In a message dated 5/11/01 1:58:31 PM, Hdanw@aol.com writes: << When I asked an an attorney-genealogist why a person I was researching had probates in two states, she replied that if a person owns property in two places (jurisdictions), then a probate is held in each jurisdiction. Makes sense to me. E.W.Wallace always learning new tricks in genealogy (we learn by researching, not always by internetting) >> Hello all, Another reason to check out neighboring counties when looking for records on your families, is that citizens were allowed to file or probate in the county seat which was most convenient for them, especially in the early years prior to the establishment of new counties divided from the earlier larger counties. Of course this practice became less and less allowable as a sufficent number of counties provided for better access. For marriage licenses, you would have to check in the county where the bride resided, as she was not to be overly "put out" by having to go into a county which was not her home county to obtain a marriage contract, so even if her groom and she would be living within his home county, hers was the one to check for, for a marriage bond, especially in Virginia. North Carolina was a little more flexible in some instances, especially if the bride was just over the line from her groom's home county. John Fox Winston Salem, NC

In a message dated 5/11/01 10:30:44 AM, CASHKILBY@aol.com writes: << QUESTION: Original Marriage bonds. Where are these? Are they still kept at the counties? The archives has various transcripts of marriages, but I've never really asked if they also have the originals. Does anyone know? Craig >> Hi Craig and List, The Archives used to allow patrons to see the actual bonds, but they have discontinued that process. The bonds have been microfilmed and can be accessed through that medium. The same is true for pay vouchers which North Carolina isssued for its citizens who served in the Revolutionary War or for those who provided services or supplies. All are now microfilmed, to keep the actual records from being gradually eroded by constant handling. Best regards, John Fox Winston Salem, NC

> could you all possibly be referring to the 5 sons of James Jones Jr > s/o James Jones who left a 1719 Prince George Co Va will ? He had > 4 daughters & one son James II . James Jr had 5 sons... Hi Malinda, The 5 JONES brothers we spoke of were located in Meckenburg & Halifax Co., VA and Granville Co., NC and proved by Robert's will of 1771. They are all b. in the 1700 -1720 timeframe. Many researchers state they were the sons of Robert Sr., son of Richard, son of Thomas the immigrant from Wales. There appears to be no proof past the 5 brothers, but I would certainly like to hear from someone who has found it. I have a deed abstract that states Robert was "of St. Mary's Parish Caroline Co., VA" when he bought land on Aaron's Creek in Granville Co., NC in 1752. Other indicators also suggest Caroline Co. Best wishes, Ron

I have not seen it mentioned in the recent exchange. Some of you may not be aware that microfilm is available thru Interlibrary Loan from the Library of VA. It is a free 28 day loan and you can get as many as 5 reels at one time even for out-of-staters. It covers wills, order books, guardian accounts, deeds, and marriage records. At least it does for Mecklenburg Co., the only one I have ordered microfilm for. It appears to be old microfilm, some have dates back in the 1950s, but I never complained! :-)) Copy the info from the following link and take it to your local librarian. You may have to back up a page or two to find the address. It takes 3 - 4 weeks to get it. There was some small insurance fee that my library paid. A friend was charged a small fee at her library. http://www.lva.lib.va.us/collect/localrecs/locrecs-listing.htm I also found there a very good explanation of the Personal Property Tax lists and the Land Tax lists. These reels were not available, however. Ron

I wasn't suggesting that a researcher not get the estate file. I was merely pointing out the easiest procedure to obtain the results mentioned when you don't know whether the person left a will. A request for a will gets you the will of a testator or the estate file of an intestate. It is not necessary to request an estate file unless you want one for a testator. If you want to request both at the same time, it is would be better to determine if there is a will listed in the book first, since out-of-state residents must send in $10 per request. The "Guide to Research Materials in the North Carolina State Archives: County Records" published in 1997 shows original marriage bonds in the Archives for most of the counties old enough to have them.

