Janean Ray wrote on 6/16/2005, 11:35 AM: > There are variations of course but from "In Search of Your British and > > 1st son named after father's father > 2nd son after the mother's father > 3rd son after the father > 4th son after the father's eldest brother > 5th son after the father's second oldest brother or mother's eldest > brother BTW, there are some cases in the Helm family that look like they follow a different pattern; 1st son mother's father 2nd son father's father ... brothers's names ... father's name ... other names and similarly for the girls The pattern resets on remarriage but names don't seem to be repeated (that is slots are skipped). Of course, there are only a few data points, and a great many things muddy this up: infant mortality, uncertainty about birth order, and of course, uncertainty about grandparents' names. There is at least one place where this pattern would help "explain" things, but so far it hasn't led to confirming evidence. If someone sees a pattern like this somewhere else, I'd be very interested in hearing about it!

As always you have the ticket! Thanks and have a nice day. Brenda J Scott -----Original Message----- From: P. Duncan [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 11:34 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [VALOUDOU-L] Theft of painting of Earl of Loudoun Information about Sir John Campbell can be found at: http://ketoctin.8m.com/LordLoudoun.html According to the article, John Campbell, Lord Loudoun, never married, and died in Scotland. Pat Duncan [email protected] Scott, Brenda wrote: >Are the early Campbells located in Loudoun, one a John Campbell and Asa >Campbell one married into the Haines family cir approx late 1700's to >mid 1800's related to this Sir John Campbell? > >Brenda J Scott > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dottie Himes [mailto:[email protected]] >Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 10:37 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [VALOUDOU-L] Theft of painting of Earl of Loudoun > >It is really sad that someone had to steal a picture of history. I sure >hope they find the picture again in >good shape. > >Is this the John Campbell, Duke of Argyll b. abt 1843 who m. Louise >Hanover b. 1848? > >Descendants of John Campbell, Duke of Argyll, Marquis >1 John CAMPBELL, Duke of Argyll, Marquis b: Abt. 1843 Lome >. +Louise Carol HANOVER, 54046-6-5-1112(9-1s)3-1-6 b: 18 Mar 1848 >London, >England, Buckingham Palace, m: 21 Mar 1871 St. George Chapel, at Windsor >Castle, Windsor, England d: 03 Dec 1939 London, England, Kensington >Palace, >Burial: Cremated at Golders Green Crematorium, Ashes buried in the Royal >Burial Ground at Frogmore Father: Albert Augustus Hanover, >Pr-Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Mother: Victoria Hanover, Qn >54046-6-5-1112(9-1s)-3-1 > Thanks > >Dottie Porter Himes > >Dottie Himes >Lewisport, KY 42351 >[email protected] > >I love my Family, Genealogy is Addictive but Fun: SURNAMES: Heim, Himes, >Ahlers, Shroyer, Swadener /Burch, Clements, Hagan, Hutchins, Porter >/Hayden, >Mulligan,Young, and many more. >-------Original Message------- > >From: [email protected] >Date: 05/18/05 14:06:36 >To: [email protected] >Subject: [VALOUDOU-L] Theft of painting of Earl of Loudoun > >The following appeared in the Loudoun Times Mirror today at, along with >a picture of the painting: > >http://www.timescommunity.com/site/tab1 >cfm?newsid=14543823&BRD=2553&PAG=461&dept_id=506035&rfi=6 > >Thief lifts painting off the wall >By Sarah Ingle >05/17/2005 > >Sir John Campbell, the fourth Earl of Loudoun, used to stand watch over >the the meeting room on the lower level of Leesburg's Thomas Balch >Library. But now Loudoun's namesake  last seen wearing a kilt and knee >socks and armed with a sword  is missing and town police are >investigating. > >According to Balch Library Director Alexandra Gressitt, the antique >color print of the Earl was hanging in the library the night of May 11. >Library employees believe the Earl was there as late as Friday evening >but could not swear to it. > >Gressitt said she first noticed that the print was missing Saturday >morning. My heart was in my throat, she said. > >Created in 1755, the year before Loudoun came to the colonies, the >library's print was a copy of a black and white engraving that dates >back to 1749. A local artist donated the print to the library in 1996. >According to Gressitt, the print, surrounded by a black wooden frame, >measures 21.5 inches by 17 inches and is in good condition, featuring >colors that are still brilliant, considering its age. > >Though valued at $5,000, the print's real value lies in its significance >to local history, Gressitt said. > > > >==== VALOUDOU Mailing List ==== >Join the Rootsweb Genealogical Data Cooperative. >Rootsweb members & sponsors are who make this list possible. >http://www.rootsweb.com > > > >==== VALOUDOU Mailing List ==== >The First Sunday in each month will set aside for a "Brick Wall" Roll >Call. Please always put the surname you seek in the subject and tell us >something about your Brick Wall person. > > > >==== VALOUDOU Mailing List ==== >To contact Listowner: >Rena Worthen [email protected] > > > > ==== VALOUDOU Mailing List ==== Join the Rootsweb Genealogical Data Cooperative. Rootsweb members & sponsors are who make this list possible. http://www.rootsweb.com

