This is fascinating, Neil. I have been aware of this in the past but have not read these books. I think I've said before on this list, that just because a family had a still on their property, handed down in a will, didn't mean that family was necessarily in the liquor business, everybody had a still, just like everybody had a smoke house. This was a necessary part of their lives. This is why Europeans fed their children wine, because they didn't have water. However, in VA natural springs are as abundant as rocks, and it boggles the mind to think they didn't have water here. There are references to drunkeness all through Chalkleys - they were fined for it, put in the stocks, kept from holding office, kept from preaching, etc. We now know some people just can't cope with liquor - I can't! Half a glass of wine puts me on my ear and gives me a hangover, so at social occasions I drink ice water and feel completely left out, but there are less drinkers these days. Honest, my body just can't cope with it. And from the number of alcoholics in my family, past and present, I think it runs in the family. I also believe the Native Americans have a body makeup that can't cope with it. Considering, our ancestors in Europe had drunk liquor for hundreds of years (thousands) and had become accustomed to it, it makes sense the Indians wouldn't be able to cope with it, since they hadn't learned to handle it. However, they did use hallucinogenins for many of their spiritual ceremonies since cave man days, according to Jane Auer. Very interesting history, don't you think? Norma macbd1 wrote: > > Several postings to the list question the phrase: "...when the Pilgrims came to New England they had never tasted water..." <snip>