Concerning wills and estate papers of Granville Co., NC (and any other place in the US plus perhaps Canada, England, hopefully Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and some German states). If: 1.  You have time and not money 2.   And, if you are near an LDS family history center Then:  LDS (family history library at Salt Lake City) has 27-29 films of early Granville Co. wills and many other films pertaining to estates and loose papers.  There is a very good index which I have read.  It lists devisors (the person making the will) and then there is a cross reference to devisees (the persons benefiting from the provisions in the will). By using the devisee cross index, I have been able to pick up the names of married daughters, thereby solving a few knotty problems--where did those females go and whom did they marry?  Of course, for direct ancestors, I prefer to get the will itself, but for collaterals and allied families, the devisee index is quite useful. For out-of-staters, I believe the fees charged by the NC Archives are quite costly now.  Most states are adopting this out-of-state policy, as we genealogists are overwhelming them!!! By the way, for those who have not been to the Fam Hist Library at Salt Lake City, one will be amazed at the number of professionals (and some who are not professional but who will search for a fee) who use that library (open 6 days a week and stays open late most days).  CyndisList has a list of professional researchers, as does NGS and also The Genealogical Helper; also the Library at Salt Lake City generally has a print-out of US researchers, as well as those for European countries. Sometimes one gets quicker results by hiring a professional, providing you yourself have done some groundwork, such as searching an index and citing a will book and page number (or a deed book and a page).  I have had excellent results that way. Not to be overlooked--in some cases, Duke U. has some estate papers, and I believe the Univ. of NC is also acquiring more and more family history collections. Helen Leary, a well-known North Carolina genealogist and author, gave a very good lecture at NGS conference, Richmond , VA in 1999 in determining whether your North Carolinian had Virginia roots. She reminds persons that there are no good ports in North Carolina until one gets to Wilmington. You folks generally did not come by B-747s. E.W.Wallace who has early NCians who came from Virginia

When I asked an an attorney-genealogist why a person I was researching had probates in two states, she replied that if a person owns property in two places (jurisdictions), then a probate is held in each jurisdiction. Makes sense to me. E.W.Wallace always learning new tricks in genealogy (we learn by researching, not always by internetting)

It's been a few years since I ordered wills from Mecklenburg Co. VA, but at that time you couldn't get copies of them, but I did get copies from the State Library in Richmond. They have been microfilmed and are available throught the LDS Family History Library, and a roll can be ordered for 5 weeks for $3.25. I have ordered several rolls here in Eugene, Oregon. A lot of the libraries now have machines that can photocopy the microfilm pages for you. Kathy Awbrey in Pleasant Hill, OR ----- Original Message ----- From: <CASHKILBY@aol.com> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 7:23 PM Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Mecklenburg VA v. Granville NC, my mistake > In a message dated 5/10/01 7:21:42 PM, cara@dcdesign.com writes: > > << << the will is recorded in Mecklenburg County, VA Will Book 3, p. 85 of > the > Circuit Clerk's office. However, they don't make copies from the will books. > Alternativley, the original will MAY be [and probably is] on file at the > North Carolina State Archives in Raleigh NC. >> > > I am curious about this statement. My first querie is why would a > Mecklenburg will be recorded in Granville, NC. >> > > My mistake. Of course Virginia wills are not usually recorded in North > Carolina except under certain circumstances where disputes arose over > possessions in North Carolina. > > You CAN get copies of wills recorded in Mecklenburg County, VA. It is > Granville Co., NC that will NOT make copies for you from the will book, but > most of the original wills in NC are on file at Raleigh (and originals are > always better sources than recorded copies, though sometimes the recorded > copy can clarify bad handwriting and shaky signatures). In VIRGINIA, few > original wills are extant unless you find them in a chancery court file, > (some of which are at Richmond, some still at the courthouses, many gone > forever.) > > That being said those doing research in Mecklenburg Co., VA or Granville Co., > NC are well advised to search records in the other county. > > Again, I apologize for my mistake. > > Craig Kilby > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > VAGenWeb http://www.rootsweb.com/~vagenweb > > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp > >

I want to thank all those who responded to my message concerning the Jones-Griffin will information. If I've failed to thank anyone who responded off-list, its because a sudden storm caused me to lose some messages . BTW, for the second time following a post to this list I received two message with attachments, obviously viruses. Someone isn't practicing safe e-mailing. Joyce

In a message dated 5/10/01 9:41:59 PM, CASH KILBY writes: << I am not sure that either is the Robert who d. 1771. The latter bought land in Granville in 1752 and it states he was "of St. Mary's Parish Caroline Co., VA." He was not listed as a Jr., but I suspect these deeds are where that conclusion was drawn from. This 1752 deed is the earliest record in the area that I feel sure is tied to the 5 brothers. If you want this abstract, I will be glad to send it. >> Ron: Yes I'd like to have the abstract of this deed. I am rereading your original post and didn't pick up on this item the first time through. So Robert Jones who d. 1771 in Mecklenburg County was from St. Mary's Parish in Caroline Co., VA? I assume the land in this deed is on Aaron's Creek? That is a very good link, Ron. Certainly makes sense in light of the will of James Collins of Caroline Co., VA mentioned in the Granville Co. NC deed from children of Ambrose Jones, Sr. Thanks again, Craig Kilby

