Sara Teunis listed on the manifest is not the child of Lysbet: Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child [line break] Sara Teunis [origin unknown, single, no children] The same argument could be made that Lybeth is the child of Corneliss, and not the wife of John Saline: Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child The linebreaks are very significant. On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > Thanks Linda!  Can you see what I am saying about this Sara Teunis (aboard > the De Trouw) being a 3 year old child?  I have made many interesting > discoveries and will share soon so we can discuss the validity. > > Susan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Linda Schwenn [mailto:schwel@comcast.net] > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 7:38 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > > Susan and jroquetech: I am so grateful that you are posting this info. I > haven't the time right now to follow all this research in the depth I'd like > and hope I don't miss something essential in all this. I wonder if either of > you, or all you lurkers who've been following along, have seen Dutch records > to support the following which I received several years ago: > > *Descendants of Jan Derryckssen and Gerriken Beecken* > >  1. *Jan*1 *Derryckssen*, born abt 1593. He married on 23 May 1619 in > Arnhem, Gelderland, Netherlands *Gerriken* *Beecken*. > >  Children of Jan Derryckssen and Gerriken Beecken were as follows: > > + 2 i *Dirkje Jantze*2 *Van Arnhem*, born abt 1615; died in Arnhem, > Gelderland, Netherlands. He married *Magdaleentjen* *Janssen*. > >  *Generation 2* > >  2. *Dirkje Jantze*2 *Van Arnhem* (Jan1), born abt 1615; died in Arnhem, > Gelderland, Netherlands. He married on 22 Apr 1638 in Arnhem, Gelderland, > Netherlands *Magdaleentjen* *Janssen*, born abt 1615. > >  *Notes for Dirkje Jantze Van Arnhem* > > Was an officer under William II, Prince of Oranje, Count of Nassau. He > supposedly served with Saloman, brother of Rembrandt Harmenszoon van Rijn, > who was the subject of the painting "Man in a Golden Helmet". > > Children of Dirkje Jantze Van Arnhem and Magdaleentjen Janssen were as > follows: > >  3 i *Derryckssen*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 3 Feb 1638/39. > > + 4 ii *Jan Dirckszen*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 13 Oct 1640 in Arnhem, > Gelderland, Nederlandt, died abt 1739 in New York, New York. > >  5 iii *Joris*3 *Van Arnhem*, born 25 Jan 1642/43. > >  6 iv *Hendrik*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 14 Jul 1647. > >  7 v *Marricken*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened Nov 1649. > > > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Susan Claggett > <claimtofame@claggett6.com>wrote: > >> Is this just coincidental to you? >> >> Lysbeth De Roode from Danzig and child (wife of John Salme) and her child >> three years old came to New Netherland by the De Trouw, which sailed >> January >> 20, 1664.  Six months later her daughter Sara was baptized in New >> Amsterdam. >> >> >> 1664 Jul 23; Jan Salmie, Lysbeth Roden; Sara; Lambert Janszen Bosch, Sara >> Ver Plancken, Barbara Willems >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:10 PM >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of >> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> >> It sources Olive Tree, which is the source of the list I pasted. They >> attributed Sara Teunis as the child of Lysbet, when there is no reason >> to assume Sara is the child, and reason to believe she is not. Indeed, >> Olive Tree delinates the two entries as separate people. >> >> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Susan Claggett >> <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >> > The link was stripped.  I will try again. >> > http://www.slideshare.net/rhokel/index-to-new-netherland-ships-1660 >> > >> > More than half of my messages are returned to me for no apparent >> > reason...frustrating. >> > Susan >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 5:43 PM >> > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of >> > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >> > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> > >> > I'm not sure of your source, but whatever the source is, it apparently >> > makes the mistake of assigning Lysbet De Roode's child to Sara >> > Theunis, listed below her. This is an error. Her child is not named, >> > nor is the "suckling child" of above him of Cornelius, or the four >> > children above him of Johannis, or the child of Lysbet above him. >> > >> > Here is the ship list: >> > Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer >> > Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda >> > Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child >> > Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children >> > Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum >> > Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >> > Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child >> > Sara Teunis >> > >> > Clearly Sara Teunis is NOT the child of Lysbet de Roode, and is either >> > an adult. This is still the best bet for our Sara based on available >> > evidence presented thus far. >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Susan Claggett >> > <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara >> Teunis >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The Faith (De Trouw) passenger list shows Sara Teunis as a child on the >> >> passenger list.  It is my opinion that if she were a single young woman >> > (and >> >> our Sara Teunis) it would have stated maiden behind her name and from >> like >> >> the others on this list.  This is not our Sara Teunis. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Susan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The Faith (De Trouw) >> >> >> >> December 13 1660. Captain Jan Jans Bestevaer from Lists Of Inhabitants >> Of >> >> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >> >> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Christiaen de Lorie, from St Malo, wife, mother and sister >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hendrick Jansen Spier and Wife and two children 4 and 5 yrs old >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Adriaen Huybertsen Sterrevelt; Agriculturist >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Harmen Stepfer, from the Dutchy of Cleef >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Joost Adriaensen Pynacker, from Delft >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Philip Langelens; Agriculturist, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hendrick Bos, from Leyden, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Gerrit Gerritsen, from Wageningen, and Wife and one child. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> William Aertsen, from Wagening. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Gerrit van Manen, from Wagening >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Albert Gerritsen, from Wagening. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jan Gerritsen Hagel >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hendrick Jansen, from Wagening >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jan Aertsen, from Amersfoort >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Tys Jansen, from Amersfoort >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Wessel Wesselsen, from Munster >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Adolph Hardenbroeck, and Wife and Son 25 yrs old. (Pieter Rudolphus >> agrees >> >> to pay passage for the son of Adolph) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Claes Theunissen, from Gorcum, and his servant, and boy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lubbert Harmensen, from Overyssel >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lammert Huybertsen, [Brink?] from Wagening, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jan Harmans and Wife and sucking child >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Roeloft Hendricks from Drenthe >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Femmetje Hendricksen, maiden >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Maria Mooris, from Arnhem, maiden >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Marten Abrahamsen, from Bloemendael, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The Wife of Hans Sodurat, Baker, and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Leendert Arentsen Groenevelt, and Wife >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Aeltje Jacobsen; maiden >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Willem Petersen, from Amersfoort [Van Slyke aka Neef, the nephew of >> Lorine >> >> McGinnis Schulze's Cornelis Antonissen Van Slyke] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Claes Tysen, cooper, and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> March 1662 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund >> Bailey >> >> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland >> 1657-1664 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lysbert Harmens, from the Traert >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jan Gerrits, from Embden; labourer >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jacob Wouters, from Amsterdam >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Barent Witten Hooft, from Munster, Tailor, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Stoffel Smet, from Keurlo; Agriculturist >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Precilla Homes, and her brother, and one suckling >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Thomas Harmensen Brouwers, from Sevenbergen; farmer >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Symon Cornie; farmer from France, and Wife >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Adriaen Gerritsen, from Utrecht; Agriculturist, and Wife and five >> children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Albert Jansen, from Steenwyck; Tailor >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Reinier Petersen, from Steenwyck; Agriculturer >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Claes van Campen, from Oldenburg; farmer's boy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Adriaen Aartsen from Thillerwarden in Guilderland >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hendrick Arentsen, from the same place; labourer >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> January 1664 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund >> > Bailey >> >> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland >> 1657-1664 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara >> Teunis >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks Linda! Can you see what I am saying about this Sara Teunis (aboard the De Trouw) being a 3 year old child? I have made many interesting discoveries and will share soon so we can discuss the validity. Susan -----Original Message----- From: Linda Schwenn [mailto:schwel@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 7:38 PM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 Susan and jroquetech: I am so grateful that you are posting this info. I haven't the time right now to follow all this research in the depth I'd like and hope I don't miss something essential in all this. I wonder if either of you, or all you lurkers who've been following along, have seen Dutch records to support the following which I received several years ago: *Descendants of Jan Derryckssen and Gerriken Beecken* 1. *Jan*1 *Derryckssen*, born abt 1593. He married on 23 May 1619 in Arnhem, Gelderland, Netherlands *Gerriken* *Beecken*. Children of Jan Derryckssen and Gerriken Beecken were as follows: + 2 i *Dirkje Jantze*2 *Van Arnhem*, born abt 1615; died in Arnhem, Gelderland, Netherlands. He married *Magdaleentjen* *Janssen*. *Generation 2* 2. *Dirkje Jantze*2 *Van Arnhem* (Jan1), born abt 1615; died in Arnhem, Gelderland, Netherlands. He married on 22 Apr 1638 in Arnhem, Gelderland, Netherlands *Magdaleentjen* *Janssen*, born abt 1615. *Notes for Dirkje Jantze Van Arnhem* Was an officer under William II, Prince of Oranje, Count of Nassau. He supposedly served with Saloman, brother of Rembrandt Harmenszoon van Rijn, who was the subject of the painting "Man in a Golden Helmet". Children of Dirkje Jantze Van Arnhem and Magdaleentjen Janssen were as follows: 3 i *Derryckssen*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 3 Feb 1638/39. + 4 ii *Jan Dirckszen*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 13 Oct 1640 in Arnhem, Gelderland, Nederlandt, died abt 1739 in New York, New York. 5 iii *Joris*3 *Van Arnhem*, born 25 Jan 1642/43. 6 iv *Hendrik*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 14 Jul 1647. 