Posted on: Caroline Co. Va Query Forum Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Va/Caroline?read=1302 Surname: WYATT, SCOTT, COLEMAN, WORTHAM, NEW, CHILES, ANDERSON, PAMPLIN, LEAK ------------------------- re: Caroline County, Virginia I note your interest in DeJarnette. Would be happy to compare notes. Other Virginia surnames of interest posted above. cld

Posted on: Caroline Co. Va Query Forum Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Va/Caroline?read=1300 Surname: PENN, PAYNE, PAINE ------------------------- George Penn, husband of Ann __?__, is nowhere in the direct line of John Penn, "The Signer" of the DOI. He is his uncle. John Penn, Sr., who died in Caroline Co., VA in 1741 probably married Elizabeth Madison, daughter of John Madison, Jr., (circa 1655-circa 1720), and he was the father of four known children: John Penn, Jr., George Penn (who married Ann), Joseph Penn (my ancestor), and Moses Penn (father of "The Signer"). I have primary sources which prove the existence of an Elizabeth Penn, an adult in 1723, who was in King & Queen Co. or Spotsylvania Co., VA who was a Godparent to two of Ambrose Madison's children born in the 1720s (bible record), and I have the reference of the Will of this John Penn, Sr., which was proved in Caroline Co., VA in 1741 by Elizabeth Penn and Moses Penn (who I assume to have been his wife and son). I admit that this evidence is not conclusive, but it rises to the level of probability to me. It may very well be that a George Penn who was a headright (along with a Mary Pendleton) of John Pigg and Frances Crane who on 5 Oct. 1679 received a land patent of 800 acres in New Kent Co., VA, adjacent to William Hurk (Hurt?), William Horne, Anthony Arnold, Henry Pigg's Mill Path, Mill Creek Swamp and JOHN MADISON'S Spring Branch (Patent Book 7, page 113). "Cavaliers and Pioneers", by Nugent, reports the headright to this Patent as George Denn, but viewing the digital image of the patent itself at the Virginia State Library website looks like "Penn" to me. This is an educated guess which is a strong possibility to me because of the Pendleton and Madison connection, but not yet a probability in my mind. This George Penn is definitely not the person who married Ann __?__ and had the documented children who began to be born in the 1730s. I have not included the evidence to prove the four children of John Penn, Sr., because it is off the topic and would take too much space. The above is part of the primary source proof that Moses, father of "The Signer", was his son. I too have wondered whether the names Pain, Payne, Paine could have been clerk's hearing or writing error. I have searched all Pain, Payne and Paine reference I could find in VA and I have not found even one instance where Pain, Payne or Paine was used when referring to a Penn ancestor. I have found that Payne and Paine were used interchangeably for the same person.

Posted on: Caroline Co. Va Query Forum Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Va/Caroline?read=1293 Surname: ------------------------- I must have worded my last message wrong. I said George Penn grandson was the signer. His son Moses was John father. I will send for a copy of the marriege Record of George and Ann in Kings and Queen co. Va. I would like to know for sure myself. I know there is lots of wrong information on the internet. On the Harrison I send for and got records but so far no other line. On Roots web they have Payne as a name change from Penn and Paine from Payne what do you have on this? On the middle name my great grand father first name was Madison so you may be right on that.

Posted on: Caroline Co. Va Query Forum Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Va/Caroline?read=1292 Surname: Penn ------------------------- Correction. Moses Penn's wife was Catherine Taylor, not Cathernine Pendleton, daughter of John Penn and Catherine Pendleton.

Posted on: Caroline Co. Va Query Forum Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Va/Caroline?read=1291 Surname: Penn ------------------------- Correction. Moses Penn's wife was Catherine Taylor, not Catherine Pendleton, daughter of John Taylor and Catherine Pendleton.

