Posted on: Biographies of Van Arsdale & Related Families Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/FamilyAssoc/VanArsdaleBios?read=106 Surname: VanAusdall ------------------------- I am a Van-my line is Simon,Cornelius,Simon,Cornelius,William,Richard,Cornelius and my grandmother Ferriba VanArsdol(our spelling).Just wondered if you are aware of the two Banta family history books.One is Banta Genealogy written by Theodore M Banta and the other one is Banta Pioneers and Records of the Wives and Allied Families written by Elsa M Banta. There are many marriages between the Van Arsdalen and Banta families in them.I loved the stories written about this family and about Hendrick Banta-he is one of the pioneer men I really admire-and the women -I admire them all! I have both of these books in our local library's gen.room.If I can be of help let me know. Bonnie Barnes Worley

Bryce & Barbara, I agree with those long ago ancestors and researchers knowing of our strides. However, I wish they would help with my line too. Still looking for the parents of my Cornelius C. Vanarsdall b. 1766 in New Jersey. Linda -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Johnson [SMTP:barbJ@prodigy.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 6:59 PM To: VanArsdale-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [VanArsdale-L] Van's and Bantas Bryce, I think those long ago ancestors and researchers know of our strides and are helping to further them. Now, why doesn't my line help me even a little bit? (g) Still looking for parents of John Vanasdal born 1823. Barb, in MS ----- Original Message ----- From: BStevens <BStevens@netstarcomm.net> To: <VanArsdale-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 5:35 PM Subject: Re: [VanArsdale-L] Van's and Bantas > Hello Bonnie, > There is another Banta history you might find worthwhile --- less obvious > because of its title. It is "Our Vertical Van Osdol Lineage from Symon > Jansen Van Arsdalen Through Twelve Generations," by Bessie Van > Osdol-Schneider, Wichita, Kansas, 1979. Her history, too, is filled with > stories and anecdotes about the Bantas as well as the Van Arsdales. > My own Vanosdol (our back-country Indiana spelling) line diverges from > yours right off: I descend through Cornelius' little brother, Jan Simonse. > So from our immigrant Sijmon, thence Jan, Christophel, Ouke, Oakey, Oakey, > David, Charles, and my Grandmother, Audra. No Bantas in that line. > However, I had published my first venture into the family history back in > 1975. Bessie came across it, and we corresponded for many years while she > worked out her line. She was also in contact with Franklyn Frick, James > Banta, June Webb, Edward Vanarsdale and many others of the older generation > (not that I want to be placed there just yet!!) > I don't believe I helped her much except as a cheer-leader, since our > lines were so divergent. But she was kind enough to send me a copy of her > finished study. So much has been learned since then! I wish these > long-gone researchers could have enjoyed the fruits of the on-going labors. > I hope they do know of our strides! > > Cordially, > Bryce Stevens > > > : I am a Van-my line is > Simon,Cornelius,Simon,Cornelius,William,Richard,Cornelius > : and my grandmother Ferriba VanArsdol(our spelling).Just wondered if you > : are aware of the two Banta family history books.One is Banta Genealogy > : written by Theodore M Banta and the other one is Banta Pioneers and > Records > : of the Wives and Allied Families written by Elsa M Banta. There are many > : marriages between the Van Arsdalen and Banta families in them.I loved the > : stories written about this family and about > : Hendrick Banta-he is one of the pioneer men I really admire-and the women > : -I admire them all! I have both of these books in our local library's > gen.room.If > : I can be of help let me know. > > Bonnie Barnes Worley > > > > ==== VanArsdale Mailing List ==== > We can NOT attach files to our mailing list e-mail. > Anyone wanting to share a copy of an original document may send that copy to <brianter@macatawa.org> > for the "Documents" page <http://www.macatawa.org/~brianter/vanarsdaledocuments.htm>. > ==== VanArsdale Mailing List ==== We can NOT attach files to our mailing list e-mail. Anyone wanting to share a copy of an original document may send that copy to <brianter@macatawa.org> for the "Documents" page <http://www.macatawa.org/~brianter/vanarsdaledocuments.htm>.

