This came from another list, but since there are some Van's, various spelllings listed, I thought somebody might be interested in it, particularly Sasha. I am related to both families, but can't find the way to tie these into my history. Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 10:41 AM Subject: William Sunderland (1) and (2) of Montgo. Co. Ohio > Delmar, > Your information that your gg-grandfather was born in Auglaize is very > interesting. How good is it? I wonder how many different Sunderland > families moved up to Auglaize from Centreville? I am aware only of Peter > ("of Fort Amanda) and some of his children. If your Martin was born in > that county I think it strengthens the idea that he is descended from Peter. > How good is your evidence that Martin's parents were Wm and Jan Van > Ausdale? > Regarding the "two" Williams: > > **William (1) Steve Holloway sent me information that William the son of > Peter and Catherine Hollman was b. June 1793 died 2 Jan 1851 bur. Ft. > Amanda. I believe I saw his grave there, but can't find my notes from that > trip right now. There is a notation in the database that he maried an > Elizabeth (surname unknown) in 1810 - but no place listed. If born 1793 > this makes him 17 at marriage- pretty young in those days, but obviously > not impossible. > The children of Peter who were older than William were born in Pa or VA- > during the families slow trek westward- extremely doubtful that he was born > in New Jersey, though that is where Peter and Catherine were married. > Surely if William married Elizabeth in or around 1810 there should be > records in Ohio for that marriage. > There is no evidence of children of this union in my records. > > **William (2) > There is a marriage record in Centerville for William Sundeland and Jane > Van Ausdale, 1 Dec. 1814. My records have him born 12 June 1795 in Ohio > - with Delmar Burge as source of this information. Delmar's recent letter > has him b. in New Jersey - so there is a disrecepancy here. The program I > use has a way to note the source for birth information, but not separately > for birthdate and birthplace, and unless I do this separately I can lose > track of where I received different bits of information, unfortunately. > Death information: my database lists death "abt 11 Oct 185?" in Ohio > while Delmar's information is d 23 Jan 1871, no location. > > Jane's mother was a Mary Sunderland, b. Pa, parentage unknown to me. > though there is a notation that she may be dau. of a Josias Sunderland (and > Prout??). Not to much data on Jane: "b. abt 1793"- no location or death info. > Jane's brother Lucas Van Arsdale, married a Jennifer (Jenkey) > Sunderland, 14 Dec 1814 in Montgomery Co. Ohio ( a busy month for that > family!) This Jennifer apparently a dau. of Thomas S. of Fairfield Co. > Ohio, from a Maryland family (lineage of Matthew 1286) and Rebecca Ijams. > > I have listed only two children of the union of William (2) and Jane Van > Ausdale: > 1. Isabel Sunderland, b. about 1815 Ohio. Source for this information > unknown, but date/place plausible given documented marriage info. > > 2. Martin Sunderland, b. 5 Aril 1830 Auglaize Co. (Delmar's recent > letter), d. 17 May 1909 Bement, Piatt Co, ILL. (Delmar) This is > Delmar's ancestor. > Note the date of birth is unusual but not impossible - 16 years after the > marriage. Did William and Jane have other children in between that are not > recorded yet? > > > A Curious Confluence** > There is a curious confluence of three or four Sunderland families in > Montgomery County at this time: > a) The Peter/William clan, with brother Peter moving to Auglaize Co, and > many of brother William's children helping to found Centerville/Dayton > Ohio. Peter is father of William (1) > b)Mary, wife of Willem Van Arsdalen, and mother of Lucas and Jane Van > Arsdale. > c.Jennifer (Jenkey) S, dau. of Thomas S. and Rebecca Ijams, who marries > Lucas Van Arsdale > d. William (2), who marries Jane Van Arsdale. > > Note that my list has a Jennifer (Jenkey) S as sister to William (I). So > are there two Jennifers as well? Jennifer with Jenkey as a nickname seems > to be common enough in those days. Also, it is possible that more than one > person has looked at the marriage registers and ASSUMED that Jennifer and > William are brother and sister, and put them both in the same list, in two > different families! > > > > > > Delmar's question is: is William (2) really the same person as William (1). > In favor of this hypothesis: > A. Similar birth dates, though some discrepancies about actual year and > place of birth. IF William (2) WAS actually b. NJ, he cannot be son of > Peter (=William (1)) because the family was already in PA by 1793/1795. > Similarly, if the birthplace of W(2) was actually Ohio, he cannot be > because the family didn't reach eastern Ohio until around 1803. > > B. Similarity of brother/sister pair William and Jennifer(Jenkey). But > information about this pairing is suspect I think. > > Against the hypothesis: > 1. Actualy disrepancies in d.o.b.