On the subject of water, keep in mind that 18th century Europeans would not have boiled water for drinking, because germs hadn't been discovered and sanitation wasn't in the vocabulary. Also, the phrase "never tasted water" could be figurative, meaning "I never knew how good water could taste until ....." As for "don't drink the water" -- When I was in Ssouthern Europe in the 60's, that was quite true -- in some areas the sewer pipes & water pipes were laid side by side -- by the Romans (maybe a slight exaggeration) -- and leakage was not uncommon. In some places the taps actually ran gritty, with block spots that I don't like to think about. Americans who drank the water often got hepatitis, not to mention dysentery, while the natives built up an immunity from birth (or died young). In addition to problems with drinking water, the American military were told how to wash produce in a solution of bleach & water, because irrigation & fertilizers used were not exactly to American health standards. As for bathing -- Even in some of the larger cities, water was not plentiful, and I knew of one American young man who was tossed from his rooming house (pension) because he took a shower a day and the owners thought that indicated a dreadful skin disease. They may additionally have been concerned about the expense. But, back to Augusta County -- This land with its lush foliage, plentiful streams and free wildlife must have looked like paradise.

Several postings to the list question the phrase: "...when the Pilgrims came to New England they had never tasted water..." Authors will sometimes exaggerate to make a point. In this case the exaggeration is considered to be 'very slight.' Please refer to the following information provided by author Billie Redding Lewis, the above quote being hers. Mrs. Lewis has spent many years researching primary and secondary sources not only for the American colonies but in Europe as well. She is very familiar with the lives and times of her Pilgrim and Puritan ancestors, her books even include photo's of ancestral churches and homes. A list of her books is included at the end of this message. Following is her web-page: http://home.switchboard.com/billiereddinglewis. Mrs. Lewis taught British History and Literature for over twenty years. Now, as to the subject matter, in early times of Europe water was often contaminated and the source of many diseases. Streams could not even be considered 'safe' due to upstream contaminants by animals and humans. Sources of potable water possibly included local springs and hand-dug wells; however, even some of these were not 'pure' and were considered to be 'risky.' Boiled water was likely used for cooking, and possibly for drinking by some, although I do not know this to be factual. (Water from some European public water systems was not recommended to American tourists as recently as 20 years ago, imagine its content 300+ years ago.) Distilling alcoholic beverages in early times was a primary means to obtain potable liquids. I believe we need to research more primary/secondary sources and not base our conclusions on 'how we feel' nor from 'Shirley Temple' type text-book history summaries. Please understand this posting is intended to provide facts about our ancestors, it has nothing to do with today's morals. I can post more info which Mrs. Lewis has provided if you like. Following is 'some' subject info by Mrs. Lewis, with her consent: 1. I think more people need to read about the founding fathers and their travels and travails to appreciate our country, and to know why Franklin County, Virginia became the whiskey-making capital of the country, for example. The lack of pure water in the Old World created a custom of drinking alcoholic beverages for safety, our ancestors then carried this necessary habit to the New World. 2. No one said the Pilgrims had not SEEN water, but they didn't bathe often in Europe in early eras and when they did it was not with purified water. If one visits museums and looks at the state gowns of royal families one will see stained clothes, not from being stored for centuries but from the lack of washing the last time they were worn. 3. Gov. Bradford wrote about the adventurers during one expedition (while the Mayflower was still in port), when trying to find a place to settle in today's Massachusetts: . . "...they found water & refreshed themselves being ye first New -England water they drunke of, and was now in thir great thirste as pleasante unto them as wine or bear had been in (their) fortimes." Ref: Bradford's PLIMOUTH PLANTATION 1901 edition) 4. The Puritans who came ten years later brought with them forty-two tuns of wine and 10,000 gallons of wine on the ARABELLA with only fourteen tuns of water. 5. John Alden was not a religious Pilgrim as were most of the other Pilgrims. He, like Miles Standish, was hired to come with the Mayflower Pilgrims. Miles Standish was hired to be their military leader and John Alden, a cooper by trade, was hired to keep the beer and wine kegs tightly sealed. "Alden had plenty to do to keep the barrels tight and sampling them occasionally to see that air was not getting in to spoil the contents." (REF: Willison's SAINTS AND STRANGERS P. 131) Probably Bradford's journal should be read again by all family researchers, not only for our own history but for European history as well.) 6. People cannot SURVIVE without L I Q U I D. Beer and wine are sterilized liquids because of the alcohol content. Water to us is a necessity, but to Europeans three hundred plus years ago, pure water was not part of a meal; however, beer, wine, and mead were. (Mrs. Lewis tells me mead is a drink, a combination of beer mixed with wine and honey, it was served as a 'typical drink' at an Elizabethan banquet when Mrs. Lewis was researching in England. NMcD) Billie Redding Lewis I am providing a list of Mrs. Lewis' books below for information. NMcD Book 1. REDDING FAMILY & THEIR FAMILIES (History of N.England's founding fathers-both Pilgrims and Puritans) 7 editions (This book was bought by the California State Educational Department. 2. ACROSS THE BLUE RIDGE (6 editions) 3. PIONEERS OF THE VIRIGNIAS (out of print) 4. SOME EARLY SOUTHERN SETTLERS (2 editions) 5. THOMAS UNDERWOOD, 1650 IMMIGRANT (His descendants& their royal connections) 4th ed. 1998 6. ANCESTORS ALONG THE JAMES (Virginia's Old Waterway) 7. ACROSS THE BLUE RIDGE SUPPLEMENT 8. COUNTY KENT, ENGLAND; THE TUDOR PERIOD. (out of print) 9. ULSTER-IRISH, A MISNOMER. (out of print) Mrs. Lewis' books may be found in many holdings including DAR, Library of Congress, Family Library in Salt Lake City, National Mayflower Society Library, Connecticut Society, Virginia State Library, WV State Archives, Midland Texas Library, Allen County Library in Ft. Wayne, IN, New York Public Library and in many European and numerous 'local' libraries in the USA. I'm not a relative of Mrs. Lewis nor do I have any connections to her, I just happened upon her works a week ago. Neil McDonald