Posted on: VanArsdale Queries Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/FamilyAssoc/VanArsdale?read=37 Surname: manley ------------------------- looking for ancestors of Charles E Manley, brother Rollo, and sister Grace manley Koosier/originally from Illinois /foster children/ wonder if they might have been on orphan trains? Charles Manley was born 1902/died 1955 in Winfield, Ks

Posted on: VanArsdale Queries Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/FamilyAssoc/VanArsdale?read=36 Surname: Simone, Simoni ------------------------- Looking for Stephen Ernest Dwight Van Arsdale whom I believe was my grandfather's nephew. His mother was Florence Simone, my grandfather's sister. Thanks for any help you may be able to give. Sue

Hi, If anyone can help this fellow researcher, please send a response to her at <dwest@adsnet.com> with a copy to this list at <VanArsdale-L@rootsweb.com>. Thanks, Terri Rene -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Ludlow/Van Arsdall Connection Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 12:36:04 -0500 From: "dwest" <dwest@adsnet.com> To: <brianter@macatawa.org> Thank you for your website. Viewed at http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/FamilyAssoc/VanArsdaleBios?read=1 3 I believe my great grandfather married Cora B. Van Arsdall and they resided in Benton Harbor, Michigan. Our family is in the process of doing a genealogy search for the Ludlow side of the family. My grandmother, on my mother's side of the family was Kate Ludlow(died 1918) and her father Talma Ludlow who married Cora B. Van Arsdall. I am presently tracing the cemeteries with in the St. Joseph/ Benton Harbor, Michigan area to locate their graves. But I believe they might be buried in the Riverview Cemetery off of Niles Avenue, in that area. I think I have seen several of the Van Arsdall tombstones, while paying respects to another side of the family up there. Also the Berrien County, Michigan Directory, 1892, shows a Talma S. Ludlow as a fruit shipper. I think Orrin and Linneus were his brothers. If you have any further information about the Ludlow's I am hoping you will perhaps share it with me. Thank you so much. I will also let you know what and if I find out anything further on this matter. Best Regards, Deanna Branson West

My gereral index of marriages for Vanarsdall's in Mercer Co., KY has the following listing: Charles B. Vanarsdall m. Nora Settle-Book 14, P. 140, 1888. The 1900 Kentucky census of Harrodsburg or Louisville should be very revealing. Sorry, I do not have this record. Mark Alan Thomas Los Angeles, California Although there were several spellings of the surname in Mercer Co., KY, most records are filed under the most common spelling of Vanarsdall. -----Original Message----- From: Brian & Terri Rene (DaVar) Howard <brianter@macatawa.org> To: VanArsdale-L@rootsweb.com <VanArsdale-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Saturday, May 20, 2000 8:19 AM Subject: [VanArsdale-L] [Fwd: [KYMERCER] VANARSDELL or VANARSDALL in Mercer Co.] >TO REPLY post your answer to ><http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Ky/Mercer?read=2150>. > > >Posted on: Mercer Co. Ky Query Forum >Board URL: >http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Ky/Mercer?read=2150 > >Surname: VANARSDELL, VANARSDALL, GOODLET >------------------------- > >I am looking for info on the VANARSDELL (or other variation) >family from >Mercer Co. My husband's ggrandfather was Charles VANARSDELL >(????-1941) who >md. Nora SETTLE (????-1958) and had at least four children: >Bessie, Mabel, >William, and Robert. Bessie, my husband's grandmother, was >born 1895 in >Harrodsburg, grew up in Louisville, md. Carl GOODLET and died >1994. That's >about all the info I have on this family. Anything sound >familiar? Any >info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Amy >millertyme5@yahoo.com > > >==== VanArsdale Mailing List ==== >The Van Arsdale Mailing List can be searched by anyone interested in doing so: ><http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?surname=VanArsdale-L> >An alternate means of searching the Mailing lists can be found at: ><http://searches.rootsweb.com/roots-l.html> >A third place to search the Mailing Lists for Van Arsdale information is: ><http://archiver.rootsweb.com/> a Threaded Archive - you will need to Sign-up for access (free) >If you have already Signed-up, you can go directly to ><http://archiver.rootsweb.com/VANARSDALE-L/> >ROOTSWEB's interactive search engine for Mailing Lists ><http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl> >Please DO use ALL of these search engines, as they will each have different results for you. >