Just shooting from the hip ... I can't think of a single person from the 17th or 18th century in my families, who has a confirmed middle name. I can't even think of anyone with a hidden middle name eg William P Lastname: no use of initials. For example, in the Helm family espec. in Frederick Co, where there numerous Williams, Thomases, Merediths &c it's very difficult to separate them in the legal system and land records. You'd think that if they had middle names or initials, they would have used them, or the courts would have required it of them. Instead they struggle with Jnr and Snr (whose senior to whom? How many diff't Jnrs can there be &c). In the 19th century middle names are everywhere and we often see people using a middle name, switching the order, or switching back and forth!

Are the early Campbells located in Loudoun, one a John Campbell and Asa Campbell one married into the Haines family cir approx late 1700's to mid 1800's related to this Sir John Campbell? Brenda J Scott -----Original Message----- From: Dottie Himes [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 10:37 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [VALOUDOU-L] Theft of painting of Earl of Loudoun It is really sad that someone had to steal a picture of history. I sure hope they find the picture again in good shape. Is this the John Campbell, Duke of Argyll b. abt 1843 who m. Louise Hanover b. 1848? Descendants of John Campbell, Duke of Argyll, Marquis 1 John CAMPBELL, Duke of Argyll, Marquis b: Abt. 1843 Lome . +Louise Carol HANOVER, 54046-6-5-1112(9-1s)3-1-6 b: 18 Mar 1848 London, England, Buckingham Palace, m: 21 Mar 1871 St. George Chapel, at Windsor Castle, Windsor, England d: 03 Dec 1939 London, England, Kensington Palace, Burial: Cremated at Golders Green Crematorium, Ashes buried in the Royal Burial Ground at Frogmore Father: Albert Augustus Hanover, Pr-Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Mother: Victoria Hanover, Qn 54046-6-5-1112(9-1s)-3-1 Thanks Dottie Porter Himes Dottie Himes Lewisport, KY 42351 [email protected] I love my Family, Genealogy is Addictive but Fun: SURNAMES: Heim, Himes, Ahlers, Shroyer, Swadener /Burch, Clements, Hagan, Hutchins, Porter /Hayden, Mulligan,Young, and many more. -------Original Message------- From: [email protected] Date: 05/18/05 14:06:36 To: [email protected] Subject: [VALOUDOU-L] Theft of painting of Earl of Loudoun The following appeared in the Loudoun Times Mirror today at, along with a picture of the painting: http://www.timescommunity.com/site/tab1 cfm?newsid=14543823&BRD=2553&PAG=461&dept_id=506035&rfi=6 Thief lifts painting off the wall By Sarah Ingle 05/17/2005 Sir John Campbell, the fourth Earl of Loudoun, used to stand watch over the the meeting room on the lower level of Leesburg's Thomas Balch Library. But now Loudoun's namesake  last seen wearing a kilt and knee socks and armed with a sword  is missing and town police are investigating. According to Balch Library Director Alexandra Gressitt, the antique color print of the Earl was hanging in the library the night of May 11. Library employees believe the Earl was there as late as Friday evening but could not swear to it. Gressitt said she first noticed that the print was missing Saturday morning. My heart was in my throat, she said. Created in 1755, the year before Loudoun came to the colonies, the library's print was a copy of a black and white engraving that dates back to 1749. A local artist donated the print to the library in 1996. According to Gressitt, the print, surrounded by a black wooden frame, measures 21.5 inches by 17 inches and is in good condition, featuring colors that are still brilliant, considering its age. Though valued at $5,000, the print's real value lies in its significance to local history, Gressitt said. ==== VALOUDOU Mailing List ==== Join the Rootsweb Genealogical Data Cooperative. Rootsweb members & sponsors are who make this list possible. http://www.rootsweb.com ==== VALOUDOU Mailing List ==== The First Sunday in each month will set aside for a "Brick Wall" Roll Call. Please always put the surname you seek in the subject and tell us something about your Brick Wall person.

