In a message dated 1/30/08 11:15:46 PM, tkwhsimms@hovac.com writes: > Did you by chance ever see "The Cymry of  "76: or Welshmen & Their > Descendants" wherein it states that Enoch Francis and Benjamin Francis, father and > son, were also eminent preachers."  (speaking about Baptist ministers who came > to America.)  And further speaking about "Ten ministers of this family > connexion; about eight from Enoch Francis: there were Timothy Thomas, and his > brothers Joshua and Zachariah; and of their descendants, ten or twelve more." > > Is this perhaps why you thought that Wales might be involved?  Since then I > have seen a World Connect file by Kim Browlee that says Thomas's father was > Thomas Francis, emigrated from Wales (no source.)  > > I just received an email from Pam Sarno and she says: >   "The Francis Tree book also lists Thomas and William Enoch's father as > "Thomas Francis of Wales".  But, there is nothing documenting this statement.  > The research we have done makes it seem more likely that their father was John > Francis.  This is from Pikeland Twp, Chester Co, PA tax records.  Do you > have any evidence about who their father was?  The Rev War statements give the > most clues I have found because their birth dates and place are specific.  The > tax rolls for Pikeland show Thomas, John Sr. and John Jr during 1765-1787.  > Enoch or William Enoch is never listed.  But there are nearby names listed > who match names referred to as neighbors in the Rev War statement, so I think > this Thomas, John Sr. and John Jr  are the right Francis family. >   If the Francis were true Scotch-Irish then they were Presbyterians.  Or, > they could have been Welch Baptists.  The Thomas Francis family and > descendents were Baptists at least by the 1830s.  Thomas Francis wife, Mary Huey, was > definitely from a Quaker family in Chester Co." > > Pam also had sent me her transcription of Thomas Francis' Rev War file.  Do > you have that? > I'm sure she would be happy to allow me to send it to you if you dont. > > Woudl there be Quaker records in PA that might tell us more? > > Respectfully, > Tosca > > ps I just got another email from Pam but will wait until tomorrow morning to > send it to you. >   It refers to Quaker records and Leanna Gulick!  Bedtime! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Betty" <brfrain@comcast.net> > To: <valoudou@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 9:49 AM > Subject: Re: [VALOUDOU] Attn: Betty Frain > > > Good morning Tosca, > > Yes, I am still in SC until May 1, and almost all my books and research are > in Maryland. Oh well. > > I want to include two things. First is the following memo from my notes: > In notes from Aunt Nell, she states that Enoch Francis lived at Goose Creek > Bridge, and built the covered bridge where the Dulins used to live. His son > John kept the toll gate house. > > This memo is from my grandmother's sister. They all grew up in Loudoun and > knew members of the Francis family. > > The second is a message I received from Marty this AM and my reply. I hope > she doesn't mind my putting it up.: > > > >   Dear Betty, > >   It was late last night when you and Tosca were writing, but I think a > gremlin crept in.  Do you really think Wm E. Francis, born before 1778, had > a "brother" Thomas born in 1806?  Perhaps a half-brother, with a much > younger mother, but even that is stretching it a bit. > >   Maybe the first son Thomas, b. 1803, died and the second man with the same > name, born 1806, was another son. > >   If this second Thomas really was born in Wales, he is more likely a cousin > of some variety, don't you think? > >   Food for thought, > >   Ms. Marty Hiatt, CG >   Certified Genealogist and CG are proprietary service marks of the Board > for Certification of Genealogists® used by the Board to identify its program > of genealogical competency and evaluation and used under license to the > Board’s associates. > > Actually, both dates are 'say' dates, based on 20 years before their > marriages. If the birth date for Thomas is correct, he was only 39 at the > time of his death. Their is lots of room there for Thomas to be much older > than a dob of 1806 would indicate. I don't have any idea where William Enoch > Francis was born. He could also have been born in Wales. I do not have this > well documented. Some is from my Aunt Nell's (grandmother's sister) notes, > and some is from a Francis descendent. > > > I did goof. Woke up thinking about it this morning. I think I indicated that > Ann and Rebecca, wife of John Dulin did not go west. That should have read > Ann Dulin married to Enoch Francis, and John Dulin married to Rebecca Elgin. > > Thanks for the thought provoking message. I think I will put this on the > Loudoun list with both messages included. > > Betty > I think it is quite possible for Leanna to be Thomas' second wife. I do not > know anything that would make that impossible. I also do not know anything > to prove that. ;-) > > I think I missed two sons of Enoch when I was writing last night, Edward > married Ann Wildman, and Lewis married Elmira Norton. I do not have dob for > them. > > BTW, Ann Dulin is my 3rd great grandaunt. > > I am trying to remember who sent me a lot of the Francis info. When it comes > back to me I will let you know. He is not on line so he won't pipe up here. > > > > Betty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tosca" <tkwhsimms@hovac.com> > To: <valoudou@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 11:35 PM > Subject: Re: [VALOUDOU] Attn: Betty Frain > > > | Hi Betty, > | I need to go to bed as it is 11 pm already, but,  do you happen to know > the > | date of this: > | Loudoun Co Will Index:  Francis, Enoch  Inv- 2C 30;   Acct 2A- 386 & 138, > | and Accts 2D 280   Accts  2C 317. > | I am sorry that I dont even know where I got that info!  