Hello Listers, I am sorry to post this to the group, but I'm not sure who specifically to ask...I have been trying (without much success) to trace the line of Zachariah Dunn born c1774 probably in area of Albemarle. So, I've been reading other people's lineages to see if I could connect. Alot of people use those CDs as their verification and/or documentation to the facts they post. My question, (and please email me privately as not to over-run the list) is where do those facts--on the CDs-- come from if WE can't find them by traditional means, such as the library, courthouse, historical societies, etc.? And do they have information on siblings, parents, etc? Please, again, email me privately so as not to over-run the list. I only ask because, I'm not familiar with them at all. Thank you, Michelle

Having grown-up in Varina and played in that area I have heard tales of many of the "Masters and Gentlemen" of that area. Where can I find this publication? Michael D. Harding ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [VAALBEMA-L] "Sprirts" reimbursements > If you think that is great- you should read the private diaries of William > Byrd of Westover- they have been deciphered and published!! Wow- what a > life!!! > > > ==== VAALBEMA Mailing List ==== > REMINDER: Repost your queries periodically (no more than monthly) to make new members aware of your interests. > >

My old folks still "grub out" their potatoes. If this grubbing frolick is in the fall, maybe they are digging out their root crops. At 08:59 PM 7/14/99 -0700, you wrote: >Well, 'Frolick' probably meant a party, and 'Grubbing' is another word for >hoeing, so maybe they had a party for people to come and do something to >the deceased person's crops? > >

If you think that is great- you should read the private diaries of William Byrd of Westover- they have been deciphered and published!! Wow- what a life!!!

Don, and everyone else who has responded to this question: Thanks a bunch!! The exchange rate does make sense because I have seen where these rates were posted/noted in old records. I've even seen where they'd except Fox furs, etc... for titheables; guessing they were having problems w/these animals and their crops at the particular time. And the Lime story makes sense too. I recall reading where once a wagon of limes came to a mountain region and someone was brought to court for supposedly "Slandering" saying the man intended to keep all the limes for himself (not going to share any of them). I just feel it's fascinating to get into how the people existed and what they did way back yonder <g>. Thanks again for all your input!! Brenda

In a message dated 7/14/99 9:19:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << So gang...what's a "Vendue"? What's a "Grubbing Frolick"? Was it a custom back then to provide liquor to mourners? I welcome any explanations you can shed on this subject. Thanks! Brenda >> Vendue was the public sale/auction of the effects of the deceased. I'm not familiar with "Grubbing Frolick, " but it sounds like good time was had by all.

Looking for the ALDRIDGE family that married into the CARTER family in Amherst County around 1820. Specifically the parents of Mary M Aldridge who married John Champe Carter 1821 in Amherst Co. Carol H.

Ah ha! perhaps that one word "vendue" is the clue.. definition from Black's Law Book: " a sale, generally a sale at public auction, an more particularly a sale so made under authority of law, as by a constable, sheriff, tax collector, administrator, etc." ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Hi list I can't remember if Brenda told me this in person or whether it was posted - but specifically rum was mentioned somewhere in this story... ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

In a message dated 7/14/99 10:43:13 PM Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << Well, 'Frolick' probably meant a party, and 'Grubbing' is another word for hoeing, so maybe they had a party for people to come and do something to the deceased person's crops? >> If I am not mistaken grub also stands for food. So, a party and food go together like a hand and glove. Jno

