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=11454 (results for Brabant; province in Netherlands, may cover portions of Belgium?) http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=10004 (probably same as above with a different url) I've been using http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=193 as the search results can be viewed in a separate page, allowing more precise source citations. Pasting the list of results for "Arnhem", but not sure it's really all of them, with the different search forms mentioned. If you want details on any given individual/record, let me know. There are also many results for Van Arnhems in New Amsterdam that are simply not paste-able, and also often list no last name, instead using patronym as mentioned above. Arnhem, van Maria child Breda 11-03-1593 Arnhem, van Jacobus father Breda 11-03-1593 Arnhem, van Heijndric Aelbertsen witness Willemstad 04-04-1627 Arnhem, van Jacob witness Willemstad 28-07-1629 Arnhem, van Mariken child Willemstad 12-12-1632 Arnhem, van Hendric Jacobsen father Willemstad 12-12-1632 Arnhem, van Hermen bridegroom Heusden 18-03-1660 Arnhem, van Jan child Heusden 03-11-1662 Arnhem, van - father Heusden 03-11-1662 Arnhem, van Daniel bridegroom Berlicum 07-10-1668 Arnhem, van Johannes Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 04-08-1685 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 04-08-1685 Arnhem, van Dina Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 10-01-1687 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 10-01-1687 Arnhem, van Johanna Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 26-06-1689 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 26-06-1689 Arnhem, van Anna Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 29-10-1690 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 29-10-1690 Arnhem, van Dina Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 13-09-1693 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 13-09-1693 Arnhem, van Bernardus Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 12-12-1694 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 12-12-1694 Arnhem, van Dina Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 03-02-1697 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 03-02-1697 Arnhem, van Joannes Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 26-04-1699 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 26-04-1699 Arnhem, van Cornelis Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 06-03-1701 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 06-03-1701 Arnhem, van Thomas bridegroom Breda 30-04-1701 Arnhem, van Peter Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 07-07-1703 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 07-07-1703 Arnhem, van Hendrik Jansen bridegroom Breda 05-08-1703 Arnhem, van Hendrik Janse bridegroom Breda 26-02-1707 Arnhem, van Arnoldus witness Willemstad 05-02-1713 Arnhem, van Joannes child 's-Hertogenbosch 01-05-1721 Arnhem, van Mathias father 's-Hertogenbosch 01-05-1721 Arnhem, van Gerrard deceased Waalre 22-03-1730 Arnhem, van Godefridus witness 's-Hertogenbosch 14-02-1732 Arnhem Sibilla witness 's-Hertogenbosch 14-02-1732 Arnhem, van Maria Cornelia mother 's-Hertogenbosch 01-04-1733 Arnhem, van Petronilla witness 's-Hertogenbosch 01-04-1733 Arnhem, van Helena child Waalre 04-01-1736 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 04-01-1736 Arnhem, van Johanna witness Budel 05-08-1736 Arnhem, van Sara child Waalre 03-02-1737 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 03-02-1737 Arnhem, van Godefridus witness 's-Hertogenbosch 13-04-1737 Arnhem, van Gerardus child Waalre 09-02-1738 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 09-02-1738 Arnhem, van Allegonda child Waalre 27-03-1740 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 27-03-1740 Arnhem, van Anthonie child Waalre 23-04-1741 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 23-04-1741 Arnhem, van Maria Helena mother 's-Hertogenbosch 02-05-1744 Arnhem, van Guilielmus witness 's-Hertogenbosch 02-05-1744 Arnhem, van Joseph child Waalre 11-10-1744 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 11-10-1744 Arnhem, van Maria Helena mother 's-Hertogenbosch 25-04-1745 Arnhem, van Catharina Petronella witness 's-Hertogenbosch 25-04-1745 Arnhem, van Wilhelmine person on record Alem, Maren en Kessel 00-00-1747 Arnhem, van Maria Helena