--part1_edccf3d.246c6a27_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whoa! I e-mailed you a "thank-you" message, etc. days ago but the message was returned to me because it "could not deliver to your e-mail address". I looked at the address that I used again and it "appeared" to be correct and then thought that I had recalled that you would only be at that e-mail address for a limited period of time. Thus, the returned e-mail initially made sense, but now I see that your still there so it must have been my mistake on my part to begin with. In any event, I went ahead and "snail-mailed" my e-mail message out to you this morning, so you should get it by Saturday or Monday. However, since you are still, obviously, at this address and my message is still accessible, I've attached said letter to "this" e-mail. In a related matter, however, several pieces of "genealogical evidence" have led me to believe that "our" Fisher line came out of Berks Co., PA (more specifically, the Heidelberg Township) and the following is a list of "potential" church birth registries for "our" John Fisher/Fischer (we are of Germanic descent), who was supposedly born c 1768 in Pennsylvania, per his 1850 Giles Co. census listing. Translation? The jury is still out on the John Fisher profile that you have. Although it may be correct, it "just doesn't sound right" to me at all while, on the other hand, most all of the male and female given names reflected in the foregoing church registry I've reviewed do, indeed, match many of those associated with our Giles Co. Fishers (e.g., Michael, John, George, William, Anna, Mary, Susanna, Catherine, Rosina (Rosie) surname Campbell~two separate generations of our mid-to 1800s Fisher ancestors were given a first or middle name of Campbell, etc.). Also, there are still many Hahn descendants in the Mercer Co., WV area. To be sure, although the ages /birth years given in the church registry don't match up "exactly" with the "presumed" 1768 birth year, many people back then, especially elderly people couldn't recall their exact year of birth without some type of family record (family bible entries, etc.) and if "our" John didn't have access to one, then he could only go by memory, as many had to "on the frontier". In fact, we know that John had no other sibling living in his community or county from 1810 until his death and thus, had no one to turn to for this info. So, if the 1768 birth year is not necessarily accurate, then one of the John Fischer/Fishers listed below could very well be "our" John. At least it appears to be more convincing than that Elizabeth Shupe story that the Carlton Weber (from you records) put together. Admittedly, the 1850 census "did list" a Mary E. (Elizabeth?) as being John's wife, but was her maiden surname actually Shupe? Or something else? Where did he get this info anyway? He never stated its source. And why didn't he even bother to look in the Giles Co. 1850 census, himself, and realize that both John and his wife were born in PA (as the census indicates) , NOT VA. , a basic piece of data. I mean, this really tends to cast further doubt on his research altogether. For the record, however, the Giles Co. 1850 Census listed John as and Mary E.'s as 82 and 78, respectively, as of July 30th, 1850. [Note: I reviewed the actual Giles Census (on microfische) again last week and these ages are indeed what's listed]. John, Mary E. and four others -May/Mary (37), Mafila? (26), Jackson (21) and Jane Webb (10) were in household # 193, family # 183and polled on July 30, 1850. They were living in the 20th or 21st (?) census District and John's property value was estimatd at $2000. Also, Mary E. couldn't read or write, but then again, most wives prior to 1850 couldn't either. It just wasn't a "societal priority" back then. Anyway, here's the aforementioned church registry data: Data from Hohn's/Hahn's Church records, 1745 - 1805, Heidelberg Townhip, Berks Co., PA) 1. Michael Fischer, born June 10, 1763, christened June 19, 1763, son of Peter and Appolonia ____, sponsor -Michael Mueller (Miller) and wife Susanna (According to other entries, "this" Michael's siblings were Rosina, Henry, Elizabeth, Catherine , William and John (See entry # 3 below), all born between 1759 and 1773 2. John Fischer, born Feb 9, 1765, christened Feb 24, 1765, son of Henry Fischer and Christina _____, sponsor-John Giltzinger (According to other entries, "this" John's siblings were Christian (male), Peter, Catherine, Elizabeth, Anna Mary (one entry) , Susanna, Margaret and Phillip, all born between 1763 and1775) 3. John Fischer, (no birth date given), christened on April 25, 1773, s/o Michael Fischer and wife (did not give her name), sponsor -John Bollman (Bowman?Bauman? and wife Barbara (siblings listed in enrty # 1 above) 4. Johann George Fischer, b ?, chr Aug 21, 1774, s/o Michael Fischer and wife (?), sponsor -John George Fischer and wife Mary Catherine Bollman 5. John (middle name?) Fischer, chr Dec 17, 1775 s/o Frederick Fischer and wife ?, sp - John Fischer 6. John (middle name?) Fischer, chr March 31, 1776, s/o Michael Fischer and wife ?, sp - John Bollman and wife Barbara [NOTE: German (Germannic church) tradition, especially in pre-1800 era PA and the upper Valley of VA, was to designate their child's first name after a patron saint (e.g., John; thus you would typically have several brothers with the same "first" name, but called/referred to by their "middle", given name. For example, one family would have sons named John George (Johan George), John Michael, John Peter, John Frederick , etc. but would refer to these children by the underlined (middle) names. There's a good site on the web that goes over this naming tradition but I can't quite recall it's net address~I think it was on one of the Olive Tree sites out of southeastern PA] Lastly, in this same church registry was a listing for, you guessed it, Samuel Fisher, b Oct 28, 1799 (MATCHES CENSUS), christened on Nov 24, 1799, son of John Fisher and wife (name not given), sponsor John Haehn (Hahn) and wife Margaret And, according to the registry (other entries), Samuel's siblings were possibly: 1. Elizabeth Fisher (the church records reflect a surname spelling change by this time), b Dec 1, 1794, chr Oct 2, 1795, d/o John Fischer and wife (not named), sponsors- the parents (which, as I've come to know, that John's wife was apparently named Elizabeth, which also matches the "E" (middle initial) in the Mary E. Fisher -age 78 listing in the Giles Co. 1850 Census. [Note: Germannic/Lutheran, etc. church members, in most all cases, named their newborn infant after one of the sponsors ~after the male sponsor if it was a boy; after the female sponsor if it was a girl. And these church records that I've reviewed tend to bear this thought out, almost to the entry.] 2. Anna Mary Fisher ("another" matching sibling name), b July 2, 1796, chr July 24, 1796, d/o John Fischer and wife, sponsors -Christian Jung and wife Anna Mary 3. Eleonora Fisher, b June 22, 1797, chr July 16, 1797, d/o John Fischer and wife, sponsors -Adam Haehn (Hahn) and wife Mary 4. Catherine Fischer, b July 27, 1797, chr Aug 27, 1797; sponsors -Henry Maternos (?) and Catherine Fisher (probably infant Catherine's Aunt, a sister of John ~which still keeps entries # 1 and 2 above "in the running" for John, although my present guess would be entry # 1) Other potential siblings: - Elizabeth Fisher, b June 2, 1801, chr Aug 16, 1801, d/o John Fisher and wife (different family?),, spon -John Bollman and Elizabeth Fisher (her aunt?) - Elizabeth Fisher, b July 3, 1802, chr July 18, 1802, d/o John Fisher and wife, spon - Michael Fisher and wife Catherine - Mary Margaret Fisher, b Dec 3, 1802, chr Jan 22, 1803, d/o John Fisher and wife, spon - Christian Fisher and wife Mary Margaret -Catherine Fisher, b Sept 12, 1804, chr Sept 23, 1804, d/o John Fisher and wife, spon -Margaret Haehn (Hahn) Well, the last point I'll make is that "our" John Fisher, IF I'm not mistaken, first shows up in Giles Co. records in the 1810 U.S. Census. If this, indeed, reflects the correct time period in which "our" John actually came to Giles Co., then several of the people listed above may very well be the ancestors that many Giles Co. ( Fisher family) researchers are looking for. Although what I've shown above appears pertinent to our research, there were obviously more Fisher families listed in the aforementioned church records. Thanks again for the info, Bob --part1_edccf3d.246c6a27_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; name="FISHER~7.TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline; filename="FISHER~7.TXT" <HTML><FONT SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D10>Subj:=09<B>Fisher/Troutt info you sent</FO= NT><FONT SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D10></B><BR> Date:=0905/09/1999 8:02:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time<BR> From:=09ANC1779<BR> To:[email protected]<BR> </FONT><FONT SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D10><BR> </FONT><FONT SIZE=3D4 PTSIZE=3D11>I just wanted to take a minute and thank = you for the Fisher, Trout, etc. family information that you recently sent by= "snail" mail. My goodness, that wasn't expected but sure was appreciated. Y= ou're much too kind. In any event, I do plan to prepare a few responses and = questions of my own in regard to some of the information that you provided, = although I may not get a chance to (properly) prepare/transmit it before thi= s weekend as I've got a very busy week ahead of me. In the meantime, howeve= r, here's just a few questions/comments/requests that presently come to mind= regarding your information:<BR> <BR> 1. Do you mean to imply that the house that Lora Lee lived in prior to her d= eath (i.e., Clay Troutt's house) still stands? Are you sure? Mom's childhood= recollection of the "location" of the house was not specific enough for us = to find it, she did recall certain aspects of the property (wooden walkway a= cross a small brook/stream in the front yard, etc.). She also thought that w= e we're driving down the right street (Depot Rd, I think, on the way to Camb= ria) when we tried to locate it, but could not seem to find it. If it is, in= deed, still standing, could you possibly give us somewhat explicit direction= s to the house, and possibly a description of the present house's exterior? = If, on the other hand, the house is no longer standing, then the info would = still be appreciated so that we can resolve the location-related issue, at l= east for mom's sake. Whatever.