Yes, these are the right ones. Richard is actually James Richard according to family records. Robert, one of the twins, was Don's g. grandfather. William and Martha -- that is Warren and Sarah's oldest son, William R., who was 10 months old in the 1860 census of Dale County. Now we have to figure out who the Goff names belong to. We have no idea where Warren Vance was born in Georgia. Don's grandmother, Mattie Pearl Vance, was living in Columbus, Georgia after she got married and had their daughter (Don's mother). Mattie is buried in Phenix City we think. If you keep a database on Vances, we will gladly share what we have from Warren forward. We have a hunch, and hunches are notoriously wrong, that John W. Vance ended up moving to Florida, but as yet we have not found him after 1910. Do you happen to know if Alabama took a state census in 1885? Also do you know where to write for CSA military records in Alabama? Thank you so much for all of this. What part of Georgia do you live in? How's your weather? Don and Mary in Wyoming - where it has turned to Fall. >Look at these folks and see if they seem familiar: > >1880 Pike Co Al >#591 Warren Vance w m 47 born GA, father born VA, mother born NC > Sarah w f 43 GA SC > SC > Richard w m 17 AL GA > GA > Robert 11 > John 11 > Ella 10 > Mary 09 All of these are w, with the same >info as Richard. > >#593 Vance, Wm 19 > Martha 18 > Goff, Jessee 24 > Mary 34 > Jane 19 > Bettie 15 > >In 1880 Warren said his father was born in Virginia. > >You will want to contact Mary V. Shaw; 99 Shaw Lane, Alpine, Al 30514 > phone 205-268-0234. Mary has researched the Vances in Alabama for years and >is always willing to share her info. In the meantime, I will go through my >piles of data and see if I have anything on John. >By the way, I live in Georgia, not many Vances here. Do you have a clue as to >where yours were? >Happy Hunting, >Grace Dotson >