The name "Orange" is something of a family indicator. I recall it in the Reynolds family and I think one or two others. --pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Schwenn" <schwel@comcast.net> To: <vannorman@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] Civil War pensions > I've been looking also. Here's the closest I've come for an early > candidate. > This one is living with Orange O Smith and his wife Catherine Page. > Name: Jacob Vnaurnun Age in 1860: 20 Birth Year: abt 1840 Birthplace: > New > York Home in 1860: Barre, Orleans, New York Gender: Male Post Office: > Albion > > A possible brother is living with the family next door. > > * Find A Grave:* > Charles Harrison Van Norman > Birth: Nov. 17, 1871 > Toledo, Lucas County, Ohio, USA > Death: Oct. 3, 1944 > Perrysburg, Wood County, Ohio, USA > "Charles was the son of Harry and Martha Collins/Hills Van Norman. His > father was from Holland and his mother was from England. Charles's > occupation was traveling freight agent. He married Clara Hufford on > NOvember > 18, 1890 in Lucas County and after her death in 1925, married Esther > Elting > on January 12, 1929 in Wood County, Ohio." > > Linda Schwenn > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 2:35 AM, Stephen Wood <stephe.w300@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi again! >> >> I spent a quite a while last night trying to sort out (Jacob) >> Harry Van Norman's family, but still had no luck with either the 1880 >> or 1870 census returns. Fred and his mother Martha are also together >> in the 1910 census returns of Ward 3 in Lima, Allen County, Ohio, and >> Harry was living there for the 1890 census because he was listed in >> the 1890 Veteran's Schedule of that census. >> >> Son William E. Van Norman's marriage record to Catharine (nee Ott) >> in 1911 indicates that he was born in Lima, Ohio, so they may have >> moved from Toledo to Lima sometime between Albert H.'s birth in 1875 >> and William's birth in 1878/9 - but that's all I came up with. [So >> Harry and his family should be in Lima, Allen Co., Ohio in 1880 by the >> looks of it.....hiding very well though!] >> >> Martha Collins was likely residing in Ward 5 of Toledo with her >> parents in 1870, age 19 [but indexed as age 13 by Ancestry - image >> 55], so "in theory" Jacob Harrison "Harry" Van Norman isn't far away. >> [balance of Collins family two pages over on image 57, so pages don't >> appear to be in exact order - I checked 3 pages either way from 55, >> but dialup is too slow for an in-depth search] >> >> The first son of Jacob / Harry and Martha is Charles Harrison, so >> likely the Harry is a short form of Harrison..... >> >> The search goes on! >> >> Stephen >> >> >> >> On 10/29/10, Linda Noggle <lindanoggle@verizon.net> wrote: >> > Hi Stephen, >> > >> > I could not find them in the 1880 census either, but I looked on the >> Mormom >> > site - Pilot search program >> > and found some of the children's marriage records and they indicated >> > they >> > were born in Toledo, Ohio >> > Listed parents as Harry and Martha Collins Van Norman >> > I did find Martha with son Fred in the 1920 census in Toledo, Ohio >> > under the name Van Naman >> > >> > I have no idea about the parents. >> > >> > Linda >> > >> > >> > On Oct 29, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Stephen Wood wrote: >> > >> >> I second the vote of thanks Linda! - these have helped me sort out a >> >> couple of my family entries. >> >> >> >> With regards to Jacob Harry [Harrison??] Van Norman >> >> >> >> I have him from the 1900 census [Lima Ward 3, Allen Co., Ohio], but >> >> can't locate him in any earlier ones..... Have you had any better >> >> luck? >> >> >> >> I'm also not sure who his parents are, as all my best choices are >> >> accounted for - any suggestions? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Stephen >> >> >> >> On 10/29/10, Linda Noggle <lindanoggle@verizon.net> wrote: >> >>> Hi All, >> >>> >> >>> I went to the National Archives and looked at a few of the Van Norman >> >>> pensions for the civil war. Thought these might be of interest to >> those >> >>> that are related >> >>> >> >>> Jacob Harry Van Norman - Co H 111st Regiment, Ohio Infantry >> >>> >> >>> Jacob married Martha Collins on 11/24/1870 . They met at the >> >>> boarding >> >>> house >> >>> Martha worked at and John lived at in Toledo, Ohio. >> >>> Jacob went by the name of Harry. >> >>> >> >>> Living children as of 1897 >> >>> >> >>> Charles born 12/17/1871 >> >>> Fred - 12/22/1872 >> >>> Albert - 8/7/1875 >> >>> Sophia - 2/28/1877 >> >>> William - 5/19/1879 >> >>> Hattie - 7/7/1887 >> >>> >> >>> Jacob died 6/5/1902 in Ohio >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Found this obit on http://www.joycetice.com/clippings/tcobt190.htm "These Obituaries came from a scrapbook located at the Steele Memorial Library in Elmira, New York the newspapers from which they came were not named. Sharon Newman" John T. *VANORMAN*, 70, of 109 Bradford St., Sayre, a retired general car foreman for the Lehigh Valley Railroad, died early this morning at the Robert Packer Hospital following and extended illness. (?? 1971 handwritten) Born in Waverly, May 3, 1900, he had spent his early life in Niagara Falls. He had been employed by the Lehigh Railroad for 47 years retiring three years ago. Mr. VanOrman traveled extensively for the railroad as a general car foreman. He was a member of the Church of the Redeemer in Sayre, a member of the B.A.R.E, of Niagara River Lodge No. 785, F. and A.M. and of Waverly Moose Lodge No. 1490. Surviving are his wife, Margaret; two daughters, Mrs. David (JoAnne) Price of Sayre and Mrs. Philip (Margaret) Blend of Westfield, Mass.; five grandchildren ; a sister, Miss Dorothea VanOrman of Niagara Falls; three brothers, Howard and James, both of Niagara Falls and Harold of Duluth, Minn.; several nieces, nephews and cousins. Friends may call at the Kolb-Allgeier Funeral Home, 126 N. Elmer Ave., Sayre, Sunday from 2 to 4 and 7 to 9 p.m. Funeral and committal services will be held Monday morning at 11 o’clock at the Church of the Redeemer in Sayre. Rev. Albert Greene, rector, will officiate. Burial will be in Glenwood Cemetery, Waverly. In lieu of flowers it has been requested that contributions be made to the Memorial Fund of the Church of the Redeemer. Waverly Moose Lodge will conduct memorial services at the funeral home Sunday at 8 p.m. I found John in the: 1900 census Waverly, Tioga, New York *Van Orman* James –1873, Carrie- 1878, Richard 1895, Howard 1897, John 1900 1910 census Elmira Ward 12, Chemung, New York *Van Arman*: James-1874 (not indexed), Pearl 1879, Richard 1896, Howard 1898, John 1901, Dorothy 1902, James 1905, Archie, 1906 1920 census Manchester, Ontario, New York *Van Aunan: *John 1875, Pearl 1880, Howard 1898, John 1900, James 1902, Dorothy 1903, Archie 1908, Harold 1915 1930 census Niagara Falls, Niagara, New York *Van Orman * John T. 1902 (head), Pearl Cirl 1880, Doratha M. 1903, James L. 1905, Howard R 1914 1880 census Ithaca, Tompkins, New York *Van Orman* Jerry 1850, Elizabeth 1855, James 1873 (found a Gerrid on a family tree with a father of James Henry Van Orman, mother Miria Lebar) I don't know this family but hope it's some help to others. Arlene

I've been looking also. Here's the closest I've come for an early candidate. This one is living with Orange O Smith and his wife Catherine Page. Name: Jacob Vnaurnun Age in 1860: 20 Birth Year: abt 1840 Birthplace: New York Home in 1860: Barre, Orleans, New York Gender: Male Post Office: Albion A possible brother is living with the family next door. * Find A Grave:* Charles Harrison Van Norman Birth: Nov. 17, 1871 Toledo, Lucas County, Ohio, USA Death: Oct. 3, 1944 Perrysburg, Wood County, Ohio, USA "Charles was the son of Harry and Martha Collins/Hills Van Norman. His father was from Holland and his mother was from England. Charles's occupation was traveling freight agent. He married Clara Hufford on NOvember 18, 1890 in Lucas County and after her death in 1925, married Esther Elting on January 12, 1929 in Wood County, Ohio." Linda Schwenn On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 2:35 AM, Stephen Wood <stephe.w300@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi again! > > I spent a quite a while last night trying to sort out (Jacob) > Harry Van Norman's family, but still had no luck with either the 1880 > or 1870 census returns. Fred and his mother Martha are also together > in the 1910 census returns of Ward 3 in Lima, Allen County, Ohio, and > Harry was living there for the 1890 census because he was listed in > the 1890 Veteran's Schedule of that census. > > Son William E. Van Norman's marriage record to Catharine (nee Ott) > in 1911 indicates that he was born in Lima, Ohio, so they may have > moved from Toledo to Lima sometime between Albert H.'s birth in 1875 > and William's birth in 1878/9 - but that's all I came up with. [So > Harry and his family should be in Lima, Allen Co., Ohio in 1880 by the > looks of it.....hiding very well though!] > > Martha Collins was likely residing in Ward 5 of Toledo with her > parents in 1870, age 19 [but indexed as age 13 by Ancestry - image > 55], so "in theory" Jacob Harrison "Harry" Van Norman isn't far away. > [balance of Collins family two pages over on image 57, so pages don't > appear to be in exact order - I checked 3 pages either way from 55, > but dialup is too slow for an in-depth search] > > The first son of Jacob / Harry and Martha is Charles Harrison, so > likely the Harry is a short form of Harrison..... > > The search goes on! > > Stephen > > > > On 10/29/10, Linda Noggle <lindanoggle@verizon.net> wrote: > > Hi Stephen, > > > > I could not find them in the 1880 census either, but I looked on the > Mormom > > site - Pilot search program > > and found some of the children's marriage records and they indicated they > > were born in Toledo, Ohio > > Listed parents as Harry and Martha Collins Van Norman > > I did find Martha with son Fred in the 1920 census in Toledo, Ohio > > under the name Van Naman > > > > I have no idea about the parents. > > > > Linda > > > > > > On Oct 29, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Stephen Wood wrote: > > > >> I second the vote of thanks Linda! - these have helped me sort out a > >> couple of my family entries. > >> > >> With regards to Jacob Harry [Harrison??] Van Norman > >> > >> I have him from the 1900 census [Lima Ward 3, Allen Co., Ohio], but > >> can't locate him in any earlier ones..... Have you had any better > >> luck? > >> > >> I'm also not sure who his parents are, as all my best choices are > >> accounted for - any suggestions? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Stephen > >> > >> On 10/29/10, Linda Noggle <lindanoggle@verizon.net> wrote: > >>> Hi All, > >>> > >>> I went to the National Archives and looked at a few of the Van Norman > >>> pensions for the civil war. Thought these might be of interest to > those > >>> that are related > >>> > >>> Jacob Harry Van Norman - Co H 111st Regiment, Ohio Infantry > >>> > >>> Jacob married Martha Collins on 11/24/1870 . They met at the boarding > >>> house > >>> Martha worked at and John lived at in Toledo, Ohio. > >>> Jacob went by the name of Harry. > >>> > >>> Living children as of 1897 > >>> > >>> Charles born 12/17/1871 > >>> Fred - 12/22/1872 > >>> Albert - 8/7/1875 > >>> Sophia - 2/28/1877 > >>> William - 5/19/1879 > >>> Hattie - 7/7/1887 > >>> > >>> Jacob died 6/5/1902 in Ohio > >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi again! I spent a quite a while last night trying to sort out (Jacob) Harry Van Norman's family, but still had no luck with either the 1880 or 1870 census returns. Fred and his mother Martha are also together in the 1910 census returns of Ward 3 in Lima, Allen County, Ohio, and Harry was living there for the 1890 census because he was listed in the 1890 Veteran's Schedule of that census. Son William E. Van Norman's marriage record to Catharine (nee Ott) in 1911 indicates that he was born in Lima, Ohio, so they may have moved from Toledo to Lima sometime between Albert H.'s birth in 1875 and William's birth in 1878/9 - but that's all I came up with. [So Harry and his family should be in Lima, Allen Co., Ohio in 1880 by the looks of it.....hiding very well though!] Martha Collins was likely residing in Ward 5 of Toledo with her parents in 1870, age 19 [but indexed as age 13 by Ancestry - image 55], so "in theory" Jacob Harrison "Harry" Van Norman isn't far away. [balance of Collins family two pages over on image 57, so pages don't appear to be in exact order - I checked 3 pages either way from 55, but dialup is too slow for an in-depth search] The first son of Jacob / Harry and Martha is Charles Harrison, so likely the Harry is a short form of Harrison..... The search goes on! Stephen On 10/29/10, Linda Noggle <lindanoggle@verizon.net> wrote: > Hi Stephen, > > I could not find them in the 1880 census either, but I looked on the Mormom > site - Pilot search program > and found some of the children's marriage records and they indicated they > were born in Toledo, Ohio > Listed parents as Harry and Martha Collins Van Norman > I did find Martha with son Fred in the 1920 census in Toledo, Ohio > under the name Van Naman > > I have no idea about the parents. > > Linda > > > On Oct 29, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Stephen Wood wrote: > >> I second the vote of thanks Linda! - these have helped me sort out a >> couple of my family entries. >> >> With regards to Jacob Harry [Harrison??] Van Norman >> >> I have him from the 1900 census [Lima Ward 3, Allen Co., Ohio], but >> can't locate him in any earlier ones..... Have you had any better >> luck? >> >> I'm also not sure who his parents are, as all my best choices are >> accounted for - any suggestions? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Stephen >> >> On 10/29/10, Linda Noggle <lindanoggle@verizon.net> wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I went to the National Archives and looked at a few of the Van Norman >>> pensions for the civil war. Thought these might be of interest to those >>> that are related >>> >>> Jacob Harry Van Norman - Co H 111st Regiment, Ohio Infantry >>> >>> Jacob married Martha Collins on 11/24/1870 . They met at the boarding >>> house >>> Martha worked at and John lived at in Toledo, Ohio. >>> Jacob went by the name of Harry. >>> >>> Living children as of 1897 >>> >>> Charles born 12/17/1871 >>> Fred - 12/22/1872 >>> Albert - 8/7/1875 >>> Sophia - 2/28/1877 >>> William - 5/19/1879 >>> Hattie - 7/7/1887 >>> >>> Jacob died 6/5/1902 in Ohio >>

Hi all, Just found an interesting website: Library of Congress digital library. They have a number of newspapers in the collection. http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/ The Salt Lake herald. (Salt Lake City [Utah) 1870-1909, June 09, 1909, Image 6 Marriage Licenses John Van Orman Monteller Ida Dorothy Welker Bennlngton Ida from the VNFA old site spouses: VN, John Van Orman Nov 4, 1886 - Mar 18, 1952 Welker, Dorthea Arlene

Leslie, Thank you for all this info. It filled in some nooks and crannies. FYI: I have Elmer's death at Aug 1869. He's on the 1870 mortality schedule. Linda Schwenn On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Leslie Thomas <aeriehollow@ellijay.com>wrote: > Thanks Linda N...for this research, here's some additional > information on Isaac VanNorman's family during the CW: > > Charles R. VanNorman enlisted in the Wisconsin Volunteers Co. F, 4th > Calvary was wounded 7-15-1862 at Yaazoo River mustered out 7-8-1865 > CW application #1120408 - Charles married a woman named Nancy Janet > LNU and although they had a daughter named Harriet b. Jan 18, 1871 in > Pilot Mound, Minnesota she apparently died young. The migrated to > North Dakota where he was listed on the 1890 Veteran's Schedule and > in 1900 they had adopted a daughter named Virginia. Virginia is 12 > on the 1900 census. In 1918 widow applied for Charles pension - she > had to file in Washington State at the time. Charles died 16 April > 1918 in Portland, Oregon. > > George W. VanNorman's pension application number was #222778 and was > filed in Minnesota by his mother Harriett VanNorman Feb 16, 1885. He > enlisted in in Fond du Lac as living in Lomira Wisconsin into the > Wisconsin Volunteers, Co. E, 3rd Infantry. He was killed in action > at Antietam, MD 9-17-1862. > > Also son Theodore S. Van Orman b. about 1843 - enlisted in the > Wisconsin Volunteers, Co. K, 7th Infantry shortly after 1860 and was > captured at Gettysburg and listed as died 8-19-1863 at the hospital > in Richmond VA. of disease per the records - however he's on the 1865 > Minnesota Territorial Census in Winona Co., Saratoga, MN living at > home - we think he died there shortly afterwards of disease. Seems > the records weren't always very accurate. > > James Melville was too young to serve as was brother Daniel. James > M. married Susannah Rice daughter of Harrison and Sarah Cochraine > Rice in 1870. Daniel married Elmira Ferris and mother Harriet is > listed in their home in 1885 Territorial Minnesota State in the city > of Raymond. > > Elmer was a child at the time of the CW. He was born in 1858 and > died of typhoid fever in August of 1870. > > Daughters: > Mary Harriett was married to Thomas J. Torrey and we believe he died > in the CW. Her second husband was Duane Manilus Philes. Mary also > went by the name of Hannah (which is another name for Mary). She > filed in 1900 for Duane's CW pension records claiming she was an > abandoned wife. He deserted his family in 1899 and hadn't been seen > since. Duane served in Co. C, 9th Reg't of the Minnesota Volunteer > Infantry. She claimed that first husband Torrey had disappeared > during the CW and that she had had him declared as dead. They > wouldn't let her claim pension money on Torrey since his body was > never found... she filed for half of Duane's pension. > > Adelia Sylvia married Charles L. Orcutt - she apparently died prior > to her father Isaac dying as she isn't listed in the will. Some > researchers have Charles as being in Co. F, 9th Reg't of the > Minnesota Volunteer Infantry. He wa discharged July 26, 1865 and > filed for his pension in 1893. Their two boys were reared by > Harriett and are found on the 1880 census living with their > grandmother then. > > Ella Elizabeth married my great grandfather Morris Lusk Barker in > 1888. He served in the 103rd Ohio - his pension file was almost 2 > inches thick as he had to substantiate he was an American - since he > had lied about everything from where he was born to who his parents > were. He was only 14 when he enlisted. He was fighting in Georgia > (where I live now) at Resaca while my husband's great grandfather was > fighting in the Wheat Fields of Gettysburg. Nope we seldom fight > over the CW - we have learned that it was a horrific time and we > accept that it was horrible for both sides. > > > Leslie Barker Thomas > Fear less; hope more. Eat less; chew more. Talk less; say more. Hate > less; love more, and all good thing will be yours. > - Swedish Proverb - > > > On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Linda Noggle > <lindanoggle@verizon.net>wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > I went to the National Archives and looked at a few of the Van Norman > > pensions for the civil war. Thought these might be of interest to > > those > > that are related > > > > > > > > > > George W. Van Norman - Co E. 3rd Reg. - WIsconsin Infantry - > > enlisted from > > Fond du Lac, Wisconsin > > > > Born 1840 - New York - died 9/17/1862 at Antietam > > his mother Harriet Van Norman filed for pension in 1885 > > It looks like she did not furnish all the information they needed, > > > > It did say she was the wife of Isaac Van Norman who had died > > 12/22/1879, > > aged 84 years > > It did not give her maiden name > > It listed the surving brothers and sisters of George > > > > Charles R. born 1837 > > Mary H. born 1838 > > Theo S. born 1843 > > James M. born 1845 > > Daniel E. born 1847 > > Adelia S. born 1849 > > Ella E. born 1853 > > Elmer J. born 1856 > > > > > > > > A E. Koefod and Olle Gilbertson signed as witnesses to her > > declaration for > > pension. > > > > > > > > Linda Noggle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Linda, Glad you asked! It made me go back and look again at my records/database. Yes, I do have Abraham and Sally Pratt as parents. My database showed William died in 1861, but when I reread my notes, I saw that that was his muster date. Today I think I found him in the 1880 census in Lake View, Cook, Illinois, so 3 sons went to war and 2 survived. Here's a strange note: The Malone Civil War Service record online for William H. has this entry: Van Ornum, William H. 14th US Inf., enlisted 4/1861, Farmer, mustered in April 1861, commissioned as a 2nd Lt. 20th US Colored Infantry. Promoted to 1st Lt. http://www.usgennet.org/usa/ny/county/franklin/malone/townrecords/st-we.htm Regarding Robert's son, you wrote "It was George F. Vanorman (born 11/4/1850) that applied for pension indicating he was blind and had always depended on his father." I find this very curious since in all the censuses I have for him his occupation was photographer. I wonder if blindness was an occupational hazard. Linda Schwenn

Thanks. Related to George O. too. Looking forward to the scans of the letters. On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Linda Schwenn <schwel@comcast.net> wrote: > Leslie, Thank you for all this info. It filled in some nooks and crannies. > FYI: I have Elmer's death at Aug 1869. He's on the 1870 mortality schedule. > Linda Schwenn > > On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Leslie Thomas <aeriehollow@ellijay.com>wrote: > >> Thanks Linda N...for this research, here's some additional >> information on Isaac VanNorman's family during the CW: >> >> Charles R. VanNorman enlisted in the Wisconsin Volunteers Co. F, 4th >> Calvary was wounded 7-15-1862 at Yaazoo River mustered out 7-8-1865 >> CW application #1120408 - Charles married a woman named Nancy Janet >> LNU and although they had a daughter named Harriet b. Jan 18, 1871 in >> Pilot Mound, Minnesota she apparently died young.  The migrated to >> North Dakota where he was listed on the 1890 Veteran's Schedule and >> in 1900 they had adopted a daughter named Virginia.  Virginia is 12 >> on the 1900 census.  In 1918 widow applied for Charles pension - she >> had to file in Washington State at the time.  Charles died 16 April >> 1918 in Portland, Oregon. >> >> George W. VanNorman's pension application number was #222778 and was >> filed in Minnesota by his mother Harriett VanNorman Feb 16, 1885.  He >> enlisted in in Fond du Lac as living in Lomira Wisconsin into the >> Wisconsin Volunteers, Co. E, 3rd Infantry.  He was killed in action >> at Antietam, MD 9-17-1862. >> >> Also son Theodore S. Van Orman b. about 1843 - enlisted in the >> Wisconsin Volunteers, Co. K, 7th Infantry shortly after 1860 and was >> captured at Gettysburg and listed as died 8-19-1863 at the hospital >> in Richmond VA. of disease per the records - however he's on the 1865 >> Minnesota Territorial Census in Winona Co., Saratoga, MN living at >> home - we think he died there shortly afterwards of disease.  Seems >> the records weren't always very accurate. >> >> James Melville was too young to serve as was brother Daniel.  James >> M. married Susannah Rice daughter of Harrison and Sarah Cochraine >> Rice in 1870.  Daniel married Elmira Ferris and mother Harriet is >> listed in their home in 1885 Territorial Minnesota State in the city >> of Raymond. >> >> Elmer was a child at the time of the CW.  He was born in 1858 and >> died of typhoid fever in August of 1870. >> >> Daughters: >> Mary Harriett was married to Thomas J. Torrey and we believe he died >> in the CW.  Her second husband was Duane Manilus Philes.  Mary also >> went by the name of Hannah (which is another name for Mary).  She >> filed in 1900 for Duane's CW pension records claiming she was an >> abandoned wife.  He deserted his family in 1899 and hadn't been seen >> since.  Duane served in Co. C, 9th Reg't of the Minnesota Volunteer >> Infantry.  She claimed that first husband Torrey had disappeared >> during the CW and that she had had him declared as dead.  