mother 's-Hertogenbosch 01-02-1747 Arnhem, van Maria Helena mother 's-Hertogenbosch 16-11-1749 Arnhem, van Wilhelmus Ignatius witness 's-Hertogenbosch 16-11-1749 Arnhem, van Jean person on record Alem, Maren en Kessel 16-09-1750 Arnhem, van Joanna child Gemert 13-03-1766 Arnhem, van Joannes Berens father Gemert 13-03-1766 Arnhem, van Joanna Berens witness Gemert 13-03-1766 Arnhem, van Barent deceased Waalre 20-06-1767 Arnhem, van Cornelie person on record Alem, Maren en Kessel 04-01-1789 Arnhem, van Corneille person on record Alem, Maren en Kessel 00-00-1790 Arnhem, van Gerardus child Berlicum 11-09-1800 Arnhem, van Bernardi father Berlicum 11-09-1800 Arnhem, van Wilhelmine mother of the bride Kessel 12-05-1811 Arnhem, van Allegonda deceased Eersel 25-06-1815 Arnhem, van Bernardus father of the deceased Eersel 25-06-1815 Arnhem, van Allegonda deceased Eersel 25-06-1815 Arnhem, van Allegonda deceased Eersel 25-06-1815 Arnhem, van Willem Carel child Escharen 22-12-1819 Arnhem, van Willem father Escharen 22-12-1819 Arnhem, van Hellemina deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 28-03-1827 Arnhem, van Willem father of the deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 28-03-1827 Arnhem, van Jan father of the bridegroom Lithoijen 09-08-1829 Arnhem, van Peter bridegroom Lithoijen 09-08-1829 Arnhem, van Hillemina mother of the deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 21-05-1832 Arnhem, van Wilhelmina mother of the deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 21-02-1835 Arnhem, van Allegonda mother of the deceased Eersel 16-05-1838 Arnhem, van Hendrikus deceased Lithoijen 05-05-1842 Arnhem, van Pieter father of the deceased Lithoijen 05-05-1842 Arnhem, van Pieter deceased Lithoijen 06-06-1844 Arnhem, van Jan father of the deceased Lithoijen 06-06-1844 Arnhem, van Maria Petronella mother of the bride Heeze 28-02-1851 Arnhem, van Hendrina bride Heeze 28-02-1851 Arnhem, van Wilhelmina mother of the deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 19-01-1861 Arnhem Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth M. person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Geffen 23-10-1875 Arnhem, van Hendriena relation of the deceased Heeze 07-01-1880 Arnhem, van Hermanus father of the bridegroom Boxtel 29-12-1887 Arnhem, van Dirk bridegroom Boxtel 29-12-1887 Arnhem, van Hermanus child Boxtel 08-05-1888 Arnhem, van Dirk father Boxtel 08-05-1888 Arnhem, van Hermanus deceased Boxtel 31-07-1888 Arnhem, van Dirk father of the deceased Boxtel 31-07-1888 Arnhem, van Hermanus child Boxtel 02-06-1889 Arnhem, van Dirk father Boxtel 02-06-1889 Arnhem, van Adrianus child Boxtel 17-01-1891 Arnhem, van Dirk father Boxtel 17-01-1891 Arnhem, van Hermanus deceased Boxtel 03-08-1891 Arnhem, van Dirk father of the deceased Boxtel 03-08-1891 Arnhem, van Geertruida Aagje child Boxtel 31-03-1895 Arnhem, van Dirk father Boxtel 31-03-1895 Arnhem, van Geertruida Aagje deceased Boxtel 27-04-1895 Arnhem, van Dirk father of the deceased Boxtel 27-04-1895 Arnhem, van Johannes deceased Heusden 08-08-1896 Arnhem, van Hendrikus father of the deceased Heusden 08-08-1896 Arnhem, van Wilhelmina deceased Heusden 20-04-1899 Arnhem, van Hendrikus father of the deceased Heusden 20-04-1899 Arnhem, van Gijsbert relation of the deceased Rosmalen 05-11-1915 Arnhem, van Elisabeth deceased Grave 01-12-1936 Arnhem, van Hendrikus father of the deceased Grave 01-12-1936 Arnhem, van Maria child Breda 11-03-1593 Arnhem, van Jacobus father Breda 11-03-1593 Arnhem, van Heijndric Aelbertsen witness Willemstad 04-04-1627 Arnhem, van Jacob witness Willemstad 28-07-1629 Arnhem, van Mariken child Willemstad 12-12-1632 Arnhem, van Hendric Jacobsen father Willemstad 12-12-1632 Arnhem, van Hermen bridegroom Heusden 18-03-1660 Arnhem, van Jan child Heusden 03-11-1662 Arnhem, van - father Heusden 03-11-1662 Arnhem, van Daniel bridegroom Berlicum 07-10-1668 Arnhem, van Johannes Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 04-08-1685 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 04-08-1685 Arnhem, van Dina Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 10-01-1687 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 10-01-1687 Arnhem, van Johanna Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 26-06-1689 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 26-06-1689 Arnhem, van Anna Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 29-10-1690 