7 v *Marricken*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened Nov 1649. On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com>wrote: > Is this just coincidental to you? > > Lysbeth De Roode from Danzig and child (wife of John Salme) and her child > three years old came to New Netherland by the De Trouw, which sailed > January > 20, 1664. Six months later her daughter Sara was baptized in New > Amsterdam. > > > 1664 Jul 23; Jan Salmie, Lysbeth Roden; Sara; Lambert Janszen Bosch, Sara > Ver Plancken, Barbara Willems > > -----Original Message----- > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:10 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > > It sources Olive Tree, which is the source of the list I pasted. They > attributed Sara Teunis as the child of Lysbet, when there is no reason > to assume Sara is the child, and reason to believe she is not. Indeed, > Olive Tree delinates the two entries as separate people. > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Susan Claggett > <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > > The link was stripped. I will try again. > > http://www.slideshare.net/rhokel/index-to-new-netherland-ships-1660 > > > > More than half of my messages are returned to me for no apparent > > reason...frustrating. > > Susan > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 5:43 PM > > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of > > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early > > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > > > > I'm not sure of your source, but whatever the source is, it apparently > > makes the mistake of assigning Lysbet De Roode's child to Sara > > Theunis, listed below her. This is an error. Her child is not named, > > nor is the "suckling child" of above him of Cornelius, or the four > > children above him of Johannis, or the child of Lysbet above him. > > > > Here is the ship list: > > Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer > > Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda > > Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child > > Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children > > Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum > > Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child > > Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child > > Sara Teunis > > > > Clearly Sara Teunis is NOT the child of Lysbet de Roode, and is either > > an adult. This is still the best bet for our Sara based on available > > evidence presented thus far. > > > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Susan Claggett > > <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara > Teunis > >> > >> > >> > >> The Faith (De Trouw) passenger list shows Sara Teunis as a child on the > >> passenger list. It is my opinion that if she were a single young woman > > (and > >> our Sara Teunis) it would have stated maiden behind her name and from > like > >> the others on this list. This is not our Sara Teunis. > >> > >> > >> > >> Susan > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> The Faith (De Trouw) > >> > >> December 13 1660. Captain Jan Jans Bestevaer from Lists Of Inhabitants > Of > >> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early > >> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > >> > >> > >> > >> Christiaen de Lorie, from St Malo, wife, mother and sister > >> > >> > >> > >> Hendrick Jansen Spier and Wife and two children 4 and 5 yrs old > >> > >> > >> > >> Adriaen Huybertsen Sterrevelt; Agriculturist > >> > >> > >> > >> Harmen Stepfer, from the Dutchy of Cleef > >> > >> > >> > >> Joost Adriaensen Pynacker, from Delft > >> > >> > >> > >> Philip Langelens; Agriculturist, and Wife and two children > >> > >> > >> > >> Hendrick Bos, from Leyden, and Wife and two children > >> > >> > >> > >> Gerrit Gerritsen, from Wageningen, and Wife and one child. > >> > >> > >> > >> William Aertsen, from Wagening. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Gerrit van Manen, from Wagening > >> > >> > >> > >> Albert Gerritsen, from Wagening. > >> > >> > >> > >> Jan Gerritsen Hagel > >> > >> > >> > >> Hendrick Jansen, from Wagening > >> > >> > >> > >> Jan Aertsen, from Amersfoort > >> > >> > >> > >> Tys Jansen, from Amersfoort > >> > >> > >> > >> Wessel Wesselsen, from Munster > >> > >> > >> > >> Adolph Hardenbroeck, and Wife and Son 25 yrs old. (Pieter Rudolphus > agrees > >> to pay passage for the son of Adolph) > >> > >> > >> > >> Claes Theunissen, from Gorcum, and his servant, and boy > >> > >> > >> > >> Lubbert Harmensen, from Overyssel > >> > >> > >> > >> Lammert Huybertsen, [Brink?] from Wagening, and Wife and two children > >> > >> > >> > >> Jan Harmans and Wife and sucking child > >> > >> > >> > >> Roeloft Hendricks from Drenthe > >> > >> > >> > >> Femmetje Hendricksen, maiden > >> > >> > >> > >> Maria Mooris, from Arnhem, maiden > >> > >> > >> > >> Marten Abrahamsen, from Bloemendael, and Wife and two children > >> > >> > >> > >> The Wife of Hans Sodurat, Baker, and two children > >> > >> > >> > >> Leendert Arentsen Groenevelt, and Wife > >> > >> > >> > >> Aeltje Jacobsen; maiden > >> > >> > >> > >> Willem Petersen, from Amersfoort [Van Slyke aka Neef, the nephew of > Lorine > >> McGinnis Schulze's Cornelis Antonissen Van Slyke] > >> > >> > >> > >> Claes Tysen, cooper, and two children > >> > >> > >> > >> March 1662 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund > Bailey > >> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland > 1657-1664 > >> > >> > >> > >> Lysbert Harmens, from the Traert > >> > >> > >> > >> Jan Gerrits, from Embden; labourer > >> > >> > >> > >> Jacob Wouters, from Amsterdam > >> > >> > >> > >> Barent Witten Hooft, from Munster, Tailor, and Wife and two children > >> > >> > >> > >> Stoffel Smet, from Keurlo; Agriculturist > >> > >> > >> > >> Precilla Homes, and her brother, and one suckling > >> > >> > >> > >> Thomas Harmensen Brouwers, from Sevenbergen; farmer > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Symon Cornie; farmer from France, and Wife > >> > >> > >> > >> Adriaen Gerritsen, from Utrecht; Agriculturist, and Wife and five > children > >> > >> > >> > >> Albert Jansen, from Steenwyck; Tailor > >> > >> > >> > >> Reinier Petersen, from Steenwyck; Agriculturer > >> > >> > >> > >> Claes van Campen, from Oldenburg; farmer's boy > >> > >> > >> > >> Adriaen Aartsen from Thillerwarden in Guilderland > >> > >> > >> > >> Hendrick Arentsen, from the same place; labourer > >> > >> > >> > >> January 1664 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund > > Bailey > >> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland > 1657-1664 > >> > >> > >> > >> Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer > >> > >> > >> > >> Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda > >> > >> > >> > >> Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child > >> > >> > >> > >> Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children > >> > >> > >> > >> Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum > >> > >> > >> > >> Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child > >> > >> > >> > >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara > Teunis > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I've searched for records supporting Jan and Gerriken and have been unable to find anything to support it. There are no Baptism or marriage records of a Jan (either purported Jan Sr. or Jan of N.A.) within a hundred years in Arnhem. Whether it's because they never existed, or have been lost or not online, I don't know. As I recall, there were some Sara Theunis' in the right general time frame in Rotterdam, but I don't have enough enough information to link her to any (Sara being extremely common, and Teunis/Thuenis not being rare). I have no information to discredit it, but Pete has mentioned that he has reasons to disbelieve it. On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Linda Schwenn <schwel@comcast.net> wrote: > Susan and jroquetech: I am so grateful that you are posting this info. I > haven't the time right now to follow all this research in the depth I'd like > and hope I don't miss something essential in all this. I wonder if either of > you, or all you lurkers who've been following along, have seen Dutch records > to support the following which I received several years ago: > > *Descendants of Jan Derryckssen and Gerriken Beecken* > >  1. *Jan*1 *Derryckssen*, born abt 1593. He married on 23 May 1619 in > Arnhem, Gelderland, Netherlands *Gerriken* *Beecken*. > >  Children of Jan Derryckssen and Gerriken Beecken were as follows: > > + 2 i *Dirkje Jantze*2 *Van Arnhem*, born abt 1615; died in Arnhem, > Gelderland, Netherlands. He married *Magdaleentjen* *Janssen*. > >  *Generation 2* > >  2. *Dirkje Jantze*2 *Van Arnhem* (Jan1), born abt 1615; died in Arnhem, > Gelderland, Netherlands. He married on 22 Apr 1638 in Arnhem, Gelderland, > Netherlands *Magdaleentjen* *Janssen*, born abt 1615. > >  *Notes for Dirkje Jantze Van Arnhem* > > Was an officer under William II, Prince of Oranje, Count of Nassau. He > supposedly served with Saloman, brother of Rembrandt Harmenszoon van Rijn, > who was the subject of the painting "Man in a Golden Helmet". > > Children of Dirkje Jantze Van Arnhem and Magdaleentjen Janssen were as > follows: > >  3 i *Derryckssen*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 3 Feb 1638/39. > > + 4 ii *Jan Dirckszen*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 13 Oct 1640 in Arnhem, > Gelderland, Nederlandt, died abt 1739 in New York, New York. > >  5 iii *Joris*3 *Van Arnhem*, born 25 Jan 1642/43. > >  6 iv *Hendrik*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 14 Jul 1647. > >  7 v *Marricken*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened Nov 1649. > > > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Susan Claggett > <claimtofame@claggett6.com>wrote: > >> Is this just coincidental to you? >> >> Lysbeth De Roode from Danzig and child (wife of John Salme) and her child >> three years old came to New Netherland by the De Trouw, which sailed >> January >> 20, 1664.  Six months later her daughter Sara was baptized in New >> Amsterdam. >> >> >> 1664 Jul 23; Jan Salmie, Lysbeth Roden; Sara; Lambert Janszen Bosch, Sara >> Ver Plancken, Barbara Willems >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:10 PM >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of >> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> >> It sources Olive Tree, which is the source of the list I pasted. They >> attributed Sara Teunis as the child of Lysbet, when there is no reason >> to assume Sara is the child, and reason to believe she is not. Indeed, >> Olive Tree delinates the two entries as separate people. >> >> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Susan Claggett >> <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >> > The link was stripped.  I will try again. >> > http://www.slideshare.net/rhokel/index-to-new-netherland-ships-1660 >> > >> > More than half of my messages are returned to me for no apparent >> > reason...frustrating. >> > Susan >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 5:43 PM >> > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of >> > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >> > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> > >> > I'm not sure of your source, but whatever the source is, it apparently >> > makes the mistake of assigning Lysbet De Roode's child to Sara >> > Theunis, listed below her. This is an error. Her child is not named, >> > nor is the "suckling child" of above him of Cornelius, or the four >> > children above him of Johannis, or the child of Lysbet above him. >> > >> > Here is the ship list: >> > Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer >> > Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda >> > Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child >> > Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children >> > Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum >> > Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >> > Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child >> > Sara Teunis >> > >> > Clearly Sara Teunis is NOT the child of Lysbet de Roode, and is either >> > an adult. This is still the best bet for our Sara based on available >> > evidence presented thus far. >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Susan Claggett >> > <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara >> Teunis >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The Faith (De Trouw) passenger list shows Sara Teunis as a child on the >> >> passenger list.  It is my opinion that if she were a single young woman >> > (and >> >> our Sara Teunis) it would have stated maiden behind her name and from >> like >> >> the others on this list.  This is not our Sara Teunis. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Susan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The Faith (De Trouw) >> >> >> >> December 13 1660. Captain Jan Jans Bestevaer from Lists Of Inhabitants >> Of >> >> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >> >> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Christiaen de Lorie, from St Malo, wife, mother and sister >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hendrick Jansen Spier and Wife and two children 4 and 5 yrs old >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Adriaen Huybertsen Sterrevelt; Agriculturist >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Harmen Stepfer, from the Dutchy of Cleef >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Joost Adriaensen Pynacker, from Delft >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Philip Langelens; Agriculturist, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hendrick Bos, from Leyden, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Gerrit Gerritsen, from Wageningen, and Wife and one child. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> William Aertsen, from Wagening. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Gerrit van Manen, from Wagening >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Albert Gerritsen, from Wagening. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jan Gerritsen Hagel >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hendrick Jansen, from Wagening >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jan Aertsen, from Amersfoort >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Tys Jansen, from Amersfoort >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Wessel Wesselsen, from Munster >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Adolph Hardenbroeck, and Wife and Son 25 yrs old. (Pieter Rudolphus >> agrees >> >> to pay passage for the son of Adolph) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Claes Theunissen, from Gorcum, and his servant, and boy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lubbert Harmensen, from Overyssel >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lammert Huybertsen, [Brink?] from Wagening, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jan Harmans and Wife and sucking child >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Roeloft Hendricks from Drenthe >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Femmetje Hendricksen, maiden >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Maria Mooris, from Arnhem, maiden >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Marten Abrahamsen, from Bloemendael, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The Wife of Hans Sodurat, Baker, and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Leendert Arentsen Groenevelt, and Wife >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Aeltje Jacobsen; maiden >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Willem Petersen, from Amersfoort [Van Slyke aka Neef, the nephew of >> Lorine >> >> McGinnis Schulze's Cornelis Antonissen Van Slyke] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Claes Tysen, cooper, and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> March 1662 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund >> Bailey >> >> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland >> 1657-1664 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lysbert Harmens, from the Traert >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jan Gerrits, from Embden; labourer >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jacob Wouters, from Amsterdam >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Barent Witten Hooft, from Munster, Tailor, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Stoffel Smet, from Keurlo; Agriculturist >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Precilla Homes, and her brother, and one suckling >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Thomas Harmensen Brouwers, from Sevenbergen; farmer >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Symon Cornie; farmer from France, and Wife >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Adriaen Gerritsen, from Utrecht; Agriculturist, and Wife and five >> children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Albert Jansen, from Steenwyck; Tailor >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Reinier Petersen, from Steenwyck; Agriculturer >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Claes van Campen, from Oldenburg; farmer's boy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Adriaen Aartsen from Thillerwarden in Guilderland >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hendrick Arentsen, from the same place; labourer >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> January 1664 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund >> > Bailey >> >> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland >> 1657-1664 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara >> Teunis >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

What is your source on the child being named Sara Teunis? It would be odd for her to be named Sara Teunis with her father having been John/Jan... She would have been Sara Jansze. It would be a rather large coincidence if there were two Sara Teunis' on board De Trouw. Please provide your source for the name of the child. On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > No John meaning that Sara Teunis (on the passenger list of the De Trouw) is > the 3 year old child's name that sailed on the De Trouw with her mother > Lysbeth and that same Sara Teunis (not ours) was baptized six months later > according to the historical record that I found and also located in the > Church records.  I bet if we researched this little Sara's family we will > find a Teunis up close.  I believe she has nothing to do with our Sara and > Jan. > > Susan > > -----Original Message----- > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:59 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > > You mean Sara, wife of Jan, having a child named Sara witnessed by > Sara and a son of a Jan after sailing on a ship with a Sara who > marries a Jan, who has a child named Jan (witnessed by a Jan)? Odds > are, if we had the history of Lysbet and John Salme, and that of the > witnesses, we could work in several more Sara and Jan's. > > Just coincidence. > > And now that you point this out, Sara could not since Lysbeth's, since > it's extremely unlikely that Lysbeth would have two living children > named Sara. > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Susan Claggett > <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >> Is this just coincidental to you? >> >> Lysbeth De Roode from Danzig and child (wife of John Salme) and her child >> three years old came to New Netherland by the De Trouw, which sailed > January >> 20, 1664.  Six months later her daughter Sara was baptized in New > Amsterdam. >> >> >> 1664 Jul 23; Jan Salmie, Lysbeth Roden; Sara; Lambert Janszen Bosch, Sara >> Ver Plancken, Barbara Willems >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:10 PM >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of >> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> >> It sources Olive Tree, which is the source of the list I pasted. They >> attributed Sara Teunis as the child of Lysbet, when there is no reason >> to assume Sara is the child, and reason to believe she is not. Indeed, >> Olive Tree delinates the two entries as separate people. >> >> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Susan Claggett >> <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >>> The link was stripped.  I will try again. >>> http://www.slideshare.net/rhokel/index-to-new-netherland-ships-1660 >>> >>> More than half of my messages are returned to me for no apparent >>> reason...frustrating. >>> Susan >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 5:43 PM >>> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of >>> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >>> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >>> >>> I'm not sure of your source, but whatever the source is, it apparently >>> makes the mistake of assigning Lysbet De Roode's child to Sara >>> Theunis, listed below her. This is an error. Her child is not named, >>> nor is the "suckling child" of above him of Cornelius, or the four >>> children above him of Johannis, or the child of Lysbet above him. >>> >>> Here is the ship list: >>> Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer >>> Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda >>> Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child >>> Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children >>> Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum >>> Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >>> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child >>> Sara Teunis >>> >>> Clearly Sara Teunis is NOT the child of Lysbet de Roode, and is either >>> an adult. This is still the best bet for our Sara based on available >>> evidence presented thus far. >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Susan Claggett >>> <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara >> Teunis >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The Faith (De Trouw) passenger list shows Sara Teunis as a child on the >>>> passenger list.  It is my opinion that if she were a single young woman >>> (and >>>> our Sara Teunis) it would have stated maiden behind her name and from >> like >>>> the others on this list.  This is not our Sara Teunis. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Susan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The Faith (De Trouw) >>>> >>>> December 13 1660. Captain Jan Jans Bestevaer from Lists Of Inhabitants > Of >>>> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >>>> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Christiaen de Lorie, from St Malo, wife, mother and sister >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hendrick Jansen Spier and Wife and two children 4 and 5 yrs old >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Adriaen Huybertsen Sterrevelt; Agriculturist >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Harmen Stepfer, from the Dutchy of Cleef >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Joost Adriaensen Pynacker, from Delft >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Philip Langelens; Agriculturist, and Wife and two children >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hendrick Bos, from Leyden, and Wife and two children >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Gerrit Gerritsen, from Wageningen, and Wife and one child. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> William Aertsen, from Wagening. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Gerrit van Manen, from Wagening >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Albert Gerritsen, from Wagening. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jan Gerritsen Hagel >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hendrick Jansen, from Wagening >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jan Aertsen, from Amersfoort >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Tys Jansen, from Amersfoort >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Wessel Wesselsen, from Munster >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Adolph Hardenbroeck, and Wife and Son 25 yrs old. (Pieter Rudolphus >> agrees >>>> to pay passage for the son of Adolph) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Claes Theunissen, from Gorcum, and his servant, and boy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Lubbert Harmensen, from Overyssel >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Lammert Huybertsen, [Brink?] from Wagening, and Wife and two children >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jan Harmans and Wife and sucking child >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Roeloft Hendricks from Drenthe >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Femmetje Hendricksen, maiden >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Maria Mooris, from Arnhem, maiden >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Marten Abrahamsen, from Bloemendael, and Wife and two children >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The Wife of Hans Sodurat, Baker, and two children >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Leendert Arentsen Groenevelt, and Wife >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Aeltje Jacobsen; maiden >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Willem Petersen, from Amersfoort [Van Slyke aka Neef, the nephew of >> Lorine >>>> McGinnis Schulze's Cornelis Antonissen Van Slyke] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Claes Tysen, cooper, and two children >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> March 1662 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund >> Bailey >>>> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland > 1657-1664 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Lysbert Harmens, from the Traert >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jan Gerrits, from Embden; labourer >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jacob Wouters, from Amsterdam >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Barent Witten Hooft, from Munster, Tailor, and Wife and two children >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Stoffel Smet, from Keurlo; Agriculturist >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Precilla Homes, and her brother, and one suckling >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thomas Harmensen Brouwers, from Sevenbergen; farmer >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Symon Cornie; farmer from France, and Wife >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Adriaen Gerritsen, from Utrecht; Agriculturist, and Wife and five >> children >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Albert Jansen, from Steenwyck; Tailor >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Reinier Petersen, from Steenwyck; Agriculturer >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Claes van Campen, from Oldenburg; farmer's boy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Adriaen Aartsen from Thillerwarden in Guilderland >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hendrick Arentsen, from the same place; labourer >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> January 1664 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund >>> Bailey >>>> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland > 1657-1664 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara >> Teunis >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