Possibly from my > | closest "fellow researcher" who made a list of all sorts of records at the > | Loudoun Courthouse for us. > | > | There have been many postings about Thomas Francis of Chester, PA b 1759 > who > | married Mary Huey 1786, who happened to die in 1823.  It is claimed by > some > | of the researchers that he is the one who died abt Aug 31 1845.  They had > | two daughters Mary Ann (Edward Wilson and at least 4 children-Edward > | Francis, Mary Ellen, Andrew J. and Sarah Virginia) and Elizabeth (John G. > | Myers, dau Elizabeth Frances b Upperville, Loudoun Co, VA 1823.) > | > | Al Fechlia's book  "Francis History of Fauquier, Co, VA"  speaks of Andrew > | Francis, of Maryland? and then Fauquier with sons Alexander (Millicent Ann > | Lovelace) went to MD, Margaret (the only female proven as she is buried > next > | to or in plot of Broad Run Baptist Cemetery, New Baltimore, Fauquier Co, > Va, > | belonging to Andrew Francis, Jr.), Thomas b abt 1765 (Mary ??, of Fauquier > | with a son William Enoch b abt 1782), Joseph (Sibella/Sabitha Holmes, of > | Fauquier), William, Patrick Henry (Sarah Cockrell and lots of children to > | WV), Henry (Rebecca) of Fauquier, and Andrew, Jr (Elizabeth Hume, many > | children, of Fauquier.) > | > | I have many references to E. and Enoch Francis in Fauquier Minute Books. > | One reference says E. Francis (Loudoun) > | I have only one Enoch Francis census record: > | 1820 VA LOUDOUN NO TWP LISTED  Series: M33  Roll: 137  P 143 > | Francis, Enoch     1M -10  2M 10-16  1M 16-18  2M 16-26  1M 45+   2F -10 > 1F > | 26-45    0 For'n   6 Agri > | > | Needless to say, I am thoroughly confused. > | > | Is it possible that Thomas Francis who was married to Mary Huey remarried > | Leannah Gulick 9 Feb 1826 in Loudoun Co, 3 years after Mary's death?  How > do > | you know 1806 for his dates (1806-1845)?  If he immigrated from Wales, > that > | might lead us to William Enoch also being from Wales? > | > | I've got to go to bed - it is now 11:33.  I would love to stay up most > | evenings working on these puzzles, but need my sleep too! > | > | Any insight you can give me will help.  You are most gracious to have > | replied so quickly.  Are you still in SC, where Pat Duncan said you were? > | If so, have a good time while you are there. > | > | Tosca > | > | > | > | ----- Original Message ----- > | From: "Betty" <brfrain@comcast.net> > | To: <valoudou@rootsweb.com> > | Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 9:21 PM > | Subject: Re: [VALOUDOU] Attn: Betty Frain > | > | > | > Tosca, > | > > | > I just realized, WEF also had a brother Thomas Francis (b.1806-1845) He > | > married Leannah Gulick 9 Feb 1826 in Loudoun Co. His will is in Loudoun. > I > | > have that he immigrated from Wales, but I do not have a date. > | > > | > Betty > | > > | > > | > ----- Original Message ----- > | > From: "Tosca" <tkwhsimms@hovac.com> > | > To: <VALOUDOU-L@rootsweb.com> > | > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 6:37 PM > | > Subject: [VALOUDOU] Attn: Betty Frain > | > > | > > | > | Hi Betty, > | > | > | > | Could you please give me a short lesson? > | > | > | > | You have a (first cousin 4 times removed) William Enoch Francis > married > | > to > | > Ann Dulin. > | > | Could you please let me know his dob and place, his parents names if > you > | > know them, Ann's dob and her parents names? > | > | > | > | I think I have one b 1782 to Thomas and Mary, md to Ann Dulin > | > |    and one b 1766 w/no parents md to Ann Dulin. > | > | > | > | Thank you so very much. > | > | Tosca > | > | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Hi, Tosca, Was interested in your comment about "if the Francis family were Scots-Irish, they were probably Presbyterian..." Hope I did not unwittingly contribute to that conclusion. To clarify, I believe the Johnstons probably were (Presbyterian) when they first immigrated, but if the Francis family was from Wales, it is more likely they were Baptists or who knows? Maybe Quakers. (Some of our family in Waterford, VA, were Quakers, but intermarried and were then "read out" of meeting. Many then became Methodists.) The Francis/Johnston family we are associated with were very involved in the Methodist Camp meetings of their day. I have a wonderful photo of many of this family at one of the "camp meetings," which also appeared in the Loudoun Museum several years ago. It seems they were a family of deep faith, from what I am reading on this list, and probably became involved in the era of the "Great Awakening" initiated by the Wesley brothers during our early American history. Thanks to all contributing to my knowledge of this fascinating family. Patti ************** Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489