Well, 'Frolick' probably meant a party, and 'Grubbing' is another word for hoeing, so maybe they had a party for people to come and do something to the deceased person's crops? Barbara Jennings http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/j/e/n/Barbara-G-Jennings/ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [SMTP:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 6:16 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [VAALBEMA-L] "Sprirts" reimbursements Here's some examples, and geeze...I hope I'm not breaking any copyright laws <g>. Just using these as examples in hopes of figuring out a little "death" history. From Chalkley's Scottish-Irish History in Augusta County, VA. (found in Rootsweb.com) These are from settlements of wills: 1. Page 163.--16th November, 1768. John Crington's estate, in account with James Davis--A sheet for a funeral, ?0.12.0.; 1 gallon of liquor, ?0.3.0.; 3 weeks' attendance, ?0.9.0., to a coffin, ?0.15.0. 2. Page 166.--2d September, 1768. Malcom Campbell's estate settled, by William Simpson and Elizabeth, his wife, administrators--Paid Francis Deleney, Saml. Flours, Adam Baird. Saml. Drake, Archibald Lamb, George Dare for Col. Preston, William Haley, Anthony Bledsoe for 8 gallons rum for vendue; James McNeil. for catching horses; Austin Brumbly, for catching horses; Peter Dyerly, Abraham Moon. Sale at vendue November 29th, 1763. 3. Page 168.--9th November, 1768. George Ghost's estate appraised, by Cornelius Ruddell. John Thomas--Funarrall of William Munsey for the use of Geo. Ghost, deceased; to 1 winding sheet, ?0.16.6.; to 1 shirt, ?0 14 0.; to making a coughing, ?0.5.0.; to 5 quarts whiskey, ?0.5.0.; to trouble of sickness and attendance. 4. Page 228.--16th August, 1769. Settlement recorded of Robert Shanklin's estate (Edward Shanklin, executor)--Paid Jane Logan for 12 gallons whiskey; paid Joseph Peace for making a coffin and plank. 5. Page 447.--6th December, 1753. Sale bill of Nicholas Trout's estate to, viz: Jno. Love, Jno. Hales, Patrick Wilson, Jno. Walles, Valentine Pence, Wm. Logan, Gasper Faught, Jacob Sink, Andw. Faught, Evan Evans, Pat. Kinney, widow Trout, Nicholas Millberry, Thos. Crawford, Geo. Trout, Jno. Craig. Setttlement of above estate by Geo. Trout, administrator, recorded 21st May, 1766--Cash paid for liquor at the vendue, 5 gallons at 3/; cash paid for liquor at a grubbing frolick, 6 quarts at 9 per quart, ?0.5.6.; cash paid for 6 quarts liquor at the funeral, ?0.4.6.; paid Teter Couts, Bernard Man. Contra--Received from John Capebritton. 6. Page 474.--28th September, 1765. William Frazier's estate sold at vendue--to, viz: Hance Magot, Wm. Hook, Wm. Patterson, John Ferrell, Jacob Herrberrger, Michael Coker. Settlement of above estate, by James Frazier--4 gallons liquor at the funeral, 6-1/2 gallons for vendue. So gang...what's a "Vendue"? What's a "Grubbing Frolick"? Was it a custom back then to provide liquor to mourners? I welcome any explanations you can shed on this subject. Thanks! Brenda ==== VAALBEMA Mailing List ==== TIP: Queries should contain as much information as you know, i.e. dates and places of all vital events if known, along other family members so that the reader can identify if they are researching the same family.