In a message dated 5/11/01 5:41:59 AM, Rbsgenealogy@cs.com writes: << There is a very thorough index of all NC wills called "North Carolina Wills: A Testator Index, 1665-1900" by Thornton W. Mitchell (Genealogical Publishing Co.). If you request a will, the NC archives staff will check this index first. If there is no will listed, they will send you the estate papers.>> This is true but it must be emphasized that if a person died without a will, they will not be listed in this index. Also, if they did die with a will, they may ALSO have an estate file which is seperately filed and catalogued. A researcher should ask for both. Each set of records (wills and estate papers) are arranged alphabetically by name, by county. Needless to say there are a lot more people who died without wills than who died with them. To overlook intestate files is a big mistake. Even if someone died with a will, more information can usually be found in an estate file, especially in cases where the testator names "my wife" or "all my children". <<For some reason, Granville chose not to cooperate and send their records to Raleigh--at least as of the printing of the book.>> I hadn't noticed that, but they are now a part of the statewide collection in Raleigh. And yes, the state archives has an excellent collection of records. QUESTION: Original Marriage bonds. Where are these? Are they still kept at the counties? The archives has various transcripts of marriages, but I've never really asked if they also have the originals. Does anyone know? Craig

Can anyone give me the 1850 census data, Isle of Wight County, page 124, Eastern District, for CHARLOTTE MOODY? I believe she was Charlotte Verell/Verrell before she married. Thank you in advance for any help you can possibly give me. Barbara Scott Wyche robertw@att.net Researching VERELL, MOORE, JONES, NEWSOM, SPAIN in South Eastern Virginia

There is a very thorough index of all NC wills called "North Carolina Wills: A Testator Index, 1665-1900" by Thornton W. Mitchell (Genealogical Publishing Co.). If you request a will, the NC archives staff will check this index first. If there is no will listed, they will send you the estate papers. The Archives has all of the important early NC county records, either as originals and/or on microfilm. It is usually unnecessary to contact or visit county courthouses for genealogical research. The Archives website is at: http://www.ah.dcr.state.nc.us The above book also notes the originals still stored in the counties. For some reason, Granville chose not to cooperate and send their records to Raleigh--at least as of the printing of the book.

Hello, could you all possibly be referring to the 5 sons of James Jones Jr s/o James Jones who left a 1719 Prince George Co Va will ? He had 4 daughters & one son James II . James Jr had 5 sons... 1) James III (m Sarah d/o Howell Edmunds) and lived in Surry Co 2) Robert Jones Sr b 1694 , Burgess from Surry 1752-1755; m Elizabeth (?) 3) David m Susannah (?) and had 10 children (5 of them sons) 4) John d Surry in 1743 5) Richard Robert Jones Jr ( 1718-1766) s/o Robert Sr (1694-1775) of Sussex Co married Sarah d/o Robert Cobbs & Elizabeth Allen of York Co Va. He removed to Northampton Co NC after1750 and became the Attorney General of North Carolina. Source : John Bennett Boddie "Virginia Historical Genealogies " If this is the Jones line you're referring to, I would like to know about your findings too as this is my line. malinda jones Ron Jones wrote: > Hi Craig, > > <<Would you be interested in posting the Granville Co., NC will of Ambrose > Jones (brother of the Robert who d. in 1771 and the John Jones Sr. who d. > 1791/92)? I have a full transcript of both his will and an abstract of his > estate file that I made. I realize it is not Mecklenburg County but then it > is very difficult to seperate the research of the two counties.>> > > I have not seen the Ambrose's will myself, only the abstract. I have not > seen the estate file. I would definitely be interested in posting them. You > are quite right that the two counties must be researched together. These > JONES families and many of their allieds lived all along both sides of > Aaron's Creek in the SW corner of Mecklenburg (eastern Halifax) and the NW > corner of Granville. > > <<Also, I am told that there were brothers John, James, Robert, Richard and > Ambrose Jones, all sons of an elusive Robert Jones supposedly born in 1690. > Do you know if this true? >> > > I agree, very elusive! I have seen the excerpt you cited, but no one seems > to know where the evidence is. This is the proverbial "giant leap of faith." > Francis Toepfer is a name many cite as an expert and I finally tracked him > down this past year. He cites this same excerpt. > > I do not accept anything past the 5 brothers. As you know, these brothers > are proved by Robert's will. There were two Robert JONES, Jr.s with land > transactions in Granville Co. in 1748; one of Granville and the other an > attorney of Surry Co., VA. There are some transactions of Robert without > the Jr., but I suspect these are the same person with the "Jr." omitted. I > have not looked at the originals. I am not sure that either is the Robert > who d. 1771. The latter bought land in Granville in 1752 and it states he > was "of St. Mary's Parish Caroline Co., VA." He was not listed as a Jr., but > I suspect these deeds are where that conclusion was drawn from. This 1752 > deed is the earliest record in the area that I feel sure is tied to the 5 > brothers. If you want this abstract, I will be glad to send it. By the way, > Catherine COLLINS, wife of Ambrose JONES, Sr. was also said to be of > Caroline Co., VA. (d/o James) > > Thanks, Ron > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > USGenWeb Archives Digital Maps Project > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/maps/ > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp

I have heard that the DeJarnette Tavern near Stovall, Halifax Co. VA is offered for sale. Can anyone on this list confirm this information? Thank you, Julia

In a message dated 5/10/01 8:00:02 PM, gronj@home.com writes: << I do not accept anything past the 5 brothers. As you know, these brothers are proved by Robert's will. There were two Robert JONES, Jr.s with land transactions in Granville Co. in 1748; one of Granville and the other an attorney of Surry Co., VA. There are some transactions of Robert without the Jr., but I suspect these are the same person with the "Jr." omitted. I have not looked at the originals. I am not sure that either is the Robert who d. 1771. The latter bought land in Granville in 1752 and it states he was "of St. Mary's Parish Caroline Co., VA." He was not listed as a Jr., but I suspect these deeds are where that conclusion was drawn from. This 1752 deed is the earliest record in the area that I feel sure is tied to the 5 brothers. If you want this abstract, I will be glad to send it. By the way, Catherine COLLINS, wife of Ambrose JONES, Sr. was also said to be of Caroline Co., VA. (d/o James) First, Robert Jones of Surry County, VA. I found his will and he is NOT related directly to these Jones brothers. He was an attorney and did not name any of these Jones in his will. Most of the land records for Granville Co. are for this Robert Jones (as both Robert Jones and Robert Jones, Jr., it appears, I haven't really sorted it all out--he did not own any land on Aaron's Creek). If I am to believe my notes, his will was proved in Northampton Co., NC in 1766, and states he was of Surry Co., VA, attorney. Why it was proved in Northampton Co NC I don't recall. Perhaps he had moved there. The will is in Raliegh, state archives, Microfilm No. C.071.80001, WB 1, p. 135. Second, Catherine the wife of Ambrose Jones, Sr. is said to be Catherine Collins based on the deed from her children selling slave to a sibling that was bequeathed to them by the will of James Collins of Caroline County. That does not prove he was Caroline's father nor that Catherine came from Caroline County. It simply implies it. Unfortunately the records of Caroline are mostly destroyed. The deed abstract is as follows: "2 April 1782, Granville Co., NC Deed Book 1, p. 327-328. For 100 pounds paid by James Winfrey and the children begotten of his wife, Elizabeth Winfrey (i.e., daughter of Ambrone Jones and wife Catherine), deed all their right in a negro woman named Milly, which is their right by will of James Collins, deceased of Caroline Co.,VA. Signed by Ambrose Jones, James Jones, Stephen Jones, Reuben Jones, Gabriel Jones, Robert Sandford and wife ANN, Benjamin Hawkins and wife PHEBE [NB: Phebe was the wife of Thomas Gregory by 1783], Peggy Jones of Granville AND CASWELL counties, NC. Witnessed by Charles Wade, Joseph Blanks, James Jones, George Moore, William Loftis, John Loftis, Robert Sandford and Benjamin Hawkins." Craig

In a message dated 5/10/01 7:21:42 PM, cara@dcdesign.com writes: << << the will is recorded in Mecklenburg County, VA Will Book 3, p. 85 of the Circuit Clerk's office. However, they don't make copies from the will books. Alternativley, the original will MAY be [and probably is] on file at the North Carolina State Archives in Raleigh NC. >> I am curious about this statement. My first querie is why would a Mecklenburg will be recorded in Granville, NC. >> My mistake. Of course Virginia wills are not usually recorded in North Carolina except under certain circumstances where disputes arose over possessions in North Carolina. You CAN get copies of wills recorded in Mecklenburg County, VA. It is Granville Co., NC that will NOT make copies for you from the will book, but most of the original wills in NC are on file at Raleigh (and originals are always better sources than recorded copies, though sometimes the recorded copy can clarify bad handwriting and shaky signatures). In VIRGINIA, few original wills are extant unless you find them in a chancery court file, (some of which are at Richmond, some still at the courthouses, many gone forever.) That being said those doing research in Mecklenburg Co., VA or Granville Co., NC are well advised to search records in the other county. Again, I apologize for my mistake. Craig Kilby

