http://www.bitlaw.com/source/17usc/index.html for the Copyright picture click here ^ This should keep everyone busy for some time. Just another author who loves to be quoted. Rena

If that was in reference to what I said, no that is not a correct interpretation of what I meant. An obvious attempt to avoid a copyright infringement by just switching words around is very transparent and does not protect you from guilt. I'm speaking of public records, not private data. Let's say for instance that I had some fancy-dancy way of creating a table of census data and published that in a book. You should not copy table and all, that would be my creation you are copying. But, the data in the table is public information, therefore belongs to everyone. Every copyright case I've ever read hinged on two things: 1) how much you copied, and 2) what you did with it. So common sense is the most valuable yardstick you can use. That and consideration for others. Edna

So, if I understand this discussion on copyright, if I found data published in a book and I post that data to any list but change the format then that is not copyright infringement. For example: in any book the data could listed as "William Harris, born 1834, married Saluda Doss in Patrick Co., Va." and I post "William Harris married Saluda Doss in Patrick County, Va., he was born in 1834", then what I post is not an infringement of copyright, is that what you are saying? Pat C. Johns in Va.

Please do not take anything I have said or will say to mean that I support the taking of information from others without their permission. I do not. I respect the effort and the time and money that goes in to creating a publication. I'm also very grateful to those who do. People just have a strange idea of what a copyright will protect and what it won't. Where you might run in to trouble is when you're merrily copying public information from a book and the author has mixed public and private information together and you don't know that and end up taking the private information without their permission. You may have stepped over a thin line there. Just be considerate of the work of others, don't take large amounts of their work and whatever you do, give references as to where you got it. Besides that, if you do your research correctly, you will chase down the original (public) records to back up what was printed, therefore you don't need to copy from books. Edna Clack

I have done many look-ups in the past for individuals but in doing so I "always give the author's name and tell them the book is available for purchase". I feel that this is free advertisement for the person who has went to the trouble to gather the info from public records and put into book form for those of us who can't always go to the courthouses to do our research. I also limit the info I give out, telling the individual that there is more but my time is limited, and by doing this they will usually ask where they can purchase the book I know that if I have someone do a look-up for me I ask if the book is available for purchase and by doing this I have over the years acquired a nice little library of my own. As for books on census, many counties have on their archive websites census records available. More and more public records are being made available via the net. I still like to try to get to a courthouse to get copies of documents to back up my research but sometimes it is not always an option. Bev Thomas Surnames in Franklin Co.: JAMES; RADFORD; SMITH; STOVER; MCGHEE; HIXON/HICKSON

In a message dated 8/1/2001 7:08:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jrpalmer@intelos.net writes: > Just a Question here! How does one go about copyrighting information that > is, by law, free to the public for viewing? Public Record to be exact. It > is my understanding that one can go to any local court house and go through > the records (correct me if I misunderstand this issue) so how, by law, does > any one individual copyright such material? > > You cannot copyright public information, period. You can use public > information in a publication and the format you use can be copyrighted > along with the rest of the book. When I say format, I mean the particular > way you present the data can be copyrighted. The data itself can't be > copyrighted. > Edna

My suggestion is to simply revert to snail mail. If anyone has a question ask all parties concerned privately and correspond the old fashioned way. I still can't believe that someone can actually take public records and expect to charge someone for the information, book or not, I wonder how much they paid for the information???? Other than leg work! And if it is History I am interested in I have two very sturdy legs, eyes not so good, two local libraries and a local Historical Society 5 minutes from my home. End of discussion for me! Rhonda Bassett

Just a Question here! How does one go about copyrighting information that is, by law, free to the public for viewing? Public Record to be exact. It is my understanding that one can go to any local court house and go through the records (correct me if I misunderstand this issue) so how, by law, does any one individual copyright such material? Rhonda Bassett ----- Original Message ----- From: <weberc_r@clark.net> To: <VAFRANKL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [VAFRANKL] Copyright > Sending any email to a list is in fact publishing (making public). > Publishing more than a small amount of copyrighted material (fair use) > violates the copyright. That doesn't mean a small amount in each post. > > For those who doubt this, try republishing (on the web or on an email list) > a significant amount of data from Ancestry.com or Broderbund. You can > expect to hear from their lawyers once it's brought to their attention. > > If copyrighted works could be republished at will, where's the incentive for > authors and compilers? To create a book in that enviroment would be to > invite theft of your labors. Of course, burglary will never cease and > copyright infringement will never cease. We have laws to minimize both and > to deal with violators. > > Undoubtedly many well-meaning individuals do not think this through and have > only good intentions. Please think before publishing copyrighted material. > And read the notices that come with your Broderbund CDs. > > > > > ==== VAFRANKL Mailing List ==== > Franklin Co., Va. List Administrator > Barbara Stanley > bobnroa@pipeline.com or > VAFRANKL-admin@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library > >

http://members.aol.com/Sooner55/index2.html http://members.aol.com/Sooner55/index12.html http://members.aol.com/Sooner55/index13.html