Water Cool Clear WATER Sons of the Pioneers Diane that statement is true in the Alps, the mountians northern areas, but much of Italy and France and Greece and France and England etc had serious water problems. In school I did a Thesis on water, that impressed me all my life. Did you know that Ceasar built an aqueduct to travel water across much of Europe because of bad water conditions. Bits of this Aqueduct are still standing in various places in Europe. It was the longest known developed water system ever created. Water has always been a major factor in the lives of us. Bubbling springs and thermal springs and natural springs helped but not all places had these things. Same as today. Unfortunately, today they (society) are letting developers hide them cover them and destroy natural springs. We have two within 20 miles of me and both are being covered to build large expense homes in that area. Still have not figured what they are going to do to control the water. TIS truly sad. SusiCP

Norma I haven't heard the word snockered in a very, very long time. My g grandfather Adam HERWEHE was; of course, German and he used to brew and bottle his own beer and even root beer for the children. I know that he also made his own liquor which my gramma said was for medicinal purposes only. Yeah, sure! But the recipe was never handed down. What a loss! Mickey in Iowa -----Original Message----- From: Norma Lewis <norie@localaccess.com> To: VAAUGUST-L@rootsweb.com <VAAUGUST-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [VAAUGUST-L] Tobacco, hemp & liquor... >I'd like to read a discussion on moonshine. Remember "The Waltons" and the >little old ladies with the "recipe". I think that was very real. Our ancestors >valued good liquor, it was a spcecialty handed down in families. They used it >for many things besides getting snockered. It was a the number 1 medicine for >many years, hundreds probably. It was an antiseptic even before they knew >about such things. It is used for its yeast properties in some baking, fruit >cake needs it for flavor, and everybody laughs about passing the same >fruitcake around every Christmas, but they don't know anything about real >fruit cake. The dried fruit you buy in the store is nothing like what they >used to dry at home and put into these cakes. Yes, let's have a moonshine >discussion. Of course, the recipe is only as good as the equipment too. >Norma > >DVS1119@aol.com wrote: >> >> When I belonged to a NC list last year, they got into a big discussion on >> moonshine and even gave a recipe. It was quite interesting on how the >> families had handed it down and how they made it. >> >> Doris >> >> ==== VAAUGUST Mailing List ==== >> **************************************************************** >> The Augusta County mailing list page has instructions on how to >> subscribe and unsubscribe from the list >> Visit it at: >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~vapulask/augustaquery/augustalist.htm >> *************************************************************** > > >==== VAAUGUST Mailing List ==== >**************************************************************** > Visit the Augusta County VAGenWeb Site at: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vaaugust/ >****************************************************************