They >> wouldn't let her claim pension money on Torrey since his body was >> never found... she filed for half of Duane's pension. >> >> Adelia Sylvia married Charles L. Orcutt - she apparently died prior >> to her father Isaac dying as she isn't listed in the will.  Some >> researchers have Charles as being in Co. F, 9th Reg't of the >> Minnesota Volunteer Infantry.  He wa discharged July 26, 1865 and >> filed for his pension in 1893.  Their two boys were reared by >> Harriett and are found on the 1880 census living with their >> grandmother then. >> >> Ella Elizabeth married my great grandfather Morris Lusk Barker in >> 1888.  He served in the 103rd Ohio  - his pension file was almost 2 >> inches thick as he had to substantiate he was an American - since he >> had lied about everything from where he was born to who his parents >> were.  He was only 14 when he enlisted.  He was fighting in Georgia >> (where I live now) at Resaca while my husband's great grandfather was >> fighting in the Wheat Fields of Gettysburg.  Nope we seldom fight >> over the CW - we have learned that it was a horrific time and we >> accept that it was horrible for both sides. >> >> >> Leslie Barker Thomas >> Fear less; hope more. Eat less; chew more. Talk less; say more. Hate >> less; love more, and all good thing will be yours. >> - Swedish Proverb - >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Linda Noggle >> <lindanoggle@verizon.net>wrote: >> >> > Hi All, >> > >> > I went to the National Archives and looked at a few of the Van Norman >> > pensions for the civil war.  Thought these might be of interest to >> > those >> > that are related >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > George W. Van Norman - Co E. 3rd Reg. - WIsconsin Infantry  - >> > enlisted from >> > Fond du Lac, Wisconsin >> > >> >  Born 1840 - New York -  died 9/17/1862 at Antietam >> > his mother Harriet Van Norman filed for pension in 1885 >> > It looks like she did not furnish all the information they needed, >> > >> > It did say she was the wife of Isaac Van Norman who had died >> > 12/22/1879, >> > aged 84 years >> > It did not give her maiden name >> > It listed the surving brothers and sisters of George >> > >> > Charles R. born 1837 >> > Mary H. born 1838 >> > Theo S. born 1843 >> > James M. born 1845 >> > Daniel E. born 1847 >> > Adelia S. born 1849 >> > Ella E. born 1853 >> > Elmer J. born 1856 >> > >> > >> > >> > A E. Koefod and Olle Gilbertson signed as witnesses to her >> > declaration for >> > pension. >> > >> > >> > >> > Linda Noggle >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN- >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Arhem is a city. Whether born there or resided for time, no one knows for sure. Also, both spoke Dutch. I'm not clear on my history, and certainly not on immigration patterns, but I suppose it's possible that Jan, or his father, was the equivalant of a mercenary from somewhere else. Being a soldier, his origins are more open to conjecture. I personally don't find it likely that Sara is from anywhere but Rotterdam or it's surrounding area. She being from Rotterdam, etc... It's always possible she too had some past; an orphan or a war refugee, or some such. On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Leslie Thomas <aeriehollow@ellijay.com> wrote: > What are the chances that the VanArnhem/VanNormans came from > Pskovskaya Region of Russia? > Forgive me if I have not clearly comprehended the conversations of > the last few weeks but I think I have understood that VanArnhem is > not a true surname but a region that the Dircks, Theunis, and other > surnames from the area could well have been Lavina, Belarus, or even > Pskovskaya Oblast migrates.  I say this because this is what is now > showing up in my autosomal DNA tests... and I'm being connected to > several Russia "cousins" rather than more Dutch or English ones.  The > interesting facts are that most of these peoples only have first > names like Pelageya of Pskovskaya... which I can see that perhaps the > "of" might have been deleted and the Pskovskaya been picked up as the > surname like VanArnhem was.  Wasn't until modern times that actual > surnames were attached to the given names to clarify what family > these people came from. > Just rambling thoughts... I may be way off base.  But if you study > the history of the country it was always in some sort of turmoil, a > good reason to migrate and perhaps finally escape to America. > > > > Leslie Barker Thomas > Descendant of Isaac 1794-1878 and Harriet VanNorman > > Fear less; hope more. Eat less; chew more. Talk less; say more. Hate > less; love more, and all good thing will be yours. > - Swedish Proverb - > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

What are the chances that the VanArnhem/VanNormans came from Pskovskaya Region of Russia? Forgive me if I have not clearly comprehended the conversations of the last few weeks but I think I have understood that VanArnhem is not a true surname but a region that the Dircks, Theunis, and other surnames from the area could well have been Lavina, Belarus, or even Pskovskaya Oblast migrates. I say this because this is what is now showing up in my autosomal DNA tests... and I'm being connected to several Russia "cousins" rather than more Dutch or English ones. The interesting facts are that most of these peoples only have first names like Pelageya of Pskovskaya... which I can see that perhaps the "of" might have been deleted and the Pskovskaya been picked up as the surname like VanArnhem was. Wasn't until modern times that actual surnames were attached to the given names to clarify what family these people came from. Just rambling thoughts... I may be way off base. But if you study the history of the country it was always in some sort of turmoil, a good reason to migrate and perhaps finally escape to America. Leslie Barker Thomas Descendant of Isaac 1794-1878 and Harriet VanNorman Fear less; hope more. Eat less; chew more. Talk less; say more. Hate less; love more, and all good thing will be yours. - Swedish Proverb -

Thanks Linda N...for this research, here's some additional information on Isaac VanNorman's family during the CW: Charles R. VanNorman enlisted in the Wisconsin Volunteers Co. F, 4th Calvary was wounded 7-15-1862 at Yaazoo River mustered out 7-8-1865 CW application #1120408 - Charles married a woman named Nancy Janet LNU and although they had a daughter named Harriet b. Jan 18, 1871 in Pilot Mound, Minnesota she apparently died young. The migrated to North Dakota where he was listed on the 1890 Veteran's Schedule and in 1900 they had adopted a daughter named Virginia. Virginia is 12 on the 1900 census. In 1918 widow applied for Charles pension - she had to file in Washington State at the time. Charles died 16 April 1918 in Portland, Oregon. George W. VanNorman's pension application number was #222778 and was filed in Minnesota by his mother Harriett VanNorman Feb 16, 1885. He enlisted in in Fond du Lac as living in Lomira Wisconsin into the Wisconsin Volunteers, Co. E, 3rd Infantry. He was killed in action at Antietam, MD 9-17-1862. Also son Theodore S. Van Orman b. about 1843 - enlisted in the Wisconsin Volunteers, Co. K, 7th Infantry shortly after 1860 and was captured at Gettysburg and listed as died 8-19-1863 at the hospital in Richmond VA. of disease per the records - however he's on the 1865 Minnesota Territorial Census in Winona Co., Saratoga, MN living at home - we think he died there shortly afterwards of disease. Seems the records weren't always very accurate. James Melville was too young to serve as was brother Daniel. James M. married Susannah Rice daughter of Harrison and Sarah Cochraine Rice in 1870. Daniel married Elmira Ferris and mother Harriet is listed in their home in 1885 Territorial Minnesota State in the city of Raymond. Elmer was a child at the time of the CW. He was born in 1858 and died of typhoid fever in August of 1870. Daughters: Mary Harriett was married to Thomas J. Torrey and we believe he died in the CW. Her second husband was Duane Manilus Philes. Mary also went by the name of Hannah (which is another name for Mary). She filed in 1900 for Duane's CW pension records claiming she was an abandoned wife. He deserted his family in 1899 and hadn't been seen since. Duane served in Co. C, 9th Reg't of the Minnesota Volunteer Infantry. She claimed that first husband Torrey had disappeared during the CW and that she had had him declared as dead. They wouldn't let her claim pension money on Torrey since his body was never found... she filed for half of Duane's pension. Adelia Sylvia married Charles L. Orcutt - she apparently died prior to her father Isaac dying as she isn't listed in the will. Some researchers have Charles as being in Co. F, 9th Reg't of the Minnesota Volunteer Infantry. He wa discharged July 26, 1865 and filed for his pension in 1893. Their two boys were reared by Harriett and are found on the 1880 census living with their grandmother then. Ella Elizabeth married my great grandfather Morris Lusk Barker in 1888. He served in the 103rd Ohio - his pension file was almost 2 inches thick as he had to substantiate he was an American - since he had lied about everything from where he was born to who his parents were. He was only 14 when he enlisted. He was fighting in Georgia (where I live now) at Resaca while my husband's great grandfather was fighting in the Wheat Fields of Gettysburg. Nope we seldom fight over the CW - we have learned that it was a horrific time and we accept that it was horrible for both sides. Leslie Barker Thomas Fear less; hope more. Eat less; chew more. Talk less; say more. Hate less; love more, and all good thing will be yours. - Swedish Proverb - On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Linda Noggle <lindanoggle@verizon.net>wrote: > Hi All, > > I went to the National Archives and looked at a few of the Van Norman > pensions for the civil war. Thought these might be of interest to > those > that are related > > > > > George W. Van Norman - Co E. 3rd Reg. - WIsconsin Infantry - > enlisted from > Fond du Lac, Wisconsin > > Born 1840 - New York - died 9/17/1862 at Antietam > his mother Harriet Van Norman filed for pension in 1885 > It looks like she did not furnish all the information they needed, > > It did say she was the wife of Isaac Van Norman who had died > 12/22/1879, > aged 84 years > It did not give her maiden name > It listed the surving brothers and sisters of George > > Charles R. born 1837 > Mary H. born 1838 > Theo S. born 1843 > James M. born 1845 > Daniel E. born 1847 > Adelia S. born 1849 > Ella E. born 1853 > Elmer J. born 1856 > > > > A E. Koefod and Olle Gilbertson signed as witnesses to her > declaration for > pension. > > > > Linda Noggle > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN- request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Linda Are James O. Vanorman parents Abraham and Sally Pratt Vanorman? And was the other son that was in the war William ? Thanks Linda On Oct 29, 2010, at 11:25 AM, Linda Schwenn wrote: > Thanks Linda, for posting this. Just a comment about James O and Cynthia. He > had 6 sons. Three died as infants (Alvin, Moses, and Jay) and two died in > the war. Only James Birney lived his full span of years. How tragic. FYI: > in the 1870 census Mary Johnson also has a daughter Mary E. age 8. > > Linda Schwenn > > On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Linda Noggle <lindanoggle@verizon.net>wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I went to the National Archives and looked at a few of the Van Norman >> pensions for the civil war. Thought these might be of interest to those >> that are related >> >> >> Nathaniel D. VanOrman - Pvt Co. H, 2nd Regiment US Infantry - died >> 5/29/1863 at Hospital in Washington, D.C. from gunshot wounds received at >> Spotsylvania Courthouse, VA. >> His father James O. Vanorman made application for pension in 1876. >> >> James O. Vanorman was born in 1813 - he is the one listed on our census >> list in 1840 in Calais, Washington, Vermont.