I purchased my copy through Amazon.com. However, I understand that Barnes and Noble will order the book if they do not have any in stock. Pat Wood >From: Carlotta_Eland@spartanstores.com >To: VAFRANKL-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [VAFRANKL] book for sale >Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:41:46 -0400 > > >Please send that info to the whole list, as there may be others who are >interested in purchasing this book. If not now, perhaps in future. > >Thank you, >Carlotta > > > > > > Ktrygal1@aol. > com To: VAFRANKL-L@rootsweb.com > cc: > 08/01/2001 Subject: [VAFRANKL] book for >sale > 02:32 PM > > > > > > >I would like to purchase the book: > >"Nothing But Glory- Pickett's Division at Gettysburg" > >If anyone has the information on where I can purchase the book would you >please send the information to me. >Thank you, >Donna Wilkes >2935 Ironridge Road >Rocky Mount, Va. 24151 > > >==== VAFRANKL Mailing List ==== >Franklin Co., Va. List Archives >http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?listname=VAFRANKL > >============================== >Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: >Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. >http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com > > > > > >==== VAFRANKL Mailing List ==== >Franklin Co., Va. List Administrator >Barbara Stanley >bobnroa@pipeline.com or >VAFRANKL-admin@rootsweb.com > >============================== >Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate >your heritage! >http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

>Publishing more than a small amount of copyrighted material (fair use) >violates the copyright. That doesn't mean a small amount in each post. Then everyone providing "Lookup" services thru RootsWeb's county sites is violating copyright laws, right??? Or is answering these requests PRIVATELY okay? Was it the fact that they were posted on the list the violation, because I distinctly remember someone ASKED that he post the responses to the list....was it the list owner? What exactly is the difference in asking Mr. Peters about my ancestors' name or writing to the library and asking THEM? If it contained significant information about my ancestor, I'd certainly consider buying a book.....but if it didn't, I wouldn't. My genealogy funds are not bottomless, as I'm sure they aren't for anyone else, and it's always nice to know BEFORE the purchase.

Sending any email to a list is in fact publishing (making public). Publishing more than a small amount of copyrighted material (fair use) violates the copyright. That doesn't mean a small amount in each post. For those who doubt this, try republishing (on the web or on an email list) a significant amount of data from Ancestry.com or Broderbund. You can expect to hear from their lawyers once it's brought to their attention. If copyrighted works could be republished at will, where's the incentive for authors and compilers? To create a book in that enviroment would be to invite theft of your labors. Of course, burglary will never cease and copyright infringement will never cease. We have laws to minimize both and to deal with violators. Undoubtedly many well-meaning individuals do not think this through and have only good intentions. Please think before publishing copyrighted material. And read the notices that come with your Broderbund CDs.

August 1, 2001 Dear fellow researchers, The post made to this list: RE: COPYRIGHT was only posted by me, my friend requested that I post her opinion. I did this. If you have comments please forward them to Beverly Merritt at beverlym@swva.net on the post made August 1, 2001 at 1:28:34 pm eastern daylight time. AS, I share her opinion, this letter is from Beverly Merritt. I have now received many , many letters, some kind, some cruel, etc.etc.etc. and they are directed at me. I have enough on my own plate in trying to help others myself, trying to do a newsletter that is helpful to others and dealing with the one year anniversary of my son's death. I appreciate everyone's opinion. MY MOTTO: IF everyone works together - so much more can be accomplished. SO, PLEASE FORWARD your responses to Mrs. Merritt, she is very kind, very hard working and probably has helped more folks in finding family than anyone I know- this is her doing this on her own time and $$$$$. She does do books- and only she knows of the hard work and time it takes her. Sincerely, Donna Wilkes ktrygal1@aol.com Franklin County Genealogy Society 2935 Ironridge Road Rocky Mount, Va. 24151

Please send that info to the whole list, as there may be others who are interested in purchasing this book. If not now, perhaps in future. Thank you, Carlotta Ktrygal1@aol. com To: VAFRANKL-L@rootsweb.com cc: 08/01/2001 Subject: [VAFRANKL] book for sale 02:32 PM I would like to purchase the book: "Nothing But Glory- Pickett's Division at Gettysburg" If anyone has the information on where I can purchase the book would you please send the information to me. Thank you, Donna Wilkes 2935 Ironridge Road Rocky Mount, Va. 24151 ==== VAFRANKL Mailing List ==== Franklin Co., Va. List Archives http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?listname=VAFRANKL ============================== Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com