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 29-10-1690 Arnhem, van Dina Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 13-09-1693 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 13-09-1693 Arnhem, van Bernardus Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 12-12-1694 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 12-12-1694 Arnhem, van Dina Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 03-02-1697 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 03-02-1697 Arnhem, van Joannes Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 26-04-1699 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 26-04-1699 Arnhem, van Cornelis Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 06-03-1701 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 06-03-1701 Arnhem, van Thomas bridegroom Breda 30-04-1701 Arnhem, van Peter Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 07-07-1703 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 07-07-1703 Arnhem, van Hendrik Jansen bridegroom Breda 05-08-1703 Arnhem, van Hendrik Janse bridegroom Breda 26-02-1707 Arnhem, van Arnoldus witness Willemstad 05-02-1713 Arnhem, van Joannes child 's-Hertogenbosch 01-05-1721 Arnhem, van Mathias father 's-Hertogenbosch 01-05-1721 Arnhem, van Gerrard deceased Waalre 22-03-1730 Arnhem, van Godefridus witness 's-Hertogenbosch 14-02-1732 Arnhem Sibilla witness 's-Hertogenbosch 14-02-1732 Arnhem, van Maria Cornelia mother 's-Hertogenbosch 01-04-1733 Arnhem, van Petronilla witness 's-Hertogenbosch 01-04-1733 Arnhem, van Helena child Waalre 04-01-1736 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 04-01-1736 Arnhem, van Johanna witness Budel 05-08-1736 Arnhem, van Sara child Waalre 03-02-1737 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 03-02-1737 Arnhem, van Godefridus witness 's-Hertogenbosch 13-04-1737 Arnhem, van Gerardus child Waalre 09-02-1738 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 09-02-1738 Arnhem, van Allegonda child Waalre 27-03-1740 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 27-03-1740 Arnhem, van Anthonie child Waalre 23-04-1741 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 23-04-1741 Arnhem, van Maria Helena mother 's-Hertogenbosch 02-05-1744 Arnhem, van Guilielmus witness 's-Hertogenbosch 02-05-1744 Arnhem, van Joseph child Waalre 11-10-1744 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 11-10-1744 Arnhem, van Maria Helena mother 's-Hertogenbosch 25-04-1745 Arnhem, van Catharina Petronella witness 's-Hertogenbosch 25-04-1745 Arnhem, van Wilhelmine person on record Alem, Maren en Kessel 00-00-1747 Arnhem, van Maria Helena mother 's-Hertogenbosch 01-02-1747 Arnhem, van Maria Helena mother 's-Hertogenbosch 16-11-1749 Arnhem, van Wilhelmus Ignatius witness 's-Hertogenbosch 16-11-1749 Arnhem, van Jean person on record Alem, Maren en Kessel 16-09-1750 Arnhem, van Joanna child Gemert 13-03-1766 Arnhem, van Joannes Berens father Gemert 13-03-1766 Arnhem, van Joanna Berens witness Gemert 13-03-1766 Arnhem, van Barent deceased Waalre 20-06-1767 Arnhem, van Cornelie person on record Alem, Maren en Kessel 04-01-1789 Arnhem, van Corneille person on record Alem, Maren en Kessel 00-00-1790 Arnhem, van Gerardus child Berlicum 11-09-1800 Arnhem, van Bernardi father Berlicum 11-09-1800 Arnhem, van Wilhelmine mother of the bride Kessel 12-05-1811 Arnhem, van Allegonda deceased Eersel 25-06-1815 Arnhem, van Bernardus father of the deceased Eersel 25-06-1815 Arnhem, van Allegonda deceased Eersel 25-06-1815 Arnhem, van Allegonda deceased Eersel 25-06-1815 Arnhem, van Willem Carel child Escharen 22-12-1819 Arnhem, van Willem father Escharen 22-12-1819 Arnhem, van Hellemina deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 28-03-1827 Arnhem, van Willem father of the deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 28-03-1827 Arnhem, van Jan father of the bridegroom Lithoijen 09-08-1829 Arnhem, van Peter bridegroom Lithoijen 09-08-1829 Arnhem, van Hillemina mother of the deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 21-05-1832 Arnhem, van Wilhelmina mother of the deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 21-02-1835 Arnhem, van Allegonda mother of the deceased Eersel 16-05-1838 Arnhem, van Hendrikus deceased Lithoijen 05-05-1842 Arnhem, van Pieter father of the deceased Lithoijen 05-05-1842 Arnhem, van Pieter deceased Lithoijen 06-06-1844 Arnhem, van Jan father of