(from census list of Stephen >> Wood - thank you Stephen I use this list alot.) >> >> The pension papers indicated James O. Vanorman was married to Cynthia Dodge >> on 1/1/1837 in Marshfield, Vermont at her father's home. >> Cynthia died 7/17/1857. They had 4 children - Nathaniel, James, William and >> Ann. James O. then married Sophronia Parker - does not give date but >> probably about 1859 since she is listed on the 1860 census with him in St. >> Lawrence, Russell, New York. It did say that she and James did not have any >> children together. In 1864 they moved to Malone, Franklin Co., New York. >> Sophronia had an inheritance from her father Isaac Parker. When they left >> Russell - the land that James O. Vanorman had he left to his son James B. >> Vanorman. >> Sophronia died about 1870 and James O. married Mary Johnson 9/26/1871 in >> Malone, Franklin Co., NY - I looked at 1880 census and found them listed - >> she had three children by her previous marriage - George, Lincoln and >> William and 4 children from her marriage to James O. - Cynthia, Belledora, >> Alma, and Harry. (It did not give maiden name of Mary Johnson) >> James died 12/6/1892 >> >> The pension papers included some handwritten letters from Nathaniel to his >> father James during the war. I made copies of these and some of the other >> documents from the file, which I plan to scan to the website when I get >> some time. >> >> >> >> >> >> Robert Van Orman - Co H., 193rd Regiment NY Infantry >> >> Robert was born in 1823 in New York and died 4/13/1896. >> He married Henrietta Davenport 7/1/1842 >> Robert and Henrietta are listed on the census records from 1850 - 1880 >> living in Ithaca, Tompkins Co., New York >> They had two children - George and Lewis. Henrietta died 3/4/1889. >> >> It was George F. Vanorman (born 11/4/1850) that applied for pension >> indicating he was blind and had always depended on his father. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> George B. Vanorman - Co D., 143th Regiment, NY Infantry >> >> Company enlisted from Ithaca, Tompkins Co., New York. >> George born 1841 - died 10/25/1902 >> He was married to Lizzie VIncent in 6/1875 in Palmyra, Missouri and >> divorced at the same place >> >> He had a son Henry Vanorman - born 7/28/1876. >> >> He filed for pension from state of Illinois - and an address found in >> papers was in Rushville, Schuyler Co., Illinois >> >> >> >> >> Jacob Harry Van Norman - Co H 111st Regiment, Ohio Infantry >> >> Jacob married Martha Collins on 11/24/1870 . They met at the boarding >> house Martha worked at and John lived at in Toledo, Ohio. >> Jacob went by the name of Harry. >> >> Living children as of 1897 >> >> Charles born 12/17/1871 >> Fred - 12/22/1872 >> Albert - 8/7/1875 >> Sophia - 2/28/1877 >> William - 5/19/1879 >> Hattie - 7/7/1887 >> >> Jacob died 6/5/1902 in Ohio >> >> >> >> >> George W. Van Norman - Co E. 3rd Reg. - WIsconsin Infantry - enlisted from >> Fond du Lac, Wisconsin >> >> Born 1840 - New York - died 9/17/1862 at Antietam >> his mother Harriet Van Norman filed for pension in 1885 >> It looks like she did not furnish all the information they needed, >> >> It did say she was the wife of Isaac Van Norman who had died 12/22/1879, >> aged 84 years >> It did not give her maiden name >> It listed the surving brothers and sisters of George >> >> Charles R. born 1837 >> Mary H. born 1838 >> Theo S. born 1843 >> James M. born 1845 >> Daniel E. born 1847 >> Adelia S. born 1849 >> Ella E. born 1853 >> Elmer J. born 1856 >> >> >> >> A E. Koefod and Olle Gilbertson signed as witnesses to her declaration for >> pension. >> >> >> >> Linda Noggle >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Stephen, I could not find them in the 1880 census either, but I looked on the Mormom site - Pilot search program and found some of the children's marriage records and they indicated they were born in Toledo, Ohio Listed parents as Harry and Martha Collins Van Norman I did find Martha with son Fred in the 1920 census in Toledo, Ohio under the name Van Naman I have no idea about the parents. Linda On Oct 29, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Stephen Wood wrote: > I second the vote of thanks Linda! - these have helped me sort out a > couple of my family entries. > > With regards to Jacob Harry [Harrison??] Van Norman > > I have him from the 1900 census [Lima Ward 3, Allen Co., Ohio], but > can't locate him in any earlier ones..... Have you had any better > luck? > > I'm also not sure who his parents are, as all my best choices are > accounted for - any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Stephen > > On 10/29/10, Linda Noggle <lindanoggle@verizon.net> wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> I went to the National Archives and looked at a few of the Van Norman >> pensions for the civil war. Thought these might be of interest to those >> that are related >> >> >> >> Jacob Harry Van Norman - Co H 111st Regiment, Ohio Infantry >> >> Jacob married Martha Collins on 11/24/1870 . They met at the boarding house >> Martha worked at and John lived at in Toledo, Ohio. >> Jacob went by the name of Harry. >> >> Living children as of 1897 >> >> Charles born 12/17/1871 >> Fred - 12/22/1872 >> Albert - 8/7/1875 >> Sophia - 2/28/1877 >> William - 5/19/1879 >> Hattie - 7/7/1887 >> >> Jacob died 6/5/1902 in Ohio > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I second the vote of thanks Linda! - these have helped me sort out a couple of my family entries. With regards to Jacob Harry [Harrison??] Van Norman I have him from the 1900 census [Lima Ward 3, Allen Co., Ohio], but can't locate him in any earlier ones..... Have you had any better luck? I'm also not sure who his parents are, as all my best choices are accounted for - any suggestions? Thanks, Stephen On 10/29/10, Linda Noggle <lindanoggle@verizon.net> wrote: > Hi All, > > I went to the National Archives and looked at a few of the Van Norman > pensions for the civil war. Thought these might be of interest to those > that are related > > > > Jacob Harry Van Norman - Co H 111st Regiment, Ohio Infantry > > Jacob married Martha Collins on 11/24/1870 . They met at the boarding house > Martha worked at and John lived at in Toledo, Ohio. > Jacob went by the name of Harry. > > Living children as of 1897 > > Charles born 12/17/1871 > Fred - 12/22/1872 > Albert - 8/7/1875 > Sophia - 2/28/1877 > William - 5/19/1879 > Hattie - 7/7/1887 > > Jacob died 6/5/1902 in Ohio

Thanks Linda, for posting this. Just a comment about James O and Cynthia. He had 6 sons. Three died as infants (Alvin, Moses, and Jay) and two died in the war. Only James Birney lived his full span of years. How tragic. FYI: in the 1870 census Mary Johnson also has a daughter Mary E. age 8. Linda Schwenn On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Linda Noggle <lindanoggle@verizon.net>wrote: > Hi All, > > I went to the National Archives and looked at a few of the Van Norman > pensions for the civil war. Thought these might be of interest to those > that are related > > > Nathaniel D. VanOrman - Pvt Co. H, 2nd Regiment US Infantry - died > 5/29/1863 at Hospital in Washington, D.C. from gunshot wounds received at > Spotsylvania Courthouse, VA. > His father James O. Vanorman made application for pension in 1876. > > James O. Vanorman was born in 1813 - he is the one listed on our census > list in 1840 in Calais, Washington, Vermont.(from census list of Stephen > Wood - thank you Stephen I use this list alot.) > > The pension papers indicated James O. Vanorman was married to Cynthia Dodge > on 1/1/1837 in Marshfield, Vermont at her father's home. > Cynthia died 7/17/1857. They had 4 children - Nathaniel, James, William and > Ann. James O. then married Sophronia Parker - does not give date but > probably about 1859 since she is listed on the 1860 census with him in St. > Lawrence, Russell, New York. It did say that she and James did not have any > children together. In 1864 they moved to Malone, Franklin Co., New York. > Sophronia had an inheritance from her father Isaac Parker. When they left > Russell - the land that James O. Vanorman had he left to his son James B. > Vanorman. > Sophronia died about 1870 and James O. married Mary Johnson 9/26/1871 in > Malone, Franklin Co., NY - I looked at 1880 census and found them listed - > she had three children by her previous marriage - George, Lincoln and > William and 4 children from her marriage to James O. - Cynthia, Belledora, > Alma, and Harry. (It did not give maiden name of Mary Johnson) > James died 12/6/1892 > > The pension papers included some handwritten letters from Nathaniel to his > father James during the war. I made copies of these and some of the other > documents from the file, which I plan to scan to the website when I get > some time. > > > > > > Robert Van Orman - Co H., 193rd Regiment NY Infantry > > Robert was born in 1823 in New York and died 4/13/1896. > He married Henrietta Davenport 7/1/1842 > Robert and Henrietta are listed on the census records from 1850 - 1880 > living in Ithaca, Tompkins Co., New York > They had two children - George and Lewis. Henrietta died 3/4/1889. > > It was George F. Vanorman (born 11/4/1850) that applied for pension > indicating he was blind and had always depended on his father. > > > > > > > George B. Vanorman - Co D., 143th Regiment, NY Infantry > > Company enlisted from Ithaca, Tompkins Co., New York. > George born 1841 - died 10/25/1902 > He was married to Lizzie VIncent in 6/1875 in Palmyra, Missouri and > divorced at the same place > > He had a son Henry Vanorman - born 7/28/1876. > > He filed for pension from state of Illinois - and an address found in > papers was in Rushville, Schuyler Co., Illinois > > > > > Jacob Harry Van Norman - Co H 111st Regiment, Ohio Infantry > > Jacob married Martha Collins on 11/24/1870 . They met at the boarding > house Martha worked at and John lived at in Toledo, Ohio. > Jacob went by the name of Harry. > > Living children as of 1897 > > Charles born 12/17/1871 > Fred - 12/22/1872 > Albert - 8/7/1875 > Sophia - 2/28/1877 > William - 5/19/1879 > Hattie - 7/7/1887 > > Jacob died 6/5/1902 in Ohio > > > > > George W. Van Norman - Co E. 3rd Reg. - WIsconsin Infantry - enlisted from > Fond du Lac, Wisconsin > > Born 1840 - New York - died 9/17/1862 at Antietam > his mother Harriet Van Norman filed for pension in 1885 > It looks like she did not furnish all the information they needed, > > It did say she was the wife of Isaac Van Norman who had died 12/22/1879, > aged 84 years > It did not give her maiden name > It listed the surving brothers and sisters of George > > Charles R. born 1837 > Mary H. born 1838 > Theo S. born 1843 > James M. born 1845 > Daniel E. born 1847 > Adelia S. born 1849 > Ella E. born 1853 > Elmer J. born 1856 > > > > A E. Koefod and Olle Gilbertson signed as witnesses to her declaration for > pension. > > > > Linda Noggle > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi All, I went to the National Archives and looked at a few of the Van Norman pensions for the civil war. Thought these might be of interest to those that are related Nathaniel D. VanOrman - Pvt Co. H, 2nd Regiment US Infantry - died 5/29/1863 at Hospital in Washington, D.C. from gunshot wounds received at Spotsylvania Courthouse, VA. His father James O. Vanorman made application for pension in 1876. James O. Vanorman was born in 1813 - he is the one listed on our census list in 1840 in Calais, Washington, Vermont.