Those interested in the more recent controversy over the removal of a ten commandments monument from a courthouse might find this interesting. The following appear in Loudoun Co Order Book 5, page 135, 12 Nov 1811: On the motion of Charles Gullatt ordered that the keeper of the key of the Courthouse do deliver to any minister of the Gospel the said key for the purpose of holding divine Worship therein taking care that the said key be restored in due time. Pat Duncan [email protected]

Information about Sir John Campbell can be found at: http://ketoctin.8m.com/LordLoudoun.html According to the article, John Campbell, Lord Loudoun, never married, and died in Scotland. Pat Duncan [email protected] Scott, Brenda wrote: >Are the early Campbells located in Loudoun, one a John Campbell and Asa >Campbell one married into the Haines family cir approx late 1700's to >mid 1800's related to this Sir John Campbell? > >Brenda J Scott > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dottie Himes [mailto:[email protected]] >Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 10:37 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [VALOUDOU-L] Theft of painting of Earl of Loudoun > >It is really sad that someone had to steal a picture of history. I sure >hope they find the picture again in >good shape. > >Is this the John Campbell, Duke of Argyll b. abt 1843 who m. Louise >Hanover b. 1848? > >Descendants of John Campbell, Duke of Argyll, Marquis >1 John CAMPBELL, Duke of Argyll, Marquis b: Abt. 1843 Lome >. +Louise Carol HANOVER, 54046-6-5-1112(9-1s)3-1-6 b: 18 Mar 1848 >London, >England, Buckingham Palace, m: 21 Mar 1871 St. George Chapel, at Windsor >Castle, Windsor, England d: 03 Dec 1939 London, England, Kensington >Palace, >Burial: Cremated at Golders Green Crematorium, Ashes buried in the Royal >Burial Ground at Frogmore Father: Albert Augustus Hanover, >Pr-Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Mother: Victoria Hanover, Qn >54046-6-5-1112(9-1s)-3-1 > Thanks > >Dottie Porter Himes > >Dottie Himes >Lewisport, KY 42351 >[email protected] > >I love my Family, Genealogy is Addictive but Fun: SURNAMES: Heim, Himes, >Ahlers, Shroyer, Swadener /Burch, Clements, Hagan, Hutchins, Porter >/Hayden, >Mulligan,Young, and many more. >-------Original Message------- > >From: [email protected] >Date: 05/18/05 14:06:36 >To: [email protected] >Subject: [VALOUDOU-L] Theft of painting of Earl of Loudoun > >The following appeared in the Loudoun Times Mirror today at, along with >a picture of the painting: > >http://www.timescommunity.com/site/tab1 >cfm?newsid=14543823&BRD=2553&PAG=461&dept_id=506035&rfi=6 > >Thief lifts painting off the wall >By Sarah Ingle >05/17/2005 > >Sir John Campbell, the fourth Earl of Loudoun, used to stand watch over >the the meeting room on the lower level of Leesburg's Thomas Balch >Library. But now Loudoun's namesake  last seen wearing a kilt and knee >socks and armed with a sword  is missing and town police are >investigating. > >According to Balch Library Director Alexandra Gressitt, the antique >color print of the Earl was hanging in the library the night of May 11. >Library employees believe the Earl was there as late as Friday evening >but could not swear to it. > >Gressitt said she first noticed that the print was missing Saturday >morning. My heart was in my throat, she said. > >Created in 1755, the year before Loudoun came to the colonies, the >library's print was a copy of a black and white engraving that dates >back to 1749. A local artist donated the print to the library in 1996. >According to Gressitt, the print, surrounded by a black wooden frame, >measures 21.5 inches by 17 inches and is in good condition, featuring >colors that are still brilliant, considering its age. > >Though valued at $5,000, the print's real value lies in its significance >to local history, Gressitt said. > > > >==== VALOUDOU Mailing List ==== >Join the Rootsweb Genealogical Data Cooperative. >Rootsweb members & sponsors are who make this list possible. >http://www.rootsweb.com > > > >==== VALOUDOU Mailing List ==== >The First Sunday in each month will set aside for a "Brick Wall" Roll >Call. Please always put the surname you seek in the subject and tell us >something about your Brick Wall person. > > > >==== VALOUDOU Mailing List ==== >To contact Listowner: >Rena Worthen [email protected] > > > >