Barbara - I happen to have a cousin by the name of "Barbara Jennings" aka "Bobbi." Do you happen to live in Phoenix, AZ by any chance??? Anna - Phoenix, AZ - USA [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Jennings <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 8:48 PM Subject: RE: [VAALBEMA-L] "Sprirts" reimbursements >Well, 'Frolick' probably meant a party, and 'Grubbing' is another word for >hoeing, so maybe they had a party for people to come and do something to >the deceased person's crops? > >Barbara Jennings >http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/j/e/n/Barbara-G-Jennings/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] [SMTP:[email protected]] >Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 6:16 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [VAALBEMA-L] "Sprirts" reimbursements > >Here's some examples, and geeze...I hope I'm not breaking any copyright >laws ><g>. Just using these as examples in hopes of figuring out a little >"death" >history. From Chalkley's Scottish-Irish History in Augusta County, VA. >(found in Rootsweb.com) > >These are from settlements of wills: > >1. Page 163.--16th November, 1768. John Crington's estate, in account >with >James Davis--A sheet for a funeral, ?0.12.0.; 1 gallon of liquor, ?0.3.0.; >3 >weeks' attendance, ?0.9.0., to a coffin, ?0.15.0. > >2. Page 166.--2d September, 1768. Malcom Campbell's estate settled, by >William Simpson and Elizabeth, his wife, administrators--Paid Francis >Deleney, Saml. Flours, Adam Baird. Saml. Drake, Archibald Lamb, George Dare >for Col. Preston, William Haley, Anthony Bledsoe for 8 gallons rum for >vendue; James McNeil. for catching horses; Austin Brumbly, for catching >horses; Peter Dyerly, Abraham Moon. Sale at vendue November 29th, 1763. > >3. Page 168.--9th November, 1768. George Ghost's estate appraised, by >Cornelius Ruddell. John Thomas--Funarrall of William Munsey for the use of >Geo. Ghost, deceased; to 1 winding sheet, ?0.16.6.; to 1 shirt, ?0 14 0.; >to >making a coughing, ?0.5.0.; to 5 quarts whiskey, ?0.5.0.; to trouble of >sickness and attendance. > >4. Page 228.--16th August, 1769. Settlement recorded of Robert Shanklin's >estate (Edward Shanklin, executor)--Paid Jane Logan for 12 gallons whiskey; >paid Joseph Peace for making a coffin and plank. > >5. Page 447.--6th December, 1753. Sale bill of Nicholas Trout's estate >to, >viz: Jno. Love, Jno. Hales, Patrick Wilson, Jno. Walles, Valentine Pence, >Wm. >Logan, Gasper Faught, Jacob Sink, Andw. Faught, Evan Evans, Pat. Kinney, >widow Trout, Nicholas Millberry, Thos. Crawford, Geo. Trout, Jno. Craig. >Setttlement of above estate by Geo. Trout, administrator, recorded 21st >May, >1766--Cash paid for liquor at the vendue, 5 gallons at 3/; cash paid for >liquor at a grubbing frolick, 6 quarts at 9 per quart, ?0.5.6.; cash paid >for >6 quarts liquor at the funeral, ?0.4.6.; paid Teter Couts, Bernard Man. >Contra--Received from John Capebritton. > >6. Page 474.--28th September, 1765. William Frazier's estate sold at >vendue--to, viz: Hance Magot, Wm. Hook, Wm. Patterson, John Ferrell, Jacob >Herrberrger, Michael Coker. Settlement of above estate, by James Frazier--4 >gallons liquor at the funeral, 6-1/2 gallons for vendue. > >So gang...what's a "Vendue"? What's a "Grubbing Frolick"? Was it a custom >back then to provide liquor to mourners? I welcome any explanations you >can >shed on this subject. Thanks! Brenda > > > >==== VAALBEMA Mailing List ==== >TIP: Queries should contain as much information as you know, i.e. dates and >places of all vital events if known, along other family members so that the >reader can identify if they are researching the same family. > > >==== VAALBEMA Mailing List ==== >______ Support RootsWeb _______ >Support the people who support you. Join Rootsweb at: >http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html/ >RootsWeb supports our research by hosting our mailing list! >Do you support RootsWeb? >

Mim Where did the word "Teetotaler" come from. Don

Can I put in a word or two maybe three A Vendue=Vendor a grubbing Frock =digging clothes. There were 14 different means of exchange (Money) up until the late 1890 in Virginia. Rum was beleived to ward off many different sickness, the british used it to ward of the scurbies until they found Vitamin C was the cure so Limes were passed out with the ration of Rum. That is why they are called Limes. Whiskey had a certain value by the gallon, rum had a certain value, Ale had a value, beer was also used, Tobacco, Skins, Cloth, and grain. The grave diggers would drink a lot of Rum while digging, the colder the weather the more they drank. Digging in an area where bodies were placed was a very smelling job, along with the fear of catching something in the ground. In the county records you will find the exchange rate set by the county as to the value of lodging and drinks. Don

Vendue is an old term for an auction. I have no idea what "grubbing frolick" means. It sounds like they are using the liquor to get people tipsy. Possibly to loosen wallets at the auction? Page

