Tollivers who, through DNA testing, claim that they descend from a Biblical figure named Judah through his son Perez's descendant named Placido Luis Perez, a Spanish explorer. According to history, the concept of a permanent surname had not been introduced or mandated until 1600s in some countries and in 1849 in The Philippines wherein Placido Luis Perez is reported to have settled. People before 1664s had a patronymic name, a toponymic name, a descriptive name, an occu-nymic name. Following the conquest of the Dutch Colony (now New York) by the Duke of York, settlers were mandated to have a permanent surname. Also, under the Napoleonic Code in 1804, Jewish people were mandated to have a permanent surname, so most of them borrowed Christians' surnames or names from ghettoes wherein they lived -- for example a family that lived in a red chicken house called themselves "de Rothschild" (from the red chicken house) in Germany. The following list shows that a permament surname did not exist until after 1664. Patronymic: son of _________: 1. Bastiaen Laurensen (great grandfather) 2. Michiel Bastiaensen (grandfather) 3. Pieter Michielsen (father) 4. Jan Pietersen (son) 5. Laurens Jansen (grandson) #5 When some people like a Laurens Jansen migrated to Pennsylvania or Virginia from the Dutch Colony after 1664, their surname Jansen would be Anglicized to Lawrence Johnson! That is why researchers have a hard time tracing down their ancestors until they locate tax lists, deeds, wills, etc. Toponymic: a person's birthplace: Leonardo da Vinci = Leonard from Vinci (a village in Italy). His father and mother were not natives of Vinci. Jan Op De Dyke = John from the Dike (now Updike) His father was Hendrik Van Nostrand (from the island of the Noordstraandt). His father was Pieter Roosevelt (from the rose field). Descriptive: Hendrik de Groot = Henry the Tall Willem the Silent. Occu-nymic: John the gold smith became John Goldsmith John Borger = John the baker. Therefore, Placido Luis Perez could not have been a descendant of Judah's son Perez as claimed by Tollivers. While it is true through DNA testing that Tollivers and Placido Luis Perez were connected and that Placido was of Jewish Middle East descent, it does not mean that Placido Luis Perez's family had been surnamed Perez for more than 2,000 years since a Jewish Biblical figure Judah's son Perez. Maybe Placido Luis Perez's family got the name "Perez" in the Mediterranean where Romance languages, including Roumanian, Spanish, Portuguese, French, and Italian, were spoken. In the Mediterranean region, "pere" means "father." Pere with an ending of either "s" or "z" means "father's son". "Here is perez!" Perez thereafter. (Do not forget Balzac's famous novel, "Pere Goriot" <g>.) If in doubt, I encourge you to consult several scholars in Jewish studies. Regards, JeanBout@Juno.Com JeanBout@Juno.Com Poor is the pupil who does not surpass his master. - Leonardo da Vinci ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!