the deceased Lithoijen 06-06-1844 Arnhem, van Maria Petronella mother of the bride Heeze 28-02-1851 Arnhem, van Hendrina bride Heeze 28-02-1851 Arnhem, van Wilhelmina mother of the deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 19-01-1861 Arnhem Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth M. person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Geffen 23-10-1875 Arnhem, van Hendriena relation of the deceased Heeze 07-01-1880 Arnhem, van Hermanus father of the bridegroom Boxtel 29-12-1887 Arnhem, van Dirk bridegroom Boxtel 29-12-1887 Arnhem, van Hermanus child Boxtel 08-05-1888 Arnhem, van Dirk father Boxtel 08-05-1888 Arnhem, van Hermanus deceased Boxtel 31-07-1888 Arnhem, van Dirk father of the deceased Boxtel 31-07-1888 Arnhem, van Hermanus child Boxtel 02-06-1889 Arnhem, van Dirk father Boxtel 02-06-1889 Arnhem, van Adrianus child Boxtel 17-01-1891 Arnhem, van Dirk father Boxtel 17-01-1891 Arnhem, van Hermanus deceased Boxtel 03-08-1891 Arnhem, van Dirk father of the deceased Boxtel 03-08-1891 Arnhem, van Geertruida Aagje child Boxtel 31-03-1895 Arnhem, van Dirk father Boxtel 31-03-1895 Arnhem, van Geertruida Aagje deceased Boxtel 27-04-1895 Arnhem, van Dirk father of the deceased Boxtel 27-04-1895 Arnhem, van Johannes deceased Heusden 08-08-1896 Arnhem, van Hendrikus father of the deceased Heusden 08-08-1896 Arnhem, van Wilhelmina deceased Heusden 20-04-1899 Arnhem, van Hendrikus father of the deceased Heusden 20-04-1899 Arnhem, van Gijsbert relation of the deceased Rosmalen 05-11-1915 Arnhem, van Elisabeth deceased Grave 01-12-1936 Arnhem, van Hendrikus father of the deceased Grave 01-12-1936 Arnhem, van Maria child Breda 11-03-1593 Arnhem, van Jacobus father Breda 11-03-1593 Arnhem, van Heijndric Aelbertsen witness Willemstad 04-04-1627 Arnhem, van Jacob witness Willemstad 28-07-1629 Arnhem, van Mariken child Willemstad 12-12-1632 Arnhem, van Hendric Jacobsen father Willemstad 12-12-1632 Arnhem, van Hermen bridegroom Heusden 18-03-1660 Arnhem, van Jan child Heusden 03-11-1662 Arnhem, van - father Heusden 03-11-1662 Arnhem, van Daniel bridegroom Berlicum 07-10-1668 Arnhem, van Johannes Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 04-08-1685 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 04-08-1685 Arnhem, van Dina Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 10-01-1687 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 10-01-1687 Arnhem, van Johanna Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 26-06-1689 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 26-06-1689 Arnhem, van Anna Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 29-10-1690 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 29-10-1690 Arnhem, van Dina Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 13-09-1693 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 13-09-1693 Arnhem, van Bernardus Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 12-12-1694 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 12-12-1694 Arnhem, van Dina Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 03-02-1697 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 03-02-1697 Arnhem, van Joannes Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 26-04-1699 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 26-04-1699 Arnhem, van Cornelis Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 06-03-1701 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 06-03-1701 Arnhem, van Thomas bridegroom Breda 30-04-1701 Arnhem, van Peter Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 07-07-1703 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 07-07-1703 Arnhem, van Hendrik Jansen bridegroom Breda 05-08-1703 Arnhem, van Hendrik Janse bridegroom Breda 26-02-1707 Arnhem, van Arnoldus witness Willemstad 05-02-1713 Arnhem, van Joannes child 's-Hertogenbosch 01-05-1721 Arnhem, van Mathias father 's-Hertogenbosch 01-05-1721 Arnhem, van Gerrard deceased Waalre 22-03-1730 Arnhem, van Godefridus witness 's-Hertogenbosch 14-02-1732 Arnhem Sibilla witness 's-Hertogenbosch 14-02-1732 Arnhem, van Maria Cornelia mother 's-Hertogenbosch 01-04-1733 Arnhem, van Petronilla witness 's-Hertogenbosch 01-04-1733 Arnhem, van Helena child Waalre 04-01-1736 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 04-01-1736 Arnhem, van Johanna witness Budel 05-08-1736 Arnhem, van Sara child Waalre 03-02-1737 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 