On the question of the spirits I asked my brother and my family has been in the funeral business along with the owners since the early 1900's. He said back in the old days funeral homes were called funeral merchandisers and were usually part of another shop such as a cabinet maker ect. He said the spirits were actually used in conjunction with the wake especially in Irish communities. Hope this makes sense Lelia [email protected] wrote: > Alice: I don't know if the mourners used the "spirits" or not. All I've > seen is Mr. So & So asking for reimbursements and there will be this list > with some, but not all of the following included, with the exception of > "Spirits"...that will always be on the list: caring for the people, digging > grave, pine box, white linen, bam-bam or rum (spririts). Now I'm strarting > to wonder if the people didn't use it to wash themselves with AFTER dealing > with/prepping the dead? > > ==== VAALBEMA Mailing List ==== > REMINDER: Repost your queries periodically (no more than monthly) to make new members aware of your interests.

My mother-in-law calls it her "cough medicine" and then brags to everyone in her Baptist Church about what a "teetotaler" she is!

Could "spirits" have been used to "wash down" or disinfect the person because of the alcohol content? Sounds strange, but maybe they didn't have any other way, and it did disinfect. Just a shot in the dark!

Here's some examples, and geeze...I hope I'm not breaking any copyright laws <g>. Just using these as examples in hopes of figuring out a little "death" history. From Chalkley's Scottish-Irish History in Augusta County, VA. (found in Rootsweb.com) These are from settlements of wills: 1. Page 163.--16th November, 1768. John Crington's estate, in account with James Davis--A sheet for a funeral, £0.12.0.; 1 gallon of liquor, £0.3.0.; 3 weeks' attendance, £0.9.0., to a coffin, £0.15.0. 2. Page 166.--2d September, 1768. Malcom Campbell's estate settled, by William Simpson and Elizabeth, his wife, administrators--Paid Francis Deleney, Saml. Flours, Adam Baird. Saml. Drake, Archibald Lamb, George Dare for Col. Preston, William Haley, Anthony Bledsoe for 8 gallons rum for vendue; James McNeil. for catching horses; Austin Brumbly, for catching horses; Peter Dyerly, Abraham Moon. Sale at vendue November 29th, 1763. 3. Page 168.--9th November, 1768. George Ghost's estate appraised, by Cornelius Ruddell. John Thomas--Funarrall of William Munsey for the use of Geo. Ghost, deceased; to 1 winding sheet, £0.16.6.; to 1 shirt, £0 14 0.; to making a coughing, £0.5.0.; to 5 quarts whiskey, £0.5.0.; to trouble of sickness and attendance. 4. Page 228.--16th August, 1769. Settlement recorded of Robert Shanklin's estate (Edward Shanklin, executor)--Paid Jane Logan for 12 gallons whiskey; paid Joseph Peace for making a coffin and plank. 5. Page 447.--6th December, 1753. Sale bill of Nicholas Trout's estate to, viz: Jno. Love, Jno. Hales, Patrick Wilson, Jno. Walles, Valentine Pence, Wm. Logan, Gasper Faught, Jacob Sink, Andw. Faught, Evan Evans, Pat. Kinney, widow Trout, Nicholas Millberry, Thos. Crawford, Geo. Trout, Jno. Craig. Setttlement of above estate by Geo. Trout, administrator, recorded 21st May, 1766--Cash paid for liquor at the vendue, 5 gallons at 3/; cash paid for liquor at a grubbing frolick, 6 quarts at 9 per quart, £0.5.6.; cash paid for 6 quarts liquor at the funeral, £0.4.6.; paid Teter Couts, Bernard Man. Contra--Received from John Capebritton. 6. Page 474.--28th September, 1765. William Frazier's estate sold at vendue--to, viz: Hance Magot, Wm. Hook, Wm. Patterson, John Ferrell, Jacob Herrberrger, Michael Coker. Settlement of above estate, by James Frazier--4 gallons liquor at the funeral, 6-1/2 gallons for vendue. So gang...what's a "Vendue"? What's a "Grubbing Frolick"? Was it a custom back then to provide liquor to mourners? I welcome any explanations you can shed on this subject. Thanks! Brenda

Considereing their lack of embalming fluid- perhaps they used it for that purpose- what say you'll??Esp. five gallonS-who drank that much and could finish the job of burial??LOL