Thanks - it does clear one thing for me if the John who died in 1805 was the John who married Mary Bibb. He did have a wife Mary. There are definite Atkins - Bibb tie-ins too. Also, I mentioned that Robert married Frances Panal and/or Bibb, but I have a Louisa date for Robert with Frances Parrish and I think from what Idonna says, it was Parrish. Oh well. Those Grooms definitely loved being grooms, didn't they? Pat Snyder