Posted on: Caroline Co. Va Query Forum Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Va/Caroline?read=1290 Surname: PENN, FLEMING ------------------------- I do not consider myself an expert on Fleming. I do consider myself an expert on the Penns of VA in the 17th and 18th century. There is conclusive and indisputable primary source proof (bible record) that John Penn, the Signer of the Declaration of Independence, was the son of Moses Penn and Catherine Pendleton, born May 6, 1740. What primary source proof is there Ann FLEMING married George Penn? Other 20th century allegations are not primary sources. In the late 1970s there was a Penn publication called "Penn Pals" which I subscribed to and this is the first place where I read that Ann's last name was "Fleming?" This was a matter of controversy then. Gabriel Penn was born July 17, 1741. Middle names were not in common usage then. What primary source proof is there that his middle name was Fleming? If this can be documented by primary source evidence then I would concede that there is a possibility that Ann could be a Fleming. If a middle name was used in honor for a mother's father, usually the first name of the child is the same as the mother's father's first name too. That is to say, that one would expect that Ann's father would be Gabriel Fleming, rather than William or Charles Fleming. I simply find no other evidence associating the Fleming name to the Penn name in the first half of the 18th century (or before). All of this has caused me to doubt the Fleming allegation for Ann's last name. Then when one adds the fact that an Ann Fleming married a Josias Payne, one sees a reason why somebody ,who substituted wishful thinking for good genealogical research, may have said that "Josias Payne" must be referring to "George Penn", blaming some clerk for a screw up in the spelling. I am not saying that Ann, wife of George Penn is not Ann Fleming. I will not accept anybody's assertion that she is a Fleming unless there is (are) a primary source(s) which increase what I believe is wild guessing into the catagory of a probability. Mr. Harrison's assertions concerning Ann Fleming would be entitled to greater weight if he did not also assert that John Penn, son of George Penn, was the Signer of the Declaration of Independence. George Penn did not have a son John to my knowledge and if he did, he was not the Signer of the Declaration of Independence.

Posted on: Caroline Co. Va Query Forum Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Va/Caroline?read=1289 Surname: PENN, FLEMING ------------------------- I do not consider myself an expert on Fleming. I do consider myself an expert on the Penns of VA in the 17th and 18th century. There is conclusive and indisputable primary source proof (bible record) that John Penn, the Signer of the Declaration of Independence, was the son of Moses Penn and Catherine Pendleton, born May 6, 1740. What primary source proof is there Ann FLEMING married George Penn. Other recent people's allegations are not primary sources. In the late 1970s there was a Penn publication called "Penn Pals" which I subscribed to and this if the first place where I read that Ann's last name was "Fleming?" This was a matter of controversy then. Gabriel Penn was born July 17, 1741. Middle names were not in common usage then. What primary source proof is there that his middle name was Fleming?

Hi Folks, Webtv cannot use CD's so I must ask for a lookup from someone who has the War of 1812 Muster Rolls CD. I'm looking for a Thomas R. Jones and a Stanfield Jones. Thank you very much. Frank Pyle

Posted on: Caroline Co. Va Query Forum Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Va/Caroline?read=1288 Surname: ------------------------- I check more on Ann Fleming,I found the Ann married to Josiah Payne was born 1705 to Charles Fleming. The Ann Fleming married to George Penn was born 1706 to William Fleming. If you want to check this out look in Virginia marriages of King and Oueen co. date 1722. Also one of there sons Gabriel middle name is Fleming. There son George 2nd wife was Elizabeth Douglas. I also see where Josiah and Ann daughter married a Madison and there daughter was Dolly Madison. The Penn where also married into the Madison family. My middle name is Madison,my 4th great grandfather James Harrison married Mary Penn and the the Madison name came down though the family. I also see where a Fleming married a Clutterbuck a name on my mothers side. Also my Ann was born in Caroline co in 1706 so you can also check this out. Its in Roots web, Ancester.com,Family search. Also George Penn and Ann Fleming Grandson John Penn was one of the signer of the Decalaration of Independence. I also think William is Charles brother so the Ann would be 1st cousin.