A few years ago I was researching in Burke county, N.C. and I ran across a copy of a petition which had been circulated and signed by about fifty people.. The purpose of the petition was to get the voting place moved from Mr. Bakers to Mr. Burlesons place because Mr. Baker had sent out word that he would not allow any "spirits" to be brought on his place..The signers (including some of my family members) asked the state officers to change the voting place because they wanted everyone to have a "nice day" and thought they should be allowed to bring something to the election to wet their lips and git' a little money..The petition was not dated but I believe it was circulated about the time Yancey county was formed from Burke County, abt 1800..There were three Herrall named signed on it so I know where my ancestors stood on making, drinking and selling "Spirits"!!! G. Lee Hearl Abingdon, Va.

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------517C632B35C1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, My KERR ancestors were "manufacturers of whiskey", and they were licensed to distill it. My 3rd greatgrandaddy left his "best still" to one son along with his "corn and grist mill" and the other still to his other son and daughter. In talking with my cousin about this he sent me the following: Linda Roberts Neal --------------517C632B35C1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="Whiskey.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Whiskey.txt" >Jack Goforth wrote: >> FWIW dept. Did you know for the first 20 years or so of Tennessee's >> economy that whisky was the states largest export? There were four >> very good reasons for this. 1. 70% of the first settlers of East Tennessee were Scots-Irish. Even before coming to this country the Ulster Scots were known for making whisky. (The "still" was not an American invention.) One of the first "insurrections" facing the new American Government after the revolution was the "Whisky Rebellion." This was brought on mostly by the Scots-Irish living in NJ and Penn. They became very upset that the new American government had started to tax whisky. (They saw this a return to the kings whisky taxes imposed on them in the old country) 2. Corn would grow profusely in East Tennessee. The long hunters learned from the Indians that corn planted one year, if left undisturbed in the field and shuck would be eatable even up to a couple of years later. Both the Indians and the long hunters planted corn on hunting trips as "markers," as well as to provide a later supply of food.(The Indians also planted corn when they killed a deer as an offering to the great spirit for providing the deer, and as food for the other deer. 3. Early Tennessee had almost no wagon roads, only trails, especially out of or across the mountains. Any cash money had to come into the area from over the mountains or from down the rivers. 4. Corn, the ideal crop to grow in East Tennessee was worth much more money by the barrel and in liquid form than corn in dry weight. Whisky was Tennessee's first "cash crop." You didn't have be concerned with rats, bugs or mold if you shipped your corn in liquid form and it would provide a much higher price or barter items. Tobacco later became a big ET "cash" crop as well. --------------517C632B35C1--

Hi all, Anyone following this thread about moonshine know of any FULTON, KENNADY, McCORD, McFADDEN, McMURTREY, NIX, LEEPER, SCHULTZE, or TIDWELL recipes for moonshine. All these folks lived at some time in the "hills" between NC, SC, VA and KY and TN, and I'd bet three-fourths of them made moonshine. Gene ATKIN <genea2@juno.com> Forty Surnames, etc.: <http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/a/t/k/Eugene-L-Atkin> On Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:40:58 -0500 Angel329@prodigy.net writes: >When I was a little girl I can remember when it got to canning time >that it >could be difficult to go and buy all of the sugar you needed. If you >bought >over 25 lbs. you had to sign a Federal paper just like it was a >Perocoric or >a controlled substance!! >They just knew that you were using it to make Corn Licker. >Especially, in my German ancestors wills, the Stills were one of the >most >precious items handed down in the wills. Next to feather mattresses. >It is something to note that for some reason, they willed Stills to >their >daughters more than their sons. I guess they figured the sons got the >land >and all so the daughters would have a source of income.<G> >Diana Kinzer Heath > > >==== VAAUGUST Mailing List ==== >**************************************************************** >The Augusta County mailing list page has instructions on how to > subscribe and unsubscribe from the list > Visit it at: >http://www.rootsweb.com/~vapulask/augustaquery/augustalist.htm >*************************************************************** > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