> I was wondering if anyone could help me check what I think may be errors in > my gedcom? Perhaps you could post the information you have (citing sources) one generation or family group at a time ... Anyone finding errors could point them out for you. I have done this a few times with much success (this is a helpful group of people). Terri Rene

JUST PASSING THIS ALONG IN CASE SOMEONE IS INTERESTED ... -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [KYMERCER] VANARSDELL or VANARSDALL in Mercer Co. Resent-Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:43:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-From: KYMERCER-L@rootsweb.com Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 11:43:19 EDT From: Scttfoster@aol.com To: KYMERCER-L@rootsweb.com Amy --- While this may not help you identify your Vanarsdell/Vanarsdall of 1800s Mercer Co., I can tell you the Vanarsdalls were among the first settlers of Mercer Co. in the late-1700s/early-1800s, as evidenced by the marriage of Jennetje (Jenny) Vanarsdall, daughter of Lucas and Jennetje (Cozine) Vanarsdall to Jesse Corn, son of Solomon and Anne Corn, on Mar. 24, 1808, in Mercer Co. I don't, unfortunately, have any further Vanarsdall information which might be of help. --- Scott Foster

TO REPLY post your answer to <http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Ky/Mercer?read=2150>. Posted on: Mercer Co. Ky Query Forum Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Ky/Mercer?read=2150 Surname: VANARSDELL, VANARSDALL, GOODLET ------------------------- I am looking for info on the VANARSDELL (or other variation) family from Mercer Co. My husband's ggrandfather was Charles VANARSDELL (????-1941) who md. Nora SETTLE (????-1958) and had at least four children: Bessie, Mabel, William, and Robert. Bessie, my husband's grandmother, was born 1895 in Harrodsburg, grew up in Louisville, md. Carl GOODLET and died 1994. That's about all the info I have on this family. Anything sound familiar? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Amy millertyme5@yahoo.com

I was wondering if anyone could help me check what I think may be errors in my gedcom? Helen -----Original Message----- From: Brian & Terri Rene (DaVar) Howard <> To: VanArsdale-L@rootsweb.com <VanArsdale-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Thursday, May 18, 2000 7:47 AM Subject: [VanArsdale-L] Joseph M. Van Arsdale --- did YOU create a gedcom about his descendants ??? >Hello, > >Someone sent to me a gedcom with the descendants of Joseph M. >Van Arsdale ... this would have been more than a year ago. One >of the related surnames is KUHL, he married a Harriett Mae Van >Arsdale. > >I realized when replying to a query that I did not cite the >person who sent this gedcom to me as the SOURCE. I apologize >for this and would appreciate the submitter contacting me to >correct this error. > >Someone has done mountains of work on this gedcom, and I very >much want to be able to cite that person as the source (give >credit where credit is due...). > >Please contact me if this was your gedcom or you know who the >original "author" was/is. > >Terri Rene DaVar-Howard > > >==== VanArsdale Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from this list, send an e-mail message to: ><VanArsdale-l-request@rootsweb.com> >In the subject line & body include only one word: >>> unsubscribe >(Turn OFF your signature file when sending this command) >

Hello, Someone sent to me a gedcom with the descendants of Joseph M. Van Arsdale ... this would have been more than a year ago. One of the related surnames is KUHL, he married a Harriett Mae Van Arsdale. I realized when replying to a query that I did not cite the person who sent this gedcom to me as the SOURCE. I apologize for this and would appreciate the submitter contacting me to correct this error. Someone has done mountains of work on this gedcom, and I very much want to be able to cite that person as the source (give credit where credit is due...). Please contact me if this was your gedcom or you know who the original "author" was/is. Terri Rene DaVar-Howard