Posted on: Caroline Co. Va Query Forum Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Va/Caroline?read=1287 Surname: Chinault, Selph ------------------------- Looking inf. on Samual B. Chinault's Fatherand Mother Anniel. Selph's Mother was Serena Dell Chenaultand Father was Walter D. Selph. Need inf on Walter Thanks

Posted on: Caroline Co. Va Query Forum Board URL: http://genconnect.rootsweb.com/genbbs.cgi/USA/Va/Caroline?read=1286 Surname: FARMER' ------------------------- Ralph Farmer, Jr. born about 1785 married Susannah Jones. They had the following children that I am aware of: Nicodemus born 1812 Goochland Co, Va. married to Lucy Ann Greenstreet. Nicodemus died in 1864. I also show a Hilton Farmer 1824, and Rebecca Farmer 1830. Nicodemus had the following children, Mary E., William, Ann E., C.K., Lucy B., Henry Newton born 1848-49 and Thomas Dillard 1855.Thomas married a Martha Jane (Brown) Childress. Martha's parents were Andrew Childress and Elizabeth Powers. Thomas and Martha had Walter Lee, Calvin, Joe, Edward. Any help finding additional info on these families is greatly appreciated. These families show up in census in Caroline Co., Goochland Co., and Spotsylvania. Thank You, Bonny

Posted on: Caroline Co. Va Query Forum Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Va/Caroline?read=1285 Surname: Penn, Fleming ------------------------- I also just realized that Ann married to George Penn of Caroline Co. was not the Ann Fleming daughter of Charles Fleming.Hope we can find the answer soon. Keep up the good work.

Posted on: Caroline Co. Va Query Forum Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Va/Caroline?read=1284 Surname: Penn, Payne ------------------------- Actually, I have no evidence that the Penn and the Payne families were close at all. I have searched the Payne family to try and find some connection to Penn (perhaps even a Clerk's error in misspelling) and I have not been able to find even one instance of confusion. Also, I cannot recall finding any significant association between the two families. Except for the unproven allegation that George Penn married Ann Fleming (which I dispute), I can find no other association between the Penn family and the Fleming family.

On the cover of *The Caroline Progress* newspaper for Mar. 29, 2000 is this photo-article: "Suspicious fire at the old St. Mary's Church The old church in Woodford caught fire Monday afternoon. Fire companies from all over Caroline came in the rain to fight the blaze. They had the fire under control within an hour. The church was built in 1913 and was the only Catholic church in Caroline. The building is no longer used,the new St. Mary's Church is located on Rt. 639 in Ladysmith. The nature of the fire is suspicious because the building has no electricity running to it and there were no signs of lightening damage. The fire is being investigated by the State Police and is possibly connected to another recent old church fire in Woodford. Local resident, Margaret Fedder, whose father helped build St. Mary's, was very saddened by the loss and hopes that it can be restored." Story by Karyn M. Wiedman

Posted on: Caroline Co. Va Query Forum Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Va/Caroline?read=1281 Surname: ------------------------- On Gorge Fleming being married to a Ann Fleming. On the web Charles Fleming had two Ann one born 1705 one 1710. One may be a Mary Ann? Also aother web has a Ann Fleming born to William Fleming Charles brother, this Ann was born 1706. I have someone looking into this, I know the Penn and the payne families where close. Gene Harrison