(from census list of Stephen Wood - thank you Stephen I use this list alot.) The pension papers indicated James O. Vanorman was married to Cynthia Dodge on 1/1/1837 in Marshfield, Vermont at her father's home. Cynthia died 7/17/1857. They had 4 children - Nathaniel, James, William and Ann. James O. then married Sophronia Parker - does not give date but probably about 1859 since she is listed on the 1860 census with him in St. Lawrence, Russell, New York. It did say that she and James did not have any children together. In 1864 they moved to Malone, Franklin Co., New York. Sophronia had an inheritance from her father Isaac Parker. When they left Russell - the land that James O. Vanorman had he left to his son James B. Vanorman. Sophronia died about 1870 and James O. married Mary Johnson 9/26/1871 in Malone, Franklin Co., NY - I looked at 1880 census and found them listed - she had three children by her previous marriage - George, Lincoln and William and 4 children from her marriage to James O. - Cynthia, Belledora, Alma, and Harry. (It did not give maiden name of Mary Johnson) James died 12/6/1892 The pension papers included some handwritten letters from Nathaniel to his father James during the war. I made copies of these and some of the other documents from the file, which I plan to scan to the website when I get some time. Robert Van Orman - Co H., 193rd Regiment NY Infantry Robert was born in 1823 in New York and died 4/13/1896. He married Henrietta Davenport 7/1/1842 Robert and Henrietta are listed on the census records from 1850 - 1880 living in Ithaca, Tompkins Co., New York They had two children - George and Lewis. Henrietta died 3/4/1889. It was George F. Vanorman (born 11/4/1850) that applied for pension indicating he was blind and had always depended on his father. George B. Vanorman - Co D., 143th Regiment, NY Infantry Company enlisted from Ithaca, Tompkins Co., New York. George born 1841 - died 10/25/1902 He was married to Lizzie VIncent in 6/1875 in Palmyra, Missouri and divorced at the same place He had a son Henry Vanorman - born 7/28/1876. He filed for pension from state of Illinois - and an address found in papers was in Rushville, Schuyler Co., Illinois Jacob Harry Van Norman - Co H 111st Regiment, Ohio Infantry Jacob married Martha Collins on 11/24/1870 . They met at the boarding house Martha worked at and John lived at in Toledo, Ohio. Jacob went by the name of Harry. Living children as of 1897 Charles born 12/17/1871 Fred - 12/22/1872 Albert - 8/7/1875 Sophia - 2/28/1877 William - 5/19/1879 Hattie - 7/7/1887 Jacob died 6/5/1902 in Ohio George W. Van Norman - Co E. 3rd Reg. - WIsconsin Infantry - enlisted from Fond du Lac, Wisconsin Born 1840 - New York - died 9/17/1862 at Antietam his mother Harriet Van Norman filed for pension in 1885 It looks like she did not furnish all the information they needed, It did say she was the wife of Isaac Van Norman who had died 12/22/1879, aged 84 years It did not give her maiden name It listed the surving brothers and sisters of George Charles R. born 1837 Mary H. born 1838 Theo S. born 1843 James M. born 1845 Daniel E. born 1847 Adelia S. born 1849 Ella E. born 1853 Elmer J. born 1856 A E. Koefod and Olle Gilbertson signed as witnesses to her declaration for pension. Linda Noggle

In addition, her name is Sara Teunis. And she's from Rotterdam. Not Sara Jansze. Not Sara Saline. There's no commonality. It's also "and child", not a personalized "dau(ghter)", or "age xx". Quite simply, the captain of the vessel was taking inventory. The name of the child mattered no more than if it were luggage. Corneliss probably got a little deal on not requiring meals for the "sucking" child. On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 8:18 PM, <jroguetech@gmail.com> wrote: > There is a clear pattern of children not being named. In addition, > wives are also not named. > Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child > Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children > Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 8:08 PM, Susan Claggett > <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >> Point me to the evidence of what you state please.  Thanks >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:07 PM >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of >> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> >> Sara Teunis listed on the manifest is not the child of Lysbet: >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child [line break] >> Sara Teunis [origin unknown, single, no children] >> >> The same argument could be made that Lybeth is the child of Corneliss, >> and not the wife of John Saline: >> Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, >> Wife of John Saline, and child >> >> The linebreaks are very significant. >> >> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Susan Claggett >> <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >>> Thanks Linda!  Can you see what I am saying about this Sara Teunis (aboard >>> the De Trouw) being a 3 year old child?  I have made many interesting >>> discoveries and will share soon so we can discuss the validity. >>> >>> Susan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Linda Schwenn [mailto:schwel@comcast.net] >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 7:38 PM >>> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of >>> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >>> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >>> >>> Susan and jroquetech: I am so grateful that you are posting this info. I >>> haven't the time right now to follow all this research in the depth I'd >> like >>> and hope I don't miss something essential in all this. I wonder if either >> of >>> you, or all you lurkers who've been following along, have seen Dutch >> records >>> to support the following which I received several years ago: >>> >>> *Descendants of Jan Derryckssen and Gerriken Beecken* >>> >>>  1. *Jan*1 *Derryckssen*, born abt 1593. He married on 23 May 1619 in >>> Arnhem, Gelderland, Netherlands *Gerriken* *Beecken*. >>> >>>  Children of Jan Derryckssen and Gerriken Beecken were as follows: >>> >>> + 2 i *Dirkje Jantze*2 *Van Arnhem*, born abt 1615; died in Arnhem, >>> Gelderland, Netherlands. He married *Magdaleentjen* *Janssen*. >>> >>>  *Generation 2* >>> >>>  2. *Dirkje Jantze*2 *Van Arnhem* (Jan1), born abt 1615; died in Arnhem, >>> Gelderland, Netherlands. He married on 22 Apr 1638 in Arnhem, Gelderland, >>> Netherlands *Magdaleentjen* *Janssen*, born abt 1615. >>> >>>  *Notes for Dirkje Jantze Van Arnhem* >>> >>> Was an officer under William II, Prince of Oranje, Count of Nassau. He >>> supposedly served with Saloman, brother of Rembrandt Harmenszoon van Rijn, >>> who was the subject of the painting "Man in a Golden Helmet". >>> >>> Children of Dirkje Jantze Van Arnhem and Magdaleentjen Janssen were as >>> follows: >>> >>>  3 i *Derryckssen*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 3 Feb 1638/39. >>> >>> + 4 ii *Jan Dirckszen*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 13 Oct 1640 in Arnhem, >>> Gelderland, Nederlandt, died abt 1739 in New York, New York. >>> >>>  5 iii *Joris*3 *Van Arnhem*, born 25 Jan 1642/43. >>> >>>  6 iv *Hendrik*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 14 Jul 1647. >>> >>>  7 v *Marricken*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened Nov 1649. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Susan Claggett >>> <claimtofame@claggett6.com>wrote: >>> >>>> Is this just coincidental to you? >>>> >>>> Lysbeth De Roode from Danzig and child (wife of John Salme) and her child >>>> three years old came to New Netherland by the De Trouw, which sailed >>>> January >>>> 20, 1664.  Six months later her daughter Sara was baptized in New >>>> Amsterdam. >>>> >>>> >>>> 1664 Jul 23; Jan Salmie, Lysbeth Roden; Sara; Lambert Janszen Bosch, Sara >>>> Ver Plancken, Barbara Willems >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:10 PM >>>> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >>>> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of >>>> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >>>> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >>>> >>>> It sources Olive Tree, which is the source of the list I pasted. They >>>> attributed Sara Teunis as the child of Lysbet, when there is no reason >>>> to assume Sara is the child, and reason to believe she is not. Indeed, >>>> Olive Tree delinates the two entries as separate people. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Susan Claggett >>>> <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >>>> > The link was stripped.  I will try again. >>>> > http://www.slideshare.net/rhokel/index-to-new-netherland-ships-1660 >>>> > >>>> > More than half of my messages are returned to me for no apparent >>>> > reason...frustrating. >>>> > Susan >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >>>> > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 5:43 PM >>>> > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >>>> > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of >>>> > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >>>> > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >>>> > >>>> > I'm not sure of your source, but whatever the source is, it apparently >>>> > makes the mistake of assigning Lysbet De Roode's child to Sara >>>> > Theunis, listed below her. This is an error. Her child is not named, >>>> > nor is the "suckling child" of above him of Cornelius, or the four >>>> > children above him of Johannis, or the child of Lysbet above him. >>>> > >>>> > Here is the ship list: >>>> > Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer >>>> > Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda >>>> > Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child >>>> > Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children >>>> > Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum >>>> > Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >>>> > Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child >>>> > Sara Teunis >>>> > >>>> > Clearly Sara Teunis is NOT the child of Lysbet de Roode, and is either >>>> > an adult. This is still the best bet for our Sara based on available >>>> > evidence presented thus far. >>>> > >>>> > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Susan Claggett >>>> > <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara >>>> Teunis >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> The Faith (De Trouw) passenger list shows Sara Teunis as a child on >> the >>>> >> passenger list.  It is my opinion that if she were a single young >> woman >>>> > (and >>>> >> our Sara Teunis) it would have stated maiden behind her name and from >>>> like >>>> >> the others on this list.  This is not our Sara Teunis. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Susan >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> The Faith (De Trouw) >>>> >> >>>> >> December 13 1660. Captain Jan Jans Bestevaer from Lists Of Inhabitants >>>> Of >>>> >> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >>>> >> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Christiaen de Lorie, from St Malo, wife, mother and sister >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Hendrick Jansen Spier and Wife and two children 4 and 5 yrs old >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Adriaen Huybertsen Sterrevelt; Agriculturist >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Harmen Stepfer, from the Dutchy of Cleef >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Joost Adriaensen Pynacker, from Delft >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Philip Langelens; Agriculturist, and Wife and two children >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Hendrick Bos, from Leyden, and Wife and two children >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Gerrit Gerritsen, from Wageningen, and Wife and one child. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> William Aertsen, from Wagening. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Gerrit van Manen, from Wagening >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Albert Gerritsen, from Wagening. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Jan Gerritsen Hagel >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Hendrick Jansen, from Wagening >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Jan Aertsen, from Amersfoort >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Tys Jansen, from Amersfoort >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Wessel Wesselsen, from Munster >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Adolph Hardenbroeck, and Wife and Son 25 yrs old. (Pieter Rudolphus >>>> agrees >>>> >> to pay passage for the son of Adolph) >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Claes Theunissen, from Gorcum, and his servant, and boy >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Lubbert Harmensen, from Overyssel >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Lammert Huybertsen, [Brink?] from Wagening, and Wife and two children >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Jan Harmans and Wife and sucking child >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Roeloft Hendricks from Drenthe >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Femmetje Hendricksen, maiden >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Maria Mooris, from Arnhem, maiden >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Marten Abrahamsen, from Bloemendael, and Wife and two children >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> The Wife of Hans Sodurat, Baker, and two children >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Leendert Arentsen Groenevelt, and Wife >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Aeltje Jacobsen; maiden >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Willem Petersen, from Amersfoort [Van Slyke aka Neef, the nephew of >>>> Lorine >>>> >> McGinnis Schulze's Cornelis Antonissen Van Slyke] >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Claes Tysen, cooper, and two children >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> March 1662 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund >>>> Bailey >>>> >> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland >>>> 1657-1664 >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Lysbert Harmens, from the Traert >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Jan Gerrits, from Embden; labourer >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Jacob Wouters, from Amsterdam >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Barent Witten Hooft, from Munster, Tailor, and Wife and two children >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Stoffel Smet, from Keurlo; Agriculturist >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Precilla Homes, and her brother, and one suckling >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Thomas Harmensen Brouwers, from Sevenbergen; farmer >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Symon Cornie; farmer from France, and Wife >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Adriaen Gerritsen, from Utrecht; Agriculturist, and Wife and five >>>> children >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Albert Jansen, from Steenwyck; Tailor >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Reinier Petersen, from Steenwyck; Agriculturer >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Claes van Campen, from Oldenburg; farmer's boy >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Adriaen Aartsen from Thillerwarden in Guilderland >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Hendrick Arentsen, from the same place; labourer >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> January 1664 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund >>>> > Bailey >>>> >> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland >>>> 1657-1664 >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara >>>> Teunis >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> ------------------------------- >>>> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >

Susan and jroquetech: I am so grateful that you are posting this info. I haven't the time right now to follow all this research in the depth I'd like and hope I don't miss something essential in all this. I wonder if either of you, or all you lurkers who've been following along, have seen Dutch records to support the following which I received several years ago: *Descendants of Jan Derryckssen and Gerriken Beecken* 1. *Jan*1 *Derryckssen*, born abt 1593. He married on 23 May 1619 in Arnhem, Gelderland, Netherlands *Gerriken* *Beecken*. Children of Jan Derryckssen and Gerriken Beecken were as follows: + 2 i *Dirkje Jantze*2 *Van Arnhem*, born abt 1615; died in Arnhem, Gelderland, Netherlands. He married *Magdaleentjen* *Janssen*. *Generation 2* 2. *Dirkje Jantze*2 *Van Arnhem* (Jan1), born abt 1615; died in Arnhem, Gelderland, Netherlands. He married on 22 Apr 1638 in Arnhem, Gelderland, Netherlands *Magdaleentjen* *Janssen*, born abt 1615. *Notes for Dirkje Jantze Van Arnhem* Was an officer under William II, Prince of Oranje, Count of Nassau. He supposedly served with Saloman, brother of Rembrandt Harmenszoon van Rijn, who was the subject of the painting "Man in a Golden Helmet". Children of Dirkje Jantze Van Arnhem and Magdaleentjen Janssen were as follows: 3 i *Derryckssen*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 3 Feb 1638/39. + 4 ii *Jan Dirckszen*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 13 Oct 1640 in Arnhem, Gelderland, Nederlandt, died abt 1739 in New York, New York. 5 iii *Joris*3 *Van Arnhem*, born 25 Jan 1642/43. 6 iv *Hendrik*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 14 Jul 1647. 7 v *Marricken*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened Nov 1649. On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com>wrote: > Is this just coincidental to you? > > Lysbeth De Roode from Danzig and child (wife of John Salme) and her child > three years old came to New Netherland by the De Trouw, which sailed > January > 20, 1664. Six months later her daughter Sara was baptized in New > Amsterdam. > > > 1664 Jul 23; Jan Salmie, Lysbeth Roden; Sara; Lambert Janszen Bosch, Sara > Ver Plancken, Barbara Willems > > -----Original Message----- > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:10 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > > It sources Olive Tree, which is the source of the list I pasted. They > attributed Sara Teunis as the child of Lysbet, when there is no reason > to assume Sara is the child, and reason to believe she is not. Indeed, > Olive Tree delinates the two entries as separate people. > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Susan Claggett > <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > > The link was stripped. I will try again. > > http://www.slideshare.net/rhokel/index-to-new-netherland-ships-1660 > > > > More than half of my messages are returned to me for no apparent > > reason...frustrating. > > Susan > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 5:43 PM > > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of > > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early > > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > > > > I'm not sure of your source, but whatever the source is, it apparently > > makes the mistake of assigning Lysbet De Roode's child to Sara > > Theunis, listed below her. This is an error. Her child is not named, > > nor is the "suckling child" of above him of Cornelius, or the four > > children above him of Johannis, or the child of Lysbet above him. > > > > Here is the ship list: > > Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer > > Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda > > Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child > > Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children > > Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum > > Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child > > Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child > > Sara Teunis > > > > Clearly Sara Teunis is NOT the child of Lysbet de Roode, and is either > > an adult. This is still the best bet for our Sara based on available > > evidence presented thus far. > > > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Susan Claggett > > <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara > Teunis > >> > >> > >> > >> The Faith (De Trouw) passenger list shows Sara Teunis as a child on the > >> passenger list. It is my opinion that if she were a single young woman > > (and > >> our Sara Teunis) it would have stated maiden behind her name and from > like > >> the others on this list. This is not our Sara Teunis. > >> > >> > >> > >> Susan > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> The Faith (De Trouw) > >> > >> December 13 1660. Captain Jan Jans Bestevaer from Lists Of Inhabitants > Of > >> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early > >> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > >> > >> > >> > >> Christiaen de Lorie, from St Malo, wife, mother and sister > >> > >> > >> > >> Hendrick Jansen Spier and Wife and two children 4 and 5 yrs old > >> > >> > >> > >> Adriaen Huybertsen Sterrevelt; Agriculturist > >> > >> > >> > >> Harmen Stepfer, from the Dutchy of Cleef > >> > >> > >> > >> Joost Adriaensen Pynacker, from Delft > >> > >> > >> > >> Philip Langelens; Agriculturist, and Wife and two children > >> > >> > >> > >> Hendrick Bos, from Leyden, and Wife and two children > >> > >> > >> > >> Gerrit Gerritsen, from Wageningen, and Wife and one child. > >> > >> > >> > >> William Aertsen, from Wagening. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Gerrit van Manen, from Wagening > >> > >> > >> > >> Albert Gerritsen, from Wagening. > >> > >> > >> > >> Jan Gerritsen Hagel > >> > >> > >> > >> Hendrick Jansen, from Wagening > >> > >> > >> > >> Jan Aertsen, from Amersfoort > >> > >> > >> > >> Tys Jansen, from Amersfoort > >> > >> > >> > >> Wessel Wesselsen, from Munster > >> > >> > >> > >> Adolph Hardenbroeck, and Wife and Son 25 yrs old. (Pieter Rudolphus > agrees > >> to pay passage for the son of Adolph) > >> > >> > >> > >> Claes Theunissen, from Gorcum, and his servant, and boy > >> > >> > >> > >> Lubbert Harmensen, from Overyssel > >> > >> > >> > >> Lammert Huybertsen, [Brink?] from Wagening, and Wife and two children > >> > >> > >> > >> Jan Harmans and Wife and sucking child > >> > >> > >> > >> Roeloft Hendricks from Drenthe > >> > >> > >> > >> Femmetje Hendricksen, maiden > >> > >> > >> > >> Maria Mooris, from Arnhem, maiden > >> > >> > >> > >> Marten Abrahamsen, from Bloemendael, and Wife and two children > >> > >> > >> > >> The Wife of Hans Sodurat, Baker, and two children > >> > >> > >> > >> Leendert Arentsen Groenevelt, and Wife > >> > >> > >> > >> Aeltje Jacobsen; maiden > >> > >> > >> > >> Willem Petersen, from Amersfoort [Van Slyke aka Neef, the nephew of > Lorine > >> McGinnis Schulze's Cornelis Antonissen Van Slyke] > >> > >> > >> > >> Claes Tysen, cooper, and two children > >> > >> > >> > >> March 1662 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund > Bailey > >> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland > 1657-1664 > >> > >> > >> > >> Lysbert Harmens, from the Traert > >> > >> > >> > >> Jan Gerrits, from Embden; labourer > >> > >> > >> > >> Jacob Wouters, from Amsterdam > >> > >> > >> > >> Barent Witten Hooft, from Munster, Tailor, and Wife and two children > >> > >> > >> > >> Stoffel Smet, from Keurlo; Agriculturist > >> > >> > >> > >> Precilla Homes, and her brother, and one suckling > >> > >> > >> > >> Thomas Harmensen Brouwers, from Sevenbergen; farmer > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Symon Cornie; farmer from France, and Wife > >> > >> > >> > >> Adriaen Gerritsen, from Utrecht; Agriculturist, and Wife and five > children > >> > >> > >> > >> Albert Jansen, from Steenwyck; Tailor > >> > >> > >> > >> Reinier Petersen, from Steenwyck; Agriculturer > >> > >> > >> > >> Claes van Campen, from Oldenburg; farmer's boy > >> > >> > >> > >> Adriaen Aartsen from Thillerwarden in Guilderland > >> > >> > >> > >> Hendrick Arentsen, from the same place; labourer > >> > >> > >> > >> January 1664 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund > > Bailey > >> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland > 1657-1664 > >> > >> > >> > >> Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer > >> > >> > >> > >> Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda > >> > >> > >> > >> Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child > >> > >> > >> > >> Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children > >> > >> > >> > >> Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum > >> > >> > >> > >> Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child > >> > >> > >> > >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara > Teunis > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