03-02-1737 Arnhem, van Godefridus witness 's-Hertogenbosch 13-04-1737 Arnhem, van Gerardus child Waalre 09-02-1738 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 09-02-1738 Arnhem, van Allegonda child Waalre 27-03-1740 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 27-03-1740 Arnhem, van Anthonie child Waalre 23-04-1741 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 23-04-1741 Arnhem, van Maria Helena mother 's-Hertogenbosch 02-05-1744 Arnhem, van Guilielmus witness 's-Hertogenbosch 02-05-1744 Arnhem, van Joseph child Waalre 11-10-1744 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 11-10-1744 Arnhem, van Maria Helena mother 's-Hertogenbosch 25-04-1745 Arnhem, van Catharina Petronella witness 's-Hertogenbosch 25-04-1745 Arnhem, van Wilhelmine person on record Alem, Maren en Kessel 00-00-1747 Arnhem, van Maria Helena mother 's-Hertogenbosch 01-02-1747 Arnhem, van Maria Helena mother 's-Hertogenbosch 16-11-1749 Arnhem, van Wilhelmus Ignatius witness 's-Hertogenbosch 16-11-1749 Arnhem, van Jean person on record Alem, Maren en Kessel 16-09-1750 Arnhem, van Joanna child Gemert 13-03-1766 Arnhem, van Joannes Berens father Gemert 13-03-1766 Arnhem, van Joanna Berens witness Gemert 13-03-1766 Arnhem, van Barent deceased Waalre 20-06-1767 Arnhem, van Cornelie person on record Alem, Maren en Kessel 04-01-1789 Arnhem, van Corneille person on record Alem, Maren en Kessel 00-00-1790 Arnhem, van Gerardus child Berlicum 11-09-1800 Arnhem, van Bernardi father Berlicum 11-09-1800 Arnhem, van Wilhelmine mother of the bride Kessel 12-05-1811 Arnhem, van Allegonda deceased Eersel 25-06-1815 Arnhem, van Bernardus father of the deceased Eersel 25-06-1815 Arnhem, van Allegonda deceased Eersel 25-06-1815 Arnhem, van Allegonda deceased Eersel 25-06-1815 Arnhem, van Willem Carel child Escharen 22-12-1819 Arnhem, van Willem father Escharen 22-12-1819 Arnhem, van Hellemina deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 28-03-1827 Arnhem, van Willem father of the deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 28-03-1827 Arnhem, van Jan father of the bridegroom Lithoijen 09-08-1829 Arnhem, van Peter bridegroom Lithoijen 09-08-1829 Arnhem, van Hillemina mother of the deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 21-05-1832 Arnhem, van Wilhelmina mother of the deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 21-02-1835 Arnhem, van Allegonda mother of the deceased Eersel 16-05-1838 Arnhem, van Hendrikus deceased Lithoijen 05-05-1842 Arnhem, van Pieter father of the deceased Lithoijen 05-05-1842 Arnhem, van Pieter deceased Lithoijen 06-06-1844 Arnhem, van Jan father of the deceased Lithoijen 06-06-1844 Arnhem, van Maria Petronella mother of the bride Heeze 28-02-1851 Arnhem, van Hendrina bride Heeze 28-02-1851 Arnhem, van Wilhelmina mother of the deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 19-01-1861 Arnhem Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth M. person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Geffen 23-10-1875 Arnhem, van Hendriena relation of the deceased Heeze 07-01-1880 Arnhem, van Hermanus father of the bridegroom Boxtel 29-12-1887 Arnhem, van Dirk bridegroom Boxtel 29-12-1887 Arnhem, van Hermanus child Boxtel 08-05-1888 Arnhem, van Dirk father Boxtel 08-05-1888 Arnhem, van Hermanus deceased Boxtel 31-07-1888 Arnhem, van Dirk father of the deceased Boxtel 31-07-1888 Arnhem, van Hermanus child Boxtel 02-06-1889 Arnhem, van Dirk father Boxtel 02-06-1889 Arnhem, van Adrianus child Boxtel 17-01-1891 Arnhem, van Dirk father Boxtel 17-01-1891 Arnhem, van Hermanus deceased Boxtel 03-08-1891 Arnhem, van Dirk father of the deceased Boxtel 03-08-1891 Arnhem, van Geertruida Aagje child Boxtel 31-03-1895 Arnhem, van Dirk father Boxtel 31-03-1895 Arnhem, van Geertruida Aagje deceased Boxtel 27-04-1895 Arnhem, van Dirk father of the deceased Boxtel 27-04-1895 Arnhem, van Johannes deceased Heusden 08-08-1896 Arnhem, van Hendrikus father of the deceased Heusden 08-08-1896 Arnhem, van Wilhelmina deceased Heusden 20-04-1899 Arnhem, van Hendrikus father of the deceased Heusden 20-04-1899 Arnhem, van Gijsbert relation of the deceased Rosmalen 05-11-1915 Arnhem, van Elisabeth deceased Grave 01-12-1936 Arnhem, van Hendrikus father of the deceased Grave 01-12-1936Surname First name/Patronym Role Place Date Arnhem, van Maria child Breda 11-03-1593 Arnhem, van Jacobus father Breda 11-03-1593 Arnhem, van