No John meaning that Sara Teunis (on the passenger list of the De Trouw) is the 3 year old child's name that sailed on the De Trouw with her mother Lysbeth and that same Sara Teunis (not ours) was baptized six months later according to the historical record that I found and also located in the Church records. I bet if we researched this little Sara's family we will find a Teunis up close. I believe she has nothing to do with our Sara and Jan. Susan -----Original Message----- From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:59 PM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 You mean Sara, wife of Jan, having a child named Sara witnessed by Sara and a son of a Jan after sailing on a ship with a Sara who marries a Jan, who has a child named Jan (witnessed by a Jan)? Odds are, if we had the history of Lysbet and John Salme, and that of the witnesses, we could work in several more Sara and Jan's. Just coincidence. And now that you point this out, Sara could not since Lysbeth's, since it's extremely unlikely that Lysbeth would have two living children named Sara. On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > Is this just coincidental to you? > > Lysbeth De Roode from Danzig and child (wife of John Salme) and her child > three years old came to New Netherland by the De Trouw, which sailed January > 20, 1664.  Six months later her daughter Sara was baptized in New Amsterdam. > > > 1664 Jul 23; Jan Salmie, Lysbeth Roden; Sara; Lambert Janszen Bosch, Sara > Ver Plancken, Barbara Willems > > -----Original Message----- > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:10 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > > It sources Olive Tree, which is the source of the list I pasted. They > attributed Sara Teunis as the child of Lysbet, when there is no reason > to assume Sara is the child, and reason to believe she is not. Indeed, > Olive Tree delinates the two entries as separate people. > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Susan Claggett > <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >> The link was stripped.  I will try again. >> http://www.slideshare.net/rhokel/index-to-new-netherland-ships-1660 >> >> More than half of my messages are returned to me for no apparent >> reason...frustrating. >> Susan >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 5:43 PM >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of >> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> >> I'm not sure of your source, but whatever the source is, it apparently >> makes the mistake of assigning Lysbet De Roode's child to Sara >> Theunis, listed below her. This is an error. Her child is not named, >> nor is the "suckling child" of above him of Cornelius, or the four >> children above him of Johannis, or the child of Lysbet above him. >> >> Here is the ship list: >> Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer >> Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda >> Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child >> Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children >> Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum >> Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child >> Sara Teunis >> >> Clearly Sara Teunis is NOT the child of Lysbet de Roode, and is either >> an adult. This is still the best bet for our Sara based on available >> evidence presented thus far. >> >> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Susan Claggett >> <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara > Teunis >>> >>> >>> >>> The Faith (De Trouw) passenger list shows Sara Teunis as a child on the >>> passenger list.  It is my opinion that if she were a single young woman >> (and >>> our Sara Teunis) it would have stated maiden behind her name and from > like >>> the others on this list.  This is not our Sara Teunis. >>> >>> >>> >>> Susan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The Faith (De Trouw) >>> >>> December 13 1660. Captain Jan Jans Bestevaer from Lists Of Inhabitants Of >>> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >>> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >>> >>> >>> >>> Christiaen de Lorie, from St Malo, wife, mother and sister >>> >>> >>> >>> Hendrick Jansen Spier and Wife and two children 4 and 5 yrs old >>> >>> >>> >>> Adriaen Huybertsen Sterrevelt; Agriculturist >>> >>> >>> >>> Harmen Stepfer, from the Dutchy of Cleef >>> >>> >>> >>> Joost Adriaensen Pynacker, from Delft >>> >>> >>> >>> Philip Langelens; Agriculturist, and Wife and two children >>> >>> >>> >>> Hendrick Bos, from Leyden, and Wife and two children >>> >>> >>> >>> Gerrit Gerritsen, from Wageningen, and Wife and one child. >>> >>> >>> >>> William Aertsen, from Wagening. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Gerrit van Manen, from Wagening >>> >>> >>> >>> Albert Gerritsen, from Wagening. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jan Gerritsen Hagel >>> >>> >>> >>> Hendrick Jansen, from Wagening >>> >>> >>> >>> Jan Aertsen, from Amersfoort >>> >>> >>> >>> Tys Jansen, from Amersfoort >>> >>> >>> >>> Wessel Wesselsen, from Munster >>> >>> >>> >>> Adolph Hardenbroeck, and Wife and Son 25 yrs old. (Pieter Rudolphus > agrees >>> to pay passage for the son of Adolph) >>> >>> >>> >>> Claes Theunissen, from Gorcum, and his servant, and boy >>> >>> >>> >>> Lubbert Harmensen, from Overyssel >>> >>> >>> >>> Lammert Huybertsen, [Brink?] from Wagening, and Wife and two children >>> >>> >>> >>> Jan Harmans and Wife and sucking child >>> >>> >>> >>> Roeloft Hendricks from Drenthe >>> >>> >>> >>> Femmetje Hendricksen, maiden >>> >>> >>> >>> Maria Mooris, from Arnhem, maiden >>> >>> >>> >>> Marten Abrahamsen, from Bloemendael, and Wife and two children >>> >>> >>> >>> The Wife of Hans Sodurat, Baker, and two children >>> >>> >>> >>> Leendert Arentsen Groenevelt, and Wife >>> >>> >>> >>> Aeltje Jacobsen; maiden >>> >>> >>> >>> Willem Petersen, from Amersfoort [Van Slyke aka Neef, the nephew of > Lorine >>> McGinnis Schulze's Cornelis Antonissen Van Slyke] >>> >>> >>> >>> Claes Tysen, cooper, and two children >>> >>> >>> >>> March 1662 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund > Bailey >>> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >>> >>> >>> >>> Lysbert Harmens, from the Traert >>> >>> >>> >>> Jan Gerrits, from Embden; labourer >>> >>> >>> >>> Jacob Wouters, from Amsterdam >>> >>> >>> >>> Barent Witten Hooft, from Munster, Tailor, and Wife and two children >>> >>> >>> >>> Stoffel Smet, from Keurlo; Agriculturist >>> >>> >>> >>> Precilla Homes, and her brother, and one suckling >>> >>> >>> >>> Thomas Harmensen Brouwers, from Sevenbergen; farmer >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Symon Cornie; farmer from France, and Wife >>> >>> >>> >>> Adriaen Gerritsen, from Utrecht; Agriculturist, and Wife and five > children >>> >>> >>> >>> Albert Jansen, from Steenwyck; Tailor >>> >>> >>> >>> Reinier Petersen, from Steenwyck; Agriculturer >>> >>> >>> >>> Claes van Campen, from Oldenburg; farmer's boy >>> >>> >>> >>> Adriaen Aartsen from Thillerwarden in Guilderland >>> >>> >>> >>> Hendrick Arentsen, from the same place; labourer >>> >>> >>> >>> January 1664 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund >> Bailey >>> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >>> >>> >>> >>> Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer >>> >>> >>> >>> Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda >>> >>> >>> >>> Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child >>> >>> >>> >>> Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children >>> >>> >>> >>> Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum >>> >>> >>> >>> Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >>> >>> >>> >>> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara > Teunis >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

You mean Sara, wife of Jan, having a child named Sara witnessed by Sara and a son of a Jan after sailing on a ship with a Sara who marries a Jan, who has a child named Jan (witnessed by a Jan)? Odds are, if we had the history of Lysbet and John Salme, and that of the witnesses, we could work in several more Sara and Jan's. Just coincidence. And now that you point this out, Sara could not since Lysbeth's, since it's extremely unlikely that Lysbeth would have two living children named Sara. On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > Is this just coincidental to you? > > Lysbeth De Roode from Danzig and child (wife of John Salme) and her child > three years old came to New Netherland by the De Trouw, which sailed January > 20, 1664.  Six months later her daughter Sara was baptized in New Amsterdam. > > > 1664 Jul 23; Jan Salmie, Lysbeth Roden; Sara; Lambert Janszen Bosch, Sara > Ver Plancken, Barbara Willems > > -----Original Message----- > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:10 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > > It sources Olive Tree, which is the source of the list I pasted. They > attributed Sara Teunis as the child of Lysbet, when there is no reason > to assume Sara is the child, and reason to believe she is not. Indeed, > Olive Tree delinates the two entries as separate people. > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Susan Claggett > <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >> The link was stripped.  I will try again. >> http://www.slideshare.net/rhokel/index-to-new-netherland-ships-1660 >> >> More than half of my messages are returned to me for no apparent >> reason...frustrating. >> Susan >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 5:43 PM >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of >> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> >> I'm not sure of your source, but whatever the source is, it apparently >> makes the mistake of assigning Lysbet De Roode's child to Sara >> Theunis, listed below her. This is an error. Her child is not named, >> nor is the "suckling child" of above him of Cornelius, or the four >> children above him of Johannis, or the child of Lysbet above him. >> >> Here is the ship list: >> Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer >> Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda >> Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child >> Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children >> Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum >> Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child >> Sara Teunis >> >> Clearly Sara Teunis is NOT the child of Lysbet de Roode, and is either >> an adult. This is still the best bet for our Sara based on available >> evidence presented thus far. >> >> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Susan Claggett >> <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara > Teunis >>> >>> >>> >>> The Faith (De Trouw) passenger list shows Sara Teunis as a child on the >>> passenger list.  It is my opinion that if she were a single young woman >> (and >>> our Sara Teunis) it would have stated maiden behind her name and from > like >>> the others on this list.  This is not our Sara Teunis. >>> >>> >>> >>> Susan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The Faith (De Trouw) >>> >>> December 13 1660. Captain Jan Jans Bestevaer from Lists Of Inhabitants Of >>> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >>> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >>> >>> >>> >>> Christiaen de Lorie, from St Malo, wife, mother and sister >>> >>> >>> >>> Hendrick Jansen Spier and Wife and two children 4 and 5 yrs old >>> >>> >>> >>> Adriaen Huybertsen Sterrevelt; Agriculturist >>> >>> >>> >>> Harmen Stepfer, from the Dutchy of Cleef >>> >>> >>> >>> Joost Adriaensen Pynacker, from Delft >>> >>> >>> >>> Philip Langelens; Agriculturist, and Wife and two children >>> >>> >>> >>> Hendrick Bos, from Leyden, and Wife and two children >>> >>> >>> >>> Gerrit Gerritsen, from Wageningen, and Wife and one child. >>> >>> >>> >>> William Aertsen, from Wagening. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Gerrit van Manen, from Wagening >>> >>> >>> >>> Albert Gerritsen, from Wagening. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jan Gerritsen Hagel >>> >>> >>> >>> Hendrick Jansen, from Wagening >>> >>> >>> >>> Jan Aertsen, from Amersfoort >>> >>> >>> >>> Tys Jansen, from Amersfoort >>> >>> >>> >>> Wessel Wesselsen, from Munster >>> >>> >>> >>> Adolph Hardenbroeck, and Wife and Son 25 yrs old. (Pieter Rudolphus > agrees >>> to pay passage for the son of Adolph) >>> >>> >>> >>> Claes Theunissen, from Gorcum, and his servant, and boy >>> >>> >>> >>> Lubbert Harmensen, from Overyssel >>> >>> >>> >>> Lammert Huybertsen, [Brink?] from Wagening, and Wife and two children >>> >>> >>> >>> Jan Harmans and Wife and sucking child >>> >>> >>> >>> Roeloft Hendricks from Drenthe >>> >>> >>> >>> Femmetje Hendricksen, maiden >>> >>> >>> >>> Maria Mooris, from Arnhem, maiden >>> >>> >>> >>> Marten Abrahamsen, from Bloemendael, and Wife and two children >>> >>> >>> >>> The Wife of Hans Sodurat, Baker, and two children >>> >>> >>> >>> Leendert Arentsen Groenevelt, and Wife >>> >>> >>> >>> Aeltje Jacobsen; maiden >>> >>> >>> >>> Willem Petersen, from Amersfoort [Van Slyke aka Neef, the nephew of > Lorine >>> McGinnis Schulze's Cornelis Antonissen Van Slyke] >>> >>> >>> >>> Claes Tysen, cooper, and two children >>> >>> >>> >>> March 1662 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund > Bailey >>> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >>> >>> >>> >>> Lysbert Harmens, from the Traert >>> >>> >>> >>> Jan Gerrits, from Embden; labourer >>> >>> >>> >>> Jacob Wouters, from Amsterdam >>> >>> >>> >>> Barent Witten Hooft, from Munster, Tailor, and Wife and two children >>> >>> >>> >>> Stoffel Smet, from Keurlo; Agriculturist >>> >>> >>> >>> Precilla Homes, and her brother, and one suckling >>> >>> >>> >>> Thomas Harmensen Brouwers, from Sevenbergen; farmer >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Symon Cornie; farmer from France, and Wife >>> >>> >>> >>> Adriaen Gerritsen, from Utrecht; Agriculturist, and Wife and five > children >>> >>> >>> >>> Albert Jansen, from Steenwyck; Tailor >>> >>> >>> >>> Reinier Petersen, from Steenwyck; Agriculturer >>> >>> >>> >>> Claes van Campen, from Oldenburg; farmer's boy >>> >>> >>> >>> Adriaen Aartsen from Thillerwarden in Guilderland >>> >>> >>> >>> Hendrick Arentsen, from the same place; labourer >>> >>> >>> >>> January 1664 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund >> Bailey >>> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >>> >>> >>> >>> Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer >>> >>> >>> >>> Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda >>> >>> >>> >>> Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child >>> >>> >>> >>> Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children >>> >>> >>> >>> Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum >>> >>> >>> >>> Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >>> >>> >>> >>> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara > Teunis >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Is this just coincidental to you? Lysbeth De Roode from Danzig and child (wife of John Salme) and her child three years old came to New Netherland by the De Trouw, which sailed January 20, 1664. Six months later her daughter Sara was baptized in New Amsterdam. 1664 Jul 23; Jan Salmie, Lysbeth Roden; Sara; Lambert Janszen Bosch, Sara Ver Plancken, Barbara Willems -----Original Message----- From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:10 PM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 It sources Olive Tree, which is the source of the list I pasted. They attributed Sara Teunis as the child of Lysbet, when there is no reason to assume Sara is the child, and reason to believe she is not. Indeed, Olive Tree delinates the two entries as separate people. On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > The link was stripped.  