There is a clear pattern of children not being named. In addition, wives are also not named. Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 8:08 PM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > Point me to the evidence of what you state please.  Thanks > > -----Original Message----- > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:07 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > > Sara Teunis listed on the manifest is not the child of Lysbet: > Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child [line break] > Sara Teunis [origin unknown, single, no children] > > The same argument could be made that Lybeth is the child of Corneliss, > and not the wife of John Saline: > Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child > Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, > Wife of John Saline, and child > > The linebreaks are very significant. > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Susan Claggett > <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >> Thanks Linda!  Can you see what I am saying about this Sara Teunis (aboard >> the De Trouw) being a 3 year old child?  I have made many interesting >> discoveries and will share soon so we can discuss the validity. >> >> Susan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Linda Schwenn [mailto:schwel@comcast.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 7:38 PM >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of >> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> >> Susan and jroquetech: I am so grateful that you are posting this info. I >> haven't the time right now to follow all this research in the depth I'd > like >> and hope I don't miss something essential in all this. I wonder if either > of >> you, or all you lurkers who've been following along, have seen Dutch > records >> to support the following which I received several years ago: >> >> *Descendants of Jan Derryckssen and Gerriken Beecken* >> >>  1. *Jan*1 *Derryckssen*, born abt 1593. He married on 23 May 1619 in >> Arnhem, Gelderland, Netherlands *Gerriken* *Beecken*. >> >>  Children of Jan Derryckssen and Gerriken Beecken were as follows: >> >> + 2 i *Dirkje Jantze*2 *Van Arnhem*, born abt 1615; died in Arnhem, >> Gelderland, Netherlands. He married *Magdaleentjen* *Janssen*. >> >>  *Generation 2* >> >>  2. *Dirkje Jantze*2 *Van Arnhem* (Jan1), born abt 1615; died in Arnhem, >> Gelderland, Netherlands. He married on 22 Apr 1638 in Arnhem, Gelderland, >> Netherlands *Magdaleentjen* *Janssen*, born abt 1615. >> >>  *Notes for Dirkje Jantze Van Arnhem* >> >> Was an officer under William II, Prince of Oranje, Count of Nassau. He >> supposedly served with Saloman, brother of Rembrandt Harmenszoon van Rijn, >> who was the subject of the painting "Man in a Golden Helmet". >> >> Children of Dirkje Jantze Van Arnhem and Magdaleentjen Janssen were as >> follows: >> >>  3 i *Derryckssen*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 3 Feb 1638/39. >> >> + 4 ii *Jan Dirckszen*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 13 Oct 1640 in Arnhem, >> Gelderland, Nederlandt, died abt 1739 in New York, New York. >> >>  5 iii *Joris*3 *Van Arnhem*, born 25 Jan 1642/43. >> >>  6 iv *Hendrik*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 14 Jul 1647. >> >>  7 v *Marricken*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened Nov 1649. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Susan Claggett >> <claimtofame@claggett6.com>wrote: >> >>> Is this just coincidental to you? >>> >>> Lysbeth De Roode from Danzig and child (wife of John Salme) and her child >>> three years old came to New Netherland by the De Trouw, which sailed >>> January >>> 20, 1664.  Six months later her daughter Sara was baptized in New >>> Amsterdam. >>> >>> >>> 1664 Jul 23; Jan Salmie, Lysbeth Roden; Sara; Lambert Janszen Bosch, Sara >>> Ver Plancken, Barbara Willems >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:10 PM >>> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of >>> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >>> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >>> >>> It sources Olive Tree, which is the source of the list I pasted. They >>> attributed Sara Teunis as the child of Lysbet, when there is no reason >>> to assume Sara is the child, and reason to believe she is not. Indeed, >>> Olive Tree delinates the two entries as separate people. >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Susan Claggett >>> <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >>> > The link was stripped.  I will try again. >>> > http://www.slideshare.net/rhokel/index-to-new-netherland-ships-1660 >>> > >>> > More than half of my messages are returned to me for no apparent >>> > reason...frustrating. >>> > Susan >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >>> > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 5:43 PM >>> > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >>> > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of >>> > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >>> > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >>> > >>> > I'm not sure of your source, but whatever the source is, it apparently >>> > makes the mistake of assigning Lysbet De Roode's child to Sara >>> > Theunis, listed below her. This is an error. Her child is not named, >>> > nor is the "suckling child" of above him of Cornelius, or the four >>> > children above him of Johannis, or the child of Lysbet above him. >>> > >>> > Here is the ship list: >>> > Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer >>> > Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda >>> > Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child >>> > Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children >>> > Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum >>> > Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >>> > Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child >>> > Sara Teunis >>> > >>> > Clearly Sara Teunis is NOT the child of Lysbet de Roode, and is either >>> > an adult. This is still the best bet for our Sara based on available >>> > evidence presented thus far. >>> > >>> > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Susan Claggett >>> > <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara >>> Teunis >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> The Faith (De Trouw) passenger list shows Sara Teunis as a child on > the >>> >> passenger list.  It is my opinion that if she were a single young > woman >>> > (and >>> >> our Sara Teunis) it would have stated maiden behind her name and from >>> like >>> >> the others on this list.  This is not our Sara Teunis. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Susan >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> The Faith (De Trouw) >>> >> >>> >> December 13 1660. Captain Jan Jans Bestevaer from Lists Of Inhabitants >>> Of >>> >> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >>> >> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Christiaen de Lorie, from St Malo, wife, mother and sister >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Hendrick Jansen Spier and Wife and two children 4 and 5 yrs old >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Adriaen Huybertsen Sterrevelt; Agriculturist >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Harmen Stepfer, from the Dutchy of Cleef >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Joost Adriaensen Pynacker, from Delft >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Philip Langelens; Agriculturist, and Wife and two children >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Hendrick Bos, from Leyden, and Wife and two children >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Gerrit Gerritsen, from Wageningen, and Wife and one child. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> William Aertsen, from Wagening. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Gerrit van Manen, from Wagening >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Albert Gerritsen, from Wagening. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Jan Gerritsen Hagel >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Hendrick Jansen, from Wagening >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Jan Aertsen, from Amersfoort >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Tys Jansen, from Amersfoort >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Wessel Wesselsen, from Munster >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Adolph Hardenbroeck, and Wife and Son 25 yrs old. (Pieter Rudolphus >>> agrees >>> >> to pay passage for the son of Adolph) >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Claes Theunissen, from Gorcum, and his servant, and boy >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Lubbert Harmensen, from Overyssel >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Lammert Huybertsen, [Brink?] from Wagening, and Wife and two children >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Jan Harmans and Wife and sucking child >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Roeloft Hendricks from Drenthe >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Femmetje Hendricksen, maiden >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Maria Mooris, from Arnhem, maiden >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Marten Abrahamsen, from Bloemendael, and Wife and two children >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> The Wife of Hans Sodurat, Baker, and two children >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Leendert Arentsen Groenevelt, and Wife >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Aeltje Jacobsen; maiden >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Willem Petersen, from Amersfoort [Van Slyke aka Neef, the nephew of >>> Lorine >>> >> McGinnis Schulze's Cornelis Antonissen Van Slyke] >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Claes Tysen, cooper, and two children >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> March 1662 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund >>> Bailey >>> >> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland >>> 1657-1664 >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Lysbert Harmens, from the Traert >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Jan Gerrits, from Embden; labourer >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Jacob Wouters, from Amsterdam >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Barent Witten Hooft, from Munster, Tailor, and Wife and two children >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Stoffel Smet, from Keurlo; Agriculturist >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Precilla Homes, and her brother, and one suckling >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Thomas Harmensen Brouwers, from Sevenbergen; farmer >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Symon Cornie; farmer from France, and Wife >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Adriaen Gerritsen, from Utrecht; Agriculturist, and Wife and five >>> children >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Albert Jansen, from Steenwyck; Tailor >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Reinier Petersen, from Steenwyck; Agriculturer >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Claes van Campen, from Oldenburg; farmer's boy >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Adriaen Aartsen from Thillerwarden in Guilderland >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Hendrick Arentsen, from the same place; labourer >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> January 1664 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund >>> > Bailey >>> >> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland >>> 1657-1664 >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara >>> Teunis >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------- >>> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------- >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------- >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Point me to the evidence of what you state please. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:07 PM To: vannorman@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 Sara Teunis listed on the manifest is not the child of Lysbet: Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child [line break] Sara Teunis [origin unknown, single, no children] The same argument could be made that Lybeth is the child of Corneliss, and not the wife of John Saline: Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child The linebreaks are very significant. On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Susan Claggett <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: > Thanks Linda!  Can you see what I am saying about this Sara Teunis (aboard > the De Trouw) being a 3 year old child?  I have made many interesting > discoveries and will share soon so we can discuss the validity. > > Susan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Linda Schwenn [mailto:schwel@comcast.net] > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 7:38 PM > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 > > Susan and jroquetech: I am so grateful that you are posting this info. I > haven't the time right now to follow all this research in the depth I'd like > and hope I don't miss something essential in all this. I wonder if either of > you, or all you lurkers who've been following along, have seen Dutch records > to support the following which I received several years ago: > > *Descendants of Jan Derryckssen and Gerriken Beecken* > >  1. *Jan*1 *Derryckssen*, born abt 1593. He married on 23 May 1619 in > Arnhem, Gelderland, Netherlands *Gerriken* *Beecken*. > >  Children of Jan Derryckssen and Gerriken Beecken were as follows: > > + 2 i *Dirkje Jantze*2 *Van Arnhem*, born abt 1615; died in Arnhem, > Gelderland, Netherlands. He married *Magdaleentjen* *Janssen*. > >  *Generation 2* > >  2. *Dirkje Jantze*2 *Van Arnhem* (Jan1), born abt 1615; died in Arnhem, > Gelderland, Netherlands. He married on 22 Apr 1638 in Arnhem, Gelderland, > Netherlands *Magdaleentjen* *Janssen*, born abt 1615. > >  *Notes for Dirkje Jantze Van Arnhem* > > Was an officer under William II, Prince of Oranje, Count of Nassau. He > supposedly served with Saloman, brother of Rembrandt Harmenszoon van Rijn, > who was the subject of the painting "Man in a Golden Helmet". > > Children of Dirkje Jantze Van Arnhem and Magdaleentjen Janssen were as > follows: > >  3 i *Derryckssen*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 3 Feb 1638/39. > > + 4 ii *Jan Dirckszen*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 13 Oct 1640 in Arnhem, > Gelderland, Nederlandt, died abt 1739 in New York, New York. > >  5 iii *Joris*3 *Van Arnhem*, born 25 Jan 1642/43. > >  6 iv *Hendrik*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened 14 Jul 1647. > >  7 v *Marricken*3 *Van Arnhem*, christened Nov 1649. > > > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Susan Claggett > <claimtofame@claggett6.com>wrote: > >> Is this just coincidental to you? >> >> Lysbeth De Roode from Danzig and child (wife of John Salme) and her child >> three years old came to New Netherland by the De Trouw, which sailed >> January >> 20, 1664.  Six months later her daughter Sara was baptized in New >> Amsterdam. >> >> >> 1664 Jul 23; Jan Salmie, Lysbeth Roden; Sara; Lambert Janszen Bosch, Sara >> Ver Plancken, Barbara Willems >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:10 PM >> To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of >> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> >> It sources Olive Tree, which is the source of the list I pasted. They >> attributed Sara Teunis as the child of Lysbet, when there is no reason >> to assume Sara is the child, and reason to believe she is not. Indeed, >> Olive Tree delinates the two entries as separate people. >> >> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Susan Claggett >> <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >> > The link was stripped.  I will try again. >> > http://www.slideshare.net/rhokel/index-to-new-netherland-ships-1660 >> > >> > More than half of my messages are returned to me for no apparent >> > reason...frustrating. >> > Susan >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: jroguetech@gmail.com [mailto:jroguetech@gmail.com] >> > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 5:43 PM >> > To: vannorman@rootsweb.com >> > Subject: Re: [VANNORMAN] The Faith (De Trouw) Lists Of Inhabitants Of >> > Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >> > Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> > >> > I'm not sure of your source, but whatever the source is, it apparently >> > makes the mistake of assigning Lysbet De Roode's child to Sara >> > Theunis, listed below her. This is an error. Her child is not named, >> > nor is the "suckling child" of above him of Cornelius, or the four >> > children above him of Johannis, or the child of Lysbet above him. >> > >> > Here is the ship list: >> > Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer >> > Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda >> > Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child >> > Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children >> > Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum >> > Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >> > Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child >> > Sara Teunis >> > >> > Clearly Sara Teunis is NOT the child of Lysbet de Roode, and is either >> > an adult. This is still the best bet for our Sara based on available >> > evidence presented thus far. >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Susan Claggett >> > <claimtofame@claggett6.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara >> Teunis >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The Faith (De Trouw) passenger list shows Sara Teunis as a child on the >> >> passenger list.  It is my opinion that if she were a single young woman >> > (and >> >> our Sara Teunis) it would have stated maiden behind her name and from >> like >> >> the others on this list.  This is not our Sara Teunis. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Susan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The Faith (De Trouw) >> >> >> >> December 13 1660. Captain Jan Jans Bestevaer from Lists Of Inhabitants >> Of >> >> Colonial New York by Edmund Bailey O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early >> >> Immigrants to New Netherland 1657-1664 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Christiaen de Lorie, from St Malo, wife, mother and sister >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hendrick Jansen Spier and Wife and two children 4 and 5 yrs old >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Adriaen Huybertsen Sterrevelt; Agriculturist >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Harmen Stepfer, from the Dutchy of Cleef >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Joost Adriaensen Pynacker, from Delft >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Philip Langelens; Agriculturist, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hendrick Bos, from Leyden, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Gerrit Gerritsen, from Wageningen, and Wife and one child. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> William Aertsen, from Wagening. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Gerrit van Manen, from Wagening >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Albert Gerritsen, from Wagening. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jan Gerritsen Hagel >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hendrick Jansen, from Wagening >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jan Aertsen, from Amersfoort >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Tys Jansen, from Amersfoort >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Wessel Wesselsen, from Munster >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Adolph Hardenbroeck, and Wife and Son 25 yrs old. (Pieter Rudolphus >> agrees >> >> to pay passage for the son of Adolph) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Claes Theunissen, from Gorcum, and his servant, and boy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lubbert Harmensen, from Overyssel >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lammert Huybertsen, [Brink?] from Wagening, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jan Harmans and Wife and sucking child >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Roeloft Hendricks from Drenthe >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Femmetje Hendricksen, maiden >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Maria Mooris, from Arnhem, maiden >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Marten Abrahamsen, from Bloemendael, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The Wife of Hans Sodurat, Baker, and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Leendert Arentsen Groenevelt, and Wife >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Aeltje Jacobsen; maiden >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Willem Petersen, from Amersfoort [Van Slyke aka Neef, the nephew of >> Lorine >> >> McGinnis Schulze's Cornelis Antonissen Van Slyke] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Claes Tysen, cooper, and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> March 1662 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund >> Bailey >> >> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland >> 1657-1664 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lysbert Harmens, from the Traert >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jan Gerrits, from Embden; labourer >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jacob Wouters, from Amsterdam >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Barent Witten Hooft, from Munster, Tailor, and Wife and two children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Stoffel Smet, from Keurlo; Agriculturist >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Precilla Homes, and her brother, and one suckling >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Thomas Harmensen Brouwers, from Sevenbergen; farmer >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Symon Cornie; farmer from France, and Wife >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Adriaen Gerritsen, from Utrecht; Agriculturist, and Wife and five >> children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Albert Jansen, from Steenwyck; Tailor >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Reinier Petersen, from Steenwyck; Agriculturer >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Claes van Campen, from Oldenburg; farmer's boy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Adriaen Aartsen from Thillerwarden in Guilderland >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hendrick Arentsen, from the same place; labourer >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> January 1664 from Lists Of Inhabitants Of Colonial New York by Edmund >> > Bailey >> >> O'Callaghan Chapter entitled Early Immigrants to New Netherland >> 1657-1664 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Maarcelis Jansen van Bommel; farmer >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Evert Tack, from the Barony of Breda >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lysbet Arens, from Amsterdam, and child >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Johannis Hardenbroeck, from Elberveld, and Wife and four children >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Janneken Juriaensen, from Gorcum >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Corneliss Cornelissen Vernoey, and Wife and sucking child >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lysbet de Roode, from Dantzick, Wife of John Saline, and child Sara >> Teunis >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VANNORMAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message