Hi all. I am searching for the parents and ancestors of my fifth great grandfather Joseph Irby b. 1728 somewhere in Virginia. He married a woman named Frances...possibly Frances Carter. I've seen where her first name might be Mary. Their children were William, Joseph, Henry, Carter, Moses, and Elizabeth. Some researchers believe Joseph's father might be Joshua Irby Jr., son of Dr. Joshua Irby of Prince George County. I do respect the research that has been done on this connection, but I am not convinced it's the right connection. Does anyone have information on William Irby, the first sheriff of Halifax County, Virginia? I do know that when he died, he did not leave a will, but had six tithes during his life, and his wife's name was Prudence Harrison when he died. It is said that he is also the son of Dr. Joshua Irby and Elizabeth Ludson. Dr. Joshua was the son of Dr. William Irby who first appeared in the Charles City County area in the 1660s. Many thanks, Linda

I'm interested in your John Griffin and Martha Jones (dates and names of children ) Thanks, Marietta Ron Jones wrote: > > In a message dated 05/04/2001 9:16:22 PM Central Daylight Time, > > CASHKILBY@aol.com writes: > > > > Compare this will to the will of John Jones, Sr., dated twenty years > > > later, 27 SEP 1791, proved 9 JAN 1792 in Mecklenburg Co., VA > > > (Will Book 3, p. 85, abstract by Gwynn): > > > Where would this will be archived, and could someone give me the > > address from which it could be ordered? > > Hi Joyce, > > The transcribed will of John JONES, Sr. as well as that of Benjamin JONES, > Sr., his son, can be found at the Mecklenburg GenWeb page. > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vameckle/wills2.htm > > > I believe the Sarah Griffin mentioned is my gggg-grandmother, > > daughter of John Griffin and Martha Jones. > > Sarah GRIFFIN, the granddaughter mentioned in this will, was the dau. of > Francis GRIFFIN and Philadelphia JONES, dau. of John Sr.. Francis was her > 1st husband who d. 1765; Philadelphia then m. Robert YANCEY. She had 3 > children by 1st m. and 11 by 2nd. I have no other info on Sarah GRIFFIN. > > I just recently was able to come up with a good transcription of the will of > Robert JONES who d. in Mecklenburg Co. in 1771. The copy was poor and > several people have worked on this. I will send this to the Mecklenburg site > soon. > > Best wishes, Ron Jones > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > USGenWeb Archives Digital Maps Project > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/maps/ > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp

Hi Craig, <<Would you be interested in posting the Granville Co., NC will of Ambrose Jones (brother of the Robert who d. in 1771 and the John Jones Sr. who d. 1791/92)? I have a full transcript of both his will and an abstract of his estate file that I made. I realize it is not Mecklenburg County but then it is very difficult to seperate the research of the two counties.>> I have not seen the Ambrose's will myself, only the abstract. I have not seen the estate file. I would definitely be interested in posting them. You are quite right that the two counties must be researched together. These JONES families and many of their allieds lived all along both sides of Aaron's Creek in the SW corner of Mecklenburg (eastern Halifax) and the NW corner of Granville. <<Also, I am told that there were brothers John, James, Robert, Richard and Ambrose Jones, all sons of an elusive Robert Jones supposedly born in 1690. Do you know if this true? >> I agree, very elusive! I have seen the excerpt you cited, but no one seems to know where the evidence is. This is the proverbial "giant leap of faith." Francis Toepfer is a name many cite as an expert and I finally tracked him down this past year. He cites this same excerpt. I do not accept anything past the 5 brothers. As you know, these brothers are proved by Robert's will. There were two Robert JONES, Jr.s with land transactions in Granville Co. in 1748; one of Granville and the other an attorney of Surry Co., VA. There are some transactions of Robert without the Jr., but I suspect these are the same person with the "Jr." omitted. I have not looked at the originals. I am not sure that either is the Robert who d. 1771. The latter bought land in Granville in 1752 and it states he was "of St. Mary's Parish Caroline Co., VA." He was not listed as a Jr., but I suspect these deeds are where that conclusion was drawn from. This 1752 deed is the earliest record in the area that I feel sure is tied to the 5 brothers. If you want this abstract, I will be glad to send it. By the way, Catherine COLLINS, wife of Ambrose JONES, Sr. was also said to be of Caroline Co., VA. (d/o James) Thanks, Ron