In a message dated 12/2/2004 2:25:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, BobKamman@aol.com writes: Our ancestors probably were not planting trees in order to take their favorite fruit every day to school, as a gift for the teacher. Rather, the fruit was just as useful as grain in producing an alcoholic beverage. Cider is still a significant seller in the fall. However, it now has to be pasturized, which was not the case in the past. My father loved "sharp" cider (that which tickled the tongue but did not have a large alcohol content). We had a hand crank grinder and press, the farm hands would make 30 to 40 gallons, which would be put in the stone meat house where it would not "harden" (ferment) for months. The hands liked to clean out the barrel in the spring because all that was left had a high alcohol level. Dad would draw off a gallon, bring it into the house to a warm room. When it was to his taste, he put it in our unheated hall with glasses so all could have some whenever they wished. As a youngster, I made myself sick eating black walnut kernels, which I had gathered and cracked, and drinking cider. I miss those days during the depression when pleasures were homemade. Bill Stribling