Bill, Did you get my response? I replied at 12:44 pm but have not yet received my reply from the forum server. It is now 5:19. Jack Spangler Ellicott City, MD ===================== Jack, I recieved the link also. I spent time going thru some of it. The picture of the Grub man was interesting. When I was teaching at Floyd there was a young man named Darian Grub, who was a student there. Darian favors this Grub quite a bit. Was this Grub from Floyd? After getting his engineering degree from VT he went to work for Rick Hendricks racing. Two years ago he was the substitute crew chief for Jimmy Johnson when Johnson won the Daytona 500. This year he is the crew chief for Tony Stewart and Stewart is -- Jack Spangler Ellicott City, MD