Heijndric Aelbertsen witness Willemstad 04-04-1627 Arnhem, van Jacob witness Willemstad 28-07-1629 Arnhem, van Mariken child Willemstad 12-12-1632 Arnhem, van Hendric Jacobsen father Willemstad 12-12-1632 Arnhem, van Hermen bridegroom Heusden 18-03-1660 Arnhem, van Jan child Heusden 03-11-1662 Arnhem, van - father Heusden 03-11-1662 Arnhem, van Daniel bridegroom Berlicum 07-10-1668 Arnhem, van Johannes Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 04-08-1685 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 04-08-1685 Arnhem, van Dina Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 10-01-1687 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 10-01-1687 Arnhem, van Johanna Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 26-06-1689 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 26-06-1689 Arnhem, van Anna Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 29-10-1690 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 29-10-1690 Arnhem, van Dina Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 13-09-1693 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 13-09-1693 Arnhem, van Bernardus Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 12-12-1694 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 12-12-1694 Arnhem, van Dina Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 03-02-1697 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 03-02-1697 Arnhem, van Joannes Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 26-04-1699 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 26-04-1699 Arnhem, van Cornelis Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 06-03-1701 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 06-03-1701 Arnhem, van Thomas bridegroom Breda 30-04-1701 Arnhem, van Peter Hendrik child 's Gravenmoer 07-07-1703 Arnhem, van - father 's Gravenmoer 07-07-1703 Arnhem, van Hendrik Jansen bridegroom Breda 05-08-1703 Arnhem, van Hendrik Janse bridegroom Breda 26-02-1707 Arnhem, van Arnoldus witness Willemstad 05-02-1713 Arnhem, van Joannes child 's-Hertogenbosch 01-05-1721 Arnhem, van Mathias father 's-Hertogenbosch 01-05-1721 Arnhem, van Gerrard deceased Waalre 22-03-1730 Arnhem, van Godefridus witness 's-Hertogenbosch 14-02-1732 Arnhem Sibilla witness 's-Hertogenbosch 14-02-1732 Arnhem, van Maria Cornelia mother 's-Hertogenbosch 01-04-1733 Arnhem, van Petronilla witness 's-Hertogenbosch 01-04-1733 Arnhem, van Helena child Waalre 04-01-1736 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 04-01-1736 Arnhem, van Johanna witness Budel 05-08-1736 Arnhem, van Sara child Waalre 03-02-1737 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 03-02-1737 Arnhem, van Godefridus witness 's-Hertogenbosch 13-04-1737 Arnhem, van Gerardus child Waalre 09-02-1738 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 09-02-1738 Arnhem, van Allegonda child Waalre 27-03-1740 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 27-03-1740 Arnhem, van Anthonie child Waalre 23-04-1741 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 23-04-1741 Arnhem, van Maria Helena mother 's-Hertogenbosch 02-05-1744 Arnhem, van Guilielmus witness 's-Hertogenbosch 02-05-1744 Arnhem, van Joseph child Waalre 11-10-1744 Arnhem, van Barent father Waalre 11-10-1744 Arnhem, van Maria Helena mother 's-Hertogenbosch 25-04-1745 Arnhem, van Catharina Petronella witness 's-Hertogenbosch 25-04-1745 Arnhem, van Wilhelmine person on record Alem, Maren en Kessel 00-00-1747 Arnhem, van Maria Helena mother 's-Hertogenbosch 01-02-1747 Arnhem, van Maria Helena mother 's-Hertogenbosch 16-11-1749 Arnhem, van Wilhelmus Ignatius witness 's-Hertogenbosch 16-11-1749 Arnhem, van Jean person on record Alem, Maren en Kessel 16-09-1750 Arnhem, van Joanna child Gemert 13-03-1766 Arnhem, van Joannes Berens father Gemert 13-03-1766 Arnhem, van Joanna Berens witness Gemert 13-03-1766 Arnhem, van Barent deceased Waalre 20-06-1767 Arnhem, van Cornelie person on record Alem, Maren en Kessel 04-01-1789 Arnhem, van Corneille person on record Alem, Maren en Kessel 00-00-1790 Arnhem, van Gerardus child Berlicum 11-09-1800 Arnhem, van Bernardi father Berlicum 11-09-1800 Arnhem, van Wilhelmine mother of the bride Kessel 12-05-1811 Arnhem, van Allegonda deceased Eersel 25-06-1815 Arnhem, van Bernardus father of the deceased Eersel 25-06-1815 Arnhem, van Allegonda deceased Eersel 25-06-1815 Arnhem, van Allegonda deceased Eersel 25-06-1815 Arnhem, van