Kay Hoover.. Welcome to the list. Rena Worthen [email protected] Genealogy without documentation is MYTHOLOGY Founder and President Craig - Botetourt Genealogy Club

Dear Listers, I have ancestors, James and Sarah (?) Graham and have some information which leads me to believe they were from Loudon County. They were married c 1760. Are there marriage records that far back in Loudon? Thanks Kay in CA

THIS IS ALL INFO I HAVE , i do not have any more. please do not ask for more or email me nasty emails, nasty emails or postems will be forwarded and reported to your isp and rootsweb . yes i have been getting some. any corrections or additions gladly accepted with proof or sources and will be made online in a month,it takes 5 hours to upload the info online. please email me these direct , do not use postems. thank you dlmfox OUR VA ,D.C,MD,PA,NJ ,TX,GA,NC, NY,GENEALOGIES Entries: 144883 Updated: 2005-06-13 http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=fox2 for main surnames go to http://www.geocities.com/pifox1/index.html

I would be very much interested in the Ross and Furr entries in the Bible Mr. Keen posted about. My husband descends from those families in Loudoun Co. Would you be willing to email me with the entries about them? Thanks, Karen Starkey email: [email protected] or [email protected] VALOUDOU-D-reque[email protected] wrote: >Content-Type: text/plain > >VALOUDOU-D Digest               Volume 05 : Issue 179 > >Today's Topics: >  #1 margaret's email                     [[email protected]] >  #2 Charity Nichols - Thomas, Ross, Ch   [[email protected] (Tom Keen)] >  #3 Re: [VALOUDOU-L] margaret's email    ["P. Duncan" <[email protected]] > >Administrivia: >To unsubscribe from VALOUDOU-D, send a message to > >        [email protected] > >that contains in the body of the message the command > >        unsubscribe > >and no other text.  No subject line is necessary, but if your software >requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > >______________________________ >

Robert .....thanks a bunch for clearing up a nagging question that no one has been able to explain to me until now. I was thinking it had something to do with the different calendars, but could not find a definitive answer. Michael R. Sawyer, CST Outgoing mail is Certified as being Virus free....Using Norton's Internet Security Suite 2005 Researching....SAWYER/HALSTEAD/GRIFFIN/WILKES/HOWELL/LIGHTSEY/ and ABRAMS/POWELL/BLEDSOE/HOLMES/HILL.....