- but this is not very strong negative > evidence. > 2. Report that W(1) was married to an Elizabeth in 1810. But this > information is weak and it is of course possible that Elizabeth died and > W(1) remarried. > 3. The documented marriage of Jane's brother Lucas to a Jennifer > Sunderland, apparently from another family, within two weeks. This could > be a coincidence but also seems plausible that Wm (II) was a > brother/cousin? of this Jennifer, and therefore part of the Thomas > S/Rebecca Ijams family. But there is no other evidence that this is the > case, so this argument is purely conjectural. > > Summary: > There seems likely or firmly evident that > 1) William (1) was born ca. 1793 probably western PA and is buried in Ft. > Amanda Auglaize Co. 2 Jan 1851 (can someone confirm the death date?). > Surely the child of Peter and Catherine Colman. > > 2. William (2) married Jane Van Ausdale 1814. This is documented in the > court records. > > 3. Jane's brother Lucas married a Jennifer (Jenkey) Sunderland also in 1814. > ====== > What we need are independent corroborations of other relationships with > some kind of documents (Bible's, etc). I'm worried that by know much of > this information that is passed around is based on someone's grandmother's > notes (such as much of my own information) that, I have discovered, can be > subject to error! > > > > Note that there is a Jennifer (Jenkey) Sunderland who married a Conrad > Huffman in 1808 in Montgo. County. She was daughter of William, Peter's > brother and uncle of William (I), therefore cousin of William (1). I have > no record of children of Conrad Huffman and this Jenkey; perhaps he died > and she remarried to Lucas? Total Conjecture. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 02:45 PM 6/13/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >I do not know if I am a descendant of Daniel Sunderland of RI. > > > >I am trying to prove that I am a descendant of William Sunderland > >b. 12 Jun 1795 in New Jersey. d 23 Jan 1871 Br. in FT. Amanda, > >Auglaize, Ohio; married Jane Van Ausdal 1 Dec 1814. > > > >They had my GGgrandfather, Martin Sunderland, b.5 Apr 1830, > >Oglaye or Auglaize Co., Ohio; d. 17 May 1909, Bement, Piatt > >Co., Illinois. > > > >Can anyone help me prove my Descendant ??????? > >DLB in Michigan > > > >john rodgers wrote: > > > >> >>>> > >> > >> Reply-To: > >> From: "Carl Flegal" > >> To: > >> Subject: Descendants of Daniel Sunderland of RI > >> Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:54:36 -0700 > >> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > >> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) > >> Importance: Normal > >> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 > >> > >> This genealogy contains the Case family that I have been searching > for nearly 20 years. I am very interested in corresponding with the person > (s) most familiar with John Case (15) and his son Nathan Chase. I would > like the source citations for this family. > >> > >> <<<< > > > > > > > John R. Rodgers, Ph.D. > Department of Immunology > Baylor College of Medicine > Houston, Tx 77030 > jrodgers@bcm.tmc.edu > 713-798-3903 > fax:713-798-3700

Thanks, Barb - this is indeed confusing!!! And it totally discredits what little confirmed facts we have on these families. I'll have to study this for awhile and try to sort it out and get back to all. What list was this on? Sasha

Can I ask what??? Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karol Stanley" <stanlekv@erinet.com> To: <VanArsdale-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 7:15 PM Subject: Re: [VanArsdale-L] Fw: William Sunderland (1) and (2) of Montgo. Co. Ohio > Thanks, Barb - this is indeed confusing!!! And it totally discredits > what little confirmed facts we have on these families. I'll have to > study this for awhile and try to sort it out and get back to all. What > list was this on? > Sasha > > > ==== VanArsdale Mailing List ==== > Search the VanArsdale CLUSTER for VANARSDALE (V562) at ROOTSWEB (links to most VanArsdale data available from Rootsweb) > <http://resources.rootsweb.com/surnames/v/a/VANARSDALE/> >