I will try again. > http://www.slideshare.net/rhokel/index-to-new-netherland-ships-1660 > > More than half of my messages are returned to me for no apparent > reason...frustrating. > Susan > -----Original Message----- > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 5:43 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > > I'm not sure of your source, but whatever the source is, it apparently > makes the mistake of assigning Lysbet De Roode's child to Sara > Theunis, listed below her. This is an error. Her child is not named, > nor is the "suckling child" of above him of Cornelius, or the four > children above him of Johannis, or the child of Lysbet above him. > > Here is the ship list: > Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer > Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda > Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child > Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children > Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum > Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child > Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child > Sara Teunis > > Clearly Sara Teunis is NOT the child of Lysbet de Roode, and is either > an adult. This is still the best bet for our Sara based on available > evidence presented thus far. > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Susan Claggett > <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara Teunis >> >> >> >> The Faith (De Trouw) passenger list shows Sara Teunis as a child on the >> passenger list.  It is my opinion that if she were a single young woman > (and >> our Sara Teunis) it would have stated maiden behind her name and from like >> the others on this list.  This is not our Sara Teunis. >> >> >> >> Susan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The Faith (De Trouw) >> >> December 13 1660. Captain Jan Jans Bestevaer from Lists Of Inhabitants Of >> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> >> >> >> Christiaen de Lorie, from St Malo, wife, mother and sister >> >> >> >> Hendrick Jansen Spier and Wife and two children 4 and 5 yrs old >> >> >> >> Adriaen Huybertsen Sterrevelt; Agriculturist >> >> >> >> Harmen Stepfer, from the Dutchy of Cleef >> >> >> >> Joost Adriaensen Pynacker, from Delft >> >> >> >> Philip Langelens; Agriculturist, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> Hendrick Bos, from Leyden, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> Gerrit Gerritsen, from Wageningen, and Wife and one child. >> >> >> >> William Aertsen, from Wagening. >> >> >> >> >> >> Gerrit van Manen, from Wagening >> >> >> >> Albert Gerritsen, from Wagening. >> >> >> >> Jan Gerritsen Hagel >> >> >> >> Hendrick Jansen, from Wagening >> >> >> >> Jan Aertsen, from Amersfoort >> >> >> >> Tys Jansen, from Amersfoort >> >> >> >> Wessel Wesselsen, from Munster >> >> >> >> Adolph Hardenbroeck, and Wife and Son 25 yrs old. (Pieter Rudolphus agrees >> to pay passage for the son of Adolph) >> >> >> >> Claes Theunissen, from Gorcum, and his servant, and boy >> >> >> >> Lubbert Harmensen, from Overyssel >> >> >> >> Lammert Huybertsen, [Brink?] from Wagening, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> Jan Harmans and Wife and sucking child >> >> >> >> Roeloft Hendricks from Drenthe >> >> >> >> Femmetje Hendricksen, maiden >> >> >> >> Maria Mooris, from Arnhem, maiden >> >> >> >> Marten Abrahamsen, from Bloemendael, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> The Wife of Hans Sodurat, Baker, and two children >> >> >> >> Leendert Arentsen Groenevelt, and Wife >> >> >> >> Aeltje Jacobsen; maiden >> >> >> >> Willem Petersen, from Amersfoort [Van Slyke aka Neef, the nephew of Lorine >> McGinnis Schulze's Cornelis Antonissen Van Slyke] >> >> >> >> Claes Tysen, cooper, and two children >> >> >> >> March 1662 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey >> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> >> >> >> Lysbert Harmens, from the Traert >> >> >> >> Jan Gerrits, from Embden; labourer >> >> >> >> Jacob Wouters, from Amsterdam >> >> >> >> Barent Witten Hooft, from Munster, Tailor, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> Stoffel Smet, from Keurlo; Agriculturist >> >> >> >> Precilla Homes, and her brother, and one suckling >> >> >> >> Thomas Harmensen Brouwers, from Sevenbergen; farmer >> >> >> >> >> >> Symon Cornie; farmer from France, and Wife >> >> >> >> Adriaen Gerritsen, from Utrecht; Agriculturist, and Wife and five children >> >> >> >> Albert Jansen, from Steenwyck; Tailor >> >> >> >> Reinier Petersen, from Steenwyck; Agriculturer >> >> >> >> Claes van Campen, from Oldenburg; farmer's boy >> >> >> >> Adriaen Aartsen from Thillerwarden in Guilderland >> >> >> >> Hendrick Arentsen, from the same place; labourer >> >> >> >> January 1664 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund > Bailey >> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> >> >> >> Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer >> >> >> >> Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda >> >> >> >> Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child >> >> >> >> Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children >> >> >> >> Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum >> >> >> >> Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >> >> >> >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara Teunis >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It sources Olive Tree, which is the source of the list I pasted. They attributed Sara Teunis as the child of Lysbet, when there is no reason to assume Sara is the child, and reason to believe she is not. Indeed, Olive Tree delinates the two entries as separate people. On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > The link was stripped.  I will try again. > http://www.slideshare.net/rhokel/index-to-new-netherland-ships-1660 > > More than half of my messages are returned to me for no apparent > reason...frustrating. > Susan > -----Original Message----- > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 5:43 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > > I'm not sure of your source, but whatever the source is, it apparently > makes the mistake of assigning Lysbet De Roode's child to Sara > Theunis, listed below her. This is an error. Her child is not named, > nor is the "suckling child" of above him of Cornelius, or the four > children above him of Johannis, or the child of Lysbet above him. > > Here is the ship list: > Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer > Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda > Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child > Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children > Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum > Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child > Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child > Sara Teunis > > Clearly Sara Teunis is NOT the child of Lysbet de Roode, and is either > an adult. This is still the best bet for our Sara based on available > evidence presented thus far. > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Susan Claggett > <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara Teunis >> >> >> >> The Faith (De Trouw) passenger list shows Sara Teunis as a child on the >> passenger list.  It is my opinion that if she were a single young woman > (and >> our Sara Teunis) it would have stated maiden behind her name and from like >> the others on this list.  This is not our Sara Teunis. >> >> >> >> Susan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The Faith (De Trouw) >> >> December 13 1660. Captain Jan Jans Bestevaer from Lists Of Inhabitants Of >> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> >> >> >> Christiaen de Lorie, from St Malo, wife, mother and sister >> >> >> >> Hendrick Jansen Spier and Wife and two children 4 and 5 yrs old >> >> >> >> Adriaen Huybertsen Sterrevelt; Agriculturist >> >> >> >> Harmen Stepfer, from the Dutchy of Cleef >> >> >> >> Joost Adriaensen Pynacker, from Delft >> >> >> >> Philip Langelens; Agriculturist, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> Hendrick Bos, from Leyden, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> Gerrit Gerritsen, from Wageningen, and Wife and one child. >> >> >> >> William Aertsen, from Wagening. >> >> >> >> >> >> Gerrit van Manen, from Wagening >> >> >> >> Albert Gerritsen, from Wagening. >> >> >> >> Jan Gerritsen Hagel >> >> >> >> Hendrick Jansen, from Wagening >> >> >> >> Jan Aertsen, from Amersfoort >> >> >> >> Tys Jansen, from Amersfoort >> >> >> >> Wessel Wesselsen, from Munster >> >> >> >> Adolph Hardenbroeck, and Wife and Son 25 yrs old. (Pieter Rudolphus agrees >> to pay passage for the son of Adolph) >> >> >> >> Claes Theunissen, from Gorcum, and his servant, and boy >> >> >> >> Lubbert Harmensen, from Overyssel >> >> >> >> Lammert Huybertsen, [Brink?] from Wagening, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> Jan Harmans and Wife and sucking child >> >> >> >> Roeloft Hendricks from Drenthe >> >> >> >> Femmetje Hendricksen, maiden >> >> >> >> Maria Mooris, from Arnhem, maiden >> >> >> >> Marten Abrahamsen, from Bloemendael, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> The Wife of Hans Sodurat, Baker, and two children >> >> >> >> Leendert Arentsen Groenevelt, and Wife >> >> >> >> Aeltje Jacobsen; maiden >> >> >> >> Willem Petersen, from Amersfoort [Van Slyke aka Neef, the nephew of Lorine >> McGinnis Schulze's Cornelis Antonissen Van Slyke] >> >> >> >> Claes Tysen, cooper, and two children >> >> >> >> March 1662 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey >> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> >> >> >> Lysbert Harmens, from the Traert >> >> >> >> Jan Gerrits, from Embden; labourer >> >> >> >> Jacob Wouters, from Amsterdam >> >> >> >> Barent Witten Hooft, from Munster, Tailor, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> Stoffel Smet, from Keurlo; Agriculturist >> >> >> >> Precilla Homes, and her brother, and one suckling >> >> >> >> Thomas Harmensen Brouwers, from Sevenbergen; farmer >> >> >> >> >> >> Symon Cornie; farmer from France, and Wife >> >> >> >> Adriaen Gerritsen, from Utrecht; Agriculturist, and Wife and five children >> >> >> >> Albert Jansen, from Steenwyck; Tailor >> >> >> >> Reinier Petersen, from Steenwyck; Agriculturer >> >> >> >> Claes van Campen, from Oldenburg; farmer's boy >> >> >> >> Adriaen Aartsen from Thillerwarden in Guilderland >> >> >> >> Hendrick Arentsen, from the same place; labourer >> >> >> >> January 1664 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund > Bailey >> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> >> >> >> Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer >> >> >> >> Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda >> >> >> >> Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child >> >> >> >> Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children >> >> >> >> Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum >> >> >> >> Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >> >> >> >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara Teunis >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The link was stripped. I will try again. http://www.slideshare.net/rhokel/index-to-new-netherland-ships-1660 More than half of my messages are returned to me for no apparent reason...frustrating. Susan -----Original Message----- From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 5:43 PM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 I'm not sure of your source, but whatever the source is, it apparently makes the mistake of assigning Lysbet De Roode's child to Sara Theunis, listed below her. This is an error. Her child is not named, nor is the "suckling child" of above him of Cornelius, or the four children above him of Johannis, or the child of Lysbet above him. Here is the ship list: Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara Teunis Clearly Sara Teunis is NOT the child of Lysbet de Roode, and is either an adult. This is still the best bet for our Sara based on available evidence presented thus far. On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > > > > > Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara Teunis > > > > The Faith (De Trouw) passenger list shows Sara Teunis as a child on the > passenger list.  It is my opinion that if she were a single young woman (and > our Sara Teunis) it would have stated maiden behind her name and from like > the others on this list.  