Barb - no, I don't think I've run across a John - however, I believe I've read the story, too. Cornelius' father was John. It would stand to reason that they would have named a son John, because the name was carried down in this family, but none has surfaced. But maybe, as you say, he did go back and get supplies, and because of this, he isn't mentioned in anything. I know how frustrating it is - I've got a few of those. Sorry I didn't get back to you before now - we've been zapped repeatedly at work by the Love Letter virus, and I've been working extra and haven't had the computer turned on lately. Sasha

Sasha, I've researched that Preble Co. branch, too, and in one book I read that Cornelius came there first, and a brother named John came a little later and then went back to get supplies for Cornelius to sell at his trading post, but that he didn't stay in Preble Co. after bringing those supplies. I've not read any more about that brother and wonder if it is my John. Do you know about a brother of Cornelius named John? ----- Original Message ----- From: Karol Stanley <stanlekv@erinet.com> To: <VanArsdale-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [VanArsdale-L] Re: Van Arsdale > I THOUGHT I remembered your John as having been born later - this Preble > Co. family is pretty well documented, and as I say - I know this family, > because a cousin is a Van Arsdall descended from this Preble Co. family, > and his wife lives just about 1/4 mile from me. We have compared notes > many times and because it's her husband's Vans, we've been able to > document the family down to the present generations. > Some day you'll find the answer - I also have a relative I've searched > and searched for and just can't tie him in. > Sasha > > > ==== VanArsdale Mailing List ==== > Search the VanArsdale CLUSTER for VANARSDALE (V562) at ROOTSWEB (links to most VanArsdale data available from Rootsweb) > <http://resources.rootsweb.com/surnames/v/a/VANARSDALE/> >

I THOUGHT I remembered your John as having been born later - this Preble Co. family is pretty well documented, and as I say - I know this family, because a cousin is a Van Arsdall descended from this Preble Co. family, and his wife lives just about 1/4 mile from me. We have compared notes many times and because it's her husband's Vans, we've been able to document the family down to the present generations. Some day you'll find the answer - I also have a relative I've searched and searched for and just can't tie him in. Sasha

Sasha, No, that doesn't really fit into the time frame.....I don't think. My John, the elder, was born in 1823 and his daughter Lucinda was born in 1855. Census says he was born in PA, but it could have been what is now WV because those lines wavered for a while. If you see how they can fit, I sure would like to have you tell me how. I feel there must be a connection, because of the given names and tradition, but I just can't find it. I can find no paper trail on John, born 1823, after he went to OH other than the census, and he is mentioned in a legal paper where he and his wife, Deborah Jordan, sued her father's estate in 1859. I can't even decide if she's his first or second wife. Lots of complications regarding that in his son John Isaac's paper trail. I've been to Licking Co. and researched, but found nothing about John, only a record of his oldest son when he and his wife inherited property from her father, and luckily it was after the courthouse burned down, so those records didn't burn. I've been the gen. library there and researched with a lot of help through all the old church records and newspaper records, but didn't get to the public library. I don't think John, the elder, ever owned property until he got to IN, a little before 1900, and I'm not even sure he owned any there. I know he either owned property or loaned money for property to his son, John Isaac, but the deed records in IN are really a mess and I haven't figured out yet if John the elder ever lived on property he owned. I just know that his wife forgave the loan on property to John Isaac's wife when John Isaac was killed in an accident. There was no will, and the probate records were given to my ggm, who died in 1928. She had some money to leave to her two sons, so she must have done a lot with the little money she got out of the sale of that land. I know who bought it from her, but can't find out the previous owner's name to see if it belonged to John, the elder. I tried to trace the land, but the deed is all messed up and I can't make head or tails of it. I don't know if that land had a house on it or not. I couldn't get a soul to help me in the Vigo Co. courthouse, no matter how hard I pleaded. They were more interested in sitting and eating and gossiping than helping me, so I finally gave up. All I asked for was a little direction to where I could find more complete records, and I was totally ignored. So then I went to the county engineers office to see what maps I could find that fit the description of the land and a young kid was there who didn't know beans about the maps and where they were located and finally gave me some papers that didn't pertain to what I was looking for at all. That sure was a wasted day. Their library is a great place to do research, but they don't have those records that I needed from the courthouse. ANYBODY, please help us straighten out this line, all the way, so I can rule it in or out of my research. There was also a William Vanasdal, who spelled his name the same, in Licking Co., but I have been unable to learn anything about him other than that he lived there. I've tried to get his death record, but have been unable to get it. He died in either 1900 or 1905 (have records in books showing both of those dates). There may have been two Williams, or there may have been only one and the records have not been transcribed properly. One William died in the county infirmary, according to the records I have found in books. If I could just learn who the father of John, born in 1823, I think I could go sailing with all of the Van data I have collected, but I can't find his parents anywhere, nor can I find his death record even though I know he died after 1901 and was in Vigo Co., IN in 1900. I have decided, after much searching of cemetery records in Vigo Co. and the surrounding counties, that he left that area after 1900, when he was 77. Maybe somebody knows where he and his wife went? I know some of you have read this family history several times, but maybe somebody new to the list or somebody who has collected more info since my last posting, can make the puzzle fit. Barb