There must be an answer to your date change somewhere in this file I have saved. Good luck. Bob McArtor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Branches & Lil' Twigs" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 3:58 AM Subject: [VALOUDOU-L] 1752 Calendar Changes > Hello Fellow Researchers: > > Information found in the following, may be of help to those who may be > unaware of the 1752 calendar changes. > > Researching your ancestors born prior to 1752 you need to be aware of the > calendar change that took place that year. > > > http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:3odsmf5JB6oJ:www.genfair.com/dates.htm+first+month+calendar+change&hl=en > > http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:sKAykCZqKkoJ:www.genealogybulletin.com/archives/HTML/current17.html+first+month+1752+calendar+change&hl=en > > http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:jiwnKdPcDZ8J:homepages.rootsweb.com/~surnamru/steve/boncalendar.html+first+month+1752+calendar+change&hl=en > > http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:-tZFoDo1droJ:greencis.net/~shart/ages.html+first+month+1752+calendar+change&hl=en > > http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:WNLI3f6o6WAJ:www.illuminatrix.com/andria/quaker.html+first+month+1752+calendar+change&hl=en > > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library/article.aspx?article=2205 > > http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:w4HgFpTJvFoJ:www.crowl.org/Lawrence/time/britgreg.html+1752+calendar+change&hl=en > > http://www.genealogytoday.com/columns/recipes/tip14.html > > http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:wPdXUYNaKZUJ:calendarhome.com/tyc/original.html+first+month+calendar+change&hl=en > > Fran > > > ==== VALOUDOU Mailing List ==== > To contact Listowner: > Rena Worthen [email protected] > Researching JEWEL in Loudoun Co.;FISHER in Fauquier Co.; HATCHER in > Henrico Co. > >

One of the list members and I have been corresponding about a family bible I have that belonged to Charity Nichols (b1774) married to GeorgeThomas, mother of Herod Thomas. Associated family names are Chamblin, Furr, Ross, Keen You can see a few photos of the bible and a bit of the contents. http://www.hillcroftcrescentfarm.com/charitys_bible.htm I thought maybe some of the other folks on the list might be interested. We are considering donating to the Balsh Library. Sounds like a very good place for it to be preserved and enjoyed. Thanks, Tom Keen

I too tied to reply to Margaret's email and it was returned, so here is my message: Margaret: Go to http://www.leesburgva.org/, click on services, click on library, and it will give you the information on the Balch Library which is a wonderful genealogy library with employees who will be very helpful to you. You can contact Mary Fishback there for more information if you need it - [email protected] You can click on "library resources" and/or "online resources" for more information. The cemetery database can be used to look up names to find where people are buried, and the Loudoun Discovered series can be used to find out if someone is listed in their index. You must view the books in the library or buy them (sold at the library or on line) to find out additional informa- tion. There are Holdens living here now, but don't know if they are your family. They live in the Purcellville/Lincoln area. Hope this is of some help to you. Jane Bogle

I don't believe that Margaret is a member of this list, but I may be incorrect. If she is not, she will not see any messages posted here. I sent a reply to Margaret last night at [email protected] instead of [email protected] and so far it has not bounced back nor have I received any reply. I gave her info about Balch Library, email addresses of some paid researchers, and offered to do lookups for her. Pat Duncan [email protected] [email protected] wrote: >I too tied to reply to Margaret's email and it was returned, so >here is my message: > > >Margaret: > >Go to http://www.leesburgva.org/, click on services, click on library, >and it will give you the information on the Balch Library which >is a wonderful genealogy library with employees who will be >very helpful to you. You can contact Mary Fishback there for >more information if you need it - [email protected] > >You can click on "library resources" and/or "online resources" >for more information. The cemetery database can be used to >look up names to find where people are buried, and the Loudoun >Discovered series can be used to find out if someone is listed >in their index. You must view the books in the library or buy >them (sold at the library or on line) to find out additional informa- >tion. > >There are Holdens living here now, but don't know if they are >your family. They live in the Purcellville/Lincoln area. > >Hope this is of some help to you. > >Jane Bogle > > >==== VALOUDOU Mailing List ==== >To contact Listowner: >Rena Worthen [email protected] >Researching JEWEL in Loudoun Co. > > > >