If you are interested in such, You should read "The Foxfire Book" edited by Eliot Wiggington. It has a chapter entitled "Moonshining as a Fine Art". Most of it covers old fashion, plain, country living, much as my G Grandparents lived. This one of a series of at least five volumes and they are all very good and well worth the time to read. Chief

When I was a little girl I can remember when it got to canning time that it could be difficult to go and buy all of the sugar you needed. If you bought over 25 lbs. you had to sign a Federal paper just like it was a Perocoric or a controlled substance!! They just knew that you were using it to make Corn Licker. Especially, in my German ancestors wills, the Stills were one of the most precious items handed down in the wills. Next to feather mattresses. It is something to note that for some reason, they willed Stills to their daughters more than their sons. I guess they figured the sons got the land and all so the daughters would have a source of income.<G> Diana Kinzer Heath

I'd like to read a discussion on moonshine. Remember "The Waltons" and the little old ladies with the "recipe". I think that was very real. Our ancestors valued good liquor, it was a spcecialty handed down in families. They used it for many things besides getting snockered. It was a the number 1 medicine for many years, hundreds probably. It was an antiseptic even before they knew about such things. It is used for its yeast properties in some baking, fruit cake needs it for flavor, and everybody laughs about passing the same fruitcake around every Christmas, but they don't know anything about real fruit cake. The dried fruit you buy in the store is nothing like what they used to dry at home and put into these cakes. Yes, let's have a moonshine discussion. Of course, the recipe is only as good as the equipment too. Norma DVS1119@aol.com wrote: > > When I belonged to a NC list last year, they got into a big discussion on > moonshine and even gave a recipe. It was quite interesting on how the > families had handed it down and how they made it. > > Doris > > ==== VAAUGUST Mailing List ==== > **************************************************************** > The Augusta County mailing list page has instructions on how to > subscribe and unsubscribe from the list > Visit it at: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vapulask/augustaquery/augustalist.htm > ***************************************************************

I've enjoyed this list for awhile so far, but haven't yet submitted anything but one brief inquiry. Hoping someone can help with this problem. I'm searching for the families of John B. Portlock and Sarah (Sary) Dougherty who were married in Fauquier Co. 27 Dec 1791. John B. was born in Shenandoah according to his R.V. war pension application. Shenandoah town? County? or somewhere in the Shenandoah Valley? He must have had parents in the area in 1765. (b. 7 Jul. 1765). John was in Augusta Co. in 1789 turning in his wolf scalps; William Portlock turned in scalps in 1790 -- father or brother? We have no information on the Dougherty family, who were probably in Fauquier co. also. We would appreciate any info on Dougherty's or Portlocks in any of these areas who could possibly tie in. Thank you. Beverly Portlock geoport1@aol.com

The "moonshine" discussion actually got started because someone had a will stating that their ancestor had inherited a still, cap, and worm. They came to the list wanting to know what a worm was. After a few messages, we learned that it was a coil-shaped mechanism that is part of the workings of the still. Then the TN "White Lightning" folks, the "Old Kentucky" folks and the OK "Bootleggers" had a wonderful discussion on the recipes that had been handed down. Doris

When I belonged to a NC list last year, they got into a big discussion on moonshine and even gave a recipe. It was quite interesting on how the families had handed it down and how they made it. Doris