Barb - I know this Van family and I have most of the records. This Lucinda had a brother, John, b. 1814. Does that fit into your John timeframe? Lucinda and John also had a grandfather, John, born in the 1750s in Va/WVa. Sasha

Donna, I Just looked at your note posted by Brian and Terre Rene and it has me somewhat excited. My John Vanasdal had a daughter named Caroline and one named Lucinda, which could have been after the name Lucien (I grasp at all straws). However, since your Rachel died in 1843, that puts a damper on things because the Rachel I found in the 1850 census was still alive. My John Vanasdal named his second son John Isaac, but his first son is a real puzzle. the first time I find him he's named Cozine, then Conidine, and is burried with the name Corridine. That just doesn't fit with the naming patterns. The Cozine and Conidine could, again, be the fault of the census taker, but the other records I have found do have Corridine. That could be a version of Cornelius, but I don't think people back then fractured up the names like we do now. Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian & Terri Rene (DaVar) Howard <brianter@macatawa.org> To: <VanArsdale-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 10:21 AM Subject: [VanArsdale-L] Re: Van Arsdale > (forwarded to the <VanArsdale-l@Rootsweb.com> Mailing List) > > cdchumphrey wrote: > > > Hello, I am researching my family history of the Van Ausdall's side. I have > > been in touch with Chris Baker who invited me to look at your family > > history. I was amazed at the information compiled. I by chance looked at > > the information on the Rev. Banta. At the bottom of the page it indicates > > that you are maintaining the records of the Van Arsdales. I have several of > > the Van Ausdall's from Kentucky and Ohio in my history. I am particularly > > interested in Peter Van Ausdall who married Rachel Banta. Peter was born > > about 1776 in Martinsburg, Berksley, West Virginia and married Rachel Banta > > (daughter of Albert Banta and Styntie Monfort) Rachel was born about 1780 > > in Kentucky. she died in 1843. Do you have any information on Peter Van > > Ausdall? The names of Peter and Rachels children are: John, Isaac, James, > > Christina, Sarah, Henry, Cornelius, Lucian, Arthur, Charles, Caroline. I > > would like to invite you to my family site so you can see where the > > connections are. I hope to hear from you soon. Thanks, Donna > > > ==== VanArsdale Mailing List ==== > This Van Arsdale genealogy mailing-list is AUTOMATICALLY SET so that your address may have > ONLY FOUR (4) BOUNCES before your address is automatically removed!!! > updated 02 May 1999 >

