Hello Frances and interested list members, I recently was reviewing some of my old genealogy notes, and found that Robert Payne was identified as being a silversmith, when a young man, aged fifteen, was apprenticed to Robert to "learn the art and mystery of silversmithing" in the Caswell County Court Records. Later on, Robert was found to be commissioned to make a county seal for the county of Caswell" I am not sure if John Payne mentioned in my previous message was a brother to Robert or not, but were he a brother, chances are that he could have practiced the same profession in Caswell County, NC. Best regards, John Fox Winston Salem, NC In a message dated 5/1/01 4:22:32 PM, fharper@triad.rr.com writes: << Response below. > I had recently posted some information on two Paynes who had settled in the > 1750's in what was then Orange County, NC, at the time my John Satterfield > moved there. This Robert and John Payne established an ordinary with my John > Satterfield in 1775 after Caswell was set off from Orange County. The > community of Paynes Tavern still exists today, which is on the southeastern > side of Person County, which was a part of Caswell in those days. Family > lore promoted the idea that these men were related to Dolly Payne Madison, > but I have not seen a document to verify that. The Satterfields and the > Paynes often witnessed documents for each other, and I have always wondered > if their relationship was just business. I descend from this John Payne. I found mention of him in old family papers that were kept by my gr-gr-aunt in the mid-late 1800's. I have no idea what her source was or how reliable her information was. But for whatever it's worth..... Her notes state that he was from England and a cousin of the Earl of Granville who promised him land if he'd come to America with "his" daughters and a Mr Jones. I don't know who the "his" was referring to. According to Person County Heritage, John Payne's wife was Susanna Satterwhite whom he married 2/11/1769 in Granville Co. Their daughter Anne Payne m Jesse Carter Jr d 1815 Caswell Co. Their son John Payne Carter m 1821 Cornelia Ann Murphey, daughter of Judge Archibald DeBow Murphey. They were the grandparents of my gr-gr-aunt who kept these notes. A Susan Satterwhite was also the first wife of Jesse Carter Sr and the mother of Jesse Carter Jr who m Anne Payne. This from a book by Joseph Miller about the descendants of Capt Thomas Carter. I have never found anything to explain any kinship between Susanna Satterwhite and Susan Satterwhite. I don't have any information concerning the parents of either. I would certainly suggest checking whatever records are available to try to verify these connections. I have seen many books with errors and can't guarantee that this information is accurate since this is not a family that I've tried to document myself. >>