<BR> <BR> 2. I was wondering where you obtained the death dates for James H. Troutt an= d Mike Fisher? We've (apparently) been to the grave sites of both and, sadly= enough, neither one has either a headstone or marker that would yield such = information. So, did your info come from one of their family members? If you= don't know, then that's fine as I was merely trying to notate a source for = this info. <BR> <BR> 3. Speaking of Mike Fisher, we are presently trying to find the exact locati= on in Clover Hollow where Mike Fisher and his first wife, Laura Mahavely Epl= ing (c 1870 - 1908) lived from the time of their 1887 marriage until her dea= th. Interestingly enough, Ernest Epling (c 1905 - c 1992), a very pious man,= co-founder of Maple View Church of Christ and Clover Hollow native was the = only person that mom knew of that could show us exactly where this property = was located. Sadly enough, however, our non-genealogically-inclined minds ba= ck then did not beckon us (her) to take him up on his offer and she, indeed,= regrets that now. So, to get to the point, we're presently trying to obtain= explicit directions to this property OR land deed information (property des= cription, etc.) that would ultimately allow us to find said property. Ernes= t did previously indicate, however, that the former house location/property = was set back quite "a ways" from the road and was overgrown with weeds, etc.= but that he "could still take us directly to the spot". So, if you would ha= ppen to get access to Michael Fisher's land deed/property description on fil= e at the Giles Co. Courthouse (the next time you're there), we'd sure apprec= iate it. Unless, of course, you know an older person alive today that would = have such information. We're also, by the way, looking for the same kind of = info (pre-1826, Giles Co. land deeds) for Joseph, John, Jacob or William Tay= lor that may have lived on either Sinking Creek or in <U>Clover Hollow</U> (= especially). One who might have been neighbors with John Fisher's household = and the father of Elizabeth Taylor (Samuel Fisher m. Elizabeth Taylor c 1826= ).<BR> <BR> 4. To date, I've seen four different birth years associated with Lora Lee Hy= pes (1863, 1865, 1866 and 1868). The first year was derived from comes from = one of the census records, as well as her 1881 marriage license (which I rec= ently received a copy of). The remaining three dates, however, have been giv= en/inferred from various other sources I've picked up over the last couple o= f years (e.g., one other census record, Twila Mae Lugar Grave's book ~I thin= k~ and another private record of some sort. But, again, as with James, Lora = Lee has no headstone or marker at her grave and so we, again, are without th= is usually-reliable reference source. Having said this, would you even know= what sector of the Williams cemetery James H. and Lora Lee Troutt were buri= ed (central part? right-center, left-center, etc)? Did they even bury her ne= xt to James? If so, then, without a headstone marker, how would they have kn= own/recalled where James H. was buried, so that she could be laid to rest be= side him? Or, for that matter, who can even prove that James H, Trout was ev= en buried in Williams Cemetery~who supplied this information? In the "big pi= cture", however, how do you begin to reconcile the fact that Lora Lee was ("= very likely") born at least <U>one to three <I>years </I></U> BEFORE her "p= arents" actual wedding date of Dec. 22/24, 1867! rried. I mean, think about= it, nobody has really seemed to have addressed this issue to date while it = just tends to "blare out" to me. Any thoughts? Did your father or any other = relatives ever (privately) mention anything about her possibly being adopted= , an orphaned niece, a ward of the court, etc.? Something's got to give here= because I would think that a child born a couple of "YEARS" out-of-wedlock = would have created a serious uproar in a small community back then. Although= I don't doubt who "raised her", I do have to question the notion that her b= iological parents were the same couple. Plus, if her "parents" were still te= enagers/young adults and living at home in 1863/64 (Mary E. ~ c 21; William = c 17) , then in whose household did Lora Lee stay during the first couple of= years of her life? I've checked, by the way, and the Craig Co. birth record= s, which <I>begin</I> with 1864 (due to a Yankee Courthouse raid in 1863), d= oes <U>not</U> contain her birth record. And based on the fact that I, prett= y much found all of the other birth records that I was looking for at the ti= me, her mising entry tends to confirm to me that she was indeed born prior t= o 1864. Any thoughts?<BR> <BR> 5. If <U>Nancy Smith </U>was, indeed, the mother of Mike Fisher, then would = you possibly have any 1850 Montgomery Co. Census data that would list her po= tential father? I mean, since they weren't married until 1852, she would sur= ely be included in her parent's household during the time of the 1850 census= , wouldn't you think? Does anyone have copy of this household listing?<BR> <BR> 6.Any thoughts/info on the parents/ancestors of Mary Ann/Anna Davis (wife of= Abraham Hypes)? This also appears to be another line that has not gotten a = lot of attention over the years. Have you even begun to research this line?<= BR> <BR> 7.Just out of curiousity, you mentioned that your father spoke about Mike Fi= sher quite a bit, at least with respect to the other Fisher relatives. Havin= g said this, would you happen to recall what kind of things he did have to s= ay about him? Any stories, anecdotal info, personality descriptions, hobbies= , etc, that you might have on Mike Fisher? Again, I'm just curious.<BR> <BR> 8. And lastly (geez, this is longer than I intended), any copies of photos o= f the Fishers or Troutts, I sure would like a copy, but would in no way "exp= ect" you to "go to any trouble" to do so as you've already been much too kin= d. In fact, I'd like to eventually scan these images into the computer, time= permitting.<BR> <BR> Thanks again for the info and take care,<BR> Bob<BR> </HTML> --part1_edccf3d.246c6a27_boundary--