What did they bathe in?? I have seen references to their carrying water in the flask of animal stomach...... You must have water to survive!! We hear warnings when going overseas "don't drink the water!" This doesn't mean that the countrymen where we are going doesn't drink it...it's just that how systems might not be used to it. They battled constantly in England, Europe...how did they quench their thirsts in battle?? Dirt?? No, they definately had tasted water!!! Diana Kinzer Heath ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ USGenWeb County Coordinator for: Roanoke Co., Roanoke City & Salem City, VA at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~varoanok/index.html Wood Co., WV at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~wvwood/indexa.htm Mason Co., WV at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~wvmason/ Rootsweb Mail List Owner/Admin for: VAROANOK-L@Rootsweb.com WVWOOD-L@Rootsweb.com KINZER-L@Rootsweb.com GRALEY-L@Rootsweb.com MILLER-L@Rootsweb.com SCHMIDT-L@Rootsweb.com BERNHARD-L@Rootsweb.com KARP-L@Rootsweb.com GenConnect Surname Boards Admin. for: KINZER, CORNS & MILLER. MY HOME PAGE: http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/h/e/a/Diana-K-Heath/ ***Proud Rootsweb Sponsor*** -----Original Message----- From: G. Lee Hearl <glh@naxs.com> To: VAAUGUST-L@rootsweb.com <VAAUGUST-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [VAAUGUST-L] Tobacco, hemp & liquor... >To whomever: >No one will ever convince me that any person who came to America on a >sailing ship had never tasted water!! Are we to think that those who were >crowded onto those little ships and spent two to three months at sea were >given wine to drink during the voyage!! >They were very lucky to get a small ration of water each day..I wonder >where such information comes from... >G. Lee..Hearl Abingdon, Va.. > > >==== VAAUGUST Mailing List ==== >**************************************************************** >The Augusta County mailing list page has instructions on how to > subscribe and unsubscribe from the list > Visit it at: >http://www.rootsweb.com/~vapulask/augustaquery/augustalist.htm >*************************************************************** >

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_917455361_boundary Content-ID: <0_917455361@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I am researching the HENKEL family of Augusta Co. and particularly George HENKEL and his descendants. George came to Augusta around 1800 and married Mary O'Roark in 1804. He had a daughter, Matilda by a first wife. She married a Zerckel. I can't figure out where George died or where he is buried. Any clues would be appreciated! Other Surnames: MCCUNE, WEEKES, COFFEE, QUINN, Thanks! Rebecca Henkel Terrett RVHT@aol.com --part0_917455361_boundary Content-ID: <0_917455361@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: Rvht@aol.com Return-path: <Rvht@aol.com> To: VAAUGUST@rootsweb Cc: Rvht@aol.com Subject: Henkel Family Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:03:38 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I am researching the HENKEL family of Augusta Co. and particularly George HENKEL and his descendants. George came to Augusta around 1800 and married Mary O'Roark in 1804. He had a daughter, Matilda by a first wife. She married a Zerckel. I can't figure out where George died or where he is buried. Any clues would be appreciated! Other Surnames: MCCUNE, WEEKES, COFFEE, QUINN, Thanks! Rebecca Henkel Terrett RVHT@aol.com --part0_917455361_boundary--

Lee and Jim - you guys broke me up! Keep up the great humor. Our ancestors probably wouldn't have made it without such humor or without those beverages, and the rest of us can surely use some good laughs! Researching CARUTHERS, PAXTON, CLARK, OGLESBY, HERSEY. Terry

Yes Jim, A LOT OF MOONSHINE! I don't like to clutter the list with such things, but I believe I spelled "SCOTCH" wrong!! Just didn't want to receive a lot of corrections!! G. Lee Hearl......

Jim, I agree with the statement about it not being much of a beverage!! In researching my Herrall lines, I have found that I am part English, part Irish, part Cherokee Indian all mixed with some Skotch and water!! G. Lee

I've started a new Koiner list, and allied names welcome too. It's on ListBot, so if anyone wants to join, let me know and I'll send you an invitation which makes it easy to join. Some of us are having a problem, Jim and Bill? We have some good German researchers on the list, should be fun. Norma

To whomever: No one will ever convince me that any person who came to America on a sailing ship had never tasted water!! Are we to think that those who were crowded onto those little ships and spent two to three months at sea were given wine to drink during the voyage!! They were very lucky to get a small ration of water each day..I wonder where such information comes from... G. Lee..Hearl Abingdon, Va..