Willem Carel child Escharen 22-12-1819 Arnhem, van Willem father Escharen 22-12-1819 Arnhem, van Hellemina deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 28-03-1827 Arnhem, van Willem father of the deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 28-03-1827 Arnhem, van Jan father of the bridegroom Lithoijen 09-08-1829 Arnhem, van Peter bridegroom Lithoijen 09-08-1829 Arnhem, van Hillemina mother of the deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 21-05-1832 Arnhem, van Wilhelmina mother of the deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 21-02-1835 Arnhem, van Allegonda mother of the deceased Eersel 16-05-1838 Arnhem, van Hendrikus deceased Lithoijen 05-05-1842 Arnhem, van Pieter father of the deceased Lithoijen 05-05-1842 Arnhem, van Pieter deceased Lithoijen 06-06-1844 Arnhem, van Jan father of the deceased Lithoijen 06-06-1844 Arnhem, van Maria Petronella mother of the bride Heeze 28-02-1851 Arnhem, van Hendrina bride Heeze 28-02-1851 Arnhem, van Wilhelmina mother of the deceased Alem, Maren en Kessel 19-01-1861 Arnhem Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth M. person on record Grave 00-00-1875 Arnhem, van Elisabeth person on record Geffen 23-10-1875 Arnhem, van Hendriena relation of the deceased Heeze 07-01-1880 Arnhem, van Hermanus father of the bridegroom Boxtel 29-12-1887 Arnhem, van Dirk bridegroom Boxtel 29-12-1887 Arnhem, van Hermanus child Boxtel 08-05-1888 Arnhem, van Dirk father Boxtel 08-05-1888 Arnhem, van Hermanus deceased Boxtel 31-07-1888 Arnhem, van Dirk father of the deceased Boxtel 31-07-1888 Arnhem, van Hermanus child Boxtel 02-06-1889 Arnhem, van Dirk father Boxtel 02-06-1889 Arnhem, van Adrianus child Boxtel 17-01-1891 Arnhem, van Dirk father Boxtel 17-01-1891 Arnhem, van Hermanus deceased Boxtel 03-08-1891 Arnhem, van Dirk father of the deceased Boxtel 03-08-1891 Arnhem, van Geertruida Aagje child Boxtel 31-03-1895 Arnhem, van Dirk father Boxtel 31-03-1895 Arnhem, van Geertruida Aagje deceased Boxtel 27-04-1895 Arnhem, van Dirk father of the deceased Boxtel 27-04-1895 Arnhem, van Johannes deceased Heusden 08-08-1896 Arnhem, van Hendrikus father of the deceased Heusden 08-08-1896 Arnhem, van Wilhelmina deceased Heusden 20-04-1899 Arnhem, van Hendrikus father of the deceased Heusden 20-04-1899 Arnhem, van Gijsbert relation of the deceased Rosmalen 05-11-1915 Arnhem, van Elisabeth deceased Grave 01-12-1936 Arnhem, van Hendrikus father of the deceased Grave 01-12-1936 On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com>wrote: > > I'm having trouble figuring out how to use this website. Could you post > the > results for the Van Arnhem's to this list? Thanks > > Susan Van Orman Claggett > -----Original Message----- > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:43 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource > > Here's a resource that shows some Van Arnhem's in Holland, going back as > far > as the 1600's. > > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=10004 > > This has resources for New Amsterdam, New Holland: > http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=193 > (enter "Nieuw Amsterdam-New York" as Plaats) > > Does anyone have other resources for tracing the Van Arnhem's in Holland? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I'm having trouble figuring out how to use this website. Could you post the results for the Van Arnhem's to this list? Thanks Susan Van Orman Claggett -----Original Message----- From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:43 PM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: [VANNORMAN] Holland resource Here's a resource that shows some Van Arnhem's in Holland, going back as far as the 1600's. http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=10004 This has resources for New Amsterdam, New Holland: http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=193 (enter "Nieuw Amsterdam-New York" as Plaats) Does anyone have other resources for tracing the Van Arnhem's in Holland? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Here's a resource that shows some Van Arnhem's in Holland, going back as far as the 1600's. http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=10004 This has resources for New Amsterdam, New Holland: http://bhic.nl/index.php?id=193 (enter "Nieuw Amsterdam-New York" as Plaats) Does anyone have other resources for tracing the Van Arnhem's in Holland?