Posted on: Caroline Co. Va Query Forum Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Va/Caroline?read=1280 Surname: PENN, MADISON, TAYLOR ------------------------- I have recently discovered some additional evidence which supports the theory that John Penn, Sr.'s (circa 1680-1741) wife, Elizabeth, was Elizabeth Madison, daughter of John Mad(d)ison who was born about 1655. This John Mad(d)ison seems to be the father of an Ambrose Madison, born circa 1700 who married Frances Taylor, daughter of James Taylor, Jr., and Martha Thompson. Ambrose Madison's bible record lists the birth and baptism information for his three children born in the 1720s Two of his children had Elizabeth Penn as a Godmother. The other Godparents were mainly Madisons, Taylors, or spouses of Madisons or Taylors. There is conflicting information on whether James Taylor, Sr., (d. 1698 in King & Queen Co., VA), father of James Taylor, Jr., (above) had a daughter, Elizabeth, but the accounts which say he did have a daughter, Elizabeth, say that she died young. Therefore, Elizabeth Penn was probably not a Taylor. Elizabeth, probable wife of John Penn, Sr., who died in Caroline Co., VA in 1741, was probably born about 1685. This is because I think the two oldest Penn children were John Penn, Jr. and George Penn and that they were born between 1700-1705. This estimate on John Penn, Jr.'s and George Penn's date of birth is based in large part on a 1727 deed from Thomas Chew to John Penn and George Penn in Spotsylvania Co., VA. Ambrose Madison, a merchant who traded tobacco with England, had an account book covering the years 1725-1726 (a copy of which is lodged with the Shane Collection, at the Presbyterian Historical Society in Philadelphia, PA) in which, among many other people, the names of George Penn, John Penn, Sr., and John Penn, Jr., were listed. This proves that there were two generations of Penns who were living in the Spotsylvania/King & Queen Co., VA area in 1725-1726. George married Ann __?__ (I no longer believe that she was Ann Fleming). John Penn, Jr., who married Mary __?__ and died in Spotsylvania Co., VA in 1772. Finally, John Penn, Sr., was married to Elizabeth __?__ (probably Madison) about 1700 or shortly before. This Elizabeth Penn was the Godmother to two of Ambrose Madison's children in the 1720s. The rumor that John Penn and Lucy Granville were the parents of the four Penn brothers of VA is further weakened by this additional evidence.

Posted on: Caroline Co. Va Query Forum Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Va/Caroline?read=1274 Surname: PENN, FLEMING ------------------------- George Penn, Sr. (circa 1700-1749) was married to a wife, Ann, at the time of his death in Caroline Co., VA in 1749. Ann remarried to Thomas Dudley. Ann did die in Amherst Co., VA in 1794. This Ann is almost certainly not Ann Fleming, daughter of Charles Fleming. Ann Fleming, daughter of Charles Fleming married a Josias Payne. I am well aware that there has been a long standing rumor, often repeated, that Ann, wife of George Penn, was Ann Fleming. I think there was a question mark after this speculation at one time which others have later removed. This allegation is unproven and in my judgement wrong. I wish I could tell you Ann's maiden name. I have been studying the issue, but so far no concrete proof.

Posted on: Caroline Co. Va Query Forum Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Va/Caroline?read=1272 Surname: PENN, RASTALL ------------------------- You will not find William Penn and Margaret Rastall in Virginia or anywhere in America. William Penn, son of William Penne of Minety, Gloucester Co., England, grandson of John Penne of the same place, was apprenticed as a law-clerk to the counselor-at-law, Christopher George, of Bawnton, near Cirencester, England. He was married in 1570 to Margaret Rastall, daughter of John Rastall, Alderman of Gloucester, and his wife, Anne George, a sister of the above Christopher George. He was a direct ancestor of the famous William Penn, Quaker, Founder of PA. This William Penn died in Malmesbury, Gloucester Co., England by 1588. The rumor is that this couple was also the ancestor of the Penns of VA, but this is unproven.

Posted on: Caroline Co. Va Query Forum Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Va/Caroline?read=1270 Surname: CLARK, HAWKINS, LINK, ROGERS ------------------------- Ann ROGERS b. c1747 in Caroline Co, daughter of John Jr and Mary CLARK ROGERS, supposedly married a LINK. Anyone have any idea which LINK? Also, any info at all about John Adam LINK will be appreciated. He is mentioned in Oct 1740 Caroline court. Again in the Nov 1745 court he is involved in transactions with Philemon HAWKINS (maybe the same Philemon who was in old Orange Co NC later). John Adam LINK was in Spotsylvania Co in 1749 and died in Halifax Co in 1789. Please e-mail direct. Thanks Charlie Weaver, Winston-Salem, NC

Posted on: Caroline Co. Va Query Forum Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Va/Caroline?read=1268 Surname: ------------------------- I am looking for 18th or early 19th C . buildings with a history of being built by Irish settlers. Perferrablly buildings that can be relocated. They can be log or other. Homes, businesses, outbuildings, etc.