Donna, I have tried to connect the Banta's with my John, but can't seem to find the link. I have excerpts from the Banta book and have gone over and over everything there, but it hasn't helped me, so far. I keep thinking I'm missing something...and the messed up 1850 census makes matters worse. I think that I should turn my energies to finding the Mikel, or Michael, or whatever spelling there may be who would be the right age, and work back from him, since the Rachel research just isn't working. I also have the concern that perhaps the census taker just messed up when he put no surname with that Mikel and Rachel, yet they seem to live in a different household than John and his wife. Census takers did mess up quite a bit and this one may have put me on the wrong track entirely. Thanks for the reply. I know my John stayed in Licking Co. until at least 1880, before moving to IN. by 1900, so I don't think he went to Iowa, but maybe Rachel and Mikel did. I have just now been able to transfer my Van database from my old computer to my newest one...took me a year because of different formats and the new computer not accepting my old Dos based database, but I finally got it accomplished. I'll look to see if I find anything that may help you. Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna <cdchumphrey@peaklink.com> To: <VanArsdale-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 10:22 AM Subject: [VanArsdale-L] Rachel > Posted on: Biographies of Van Arsdale & Related Families > Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/FamilyAssoc/VanArsdaleBios?read=1 05 > > Surname: Van Ausdall > ------------------------- > > Hello Barbara, my Rachel is Rachel Banta who was born in 1780 in Pennsylvania > and married Peter Van Ausdall. peter was born in 1776 in Virginia. My line > stems from the connection of the Banta's to the Van Ausdall's, back to > the 1600's on Long Island, N.Y. and then back to Holland. You may want > to try and look into the Banta line, since Rachel is a very popular name. > It was as bad as all the Cornelius's in the Van Ausdall line. Trying to > figure them out has been an enormous challenge and I bet you have been > at this allot longer than I have. I found my information in the census > for Preble County, Ohio. There is more info in the Iowa Census for 1850-1860. > So you may want to check that out also. I have had no luck with finding > information on the Virginia Van Ausdall's. If you come across them, let > me know. Thanks, Donna > > > ==== VanArsdale Mailing List ==== > Search the VanArsdale CLUSTER for VANARSDALE (V562) at ROOTSWEB (links to most VanArsdale data available from Rootsweb) > <http://resources.rootsweb.com/surnames/v/a/VANARSDALE/> >

(forwarded to the <VanArsdale-l@Rootsweb.com> Mailing List) cdchumphrey wrote: > Hello, I am researching my family history of the Van Ausdall's side. I have > been in touch with Chris Baker who invited me to look at your family > history. I was amazed at the information compiled. I by chance looked at > the information on the Rev. Banta. At the bottom of the page it indicates > that you are maintaining the records of the Van Arsdales. I have several of > the Van Ausdall's from Kentucky and Ohio in my history. I am particularly > interested in Peter Van Ausdall who married Rachel Banta. Peter was born > about 1776 in Martinsburg, Berksley, West Virginia and married Rachel Banta > (daughter of Albert Banta and Styntie Monfort) Rachel was born about 1780 > in Kentucky. she died in 1843. Do you have any information on Peter Van > Ausdall? The names of Peter and Rachels children are: John, Isaac, James, > Christina, Sarah, Henry, Cornelius, Lucian, Arthur, Charles, Caroline. I > would like to invite you to my family site so you can see where the > connections are. I hope to hear from you soon. Thanks, Donna

Posted on: Biographies of Van Arsdale & Related Families Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/FamilyAssoc/VanArsdaleBios?read=105 Surname: Van Ausdall ------------------------- Hello Barbara, my Rachel is Rachel Banta who was born in 1780 in Pennsylvania and married Peter Van Ausdall. peter was born in 1776 in Virginia. My line stems from the connection of the Banta's to the Van Ausdall's, back to the 1600's on Long Island, N.Y. and then back to Holland. You may want to try and look into the Banta line, since Rachel is a very popular name. It was as bad as all the Cornelius's in the Van Ausdall line. Trying to figure them out has been an enormous challenge and I bet you have been at this allot longer than I have. I found my information in the census for Preble County, Ohio. There is more info in the Iowa Census for 1850-1860. So you may want to check that out also. I have had no luck with finding information on the Virginia Van Ausdall's. If you come across them, let me know. Thanks, Donna