Hans van Ommen's Albert may be the one found in the 1850 Ledyard, Cayuga, NY, census: C.G. Van Orman 60, Albert 17, Elizabetha 15. I have no further info on them. Linda Schwenn

Doesn't right any bells with me. Last time I surveyed things there appeared to be three different families some of whom probably ended up with the Van Norman surname. A fourth wouldn't be surprising, however. --pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Claggett" <claimtofame@claggett6.com> To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 8:20 PM Subject: [VANNORMAN] Note from Hans van Ommen > This note below was posted on Ancestry.com at the Van Orman Dutch board > today and thought it had interesting info about origin and the family name > change. Do we have info on this family? > > Susan > > > > Hello, would like to get in contact with the ancesters of Albert VanOrman > (van Ommen) They are originated from Vollenhoven in the Netherlands, the > family tree goes back to 1684 . > Albert was born in 1832 and had 5 children. > If this small information makes cense to you, i can provide you with more > information. > Looking forward to hear more about Vanorman and van Ommen. > regards. > Hans van Ommen > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

This note below was posted on Ancestry.com at the Van Orman Dutch board today and thought it had interesting info about origin and the family name change. Do we have info on this family? Susan Hello, would like to get in contact with the ancesters of Albert VanOrman (van Ommen) They are originated from Vollenhoven in the Netherlands, the family tree goes back to 1684 . Albert was born in 1832 and had 5 children. If this small information makes cense to you, i can provide you with more information. Looking forward to hear more about Vanorman and van Ommen. regards. Hans van Ommen

This note was posted on Ancestry.com on the Van Orman Dutch board today and thought it had interesting info about origin and the family name change. Do we have info on this family? Hello, would like to get in contact with the ancesters of Albert VanOrman (van Ommen) They are originated from Vollenhoven in the Netherlands, the family tree goes back to 1684 . Albert was born in 1832 and had 5 children. If this small information makes cense to you, i can provide you with more information. Looking forward to hear more about Vanorman and van Ommen. regards. Hans van Ommen

This note was posted on Ancestry.com on the Van Orman Dutch board today and thought it had interesting info about origin and the family name change. Do we have info on this family? Hello, would like to get in contact with the ancesters of Albert VanOrman (van Ommen) They are originated from Vollenhoven in the Netherlands, the family tree goes back to 1684 . Albert was born in 1832 and had 5 children. If this small information makes cense to you, i can provide you with more information. Looking forward to hear more about Vanorman and van Ommen. regards. Hans van Ommen

Thanks for this post, Arlene On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 3:02 AM, <vannorman-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Ephraim Vanorman (Linda Noggle) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:21:55 -0400 > From: Linda Noggle <lindanoggle@verizon.net> > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Ephraim Vanorman > To: Vannorman <vannorman@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <3D7E7630-AC41-4CB1-8DC1-06039BF558D3@verizon.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi Again, > > My mistake looking over records from Evelyn McLaren and she says Ephraim > was soon of Jesse and Lidia Smith. > > Linda > On Oct 3, 2010, at 12:03 AM, Linda Noggle wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > I am not sure you had this information or not, but on MDCH - Genealogical > Death indexing system (Michigan) > > I found death record for Ephigm Vanorman (Ephraim) > > > > Date of death: 12/16/1886 > > Place of death: Jefferson , Hillsdale Co., Michigan > > Married, age 72 years > > Cause of Death: Brights Disease > > Birthplace: NY > > Occ: Farming > > Fathers Name: J. Vanorman > > Father's Resid: Michigan > > Mother's Name: Lydia Vanorman > > Mother's Resid: Michigan > > Ledger Page: 271 > > Record Number: 4113 > > Date of record: 7/28/1887 > > > > > > This would be Sophronia Folsom Vanorman's husband. > > And I believe Ephraim would be a son of Jacob and Lydia Sawyer Vanorman > > > > Linda > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the VANNORMAN list administrator, send an email to > VANNORMAN-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the VANNORMAN mailing list, send an email to > VANNORMAN@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of VANNORMAN Digest, Vol 5, Issue 120 > ***************************************** >

Hi Again, My mistake looking over records from Evelyn McLaren and she says Ephraim was soon of Jesse and Lidia Smith. Linda On Oct 3, 2010, at 12:03 AM, Linda Noggle wrote: > Hi All, > > I am not sure you had this information or not, but on MDCH - Genealogical Death indexing system (Michigan) > I found death record for Ephigm Vanorman (Ephraim) > > Date of death: 12/16/1886 > Place of death: Jefferson , Hillsdale Co., Michigan > Married, age 72 years > Cause of Death: Brights Disease > Birthplace: NY > Occ: Farming > Fathers Name: J. Vanorman > Father's Resid: Michigan > Mother's Name: Lydia Vanorman > Mother's Resid: Michigan > Ledger Page: 271 > Record Number: 4113 > Date of record: 7/28/1887 > > > This would be Sophronia Folsom Vanorman's husband. > And I believe Ephraim would be a son of Jacob and Lydia Sawyer Vanorman > > Linda > >