Thank you all for trying to help Margaret. I tried too and the e-mail was rejected. I appreciate the effort. Rena List adm. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. A. Holifield" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 9:40 PM Subject: [VALOUDOU-L] Re: VALOUDOU-D Digest V05 #177 > Hi - I tried responding to Margaret's e-mail address, and it came back > undelivered. > So here's a link to the Thomas Balch Library in Leesburg,VA,Loudoun > County. > http://www.leesburgva.com/services/library/ > > Hope this helps, > Jim Holifield > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:00 PM > Subject: VALOUDOU-D Digest V05 #177 > > > > > ==== VALOUDOU Mailing List ==== > The First Sunday in each month will set aside for a "Brick Wall" Roll > Call. Please always put the surname you seek in the subject and tell us > something about your Brick Wall person. >

Hi - I tried responding to Margaret's e-mail address, and it came back undelivered. So here's a link to the Thomas Balch Library in Leesburg,VA,Loudoun County. http://www.leesburgva.com/services/library/ Hope this helps, Jim Holifield ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:00 PM Subject: VALOUDOU-D Digest V05 #177

Maybe someone can help Margaret. Please reply to [email protected] not to me. Rena List adm. ----- Original Message ----- From: H. W. Hummer To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:26 PM Subject: genealogy research` Hello, I have roots in Loudoun County (HOLDEN and SMOTHERMAN). We are considering a trip there for some research. Can you tell me where we should go. I looked for the address of a genealogical library, but didn't have any luck. If we are unable to come to Loudoun County, can you recommend a genealogist I could hire to do some research for me. Thank you Margaret Hummer [email protected]

The Floyd County Heritage CD "Floyd Tidbits" by Rena Worthen is finished. It is about 1100 pages of information mainly about Floyd County and it contains Births, Deaths, Cemetery, Obits and a Floyd County Census index for 1930. Some Genealogy and more. It is a .PDF file. It is searchable by name or phrase, you can Zoom in , Zoom out ..It will read to you. Barbara has a sample and said "This is COOL" I am not at liberty to put the price here, But I assure you it's worth twice that. What i'm interested in is knowing how many are interested, so know how many I'll need to bring to the Picnic. YOU MUST contact me off list for details. Barbara has been kind enough to let me do this on her lists, so let's not make her upset. Please Refer to "Floyd County Tidbits" in the Subject line to reserve the CD. Mail directly to me at [email protected] Some of you have pre ordered, and the CD will ship on June 25, 2005. I am trying to get a good count so anyone wishing to have a CD can get one the day of the VAFloyd mail list picnic at the Zion Church in Floyd. Rena Worthen [email protected] www.geocities.com/doreatr for ordering details. Genealogy without documentation is MYTHOLOGY Founder and President Craig - Botetourt Genealogy Club

Sorry to ask but what is a Phisher? Is this some kind of genealogy scam? The email was sent to the list with: I am not signing this to avoid adding any additional information to help the Phisher! Thanks for answering. Dottie Himes Lewisport, KY 42351 [email protected] I love my Family, Genealogy is Addictive but Fun: SURNAMES: Heim, Himes, Ahlers, Shroyer, Swadener /Burch, Clements, Hagan, Hutchins, Porter /Hayden, Mulligan,Young, and many more. -------Original Message------- From: [email protected] Date: 06/02/05 13:23:31 To: [email protected] Subject: [VALOUDOU-L] RE: VALOUDOU-D Digest V05 #175 Along with the message I to which I am replying, I received a phishing letter, purporting to come from UPS. Please check with your technical people and see what you can do to prevent this. I am not signing this to avoid adding any additional information to help the Phisher! -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 02:03 To: [email protected] Subject: VALOUDOU-D Digest V05 #175 ==== VALOUDOU Mailing List ==== Have you posted your Loudoun Co. surnames lately? New members are joining our mailing list every day. Be sure to periodically remind us of your Loudoun research interests.