This is not our Sara Teunis. > > > > Susan > > > > > > > > The Faith (De Trouw) > > December 13 1660. Captain Jan Jans Bestevaer from Lists Of Inhabitants Of > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > > > > Christiaen de Lorie, from St Malo, wife, mother and sister > > > > Hendrick Jansen Spier and Wife and two children 4 and 5 yrs old > > > > Adriaen Huybertsen Sterrevelt; Agriculturist > > > > Harmen Stepfer, from the Dutchy of Cleef > > > > Joost Adriaensen Pynacker, from Delft > > > > Philip Langelens; Agriculturist, and Wife and two children > > > > Hendrick Bos, from Leyden, and Wife and two children > > > > Gerrit Gerritsen, from Wageningen, and Wife and one child. > > > > William Aertsen, from Wagening. > > > > > > Gerrit van Manen, from Wagening > > > > Albert Gerritsen, from Wagening. > > > > Jan Gerritsen Hagel > > > > Hendrick Jansen, from Wagening > > > > Jan Aertsen, from Amersfoort > > > > Tys Jansen, from Amersfoort > > > > Wessel Wesselsen, from Munster > > > > Adolph Hardenbroeck, and Wife and Son 25 yrs old. (Pieter Rudolphus agrees > to pay passage for the son of Adolph) > > > > Claes Theunissen, from Gorcum, and his servant, and boy > > > > Lubbert Harmensen, from Overyssel > > > > Lammert Huybertsen, [Brink?] from Wagening, and Wife and two children > > > > Jan Harmans and Wife and sucking child > > > > Roeloft Hendricks from Drenthe > > > > Femmetje Hendricksen, maiden > > > > Maria Mooris, from Arnhem, maiden > > > > Marten Abrahamsen, from Bloemendael, and Wife and two children > > > > The Wife of Hans Sodurat, Baker, and two children > > > > Leendert Arentsen Groenevelt, and Wife > > > > Aeltje Jacobsen; maiden > > > > Willem Petersen, from Amersfoort [Van Slyke aka Neef, the nephew of Lorine > McGinnis Schulze's Cornelis Antonissen Van Slyke] > > > > Claes Tysen, cooper, and two children > > > > March 1662 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey > O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > > > > Lysbert Harmens, from the Traert > > > > Jan Gerrits, from Embden; labourer > > > > Jacob Wouters, from Amsterdam > > > > Barent Witten Hooft, from Munster, Tailor, and Wife and two children > > > > Stoffel Smet, from Keurlo; Agriculturist > > > > Precilla Homes, and her brother, and one suckling > > > > Thomas Harmensen Brouwers, from Sevenbergen; farmer > > > > > > Symon Cornie; farmer from France, and Wife > > > > Adriaen Gerritsen, from Utrecht; Agriculturist, and Wife and five children > > > > Albert Jansen, from Steenwyck; Tailor > > > > Reinier Petersen, from Steenwyck; Agriculturer > > > > Claes van Campen, from Oldenburg; farmer's boy > > > > Adriaen Aartsen from Thillerwarden in Guilderland > > > > Hendrick Arentsen, from the same place; labourer > > > > January 1664 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey > O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > > > > Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer > > > > Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda > > > > Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child > > > > Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children > > > > Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum > > > > Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child > > > > Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara Teunis > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm not sure of your source, but whatever the source is, it apparently makes the mistake of assigning Lysbet De Roode's child to Sara Theunis, listed below her. This is an error. Her child is not named, nor is the "suckling child" of above him of Cornelius, or the four children above him of Johannis, or the child of Lysbet above him. Here is the ship list: Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara Teunis Clearly Sara Teunis is NOT the child of Lysbet de Roode, and is either an adult. This is still the best bet for our Sara based on available evidence presented thus far. On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > > > > > Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara Teunis > > > > The Faith (De Trouw) passenger list shows Sara Teunis as a child on the > passenger list.  It is my opinion that if she were a single young woman (and > our Sara Teunis) it would have stated maiden behind her name and from like > the others on this list.  This is not our Sara Teunis. > > > > Susan > > > > > > > > The Faith (De Trouw) > > December 13 1660. Captain Jan Jans Bestevaer from Lists Of Inhabitants Of > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > > > > Christiaen de Lorie, from St Malo, wife, mother and sister > > > > Hendrick Jansen Spier and Wife and two children 4 and 5 yrs old > > > > Adriaen Huybertsen Sterrevelt; Agriculturist > > > > Harmen Stepfer, from the Dutchy of Cleef > > > > Joost Adriaensen Pynacker, from Delft > > > > Philip Langelens; Agriculturist, and Wife and two children > > > > Hendrick Bos, from Leyden, and Wife and two children > > > > Gerrit Gerritsen, from Wageningen, and Wife and one child. > > > > William Aertsen, from Wagening. > > > > > > Gerrit van Manen, from Wagening > > > > Albert Gerritsen, from Wagening. > > > > Jan Gerritsen Hagel > > > > Hendrick Jansen, from Wagening > > > > Jan Aertsen, from Amersfoort > > > > Tys Jansen, from Amersfoort > > > > Wessel Wesselsen, from Munster > > > > Adolph Hardenbroeck, and Wife and Son 25 yrs old. (Pieter Rudolphus agrees > to pay passage for the son of Adolph) > > > > Claes Theunissen, from Gorcum, and his servant, and boy > > > > Lubbert Harmensen, from Overyssel > > > > Lammert Huybertsen, [Brink?] from Wagening, and Wife and two children > > > > Jan Harmans and Wife and sucking child > > > > Roeloft Hendricks from Drenthe > > > > Femmetje Hendricksen, maiden > > > > Maria Mooris, from Arnhem, maiden > > > > Marten Abrahamsen, from Bloemendael, and Wife and two children > > > > The Wife of Hans Sodurat, Baker, and two children > > > > Leendert Arentsen Groenevelt, and Wife > > > > Aeltje Jacobsen; maiden > > > > Willem Petersen, from Amersfoort [Van Slyke aka Neef, the nephew of Lorine > McGinnis Schulze's Cornelis Antonissen Van Slyke] > > > > Claes Tysen, cooper, and two children > > > > March 1662 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey > O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > > > > Lysbert Harmens, from the Traert > > > > Jan Gerrits, from Embden; labourer > > > > Jacob Wouters, from Amsterdam > > > > Barent Witten Hooft, from Munster, Tailor, and Wife and two children > > > > Stoffel Smet, from Keurlo; Agriculturist > > > > Precilla Homes, and her brother, and one suckling > > > > Thomas Harmensen Brouwers, from Sevenbergen; farmer > > > > > > Symon Cornie; farmer from France, and Wife > > > > Adriaen Gerritsen, from Utrecht; Agriculturist, and Wife and five children > > > > Albert Jansen, from Steenwyck; Tailor > > > > Reinier Petersen, from Steenwyck; Agriculturer > > > > Claes van Campen, from Oldenburg; farmer's boy > > > > Adriaen Aartsen from Thillerwarden in Guilderland > > > > Hendrick Arentsen, from the same place; labourer > > > > January 1664 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey > O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > > > > Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer > > > > Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda > > > > Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child > > > > Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children > > > > Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum > > > > Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child > > > > Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara Teunis > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara Teunis The Faith (De Trouw) passenger list shows Sara Teunis as a child on the passenger list. It is my opinion that if she were a single young woman (and our Sara Teunis) it would have stated maiden behind her name and from like the others on this list. This is not our Sara Teunis. Susan The Faith (De Trouw) December 13 1660. Captain Jan Jans Bestevaer from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 Christiaen de Lorie, from St Malo, wife, mother and sister Hendrick Jansen Spier and Wife and two children 4 and 5 yrs old Adriaen Huybertsen Sterrevelt; Agriculturist Harmen Stepfer, from the Dutchy of Cleef Joost Adriaensen Pynacker, from Delft Philip Langelens; Agriculturist, and Wife and two children Hendrick Bos, from Leyden, and Wife and two children Gerrit Gerritsen, from Wageningen, and Wife and one child. William Aertsen, from Wagening. Gerrit van Manen, from Wagening Albert Gerritsen, from Wagening. Jan Gerritsen Hagel Hendrick Jansen, from Wagening Jan Aertsen, from Amersfoort Tys Jansen, from Amersfoort Wessel Wesselsen, from Munster Adolph Hardenbroeck, and Wife and Son 25 yrs old. (Pieter Rudolphus agrees to pay passage for the son of Adolph) Claes Theunissen, from Gorcum, and his servant, and boy Lubbert Harmensen, from Overyssel Lammert Huybertsen, [Brink?] from Wagening, and Wife and two children Jan Harmans and Wife and sucking child Roeloft Hendricks from Drenthe Femmetje Hendricksen, maiden Maria Mooris, from Arnhem, maiden Marten Abrahamsen, from Bloemendael, and Wife and two children The Wife of Hans Sodurat, Baker, and two children Leendert Arentsen Groenevelt, and Wife Aeltje Jacobsen; maiden Willem Petersen, from Amersfoort [Van Slyke aka Neef, the nephew of Lorine McGinnis Schulze's Cornelis Antonissen Van Slyke] Claes Tysen, cooper, and two children March 1662 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 Lysbert Harmens, from the Traert Jan Gerrits, from Embden; labourer Jacob Wouters, from Amsterdam Barent Witten Hooft, from Munster, Tailor, and Wife and two children Stoffel Smet, from Keurlo; Agriculturist Precilla Homes, and her brother, and one suckling Thomas Harmensen Brouwers, from Sevenbergen; farmer Symon Cornie; farmer from France, and Wife Adriaen Gerritsen, from Utrecht; Agriculturist, and Wife and five children Albert Jansen, from Steenwyck; Tailor Reinier Petersen, from Steenwyck; Agriculturer Claes van Campen, from Oldenburg; farmer's boy Adriaen Aartsen from Thillerwarden in Guilderland Hendrick Arentsen, from the same place; labourer January 1664 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara Teunis

http://books.google.com/books?id=gIwsAAAAYAAJ <http://books.google.com/books?id=gIwsAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA428&lpg=PA428&dq=Lysbeth +De+Roode+1640&source=bl&ots=SNaMS8kcUc&sig=ZdzPtt_YH_K9CROFsq2wQDc_3K4&hl=e n&ei=mpjITJD6OoOdlgej49DoAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBgQ 6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false> &pg=PA428&lpg=PA428&dq=Lysbeth+De+Roode+1640&source=bl&ots=SNaMS8kcUc&sig=Zd zPtt_YH_K9CROFsq2wQDc_3K4&hl=en&ei=mpjITJD6OoOdlgej49DoAQ&sa=X&oi=book_resul t&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false Lysbeth De Roode from Danzig and child (wife of John Salme) and her child three years old came to New Netherland by the De Trouw, which sailed January 20, 1664. Six months later her daughter Sara was baptized in New Amsterdam. 1664 Jul 23; Jan Salmie, Lysbeth Roden; Sara; Lambert Janszen Bosch, Sara Ver Plancken, Barbara Willems My theory strengthens. I pretty much have the family tree together and will share soon. Regards, Susan Claggett

I believe my theory is coming together. Has anyone else been working on this? Anyone interested in discussing it more? Regards Susan Van Orman Claggett

Do we have any definitive or estimated dates of death for either of them? Thanks Susan

Not brewery. Bouwerij/etc. is "farm". In this case, "Stuyvestant's Bouwery". I'm not sure the Eckersons lived on the Bouwery proper; I think the designation eventually came to indicate any location in mid-to-upper Manhattan. The Eckersons are also listed as living "beyond the fresh water", a pond to the north of the city. One listing puts them at a location called "Kromeresh". I believe based on that and another record that they lived at roughly the present-day location of Gramercy Park. (Actually a couple of blocks south and west.) So probably did the Burroughs family and the Van Arnhems, considering their intermarriages. --pete ----- Original Message ----- From: <jroguetech@gmail.com> To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] another source of New Amsterdam records "aen de" is "of the" or "unto the". "Bouwer" is builder. According to Google translate "bouwerij" is brewery. Looking for other uses of "aen de", and they apparently refer to places, at least generally. "aen de Manhatans" "aen de Deutelbay" "aen de groote Kill" (groote = great; Kill is a place) "aen de Zuyt rivier" "aen de Oesterbay" And finally, "aen de armen Bouwerye. N. Haerlem". On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Ed Leifer <edleifer@rcn.com> wrote: > As someone who grew up across the Hudson from Manhattan (in Jersey City) > and > is somewhat familiar with the Manhattan, the first thing that came to mind > for me was the street, The Bowery. The Bowery is supposed to be the oldest > street in the city. A little checking showed that Bowery was itself a > bastardization of the Dutch "Bouwerij" or farm. Bowery Lane apparently > originally led to Peter Stuyvesant's farm hence Bowery (Farm) Lane. I > wonder > if Bouwerye is just another bastardization of Bouwerij. > > Ed Leifer > > He has showed you, O man, what is good. > And what does the Lord require of you? > To act Justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God. > Micah 6:8 (NIV) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: vannorman-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:vannorman-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Linda Schwenn > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 6:50 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] another source of New Amsterdam records > > It was not in this online translator > http://www.freedict.com/onldict/dut.html > <http://www.freedict.com/onldict/dut.html>which I've found useful before. > > On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 3:49 PM, <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Abaham and Sara Eckerson's marriage: >> 1695 08 Jan; Abraham Janszen Van Aernem, jm, van Mitspatskill; Sara >> Eckeson, jd, aen de Bouwerye, beyde woonende alheir. A >> >> What does "aen de Bouwerye" translate to? >> >> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:46 PM, <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: >> > I believe these are the same records as found elsewhere (BHIC, >> > Olivetree, etc.). I alsi believe all of these are from the same >> > transcription of the same book, Records of the Reformed Dutch Church >> > in New Amsterdam and New York (aka Collections of the New York >> > Genealogical and Biographical Society Vol II). I switched to using >> > "Ancestral Things" site (used to use BHIC), because the editer claims >> > to actually have corrected some original transcription errors. Perhaps >> > some day Google will scan the original book. Also, since Ancestral >> > Things includes Albany, Schenectady, and elsewhere, makes it a bit >> > easier to source stuff. >> > > http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rbillard/vital_statistics.htm<http:/ > /homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Erbillard/vital_statistics.htm> >> > >> > Jan Dirckszen had eight children, all of whose Baptisms are found in >> > the N.A. records: >> > 1664 Dec 31; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt >> > 1669 Aug 18; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Magdalena; Jilles Joosten, >> > Maria Wouters >> > 1671 Jun 04; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara Theunis; Jan; Jan >> > Laurenszen Duyts, Mayken Laurens >> > 1673 Apr 09; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Abraham; Jean le Maistre, >> > Susanna Le Maistre >> > 1675 Jul 14; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Thomas; Marie; Willem Van Leyden >> > 1677 Sep 26; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Catharina; David >> > Hendrickszen, Tryntie Hercks >> > 1680 Apr 03; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Isaac (twin); Daniel >> > Terneur, Hester de La Maistre, Marritie Pieters >> > 1680 Apr 03; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Jacob (twin); Daniel >> > Terneur, Hester de La Maistre, Marritie Pieters >> > >> > Marriage records: >> > 1696 14 Oct; Jan Jansz Van Aarnem, ym liv Albany; Hester Fonda, yd liv >> > Albany [Albany records] >> > 1695 08 Jan; Abraham Janszen Van Aernem, jm, van Mitspatskill; Sara >> > Eckeson, jd, aen de Bouwerye, beyde woonende alheir. A >> > 1696 03 Jun; Jan Ekkinszen, jm van Stuyvesants bouwerje; Maryken Jans, >> > jd van N. Yorck, beyde woonende alhier >> > >> > >> > On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Stephen Wood <stephe.w300@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Hi! >> >> >> >> I just noticed that the Netherlands Vital Statistics website >> >> www.genlias.nl has transcriptions of the early records of the >> "Collegiate >> >> Church of New York" as they call it and many of our early Van Arnhem >> etc. >> >> records are listed there under various spellings. (with and without > the >> Van >> >> Arn(h)*m) >> >> >> >> It would be interesting to determine if they were taken from > copies >> of >> >> records sent "home" near the time of their creation (i.e. - yearly?) >> >> or >> from >> >> copies of records sent over in the 1900's or later...... >> >> >> >> I note a couple of baptisms for children that I didn't have listed >> - >> >> sons of Abraham Van Arn(h)em and Maria Hijningen (etc.) >> >> >> >> Isaac bpt. 8 Oct. 1729 >> >> Jan bpt. 19 May 1736 >> >> as well as Abraham 31 October 1739 (who I did have.....) >> >> >> >> Are these new entries, or was I just missing them...... [The first two >> are >> >> not on any of the VN websites that I can see] >> >> >> >> Also, the 1671 baptism for Jan lists his parents as Jan Dircxzen van >> Aernhem >> >> and Sara Theunis - so it does appear that Jan Dircxzen (sic) did refer >> to >> >> himself at least once as "van Arnhem"...... although perhaps he was >> still >> >> using it as a place name and not a surname as later children didn't > have >> >> it..... >> >> >> >> Food for thought, >> >> >> >> Stephen >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Turtle Bay. ----- Original Message ----- From: "WR Cummins" <raymond.cummins@utoronto.ca> To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Deutelbay I have someone who was from Op de Deutelbay. Does that phrase mean anything to anyone? Is there a modern place-name equivalent to Deutlebay? Ray -----Original Message----- From: vannorman-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:vannorman-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of jroguetech@gmail.com Sent: October 23, 2010 10:00 PM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] another source of New Amsterdam records "aen de" is "of the" or "unto the". "Bouwer" is builder. According to Google translate "bouwerij" is brewery. Looking for other uses of "aen de", and they apparently refer to places, at least generally. "aen de Manhatans" "aen de Deutelbay" "aen de groote Kill" (groote = great; Kill is a place) "aen de Zuyt rivier" "aen de Oesterbay" And finally, "aen de armen Bouwerye. N. Haerlem". On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Ed Leifer <edleifer@rcn.com> wrote: > As someone who grew up across the Hudson from Manhattan (in Jersey City) and > is somewhat familiar with the Manhattan, the first thing that came to mind > for me was the street, The Bowery. The Bowery is supposed to be the oldest > street in the city. A little checking showed that Bowery was itself a > bastardization of the Dutch "Bouwerij" or farm. Bowery Lane apparently > originally led to Peter Stuyvesant's farm hence Bowery (Farm) Lane. I wonder > if Bouwerye is just another bastardization of Bouwerij. > > Ed Leifer > > He has showed you, O man, what is good. > And what does the Lord require of you? > To act Justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God. > Micah 6:8 (NIV) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: vannorman-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:vannorman-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Linda Schwenn > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 6:50 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] another source of New Amsterdam records > > It was not in this online translator > http://www.freedict.com/onldict/dut.html > <http://www.freedict.com/onldict/dut.html>which I've found useful before. > > On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 3:49 PM, <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Abaham and Sara Eckerson's marriage: >> 1695 08 Jan; Abraham Janszen Van Aernem, jm, van Mitspatskill; Sara >> Eckeson, jd, aen de Bouwerye, beyde woonende alheir. A >> >> What does "aen de Bouwerye" translate to? >> >> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:46 PM, <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: >> > I believe these are the same records as found elsewhere (BHIC, >> > Olivetree, etc.). I alsi believe all of these are from the same >> > transcription of the same book, Records of the Reformed Dutch Church >> > in New Amsterdam and New York (aka Collections of the New York >> > Genealogical and Biographical Society Vol II). I switched to using >> > "Ancestral Things" site (used to use BHIC), because the editer claims >> > to actually have corrected some original transcription errors. Perhaps >> > some day Google will scan the original book. Also, since Ancestral >> > Things includes Albany, Schenectady, and elsewhere, makes it a bit >> > easier to source stuff. >> > > http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rbillard/vital_statistics.htm<http:/ > /homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Erbillard/vital_statistics.htm> >> > >> > Jan Dirckszen had eight children, all of whose Baptisms are found in >> > the N.A. records: >> > 1664 Dec 31; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt >> > 1669 Aug 18; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Magdalena; Jilles Joosten, >> > Maria Wouters >> > 1671 Jun 04; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara Theunis; Jan; Jan >> > Laurenszen Duyts, Mayken Laurens >> > 1673 Apr 09; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Abraham; Jean le Maistre, >> > Susanna Le Maistre >> > 1675 Jul 14; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Thomas; Marie; Willem Van Leyden >> > 1677 Sep 26; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Catharina; David >> > Hendrickszen, Tryntie Hercks >> > 1680 Apr 03; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Isaac (twin); Daniel >> > Terneur, Hester de La Maistre, Marritie Pieters >> > 1680 Apr 03; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Jacob (twin); Daniel >> > Terneur, Hester de La Maistre, Marritie Pieters >> > >> > Marriage records: >> > 1696 14 Oct; Jan Jansz Van Aarnem, ym liv Albany; Hester Fonda, yd liv >> > Albany [Albany records] >> > 1695 08 Jan; Abraham Janszen Van Aernem, jm, van Mitspatskill; Sara >> > Eckeson, jd, aen de Bouwerye, beyde woonende alheir. A >> > 1696 03 Jun; Jan Ekkinszen, jm van Stuyvesants bouwerje; Maryken Jans, >> > jd van N. Yorck, beyde woonende alhier >> > >> > >> > On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Stephen Wood <stephe.w300@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Hi! >> >> >> >> I just noticed that the Netherlands Vital Statistics website >> >> www.genlias.nl has transcriptions of the early records of the >> "Collegiate >> >> Church of New York" as they call it and many of our early Van Arnhem >> etc. >> >> records are listed there under various spellings. (with and without > the >> Van >> >> Arn(h)*m) >> >> >> >> It would be interesting to determine if they were taken from > copies >> of >> >> records sent "home" near the time of their creation (i.e. - yearly?) or >> from >> >> copies of records sent over in the 1900's or later...... >> >> >> >> I note a couple of baptisms for children that I didn't have listed >> - >> >> sons of Abraham Van Arn(h)em and Maria Hijningen (etc.) >> >> >> >> Isaac bpt. 8 Oct. 1729 >> >> Jan bpt. 19 May 1736 >> >> as well as Abraham 31 October 1739 (who I did have.....) >> >> >> >> Are these new entries, or was I just missing them...... [The first two >> are >> >> not on any of the VN websites that I can see] >> >> >> >> Also, the 1671 baptism for Jan lists his parents as Jan Dircxzen van >> Aernhem >> >> and Sara Theunis - so it does appear that Jan Dircxzen (sic) did refer >> to >> >> himself at least once as "van Arnhem"...... although perhaps he was >> still >> >> using it as a place name and not a surname as later children didn't > have >> >> it..... >> >> >> >> Food for thought, >> >> >> >> Stephen >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have someone who was from Op de Deutelbay. Does that phrase mean anything to anyone? Is there a modern place-name equivalent to Deutlebay? Ray -----Original Message----- From: vannorman-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:vannorman-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of jroguetech@gmail.com Sent: October 23, 2010 10:00 PM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] another source of New Amsterdam records "aen de" is "of the" or "unto the". "Bouwer" is builder. According to Google translate "bouwerij" is brewery. Looking for other uses of "aen de", and they apparently refer to places, at least generally. "aen de Manhatans" "aen de Deutelbay" "aen de groote Kill" (groote = great; Kill is a place) "aen de Zuyt rivier" "aen de Oesterbay" And finally, "aen de armen Bouwerye. N. Haerlem". On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Ed Leifer <edleifer@rcn.com> wrote: > As someone who grew up across the Hudson from Manhattan (in Jersey City) and > is somewhat familiar with the Manhattan, the first thing that came to mind > for me was the street, The Bowery. The Bowery is supposed to be the oldest > street in the city. A little checking showed that Bowery was itself a > bastardization of the Dutch "Bouwerij" or farm. Bowery Lane apparently > originally led to Peter Stuyvesant's farm hence Bowery (Farm) Lane. I wonder > if Bouwerye is just another bastardization of Bouwerij. > > Ed Leifer > > He has showed you, O man, what is good. > And what does the Lord require of you? > To act Justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God. > Micah 6:8 (NIV) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: vannorman-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:vannorman-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Linda Schwenn > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 6:50 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] another source of New Amsterdam records > > It was not in this online translator > http://www.freedict.com/onldict/dut.html > <http://www.freedict.com/onldict/dut.html>which I've found useful before. > > On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 3:49 PM, <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Abaham and Sara Eckerson's marriage: >> 1695 08 Jan; Abraham Janszen Van Aernem, jm, van Mitspatskill; Sara >> Eckeson, jd, aen de Bouwerye, beyde woonende alheir. A >> >> What does "aen de Bouwerye" translate to? >> >> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:46 PM,  <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: >> > I believe these are the same records as found elsewhere (BHIC, >> > Olivetree, etc.). I alsi believe all of these are from the same >> > transcription of the same book, Records of the Reformed Dutch Church >> > in New Amsterdam and New York (aka Collections of the New York >> > Genealogical and Biographical Society Vol II). I switched to using >> > "Ancestral Things" site (used to use BHIC), because the editer claims >> > to actually have corrected some original transcription errors. Perhaps >> > some day Google will scan the original book. Also, since Ancestral >> > Things includes Albany, Schenectady, and elsewhere, makes it a bit >> > easier to source stuff. >> > > http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rbillard/vital_statistics.htm<http:/ > /homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Erbillard/vital_statistics.htm> >> > >> > Jan Dirckszen had eight children, all of whose Baptisms are found in >> > the N.A. records: >> > 1664 Dec 31; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt >> > 1669 Aug 18; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Magdalena; Jilles Joosten, >> > Maria Wouters >> > 1671 Jun 04; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara Theunis; Jan; Jan >> > Laurenszen Duyts, Mayken Laurens >> > 1673 Apr 09; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Abraham; Jean le Maistre, >> > Susanna Le Maistre >> > 1675 Jul 14; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Thomas; Marie; Willem Van Leyden >> > 1677 Sep 26; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Catharina; David >> > Hendrickszen, Tryntie Hercks >> > 1680 Apr 03; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Isaac (twin); Daniel >> > Terneur, Hester de La Maistre, Marritie Pieters >> > 1680 Apr 03; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Jacob (twin); Daniel >> > Terneur, Hester de La Maistre, Marritie Pieters >> > >> > Marriage records: >> > 1696 14 Oct; Jan Jansz Van Aarnem, ym liv Albany; Hester Fonda, yd liv >> > Albany [Albany records] >> > 1695 08 Jan; Abraham Janszen Van Aernem, jm, van Mitspatskill; Sara >> > Eckeson, jd, aen de Bouwerye, beyde woonende alheir. A >> > 1696 03 Jun; Jan Ekkinszen, jm van Stuyvesants bouwerje; Maryken Jans, >> > jd van N. Yorck, beyde woonende alhier >> > >> > >> > On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Stephen Wood <stephe.w300@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Hi! >> >> >> >>      I just noticed that the Netherlands Vital Statistics website >> >> www.genlias.nl has transcriptions of the early records of the >> "Collegiate >> >> Church of New York" as they call it and many of our early Van Arnhem >> etc. >> >> records are listed there under various spellings.  (with and without > the >> Van >> >> Arn(h)*m) >> >> >> >>      It would be interesting to determine if they were taken from > copies >> of >> >> records sent "home" near the time of their creation (i.e. - yearly?) or >> from >> >> copies of records sent over in the 1900's or later...... >> >> >> >>      I note a couple of baptisms for children that I didn't have listed >> - >> >> sons of Abraham Van Arn(h)em and Maria Hijningen (etc.) >> >> >> >> Isaac bpt. 8 Oct. 1729 >> >> Jan bpt. 19 May 1736 >> >> as well as Abraham 31 October 1739 (who I did have.....) >> >> >> >> Are these new entries, or was I just missing them......  [The first two >> are >> >> not on any of the VN websites that I can see] >> >> >> >> Also, the 1671 baptism for Jan lists his parents as Jan Dircxzen van >> Aernhem >> >> and Sara Theunis - so it does appear that Jan Dircxzen (sic) did refer >> to >> >> himself at least once as "van Arnhem"...... although perhaps he was >> still >> >> using it as a place name and not a surname as later children didn't > have >> >> it..... >> >> >> >>       Food for thought, >> >> >> >> Stephen >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