I would like to purchase the book: "Nothing But Glory- Pickett's Division at Gettysburg" If anyone has the information on where I can purchase the book would you please send the information to me. Thank you, Donna Wilkes 2935 Ironridge Road Rocky Mount, Va. 24151

> But such a wholesale misuse of the book bothers me, > I totally disagree. That is not misuse nor is it a violation of any copyright law so long as minor portions are being given out. Unless these people are using your work to make money for themselves, the copyright law isn't a consideration. You're not really suggesting that it's perfectly alright if people copy from it at the library but not ok if someone else looks it up for them at home, are you? I didn't ask for a lookup in that book, but maybe I should have, sounds like a good one. Edna

Cousins & friends: The buck stops here! No more lookups in "Nothing But Glory -- Pickett's Division at Gettysburg!" Except for Russ Turner's Creasy & Turner lookup. I'll get to that ASAP & respond to his request off list. I took time out of my busy day, sometimes working into the wee hours of the morning, to assist people with Franklin County genealogical & historical research. Each time I attributed the information to the authors of said book. Even told a couple of researchers how & where they might obtain the book. I was just sharing information. While I am not an expert on Copyright law, I thought it was appropriate to share the information as long I was not benefiting from it commercially. And I am not and will not! I have a few mentors in this adult game of hide 'n seek we call genealogy. (A couple that are Franklin County researchers.) I've only been addicted to family history for about 2 years. When I started, each mentor, in their own way, taught me two basic rules to follow. The first was to document all information. For genealogy without documentation is mere mythology. The second one was to share your information. The info you share will come back to you tenfold or more. Please forgive my passion and fervor of my beliefs. I was only adhering to rule number 2. Thanks for all the kind words. I hope to hear from you in the future. Sincerely, Mike Peters npeters102@aol.com

Bev, You have made a good point. I personally know one of the authors of "Nothing But Glory: Pickett's Division at Gettysburg" - Kathy Georg Harrison. She works full-time at Gettysburg National Military Park as a senior historian. In her "spare" time, she co-authored this book, which is considered to be one of the two or three best books about Pickett's Charge ever written. When I read the queries, I thought perhaps that an interest in purchasing the book would be the result. I hope so. The statiscal books, such as yours and Kathy's, are invaluable as resources. Whenever I am at a research facility and learn that the information I am seeking is in hard copy form (as opposed to microfilm), I am purely delighted. And if it's available for sale, that's a real bonus! Don't sell just to libraries. There are plenty of us who still want these books in our homes. Pat >This is a controversial subject and I can see it from both sides. Information is to be shared, that has always been my philosophy and I do my best to do that.  But such a wholesale misuse of the book bothers me, especially since I transcribe court records and try to sell them as books. >The hours that go into such work cannot be counted. If I was lucky enough >to find my ancestor's name in a book I would gladly purchase it. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

I recently observed with great interest a feeding-frenzy of lookups on the internet dealing with a book on the "Franklin Fire-Eaters", one of the groups of men from Franklin County who fought in the Civil War.  One person purchased the book and offered to provide free information from that book to anyone who requested it.  I'm sure they meant well and had a great time doing it. This is a controversial subject and I can see it from both sides. Information is to be shared, that has always been my philosophy and I do my best to do that.  But such a wholesale misuse of the book bothers me, especially since I transcribe court records and try to sell them as books. The hours that go into such work cannot be counted.  There is no profit in these books due to the cost of printing, etc.  If anyone ever figured out how much money a person would be paid hourly to do the work you might come up with ten cents an hour, that is no exaggeration.  I have kept the price of my books to a minimum so that more people could use them. If I was lucky enough to find my ancestor's name in a book I would gladly purchase it.  Add to that the fact that the book itself is part of the proof you need for your research.  Remember, without proof, your facts are meaningless.  And it is not the best proof, it is a guide as to what someone else found, it may not even be correct. I am in a peculiar situation right now.  I recently finished two books on the census and sold very few copies.  I am about to finish a book on the birth records and although this should be a very good reference book, I wonder if a few people will purchase it and then "share" with everyone else on the internet.  I don't know the answer.  A very good possibility is that I will sell only to libraries in the future.  That way the information is still available but it won't be given away wholesale.  Not a perfect solution but one I could live with.  Or I could make the price commensurate with the effort and no one would be able to afford them. Please be considerate in the future when "sharing" information.  If you do a lookup and say, yes, your ancestor is there on such and such pages, that is appropriate.  Giving away the information written in the book is not. The copyright allows personal use, this is definitely not personal use. Thank you, Beverly Merritt

Thanks a lot for this "service", Mike. Please check for any TURNER or CREASY names. Thanks again Russ Turner, The Woodlands, Texas