"aen de" is "of the" or "unto the". "Bouwer" is builder. According to Google translate "bouwerij" is brewery. Looking for other uses of "aen de", and they apparently refer to places, at least generally. "aen de Manhatans" "aen de Deutelbay" "aen de groote Kill" (groote = great; Kill is a place) "aen de Zuyt rivier" "aen de Oesterbay" And finally, "aen de armen Bouwerye. N. Haerlem". On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Ed Leifer <edleifer@rcn.com> wrote: > As someone who grew up across the Hudson from Manhattan (in Jersey City) and > is somewhat familiar with the Manhattan, the first thing that came to mind > for me was the street, The Bowery. The Bowery is supposed to be the oldest > street in the city. A little checking showed that Bowery was itself a > bastardization of the Dutch "Bouwerij" or farm. Bowery Lane apparently > originally led to Peter Stuyvesant's farm hence Bowery (Farm) Lane. I wonder > if Bouwerye is just another bastardization of Bouwerij. > > Ed Leifer > > He has showed you, O man, what is good. > And what does the Lord require of you? > To act Justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God. > Micah 6:8 (NIV) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: vannorman-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:vannorman-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Linda Schwenn > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 6:50 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] another source of New Amsterdam records > > It was not in this online translator > http://www.freedict.com/onldict/dut.html > <http://www.freedict.com/onldict/dut.html>which I've found useful before. > > On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 3:49 PM, <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Abaham and Sara Eckerson's marriage: >> 1695 08 Jan; Abraham Janszen Van Aernem, jm, van Mitspatskill; Sara >> Eckeson, jd, aen de Bouwerye, beyde woonende alheir. A >> >> What does "aen de Bouwerye" translate to? >> >> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:46 PM,  <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: >> > I believe these are the same records as found elsewhere (BHIC, >> > Olivetree, etc.). I alsi believe all of these are from the same >> > transcription of the same book, Records of the Reformed Dutch Church >> > in New Amsterdam and New York (aka Collections of the New York >> > Genealogical and Biographical Society Vol II). I switched to using >> > "Ancestral Things" site (used to use BHIC), because the editer claims >> > to actually have corrected some original transcription errors. Perhaps >> > some day Google will scan the original book. Also, since Ancestral >> > Things includes Albany, Schenectady, and elsewhere, makes it a bit >> > easier to source stuff. >> > > http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rbillard/vital_statistics.htm<http:/ > /homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Erbillard/vital_statistics.htm> >> > >> > Jan Dirckszen had eight children, all of whose Baptisms are found in >> > the N.A. records: >> > 1664 Dec 31; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt >> > 1669 Aug 18; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Magdalena; Jilles Joosten, >> > Maria Wouters >> > 1671 Jun 04; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara Theunis; Jan; Jan >> > Laurenszen Duyts, Mayken Laurens >> > 1673 Apr 09; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Abraham; Jean le Maistre, >> > Susanna Le Maistre >> > 1675 Jul 14; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Thomas; Marie; Willem Van Leyden >> > 1677 Sep 26; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Catharina; David >> > Hendrickszen, Tryntie Hercks >> > 1680 Apr 03; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Isaac (twin); Daniel >> > Terneur, Hester de La Maistre, Marritie Pieters >> > 1680 Apr 03; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Jacob (twin); Daniel >> > Terneur, Hester de La Maistre, Marritie Pieters >> > >> > Marriage records: >> > 1696 14 Oct; Jan Jansz Van Aarnem, ym liv Albany; Hester Fonda, yd liv >> > Albany [Albany records] >> > 1695 08 Jan; Abraham Janszen Van Aernem, jm, van Mitspatskill; Sara >> > Eckeson, jd, aen de Bouwerye, beyde woonende alheir. A >> > 1696 03 Jun; Jan Ekkinszen, jm van Stuyvesants bouwerje; Maryken Jans, >> > jd van N. Yorck, beyde woonende alhier >> > >> > >> > On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Stephen Wood <stephe.w300@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Hi! >> >> >> >>      I just noticed that the Netherlands Vital Statistics website >> >> www.genlias.nl has transcriptions of the early records of the >> "Collegiate >> >> Church of New York" as they call it and many of our early Van Arnhem >> etc. >> >> records are listed there under various spellings.  (with and without > the >> Van >> >> Arn(h)*m) >> >> >> >>      It would be interesting to determine if they were taken from > copies >> of >> >> records sent "home" near the time of their creation (i.e. - yearly?) or >> from >> >> copies of records sent over in the 1900's or later...... >> >> >> >>      I note a couple of baptisms for children that I didn't have listed >> - >> >> sons of Abraham Van Arn(h)em and Maria Hijningen (etc.) >> >> >> >> Isaac bpt. 8 Oct. 1729 >> >> Jan bpt. 19 May 1736 >> >> as well as Abraham 31 October 1739 (who I did have.....) >> >> >> >> Are these new entries, or was I just missing them......  [The first two >> are >> >> not on any of the VN websites that I can see] >> >> >> >> Also, the 1671 baptism for Jan lists his parents as Jan Dircxzen van >> Aernhem >> >> and Sara Theunis - so it does appear that Jan Dircxzen (sic) did refer >> to >> >> himself at least once as "van Arnhem"...... although perhaps he was >> still >> >> using it as a place name and not a surname as later children didn't > have >> >> it..... >> >> >> >>       Food for thought, >> >> >> >> Stephen >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you Linda and the others that have been emailing me privately. I took a few days break but am back at it. I thought I might have been bombarding the list so I have not been sending my new discoveries. If you would like I will continue to do so since we just don't know which piece of info will put it all together. You guys are wonderful collaborators and I have learned so much from you all. Susan Ps I don't know why but my messages keep coming back with a failure notice more than half the time. So if I send duplicates I apologize in advance. -----Original Message----- From: Linda Schwenn [mailto:schwel@comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 11:14 AM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] another source of New Amsterdam records There are some additional Netherlands records on the FamilySearch beta site https://beta.familysearch.org/ <https://beta.familysearch.org/> Special thanks to Susan Claggett for posting so much helpful information on this mailing list. And also to those who responded with additional information and thoughtful questions. Linda Schwenn ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

As someone who grew up across the Hudson from Manhattan (in Jersey City) and is somewhat familiar with the Manhattan, the first thing that came to mind for me was the street, The Bowery. The Bowery is supposed to be the oldest street in the city. A little checking showed that Bowery was itself a bastardization of the Dutch "Bouwerij" or farm. Bowery Lane apparently originally led to Peter Stuyvesant's farm hence Bowery (Farm) Lane. I wonder if Bouwerye is just another bastardization of Bouwerij. Ed Leifer He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act Justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8 (NIV) -----Original Message----- From: vannorman-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:vannorman-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Linda Schwenn Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 6:50 PM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] another source of New Amsterdam records It was not in this online translator http://www.freedict.com/onldict/dut.html <http://www.freedict.com/onldict/dut.html>which I've found useful before. On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 3:49 PM, <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: > Abaham and Sara Eckerson's marriage: > 1695 08 Jan; Abraham Janszen Van Aernem, jm, van Mitspatskill; Sara > Eckeson, jd, aen de Bouwerye, beyde woonende alheir. A > > What does "aen de Bouwerye" translate to? > > On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:46 PM, <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: > > I believe these are the same records as found elsewhere (BHIC, > > Olivetree, etc.). I alsi believe all of these are from the same > > transcription of the same book, Records of the Reformed Dutch Church > > in New Amsterdam and New York (aka Collections of the New York > > Genealogical and Biographical Society Vol II). I switched to using > > "Ancestral Things" site (used to use BHIC), because the editer claims > > to actually have corrected some original transcription errors. Perhaps > > some day Google will scan the original book. Also, since Ancestral > > Things includes Albany, Schenectady, and elsewhere, makes it a bit > > easier to source stuff. > > http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rbillard/vital_statistics.htm<http:/ /homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Erbillard/vital_statistics.htm> > > > > Jan Dirckszen had eight children, all of whose Baptisms are found in > > the N.A. records: > > 1664 Dec 31; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Dirckje; Tryntie Grevenraedt > > 1669 Aug 18; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Magdalena; Jilles Joosten, > > Maria Wouters > > 1671 Jun 04; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara Theunis; Jan; Jan > > Laurenszen Duyts, Mayken Laurens > > 1673 Apr 09; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Abraham; Jean le Maistre, > > Susanna Le Maistre > > 1675 Jul 14; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Thomas; Marie; Willem Van Leyden > > 1677 Sep 26; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Catharina; David > > Hendrickszen, Tryntie Hercks > > 1680 Apr 03; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Isaac (twin); Daniel > > Terneur, Hester de La Maistre, Marritie Pieters > > 1680 Apr 03; Jan Dirckszen, Sara Theunis; Jacob (twin); Daniel > > Terneur, Hester de La Maistre, Marritie Pieters > > > > Marriage records: > > 1696 14 Oct; Jan Jansz Van Aarnem, ym liv Albany; Hester Fonda, yd liv > > Albany [Albany records] > > 1695 08 Jan; Abraham Janszen Van Aernem, jm, van Mitspatskill; Sara > > Eckeson, jd, aen de Bouwerye, beyde woonende alheir. A > > 1696 03 Jun; Jan Ekkinszen, jm van Stuyvesants bouwerje; Maryken Jans, > > jd van N. Yorck, beyde woonende alhier > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Stephen Wood <stephe.w300@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi! > >> > >> I just noticed that the Netherlands Vital Statistics website > >> www.genlias.nl has transcriptions of the early records of the > "Collegiate > >> Church of New York" as they call it and many of our early Van Arnhem > etc. > >> records are listed there under various spellings. (with and without the > Van > >> Arn(h)*m) > >> > >> It would be interesting to determine if they were taken from copies > of > >> records sent "home" near the time of their creation (i.e. - yearly?) or > from > >> copies of records sent over in the 1900's or later...... > >> > >> I note a couple of baptisms for children that I didn't have listed > - > >> sons of Abraham Van Arn(h)em and Maria Hijningen (etc.) > >> > >> Isaac bpt. 8 Oct. 1729 > >> Jan bpt. 19 May 1736 > >> as well as Abraham 31 October 1739 (who I did have.....) > >> > >> Are these new entries, or was I just missing them...... [The first two > are > >> not on any of the VN websites that I can see] > >> > >> Also, the 1671 baptism for Jan lists his parents as Jan Dircxzen van > Aernhem > >> and Sara Theunis - so it does appear that Jan Dircxzen (sic) did refer > to > >> himself at least once as "van Arnhem"...... although perhaps he was > still > >> using it as a place name and not a surname as later children didn't have > >> it..... > >> > >> Food for thought, > >> > >> Stephen > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message